Anyone see the Scheifele on Evans hit in the Jets - Canadiens game. Brutal hit.

[Greg S]

 

[SinceThe70s]

Brutal hit for sure. But I don't see a problem with it.

[4_kidd_4]

14 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

Brutal hit for sure. But I don't see a problem with it.

 

It’s the rule book definition of charging. To the letter.

[SinceThe70s]

3 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

It’s the rule book definition of charging. To the letter.

 

I guess where I was coming from is I didn't consider it a deliberate attempt to injure.

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I guess where I was coming from is I didn't consider it a deliberate attempt to injure.

 

4 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

It’s the rule book definition of charging. To the letter.

 

I am, admittedly, not a hockey fan/watcher.  But the guy who did the hitting launched himself to the point of both feet leaving the ice.

 

Is that what made it illegal?

 

And to me, that absolutely tells me it was a deliberate attempt to injure.

[4_kidd_4]

17 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

I am, admittedly, not a hockey fan/watcher.  But the guy who did the hitting launched himself to the point of both feet leaving the ice.

 

Is that what made it illegal?

 

And to me, that absolutely tells me it was a deliberate attempt to injure.

 

What makes it illegal and deliberate is skating full speed 3/4 the length of the ice to hit someone without slowing down.

 

 I believe anything more than two strides before a check is kinda the rule of thumb.

 

It was a scumbag play, and that’s not even taking into consideration that he went high on the hit.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

What makes it illegal and deliberate is skating full speed 3/4 the length of the ice to hit someone without slowing down.

 

 I believe anything more than two strides before a check is kinda the rule of thumb.

 

It was a scumbag play, and that’s not even taking into consideration that he went high on the hit.

 

With all of the pads/gear, Evans' body weight must be up there.  He practically did an entire flip because of the force of the hit.  I don't know how anyone could applaud something like that.

[PastaJoe]

Good hit, didn’t stride but glided from the top of the slot, led with shoulder, didn’t leave his feet until after impact caused both players to, and Evans leaned down at last second too late for Scheifele to stop. But he’ll be judged on the result.

[4_kidd_4]

3 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

Good hit, didn’t stride but glided from the top of the slot, led with shoulder, didn’t leave his feet until after impact caused both players to, and Evans leaned down at last second too late for Scheifele to stop. But he’ll be judged on the result.

 

“Glided” with a full head of steam from sprinting before opposite blue line to the slot.

 

This is the kind of play the NHL wants out of the game, especially with the relative recent emphasis on concussions. But then they’ll contradict the whole narrative by still allowing fighting. So...

 

I wish they would go to European size ice. Open it up and watch headshots and fighting naturally work their way out of the sport. These guys are faster and stronger than they were even 20 years ago, give them more room to work with.

[PastaJoe]

Gliding, as in didn’t take strides to run him for the last 12 feet. I’ve coached and play, when you are going full speed to backcheck you can’t stop on a dime. And owners will never give up the expensive seats by the ice to make room for Olympic size ice.

[billsfanmiamioh]

1 minute ago, PastaJoe said:

Gliding, as in didn’t take strides to run him for the last 12 feet. I’ve coached and play, when you are going full speed to backcheck you can’t stop on a dime. And owners will never give up the expensive seats by the ice to make room for Olympic size ice.

I’ve played since I was 4 and say it’s a dirty play. The fact that he “let up” for a couple strides at the end doesn’t change the fact that he came across the whole ice to head hunt him. Certainly could have done a lot different if he was really trying to stop the potential goal.
 

It’s one of those plays that you can expect to get payback for. And let’s not forget, a penalty was called and he was ejected from the game. 

[PastaJoe]

30 minutes ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

I’ve played since I was 4 and say it’s a dirty play. The fact that he “let up” for a couple strides at the end doesn’t change the fact that he came across the whole ice to head hunt him. Certainly could have done a lot different if he was really trying to stop the potential goal.
 

It’s one of those plays that you can expect to get payback for. And let’s not forget, a penalty was called and he was ejected from the game. 

The refs reacted to the result. If he got up ok they maybe would call two minutes if anything. I agree with the Jets coach who said it was a heavy hit, but his feet were on the ice and his arms were tucked in.

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, PastaJoe said:

The refs reacted to the result. If he got up ok they maybe would call two minutes if anything. I agree with the Jets coach who said it was a heavy hit, but his feet were on the ice and his arms were tucked in.

The result is the point... lol

 

Players headhunt for a specific type of result and we just witnessed it. Whether they're successful or not is irrelevant.

[Process]

5 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I guess where I was coming from is I didn't consider it a deliberate attempt to injure.

What the heck did you watch? That hit, in that situation, was clearly done with the intention of knocking him the **** out. 

[Simon]

I happened to be watching it live and had a tough time deciding if it was really dirty or not. There's some additional context here that nobody is mentioning and that is that the reason Scheifele was driving that hard was because it was the only way he was going to get there in time to prevent the goal that ended the game. I'm not sure I'm convinced he was headhunting, he was just trying to get back as fast as he possibly could to get to Evans before he tucked in the deciding goal.

The only thing I thought was dirty about it was that he got that chicken wing up there and followed through with it. If he had kept that arm tucked in it would have just been him digging hard to get back and catching Evans in a vulnerable position while he was trying to save the game.

[billsfanmiamioh]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

I happened to be watching it live and had a tough time deciding if it was really dirty or not. There's some additional context here that nobody is mentioning and that is that the reason Scheifele was driving that hard was because it was the only way he was going to get there in time to prevent the goal that ended the game. I'm not sure I'm convinced he was headhunting, he was just trying to get back as fast as he possibly could to get to Evans before he tucked in the deciding goal.

The only thing I thought was dirty about it was that he got that chicken wing up there and followed through with it. If he had kept that arm tucked in it would have just been him digging hard to get back and catching Evans in a vulnerable position while he was trying to save the game.

If he was only trying to stop the goal he poke checks or dives to block the net. He was trying to wreck him. 

[Simon]

Just now, billsfanmiamioh said:

If he was only trying to stop the goal he poke checks or dives to block the net. He was trying to wreck him. 

He's not going to dive into the endboards at that speed but a poke check might have been possible. But if he misses the poke, it's game over.

He was definitely looking to bury him but I thought it was more to prevent the goal than an intent to injure.

Although seeing the replay now and watching that arm follow through high makes it look a lot dirtier than it did in real time.

[SinceThe70s]

18 minutes ago, Process said:

What the heck did you watch? That hit, in that situation, was clearly done with the intention of knocking him the **** out. 

 

I thought the intent was to stop the game-sealing goal. I don't know anything about Scheifele - does he have a rep as a dirty player?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

There is really little doubt that it was a penalty, and likely suspension. As a former hockey player, this was a penalty even back in the day. You don't get to build up a head of steam for 180' and launch into the man. Not even a discussion and the league will suspend him (hearing scheduled).

 

Also, hard to make the argument he was trying to prevent a goal, never even looked at where puck was and deflecting it was the only chance he had to prevent a goal. I think he was pissed and lost it for a moment. He looked as surprised and guilty  as anyone after the play.

Edited June 3, 2021 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[shrader]

3 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I thought the intent was to stop the game-sealing goal. I don't know anything about Scheifele - does he have a rep as a dirty player?

 

The intent is going to matter all that much.  When you trip or hook a guy on a breakaway, your intent is to prevent a goal, but it's still a penalty.  This one is going to draw a suspension.  Every video they release about a suspension always starts out with exactly what rule was broken and how it was broken, then followed up with the so called damage report.  This one checks every box on that list.

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I thought the intent was to stop the game-sealing goal. I don't know anything about Scheifele - does he have a rep as a dirty player?

 

He seems like kind of an ass but he only averages like 20 PiMs a year so I doubt if he has much of a rep as a dirtbag.

[Orlando Tim]

I don't understand how it could be argued a clean hit, it was high, and he left his feet. The intent was to clean his clock and that hit has been outlawed. If intent was to save goal he dives to block shot, the hit was a message. Old school fans might have liked it but league has been getting rid of that for years.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

He seems like kind of an ass but he only averages like 20 PiMs a year so I doubt if he has much of a rep as a dirtbag.

He doesn't have a bad rep, as a matter of fact he's the Jets best player. He made a poor decision.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't understand how it could be argued a clean hit, it was high, and he left his feet. The intent was to clean his clock and that hit has been outlawed. If intent was to save goal he dives to block shot, the hit was a message. Old school fans might have liked it but league has been getting rid of that for years.

If he tries to dive at that speed he's going to break his neck on the dasher. A diving play was not an option.

[billsfanmiamioh]

16 minutes ago, Simon said:

If he tries to dive at that speed he's going to break his neck on the dasher. A diving play was not an option.

You would slow down / stop and try and get down. When you’re trying to stop an EN goal, you’re playing goalie without pads. In about 34 years of playing hockey I can’t ever remember trying to prevent an empty netter by throwing a body check at the guy trying to score. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

You would slow down / stop and try and get down. When you’re trying to stop an EN goal, you’re playing goalie without pads. In about 34 years of playing hockey I can’t ever remember trying to prevent an empty netter by throwing a body check at the guy trying to score. 

If he slows down he's not going to get there and he knows it; the timing on the whole play couldn't possibly have been any worse.

I don't think it was dirty because he checked him at high speed. But I do think following through with that chicken wing ended up making it dirty.

[LeGOATski]

If you're watching the Bruins/Islanders game Coyle just did the exact same thing. Just in a more "normal" situation.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

The result is the point... lol

 

Players headhunt for a specific type of result and we just witnessed it. Whether they're successful or not is irrelevant.

I don't go rollerblading in the middle of the road either and then complain when I get hit by a car.  He wrapped around,  that's like playing in the middle of the road.  Evans took the upper hand in the scoring chance,  but not the hit. 

 

Clean, heavy hit is the result.  Should Scheifele just quit on the play?  Give up? He can't stop on the dime. 

 

This is like two jousting on horseback, Scheifele stayed mounted on his horse.  Evans scored, but almost got killed doing it. 

[Process]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I thought the intent was to stop the game-sealing goal. I don't know anything about Scheifele - does he have a rep as a dirty player?

Don't know anything about him but stopping the goal clearly was not on his mind at all. If it was he would have stuck his stick out and tried to make a play at the puck. Launching your body at someone and knocking them out after the puck is in the net is not how you stop a goal. 

[billsfanmiamioh]

4 game suspension. Guess the league felt it was dirty too. 

[PastaJoe]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

The result is the point... lol

 

Players headhunt for a specific type of result and we just witnessed it. Whether they're successful or not is irrelevant.

It wasn’t headhunting, it was a heavy check. Evans leaned down at the last second which made it worse for him. If he wasn’t leaning and gets up from the check, the refs would have called it different.

 

2 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

You would slow down / stop and try and get down. When you’re trying to stop an EN goal, you’re playing goalie without pads. In about 34 years of playing hockey I can’t ever remember trying to prevent an empty netter by throwing a body check at the guy trying to score. 

Most times players are skating towards the empty net. In this case he was coming from behind and the check was to try to prevent the wraparound.

Edited June 4, 2021 by PastaJoe

[PastaJoe]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't understand how it could be argued a clean hit, it was high, and he left his feet. The intent was to clean his clock and that hit has been outlawed. If intent was to save goal he dives to block shot, the hit was a message. Old school fans might have liked it but league has been getting rid of that for years.

He didn’t leave his feet, both of their feet went up after the check. And it only looked high because Evans leaned down at the last second when it was too late to stop. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

9 hours ago, PastaJoe said:

He didn’t leave his feet, both of their feet went up after the check. And it only looked high because Evans leaned down at the last second when it was too late to stop. 

Yeah.  What's he gonna do?  Brace for impact is all he can do.  Scheifele did a better job.  Again, like two in jousting match. Don't play in the middle of the road, you won't get hit by a car. Scheifele has just as much right to be there... What's he supposed to do? Turtle up? That's when a player gets hurt. Evans was going for the net, Scheifele, going for, the player with the puck. 

 

***** happens.  If You're the puck carrier, brace for impact or don't dangle.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois

[Mike in Horseheads]

Bryce Davidson

@MuskokaCoach18

Replying to

@kfraserthecall

Honest question- how come when Tkachuk lit up Kassian twice coming around the net a yr ago the league said the onus was on Kassian to be aware not Tkachuk? What makes this different?

[ExiledInIllinois]

9 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Bryce Davidson

@MuskokaCoach18

Replying to

@kfraserthecall

Honest question- how come when Tkachuk lit up Kassian twice coming around the net a yr ago the league said the onus was on Kassian to be aware not Tkachuk? What makes this different?

Alex, what is Evans is a Montreal Canadien player in the playoffs and the League sux?

Edited June 4, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois

[4_kidd_4]

This was neither a “joust” nor a “dangle”. 

 

I love the Don Cherry Rock-Em Sock-em 80’s/90’s style as much as any other old-school fan but that isn’t what the league is anymore. The onus has been on the defender/hitter for a long time now and it’s his responsibility to keep it clean. 

 

“Shoulda had his head up” is no longer a valid excuse.

 

One point I can agree with in here is the inconsistency of the NHL with how they enforce/punish such plays. I think they got this one correct.

[May Day 10]

It was reckless and one of the most egregious charging violations I can remember.

 

With that said, I don't believe it was premeditated, malicious, or done in frustration.  He didn't skate the whole way planning to knock evans' head off his shoulders.

 

Watching the play at full speed, I feel schiefiele was racing down to get the puck, prevent a goal, gain possession in a 1 goal playoff game that entered the final minute.  Late in the play he had realized he was late and in a split second reflec/decision, went for the body to try to head off the potential goal, not really taking into account his speed or how violent the head on collision would be

Edited June 4, 2021 by May Day 10

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

This was neither a “joust” nor a “dangle”. 

 

I love the Don Cherry Rock-Em Sock-em 80’s/90’s style as much as any other old-school fan but that isn’t what the league is anymore. The onus has been on the defender/hitter for a long time now and it’s his responsibility to keep it clean. 

 

“Shoulda had his head up” is no longer a valid excuse.

 

One point I can agree with in here is the inconsistency of the NHL with how they enforce/punish such plays. I think they got this one correct.

Yeah it was.  A wrap-around is a dangle. He got cute and ran into a Mack truck playing in the middle of the road.

 

By definition it is a dangle:

 

Dangle: when a player is a deke (or decoy) by making moves to fake out the goalie or opposing player; also used to describe the act of stick-handling.

 

Definitely a wrap-around is a fake or a deke. 

 

What planet you on?

 

deke
/dēk/
Learn to pronounce
ICE HOCKEY
noun
a deceptive movement or feint that induces an opponent to move out of position.
verb
draw (a player) out of position by performing a deke.
"four minutes into the third period, Hull scored his 70th goal of the season, deking a Flyer defenseman to the ice"

[Beerball]

14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yeah it was.  A wrap-around is a dangle. He got cute and ran into a Mack truck playing in the middle of the road.

 

By definition it is a dangle:

 

Dangle: when a player is a deke (or decoy) by making moves to fake out the goalie or opposing player; also used to describe the act of stick-handling.

 

Definitely a wrap-around is a fake or a deke. 

 

What planet you on?

 

deke
/dēk/
Learn to pronounce
ICE HOCKEY
noun
a deceptive movement or feint that induces an opponent to move out of position.
verb
draw (a player) out of position by performing a deke.
"four minutes into the third period, Hull scored his 70th goal of the season, deking a Flyer defenseman to the ice"

you simply must argue, mustn't you?  There was nothing "cute" about that play.

[4_kidd_4]

Who exactly was he deking all alone back there??

 

I would agree the intent is debatable. It’s two guys making separate hustle plays. One was legit and the other was charging.