How the Chiefs use Travis Kelce to make him unstoppable

[Old Coot]

Interesting X's & O's study on Chief's play design that gets Kelce open:

 

https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/01/28/how-the-chiefs-use-travis-kelce-to-make-him-unstoppable/

[machine gun kelly]

Coot, thanks.  I’ll check this out tonight.  I like these kinds of articles using All22.

[Gugny]

Thanks for posting.  I'll have to check this out later, but I imagine a significant part is him actually catching the ball.

[Big Turk]

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

[HOUSE]

The Old Coot brings back bad memories

[colin]

Just now, HOUSE said:

The Old Coot brings back bad memories

 

HOUSE FROM DOWNTOWN!!!

[MarkyMannn]

Good article.  Ironic it is one week before the Super Bowl where Kelce got shut down

[Artem Lipatov]

18 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

what is it he is missing?

Reliable hands

[dorquemada]

20 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

 

More than anything I think Knox needs time in seat, as we say.  He was barely targeted in college, and has only had 1 training camp in the pros.  I hope he's working on his hands this offseason, whatever the TE equivalent of Jordan Palmer is

[timekills17]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Thanks for posting.  I'll have to check this out later, but I imagine a significant part is him actually catching the ball.

 

Sounds like a rabble rousing attempt from that comment.

 

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

 

The ball, usually. See above.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by timekills17

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, timekills17 said:

 

Sounds like a rabble rousing attempt from that comment.

 

 

The ball, usually. See above.

 

 

I'm pointing out that we have a tight end who has about a 50% catch rate.   That's not rabble rousing.  It's stating fact.  First and foremost, Kelce is awesome because he catches catchable passes.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

 

We use the slot WR for a lot of the same route concepts.  I think Knox needs to be more effective as a blocker to see the field more.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

Stickum?

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I am wondering what is holding Knox back from being more in Kelce's mode? Clearly he has the athleticism to be a matchup nightmare...what is it he is missing?

First, I doubt Knox will ever be Kelce.   Kelce is a special combination of size, speed, hands, and intelligence.   Knox doesn't catch the ball as well as Kelce, and he hasn't shown the intelligence yet, although I think that may still be coming.   He also doesn't have Kelce's size, but he may still grow some.  

 

But beyond Kelce's skills is the Chiefs' scheme.  The Chiefs threaten defenses with so much good, deep speed that defenses are forced to have their linebackers cover a lot of space underneath.   When you have a really good, smart TE and a smart QB, there's a lot of territory to attack, and that's what the Chiefs do.   The Bills don't threaten teams with the same level of great wideout talent (would have been interesting to see a healthy Brown in 2020), so Knox didn't have the wide open spaces that Kelce sees week after week. 

 

How do you stop the Chiefs' attack?  Tampa Bay did it with merciless pass rush.  They put Mahomes under a lot of pressure, play after play, rushing four, and that made life miserable for him.  Linebackers could play Kelce tight, and Mahomes often didn't have time for Kelce to outrun the linebackers to open spaces.  Kelce still caught his 10 passes, but Kelce was the only option who was getting open before the rush drove Mahomes from the pocket.  

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Focus. Football smarts.

 

Knox seems like a complete meat head to me who completely lacks the instincts to be anything short of an ok option as a #2 TE in the league. 

As I said, I think it's scheme and complementary weapons, but you may be correct about Knox.  He seems a bit like a loose cannon.  But the Bills don't usually draft meatheads; they draft smart guys with worth ethic, so Knox may have the ability to grow into more than we've seen out of him so far.  2021 is the year we'll see whether he has real potential beyond what you say. 

[Shaw66]

Dawson Knox had the second highest Wonderlic of tight ends in his draft class. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Dawson Knox had the second highest Wonderlic of tight ends in his draft class. 

If he had only gone to Harvard...😕

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Dawson Knox had the second highest Wonderlic of tight ends in his draft class. 

and you yourself have said this means very little in the grand scheme of things lol

[BillsVet]

A good way for TE's to succeed is not to jam them at the LOS and let them catch passes where they can run in the open field. 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Focus. Football smarts.

 

Knox seems like a complete meat head to me who completely lacks the instincts to be anything short of an ok option as a #2 TE in the league. 

 

Gronk?

 

Kelce fits that mold to btw.  

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

and you yourself have said this means very little in the grand scheme of things lol

I think the Wonderlic is important.   I think pro football is about scheme and coaching, and the smart guys who can thing fast are important for coaches to have on the field.  Josh had a high Wonderlic - I think it's particularly important for QBs.   The announcers say that one thing that makes Kelce so valuable is that he's a former QB and thinks like one.  

 

So, I think brains are important part of Knox's game, if he's going to be a success.  

[PrimeTime101]

26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think the Wonderlic is important.   I think pro football is about scheme and coaching, and the smart guys who can thing fast are important for coaches to have on the field.  Josh had a high Wonderlic - I think it's particularly important for QBs.   The announcers say that one thing that makes Kelce so valuable is that he's a former QB and thinks like one.  

 

So, I think brains are important part of Knox's game, if he's going to be a success.  

Shaw,, I respect the %$#@^%$&^%& out of you lol... BUT... You can have all the football smarts in the world and have the best Wonderlic score out there and still be a bad player.. you know this, I know this.  In reverse players with horrible Wonderlic scores have been GREAT players. This is not even debatable. 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Shaw,, I respect the %$#@^%$&^%& out of you lol... BUT... You can have all the football smarts in the world and have the best Wonderlic score out there and still be a bad player.. you know this, I know this.  In reverse players with horrible Wonderlic scores have been GREAT players. This is not even debatable. 

It works both ways - some great players do it with talent, some do it with brains.  Brady and Fitzpatrick, for example, are two of the least physically gifted players in the league.  Jimmy Leonhard couldn't compare physically with safeties around the league, but he played forwith brains for ten years.  

 

McBeane want smart players.   I'm sure Knox's Wonderlic was one of the positives they saw in him when they drafted him.   Whether he makes it as a serious threat, of course, depends on more than just brains.   He has to catch the ball consistently, among other things.  

 

 

[Locomark]

8 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

More than anything I think Knox needs time in seat, as we say.  He was barely targeted in college, and has only had 1 training camp in the pros.  I hope he's working on his hands this offseason, whatever the TE equivalent of Jordan Palmer is

Sounds a lot like Josh doesn’t it? Didn’t get major big time reps until the pros ?? Might just need to marinade a bit more.... 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It works both ways - some great players do it with talent, some do it with brains.  Brady and Fitzpatrick, for example, are two of the least physically gifted players in the league.  Jimmy Leonhard couldn't compare physically with safeties around the league, but he played forwith brains for ten years.  

 

McBeane want smart players.   I'm sure Knox's Wonderlic was one of the positives they saw in him when they drafted him.   Whether he makes it as a serious threat, of course, depends on more than just brains.   He has to catch the ball consistently, among other things.  

 

 

you made my point. Works both ways.

[timekills17]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:30 PM, Shaw66 said:

It works both ways - some great players do it with talent, some do it with brains.  Brady and Fitzpatrick, for example, are two of the least physically gifted players in the league.  Jimmy Leonhard couldn't compare physically with safeties around the league, but he played forwith brains for ten years.  

 

McBeane want smart players.   I'm sure Knox's Wonderlic was one of the positives they saw in him when they drafted him.   Whether he makes it as a serious threat, of course, depends on more than just brains.   He has to catch the ball consistently, among other things.  

 

 

 

I think both of you are saying the same thing.

Having a high Wonderlic doesn't automatically equate to high "football intelligence."

But it's a likely indicator for ability to learn and get to a high football intelligence.

(Conversely having a low Wonderlic doesn't mean no football smarts; that may be where they are a genius.)

 

Kelce being a former QB means he was ahead of some players in already acquired football intelligence, especially the receiver-QB sync.

The football smarts at the pro level are hard enough to pick up for players who've played a position for 8-10 years prior to the pros. As we all know, Knox wasn't use as a pass-catching TE at all in college, and even as a TE period he's pretty new to the game.

 

Bottom line: He didn't arrive with the TE football smarts, but his evaluation indicates he can acquire them.

It's been two years. It's time to show that's true.

[cd1]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:58 AM, dorquemada said:

 

More than anything I think Knox needs time in seat, as we say.  He was barely targeted in college, and has only had 1 training camp in the pros.  I hope he's working on his hands this offseason, whatever the TE equivalent of Jordan Palmer is

 I don't know - maybe its like a "chicken or the egg" thing.

 

Maybe Knox can't catch because they did not throw him many balls in college...

 

OR

 

Maybe Knox can't catch SO they did not throw him many balls in college!

 

Actually, I am surprised Allen gives him as many chances as he has. Does Allen have to second guess throwing the ball Knox's way?