Malazan Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:37 PM, MrSarcasm said: Leonard Fournettw made the Pro Bowl 3 years ago. Past 8 Super Bowl RBs Shane Vereen C.J. Anderson Dion Lewis LeGarette Blount Sony Michel Damien Williams Leonard Fournette Expand Is this...sarcasm?
MrSarcasm Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:39 PM, jeremy2020 said: Is this...sarcasm? Expand No 1
Doc Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:37 PM, MrSarcasm said: Leonard Fournettw made the Pro Bowl 3 years ago. Past 8 Super Bowl RBs Shane Vereen C.J. Anderson Dion Lewis LeGarette Blount Sony Michel Damien Williams Leonard Fournette Expand Out of that list, only Anderson and Fournette were Pro Bowlers, just once in their careers. And neither won a SB the year they made the Pro Bowl.
MrSarcasm Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:45 PM, Doc said: Out of that list, only Anderson and Fournette were Pro Bowlers, just once in their careers. And neither won a SB the year they made the Pro Bowl. Expand Well either way it doesn't matter. They were excellent RBs and had great carrers, but that is to be expected when you get selected in the first two rounds.
Doc Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:47 PM, MrSarcasm said: Well either way it doesn't matter. They were excellent RBs and had great carrers, but that is to be expected when you get selected in the first two rounds. Expand Only Fournette, Michel and Vereen were 1st or 2nd rounders. And in fact, 4 of them were UDFAs.
WideNine Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:37 PM, FFadpecr said: O-Linemen who are better at run-blocking, tend to be worse at pass-blocking. And vice versa. Center Mitch Morse is the perfect example. Great pass-blocker, lousy run-blocker. If you try to upgrade the Interior OL's run-blocking, you risk downgrading the pass-blocking. And that's the tricky part. It's not as simple as everyone thinks: "Just improve the run-blocking!" Right, but how can you also ensure that the Pass-blocking stays the same? In a Passing Offense, you never sacrifice Pass-blocking for Run-blocking. Expand It may seem that way, but I am not sure if that is the entire analysis. With Morse he is not a mauler able to power-block and move anchored NTs on the interior but he excels at pin & pull blocking and zone blocking outside where he can out-position DL players on the move to gain leverage. So it is less about his run blocking and more about the type of blocking they want him to do. Mostly I think it comes down to offensive philosophy and the kind of talent you have on your o-line. If you have a lot of mobile offensive linemen who can block on the move you can go with more zone and pin & pull run blocking. If you don't, or if you are determined to run between the tackles, you have to have centers and guards who can move big athletic D-linemen off their spot. I have seen linemen that are good at both run-blocking and pass-pro - Dawkins on our own squad is not too shabby at both. Morse is an above average center, but I have seen him get fork-lifted back into the pocket on more than a few occasions. So the critique on him has just been how stout he is against the bigger, more physical NTs both in pass-pro and run-blocking (and the concerns with his concussions). He was benched for a game (whatever semantics McD put on it later), but after his return to the field I thought he played pretty sound football down the stretch - I thought Mongo had more issues nailing his blocks. I like both players, but they are positions that the Bills have to consider upgrading after the way KC snuffed out our run game and destroyed our pocket with just their front 4. I think we are going to need more out of those positions to take the next step. 1
Brennan Huff Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 I really believe that we were a pass oriented offense by design. When you got 3 stud WRs, you gotta get them targets. I think if they wanted to run the ball more they could have...
Comebackkid Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:37 PM, FFadpecr said: O-Linemen who are better at run-blocking, tend to be worse at pass-blocking. And vice versa. Center Mitch Morse is the perfect example. Great pass-blocker, lousy run-blocker. If you try to upgrade the Interior OL's run-blocking, you risk downgrading the pass-blocking. And that's the tricky part. It's not as simple as everyone thinks: "Just improve the run-blocking!" Right, but how can you also ensure that the Pass-blocking stays the same? In a Passing Offense, you never sacrifice Pass-blocking for Run-blocking. Expand My point still stands though it is as much the o-line as it is the running backs or more
Pokebball Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 9:35 PM, Doc said: Who was the last team to win a SB with a Pro Bowl RB? Expand Maybe the Broncos with Terrell Davis 1
DCofNC Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 I think we need to shift our strategy to our talent if we aren’t going to change the pieces. This O line needs to move to a zone blocking technique if we are going to really run the ball. That said, the real answer may just be to commit to actually running the ball, not just when you think you can catch them off guard, like 3rd and 16.
H2o Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) Our top 2 RB's averaged 4.4 and 4.3 yards respectively. They combined for a little over 1,100 yards. We really just didn't run the ball that much tbh. They unleashed Josh this year. You can still tell that the group is missing that homerun hitter though. Maybe that's Breida or maybe it's someone they draft? Who knows. Either way, it wouldn't hurt us to have a RB the defense actually has to account for on every down. It would open things up even more for the rest of the offense. Edited April 20, 2021 by H2o 1 1
Don Otreply Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 This guy is in the running for the village idiot award... 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 8:37 PM, MrSarcasm said: And.... Most teams utilize multiple RBs whether by design or because of injuries. Based on past SB winners it appears as if RB can be more of a plug position. I mean the Pats are a good example of this. This isn't 1960 anymore. Expand NE is a great example----all you have to do to replicate their unique and never matched success is....... draft Tom Brady! Speaking of SB winners, Tampa ran for 145 yards in the SB, and ran more than they attempted passes. Look, we all know it's not 1960, but to say that RB is the least important position on an NFL team is, on its face, just ridiculous hyperbole.
MrSarcasm Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 10:37 PM, Mr. WEO said: NE is a great example----all you have to do to replicate their unique and never matched success is....... draft Tom Brady! Speaking of SB winners, Tampa ran for 145 yards in the SB, and ran more than they attempted passes. Look, we all know it's not 1960, but to say that RB is the least important position on an NFL team is, on its face, just ridiculous hyperbole. Expand Yes Tampa did it with a FA. Funny you use Tampa with Brady as a reference then rebuke me for citing the Pats with Brady...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 10:12 PM, WideNine said: It may seem that way, but I am not sure if that is the entire analysis. With Morse he is not a mauler able to power-block and move anchored NTs on the interior but he excels at pin & pull blocking and zone blocking outside where he can out-position DL players on the move to gain leverage. So it is less about his run blocking and more about the type of blocking they want him to do. Mostly I think it comes down to offensive philosophy and the kind of talent you have on your o-line. If you have a lot of mobile offensive linemen who can block on the move you can go with more zone and pin & pull run blocking. If you don't, or if you are determined to run between the tackles, you have to have centers and guards who can move big athletic D-linemen off their spot. I have seen linemen that are good at both run-blocking and pass-pro - Dawkins on our own squad is not too shabby at both. Morse is an above average center, but I have seen him get fork-lifted back into the pocket on more than a few occasions. So the critique on him has just been how stout he is against the bigger, more physical NTs both in pass-pro and run-blocking (and the concerns with his concussions). He was benched for a game (whatever semantics McD put on it later), but after his return to the field I thought he played pretty sound football down the stretch - I thought Mongo had more issues nailing his blocks. I like both players, but they are positions that the Bills have to consider upgrading after the way KC snuffed out our run game and destroyed our pocket with just their front 4. I think we are going to need more out of those positions to take the next step. Expand Feliciano was still playing mostly 1-armed. No way that he was 100% or close after tearing his pec. It takes more than 8-12 weeks to have surgery to fix a torn pec and get your strength back. I think that we, as fans, really underestimate how long it takes to get back to even close to 100% from significant injuries.
DCOrange Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) On 4/20/2021 at 10:37 PM, Mr. WEO said: NE is a great example----all you have to do to replicate their unique and never matched success is....... draft Tom Brady! Speaking of SB winners, Tampa ran for 145 yards in the SB, and ran more than they attempted passes. Look, we all know it's not 1960, but to say that RB is the least important position on an NFL team is, on its face, just ridiculous hyperbole. Expand Tampa's RBs last year were a disappointing 2nd round RB that can't catch, a disappointing 1st round RB that Jacksonville cut, and a disappointing 3rd round rookie. Buffalo's running game was also better than Tampa's last year. Edit: Not saying RB is the least important position in football, just pointing out Tampa isn't a good example as they struggled to run the ball all year. Edited April 20, 2021 by DCOrange
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 10:39 PM, MrSarcasm said: Yes Tampa did it with a FA. Funny you use Tampa with Brady as a reference then rebuke me for citing the Pats with Brady... Expand Derrick Henry was a FA, before he was extended by the Titans. He was of course, the least important guy on that team,. Why doesn't every team just get a Tom Brady, right? What's keeping every team from copying this plan?? Rebuke? You might want to look that word up. On 4/20/2021 at 10:45 PM, DCOrange said: Tampa's RBs last year were a disappointing 2nd round RB that can't catch, a disappointing 1st round RB that Jacksonville cut, and a disappointing 3rd round rookie. Buffalo's running game was also better than Tampa's last year. Expand Not in a meaningful way.
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 10:45 PM, DCOrange said: Tampa's RBs last year were a disappointing 2nd round RB that can't catch, a disappointing 1st round RB that Jacksonville cut, and a disappointing 3rd round rookie. Buffalo's running game was also better than Tampa's last year. Edit: Not saying RB is the least important position in football, just pointing out Tampa isn't a good example as they struggled to run the ball all year. Expand Yet they leaned on the RB position to help them keep KC off the field
WideNine Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 10:41 PM, OldTimer1960 said: Feliciano was still playing mostly 1-armed. No way that he was 100% or close after tearing his pec. It takes more than 8-12 weeks to have surgery to fix a torn pec and get your strength back. I think that we, as fans, really underestimate how long it takes to get back to even close to 100% from significant injuries. Expand Thanks for the info... I thought the book on Mongo was his run blocking was solid if not spectacular and he was a finisher, but he seemed off balance and was lunging a lot down the stretch. The drop in play would make more sense if he was playing through an injury. I do like him as a depth guy that can be serviceable and cover a lot of positions in a pinch and he clearly wants to be here.
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