Another week, another mass murder

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Suing because a product is unsafe? Happens all the time 

Read and understand the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. 

[B-Man]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

The first step should be to allow citizens the right to sue gun manufacturers,

 

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Suing because a product is unsafe? Happens all the time 

 

 

Inconsistency, thy name is Tiberius.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

You can absolutely sue gun manufacturers 

[Tiberius]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Read and understand the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. 

Ok! Then repeal it! 

 

Let us sue these bastards! 

 

It won't impoverish them, will it? 

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Inconsistency, thy name is Tiberius.

Says he guy who wants police officers to literally be able to murder people on the streets. You really are terrible 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Ok! Then repeal it! 

 

Let us sue these bastards! 

 

It won't impoverish them, will it? 

 

you can absolutely sue gun manufacturers 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

[B-Man]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You can absolutely sue gun manufacturers 

 

Only if the gun had some type of problem, then you can

 

They can't be sued if the product was used unlawfully.

 

but fools like Tibs cannot accept that.

 

As the link that you just added shows........thanks.

Edited April 1, 2021 by B-Man

[Tiberius]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

Only if the had some type of problem, then you can

 

They can't be sued if the product was used unlawfully.

 

but fools like Tibs cannot accept that.

So they can't be sued if they make the perfect tool for murderers to murder more people. 

 

Exactly 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Tiberius said:

So they can't be sued if they make the perfect tool for murderers to murder more people. 

 

Exactly 

Wrong 

 

“, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S.-based manufacturer of consumer productsis held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.”

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

They can't be sued if the product was used unlawfully.

 

Like every other product in the universe. 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So they can't be sued if they make the perfect tool for murderers to murder more people. 

 

Exactly 

 

 

Guns are legal.

 

Protected by the constitution for individual American Citizens.

 

If you "enough is enough" fanatics want to change it.............go ahead.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Guns are legal.

 

Protected by the constitution for individual American Citizens.

 

If you "enough is enough" fanatics want to change it.............go ahead.

Yes, and step one to making sure they are safe consumer products is to allow the manufactures to be sued if they make products that get people murdered. 

27 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Wrong 

 

“, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S.-based manufacturer of consumer productsis held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.”

Like every other product in the universe. 

You make it sound like this law doesn't protect the gun industry. It does. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

29 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

You make it sound like this law doesn't protect the gun industry. It does. 

You make it sound like you can’t sue gun manufacturers. You can. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Just get rid of that law. Let the people, the victims, get their day in court 

There's a lot of grey area here so its not like just getting rid of the law.  So let's say you can sue gun manufacturers. 

 

Okay, so lets say five armed robbers break into my home and threaten my family and I shoot them all dead.  The police investigate, refer the evidence to the prosecutor's office, and they determine it was self-defense and decline to press charges against me.  Under that scenario do you think the families of my "victims" that intended to harm and rob me are entitled to sue either me or the gun manufacturer?  I say Hell no to that..

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

So they can't be sued if they make the perfect tool for murderers to murder more people. 

 

Exactly 

Tibs McVeigh used fertilizer to kill well over a hundred people, should they be liable? 

In the past 5 years dozens of people have intentionally driven over others with their cars, should they be liable? 

In England many people are stabbed with knives, should the knife maker be liable?

[All_Pro_Bills]

The gunman in Orange California has been identified as Aminadab Gaxiola Gonzalez.  Apparently a disgruntled former employee of the firm targeted.  You can bet your last penny many on the left will characterize him as a "white" Hispanic.  If the lefties are one thing they are predictable..

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Tibs McVeigh used fertilizer to kill well over a hundred people, should they be liable? 

In the past 5 years dozens of people have intentionally driven over others with their cars, should they be liable? 

In England many people are stabbed with knives, should the knife maker be liable?

 

I could probably kill someone with a spork.  

13 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The gunman in Orange California has been identified as Aminadab Gaxiola Gonzalez.  Apparently a disgruntled former employee of the firm targeted.  You can bet your last penny many on the left will characterize him as a "white" Hispanic.  If the lefties are one thing they are predictable..

 

Holy crap.  I've live in SoCal for nearly 40 years.  Have worked and known dozens and dozens of Hispanics.  Aminadab Gaziola are two new and unique names

 

BTW what scary military style weapon did he use?  What?  It looks like a handgun?  Well there goes that narrative. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Chef Jim

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I could probably kill someone with a spork.  

 

Holy crap.  I've live in SoCal for nearly 40 years.  Have worked and known dozens and dozens of Hispanics.  Aminadab Gaziola are two new and unique name

 

BTW what scary military style weapon did he use?  What?  It looks like a handgun?  Well there goes that narrative. 

Whats is it going to take to get people to support a Ban on assault sporks ??? 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Whats is it going to take to get people to support a Ban on assault sporks ??? 

 

 

First you have to overcome the powerful N.S.A. which has bought Congress.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Whats is it going to take to get people to support a Ban on assault sporks ??? 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-Tactical-Spork-Spoon-9909/dp/B01FYJ6ICK

 

God I love the internet. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

First you have to overcome the powerful N.S.A. which has bought Congress.

 

 

Somebody has to protect our god given right to protect against uncertainty of which utensil one will need. 

[Orlando Tim]

33 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I could probably kill someone with a spork.  

 

Jim will you stop giving them more things to ban? I like my spork.

[Tiberius]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Tibs McVeigh used fertilizer to kill well over a hundred people, should they be liable? 

In the past 5 years dozens of people have intentionally driven over others with their cars, should they be liable? 

In England many people are stabbed with knives, should the knife maker be liable?

You make a poor argument. 

 

The courts can decide who and what is liable. I doubt any court would decide that about fertilzers. But an assault rifle is designed to kill people. Why is that available to anyone that wants one? 

 

So your argument is a pretty lame one. Heck, I guess you can say we could sell land mines, and when they kill someone, its no ones fault, because, hey lawn mowers and pools kills too. 

 

Just lame 

[Orlando Tim]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

You make a poor argument. 

 

The courts can decide who and what is liable. I doubt any court would decide that about fertilzers. But an assault rifle is designed to kill people. Why is that available to anyone that wants one? 

 

So your argument is a pretty lame one. Heck, I guess you can say we could sell land mines, and when they kill someone, its no ones fault, because, hey lawn mowers and pools kills too. 

 

Just lame 

I don't know why I argue with someone who calls an AR an "assault rifle" or that believes assault rifles are available to anyone who wants one. Your ignorance is appalling for someone who is trying to convince others that they know better. To own an assault rifle you need an FFL which is not like buying a normal gun. I do not think I know anyone with an FFL but I know a lot with legal guns. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't know why I argue with someone who calls an AR an "assault rifle" or that believes assault rifles are available to anyone who wants one. Your ignorance is appalling for someone who is trying to convince others that they know better. To own an assault rifle you need an FFL which is not like buying a normal gun. I do not think I know anyone with an FFL but I know a lot with legal guns. 

Yeah the altleftsheep ‘know’ AR stands for assault rifle.  Probably a poor marketing choice or just unforeseen outcome by ArmaLite but your call out is appropriate. 
 

it’s not their fault. They are low functioning sycophants that can’t see past the rouse they are getting sold. 
 

I tend to pity them more than anything. It’s gotta feel oppressive to literally have your own thoughts predetermined for you by some political agenda. 

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, Tiberius said:

You can sue over glasses of water if you want. You have that right. But not for guns. 

 

Supreme Court rules Newtown families can sue Remington.

 

Quote

The Supreme Court said Tuesday that a survivor and relatives of victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting can pursue their lawsuit against the maker of the rifle used to kill 26 people. The justices rejected an appeal from Remington Arms that argued it should be shielded by a 2005 federal law preventing most lawsuits against firearms manufacturers when their products are used in crimes.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sandy-hook-families-can-sue-gun-maker-remington-arms-supreme-court-rules-today-2019-11-12/

[Niagara Bill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't know why I argue with someone who calls an AR an "assault rifle" or that believes assault rifles are available to anyone who wants one. Your ignorance is appalling for someone who is trying to convince others that they know better. To own an assault rifle you need an FFL which is not like buying a normal gun. I do not think I know anyone with an FFL but I know a lot with legal guns. 

Timmy...you seem to make a living calling others ignorant and stupid. You argue about insignificant details to defend the indefensible. 

Every state has its own laws. Every gun show plays by its own rules. When 4, 8, 23 or 40 people are killed with one of these weapons the issue of whether the gun was legal or not matters little. The people died needlessly. 

The gun lobby has done nothing to assist in the control of the spread of these weapons. The gun lobby and people like you build barriers to the control of these weapons. Many people have no problem with gun ownership. Many people gave no problem with defending your property and loved ones.

But you will never stop these senseless killings until the gun lobby and people like you assist in the control of these weapons and who has access and when they have access. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

53 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Timmy...you seem to make a living calling others ignorant and stupid. You argue about insignificant details to defend the indefensible. 

Every state has its own laws. Every gun show plays by its own rules. When 4, 8, 23 or 40 people are killed with one of these weapons the issue of whether the gun was legal or not matters little. The people died needlessly. 

The gun lobby has done nothing to assist in the control of the spread of these weapons. The gun lobby and people like you build barriers to the control of these weapons. Many people have no problem with gun ownership. Many people gave no problem with defending your property and loved ones.

But you will never stop these senseless killings until the gun lobby and people like you assist in the control of these weapons and who has access and when they have access. 

 

 

So why not lobby on your side of the issue? (I’ll ignore the fact that you can’t because you’re not a US citizen, for sake of the debate.) You want the ‘gun lobby’ to stop lobbying for guns? Excellent! I’d like Planned Parenthood to stop lobbying for abortion funding. We’ll call it a draw.

 

I’ve actually spoken on this topic at a few professional conferences. Your problem should be with the elected officials, not the ‘lobby’.

Edited April 2, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Wacka]

Sue the farmers!

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

Timmy...you seem to make a living calling others ignorant and stupid. You argue about insignificant details to defend the indefensible. 

Every state has its own laws. Every gun show plays by its own rules. When 4, 8, 23 or 40 people are killed with one of these weapons the issue of whether the gun was legal or not matters little. The people died needlessly. 

The gun lobby has done nothing to assist in the control of the spread of these weapons. The gun lobby and people like you build barriers to the control of these weapons. Many people have no problem with gun ownership. Many people gave no problem with defending your property and loved ones.

But you will never stop these senseless killings until the gun lobby and people like you assist in the control of these weapons and who has access and when they have access. 

 

 

You keep saying "these weapons" but then can't define what that means. You want gun control for fully automatic weapons when you already need a special license  to get an automatic weapon. These are not small issues unless your goal is to simply remove all guns. If your goal is to stop crazy people from killing maybe stop focusing on the weapon and focus on how to deal with mental illness in society.

[Chef Jim]

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yeah the altleftsheep ‘know’ AR stands for assault rifle.  Probably a poor marketing choice or just unforeseen outcome by ArmaLite but your call out is appropriate. 
 

it’s not their fault. They are low functioning sycophants that can’t see past the rouse they are getting sold. 
 

I tend to pity them more than anything. It’s gotta feel oppressive to literally have your own thoughts predetermined for you by some political agenda. 

 

Holy crap. With all this talk of AR's I never once put two and two together and came up with Assault Rifle.  LOL!

2 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

Timmy...you seem to make a living calling others ignorant and stupid. You argue about insignificant details to defend the indefensible. 

Every state has its own laws. Every gun show plays by its own rules. When 4, 8, 23 or 40 people are killed with one of these weapons the issue of whether the gun was legal or not matters little. The people died needlessly. 

The gun lobby has done nothing to assist in the control of the spread of these weapons. The gun lobby and people like you build barriers to the control of these weapons. Many people have no problem with gun ownership. Many people gave no problem with defending your property and loved ones.

But you will never stop these senseless killings until the gun lobby and people like you assist in the control of these weapons and who has access and when they have access. 

 

 

 

There was a "mass" shooting here in Orange County the other day.  Care to guess which one of "these" scary weapons of choice used?  

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You keep saying "these weapons" but then can't define what that means. You want gun control for fully automatic weapons when you already need a special license  to get an automatic weapon. These are not small issues unless your goal is to simply remove all guns. If your goal is to stop crazy people from killing maybe stop focusing on the weapon and focus on how to deal with mental illness in society.

There you go again, focus on small details not whether to put in real controls and step to stop murders. I am not the Flippin enemy. Special licenses do not work. The proof is on the front page.

[Orlando Tim]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

There you go again, focus on small details not whether to put in real controls and step to stop murders. I am not the Flippin enemy. Special licenses do not work. The proof is on the front page.

With the exception of the Vegas shooting no one has used an automatic weapon, so what headlines are you referring to?  As I stated you can not define what you want to ban and the "do something" people are a true problem. These murderers are mentally ill and generally show indications long before they act and that is where we need to focus. Guns are not the issue, mental health is and your position would just push them to use a different tool.

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So why not lobby on your side of the issue? (I’ll ignore the fact that you can’t because you’re not a US citizen, for sake of the debate.) You want the ‘gun lobby’ to stop lobbying for guns? Excellent! I’d like Planned Parenthood to stop lobbying for abortion funding. We’ll call it a draw.

 

I’ve actually spoken on this topic at a few professional conferences. Your problem should be with the elected officials, not the ‘lobby’.

Planned parenthood and mass killings are not equal issues and one does not need to solve them together. There needs to be a dialog with a desire to succeed. 

By the way, I am not an abortionist or pro. I believe religion has no place in politics. If you do not support abortion, don't have one. That's ok. It's like assisted suicide, not for me but not up to me.

The lobby group by their lack of action shows support for the extreme, thus no resolution can be made. I spent my life creating solutions, creating compromise, finding a path. Yes politicians are the problem. Yes donations are a problem. Yes extremists are a problem. From my point of view the most influential group in this discussion to save lives is The NRA. Imagine what could happen if they led a reasonable debate. The left cannot do it. They have no one of the influence like the NRA. 

380,000,000 citizens need someone to help.

 

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

With the exception of the Vegas shooting no one has used an automatic weapon, so what headlines are you referring to?  As I stated you can not define what you want to ban and the "do something" people are a true problem. These murderers are mentally ill and generally show indications long before they act and that is where we need to focus. Guns are not the issue, mental health is and your position would just push them to use a different tool.

Good let them use a knife, bat, electric drill, crow bar....nothing short of explosives can be as damaging. 

[SoCal Deek]

7 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

Planned parenthood and mass killings are not equal issues and one does not need to solve them together. There needs to be a dialog with a desire to succeed. 

By the way, I am not an abortionist or pro. I believe religion has no place in politics. If you do not support abortion, don't have one. That's ok. It's like assisted suicide, not for me but not up to me.

The lobby group by their lack of action shows support for the extreme, thus no resolution can be made. I spent my life creating solutions, creating compromise, finding a path. Yes politicians are the problem. Yes donations are a problem. Yes extremists are a problem. From my point of view the most influential group in this discussion to save lives is The NRA. Imagine what could happen if they led a reasonable debate. The left cannot do it. They have no one of the influence like the NRA. 

380,000,000 citizens need someone to help.

 

Good let them use a knife, bat, electric drill, crow bar....nothing short of explosives can be as damaging. 

Oh brother. Get off your abortion soapbox. My point is that both groups lobby elected officials. As do many other group representing all sorts of industries. The real problem is that our elected officials let this relentless lobbying impact their votes...on both sides of the aisle. So write your representatives and give them your opinion. (Of course they’re going to ask if you’re a US citizen...which you’re not.)

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Oh brother. Get off your abortion soapbox. My point is that both groups lobby elected officials. As do many other group representing all sorts of industries. The real problem is that our elected officials let this relentless lobbying impact their votes...on both sides of the aisle. So write your representatives and give them your opinion. (Of course they’re going to ask if you’re a US citizen...which you’re not.)

1. You are the arse that brought up abortion and parenthood, so you can get off your possum. 

2. I agree that lobby money is the big problem. 

3. I would never write them, I only talk politics and issues with people.

4. The big issue is, people who belong to NRA need to have policy change to jump start change 

[B-Man]

 

[Unforgiven]

According to ABC 7 / Chicago Sun-Times, 19 people were shot and one of those individuals succumbed to his wounds.

The fatality occurred around 1:30 a.m. Sunday, following an argument that pitted a 31-year-old man against two other persons. One of the two other persons pulled a gun and opened fire, shooting the 31-year-old 14 times.

The shooting victim was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead.

The Chicago Tribune reports 703 people were shot in January 1, 2021, through March 31, 2021, in Chicago. That is 184 more people than were shot during the same time-frame in 2020.

In a separate body of data, the Tribune notes 134 people were killed in Chicago January 1, 2021, through March 31, 2o21. That represents 28 more homicides than were seen during the same time-frame in 2020.

[SoCal Deek]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:21 PM, Niagara Bill said:

1. You are the arse that brought up abortion and parenthood, so you can get off your possum. 

2. I agree that lobby money is the big problem. 

3. I would never write them, I only talk politics and issues with people.

4. The big issue is, people who belong to NRA need to have policy change to jump start change 

You’re an idiot. You only like to rant when it’s a cause you support. But how dare anyone bring up a lobbying group that actually takes my tax dollars!  Your hypocrisy is showing there Niagara.

PS: Happy Easter 😉

[All_Pro_Bills]

19 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

According to ABC 7 / Chicago Sun-Times, 19 people were shot and one of those individuals succumbed to his wounds.

The fatality occurred around 1:30 a.m. Sunday, following an argument that pitted a 31-year-old man against two other persons. One of the two other persons pulled a gun and opened fire, shooting the 31-year-old 14 times.

The shooting victim was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead.

The Chicago Tribune reports 703 people were shot in January 1, 2021, through March 31, 2021, in Chicago. That is 184 more people than were shot during the same time-frame in 2020.

In a separate body of data, the Tribune notes 134 people were killed in Chicago January 1, 2021, through March 31, 2o21. That represents 28 more homicides than were seen during the same time-frame in 2020.

These numbers are troubling but these shootings are not motivated by political dogmas, bias, or mental health issues.  But nobody seems to be in any hurry to address the issue of gun violence here other than placing blame with out-of-state gun purchases or lax laws in other states where weapons are sourced and purchased.  One other key factor is almost all these shootings are young black men killing or wounding other young black men.  Unlike the mass shootings angle this doesn't provide any race baiting and gun control exposure.  And the added dramatic attention getter that "it could be you next".  With these inner city killings it most definitely will not be you in the case of most Americans whatever their political or social views.  So these shootings don't generate a lot of political capital and the core social issues here are an area where politicians fear to tread. 

 

What it comes down to is a lot of young men without any social or male parental guidance caught in an endless cycle of violence, lack of education, poor job prospects, and poverty locked into an environment of lifetime social welfare dependency.  Who could be expected to grow and prosper in such an environment?  To solve the problem requires a complete and honest examination of social and economic factors.  And a redefinition of assistance programs targeting a goal of personal independence rather than dependence.  Something the liberal establishment running failed policies refuses to address or consider.  Although its obvious these social programs are dysfunctional and fail to meet any goal of improving the lives of the target audience the strategy of "do more of what's not working until it works" continues to be employed.  If they worked you'd expect to see some substantial results after 50 or so years.  So I suggest the shootings will continue until people actually "on the ground" in these communities have more say and input.  In this situation dropping the political rhetoric and just getting down to solving the problem is needed.  But when will that happen?

Edited April 5, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[B-Man]

 

Stop blaming everything on ‘white supremacy.’ 

 

The Atlanta and Boulder shootings were swiftly pinned on racism.

 

The reality was very different.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/31/stop-blaming-everything-on-white-supremacy/

[BillStime]

Definitely MORE GUNS. WE NEED MORE GUNS and LESS LEGISLATION. More blood at the hands of the NRA and GQP.