Trump supporters...please show class. Don't be sore losers...

[snafu]

On 11/8/2020 at 12:04 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

This is unhinged Whataboutism run amok.  Yes, Joe Biden, who served as VP to the first black President and whose VP choice is the first black woman to serve in that role, is secretly a racist.  Great work on your thesis.  Nevermind that those policies (which I would agree have been disasters) were largely advocated for by inner-city leaders.

 

Please.  This crap is exhausting.

 

To be fair, Biden's VP choice slammed his racist-past policies during the democrat debates.

She said something like "I don't think you're a racist .. but you're a racist". If you want whataboutism, start there.

 

 

[TBBills]

7 hours ago, shoshin said:

How about Biden supporters show class? 

 

Being a sore winner is much worse than a sore loser. 

I didn't hear you saying this in the 4 years trump was president. Stop pretending like anyone of the Trumpies in this forum have class b/c not a single one of them showed any for 4 years.

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

My guess is that Biden lasts longer than Covid Donnie.   He's 3 years older than Trump but in better physical and mental health. I would not be surprised if Covid Donnie has a serious, possibly fatal, health crisis like a heart attack or stroke within 2 years.    

 

He's in better physical and mental health than Trump?  You're basing this on what exactly? 

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ve been agreeable to just this sort of thing for most of my 58 years.  I sat down and waited while Obama did his thing, was prepared to hold my  tongue when Clinton was heiress and was pleasantly surprised when she went down like a presidential intern.  That reminds me, too, that I really hated the Clinton impeachment saga at the time, feeling that poor bill just got a hummer so what’s the big deal? 
 

That started to change for me when friends and neighbors of mine sat like expectant schoolchildren for the “Don is a Russian” report.  I have been doing some work on a property I bought and found in the attic a Newsweek from 1956.  It’s got Nixon on the cover, and in it the story is all about him characterizing Adlai Stevenson as. A commie $&@$.  You could simply change some names and you have the abortion we just went through.    There are no new ideas, just different cycles and new dimwits to fleece.  I even could have forgiven that, I’ve been dim witted at times you see, but the reality is you people didn’t really care that it went nowhere, and probably still would have supported removing him from office in spite of it. 
 

When Trump suggested that Obama wiretapped Trump Towers, as a conciliatory and good natured conservative I was outraged, explaining to my conservative friends and family how damaging that sort of thing would be to the Republic.  Well, a couple years later a good old fashioned wire tapping would have been garden variety political *****, what went down was much worse and you’re cool with that too. 

 

When you follow the Kav saga, the way it played out was that a henchman took a fabulous and fanciful Game of Thrones type-tale (power, corrupted morals, alcohol and sizing sexploitation) with no verifiable facts and attempted to destroy a guy who actually seems like  a good and decent man (unlike Biden and for that matter, DJT or any other of these scummers in Washington).  Was that the unity and togetherness you’re pining for, the part where you say a guy is a serial rapist because there is literally no fallout for doing so?  Seems to me it is, because you gave that crowd the stamp of approval with you vote, yes?  
 

Trump feels compelled to see this through, and suddenly we’re supposed to forgive and forget?   I say hard pass, and while you might well be a good and decent person that would be great to have a beer with and talk the Bills, politically speaking and with the utmost respect to you as a voter I say go &$&$ yourself and your appeal for unity NOW, suddenly, as if by magic.
 

Whatever happens, happens.   I’m confident that calls for unity of the sort your looking for will fall on deaf ears.  Some folks will get back in the bus and sit in the back with a vacant stare and an “Oh well”, but many will not.  

I have to admit you’ve lost me here.  I am a political independent, actually quite conservative in a number of areas, so when you use the all inclusive “we” and try and lump me in with left wingers, that dog just don’t hunt.

 

I think you’re trying to bring up the idea that Obama’s administration tried to do something to take down Trump in the 2016 election?  This has been looked at, one FBI agent was nailed for screwing up.  But the ultimate decision was that there was cause to look into it.  Barr’s guy is looking into it, and if he finds something then those responsible should be held to account.  But since nothing came out before the election (when it would have had obvious advantages politically) I suspect it will be like Ron Johnson’s Senate investigation of Ukraine that ultimately showed nothing.  But feel free to be specific in your thoughts without reference to Game of Thrones (never seen it) and we can discuss over a virtual beer.

 

I think Trump lost for one reason:  too many people were just tired of his act.  Tired of the insults, tired of the tweets all the time, tired of the tone.  Biden offers a change.  I think we need to come together as a country, thought so 4 years ago.  One guy has said he wants to work towards that, one guy by his actions said he didn’t and was voted out.

[Chef Jim]

29 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ve been agreeable to just this sort of thing for most of my 58 years.  I sat down and waited while Obama did his thing, was prepared to hold my  tongue when Clinton was heiress and was pleasantly surprised when she went down like a presidential intern.  That reminds me, too, that I really hated the Clinton impeachment saga at the time, feeling that poor bill just got a hummer so what’s the big deal? 
 

That started to change for me when friends and neighbors of mine sat like expectant schoolchildren for the “Don is a Russian” report.  I have been doing some work on a property I bought and found in the attic a Newsweek from 1956.  It’s got Nixon on the cover, and in it the story is all about him characterizing Adlai Stevenson as. A commie $&@$.  You could simply change some names and you have the abortion we just went through.    There are no new ideas, just different cycles and new dimwits to fleece.  I even could have forgiven that, I’ve been dim witted at times you see, but the reality is you people didn’t really care that it went nowhere, and probably still would have supported removing him from office in spite of it. 
 

When Trump suggested that Obama wiretapped Trump Towers, as a conciliatory and good natured conservative I was outraged, explaining to my conservative friends and family how damaging that sort of thing would be to the Republic.  Well, a couple years later a good old fashioned wire tapping would have been garden variety political *****, what went down was much worse and you’re cool with that too. 

 

When you follow the Kav saga, the way it played out was that a henchman took a fabulous and fanciful Game of Thrones type-tale (power, corrupted morals, alcohol and sizing sexploitation) with no verifiable facts and attempted to destroy a guy who actually seems like  a good and decent man (unlike Biden and for that matter, DJT or any other of these scummers in Washington).  Was that the unity and togetherness you’re pining for, the part where you say a guy is a serial rapist because there is literally no fallout for doing so?  Seems to me it is, because you gave that crowd the stamp of approval with you vote, yes?  
 

Trump feels compelled to see this through, and suddenly we’re supposed to forgive and forget?   I say hard pass, and while you might well be a good and decent person that would be great to have a beer with and talk the Bills, politically speaking and with the utmost respect to you as a voter I say go &$&$ yourself and your appeal for unity NOW, suddenly, as if by magic.
 

Whatever happens, happens.   I’m confident that calls for unity of the sort your looking for will fall on deaf ears.  Some folks will get back in the bus and sit in the back with a vacant stare and an “Oh well”, but many will not.  

 

Correct. Trump supporters have been called every name in the book the past 4 years and then are asked we let bygones be bygones and unite.  Not feeling it yet.  I'm just feeling so deplorable.  

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Correct. Trump supporters have been CALLING EVERYONE NOT THEM every name in the book the past 4 years

Fixed the truth for you. Trump likes to make fun of disabled people also which I heard you Trumpies love.

[section122]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Correct. Trump supporters have been called every name in the book the past 4 years and then are asked we let bygones be bygones and unite.  Not feeling it yet.  I'm just feeling so deplorable.  

 

Hang on.... repeatedly on this board you have claimed not to be a Trump supporter.

 

I haven't called any Trump supporter any name all 4 years.  I have certainly talked about Trump himself and how I disagree with the way he handles himself and his leadership style.  The lasting mark of the Trump legacy was that he actually got people to care and vote.  This election had a record turnout largely thanks to Trump.  Love him or hate him he moved the meter.

 

In my opinion Biden won because of all the anti trump votes not because people wanted Biden.  Trump won because of all of the anti hillary votes.  Here's to hoping that 2024 brings a candidate that people vote for!

 

 

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Correct. Trump supporters have been called every name in the book the past 4 years and then are asked we let bygones be bygones and unite.  Not feeling it yet.  I'm just feeling so deplorable.  

Everyone always can tell you why they won’t budge. The Dems can tell you too. 
 

And yet everyone needs to move in closer to make it work. 

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Fixed the truth for you. Trump likes to make fun of disabled people also which I heard you Trumpies love.

 

First of I'm not sure what a Trumpie is but I guess because I voted for him you'll consider me on.  So based on that you say I like making fun of disabled people?  Please explain to me what you're basing that assumption on.  I will tell you there is very little that will piss me off more that you saying I love making fun of disabled people.  

4 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Hang on.... repeatedly on this board you have claimed not to be a Trump supporter.

 

 

 

Not true.  I voted for him twice.  I support him.  Do I like his act?  Nope but I support him and many of the things he's done while in office.  

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

First of I'm not sure what a Trumpie is but I guess because I voted for him you'll consider me on.  So based on that you say I like making fun of disabled people?  Please explain to me what you're basing that assumption on.  I will tell you there is very little that will piss me off more that you saying I love making fun of disabled people.  

 

Not true.  I voted for him twice.  I support him.  Do I like his act?  Nope but I support him and many of the things he's done while in office.  

Hey you are the one who supports a guy who would make fun of the disabled so you must support that also.

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Hey you are the one who supports a guy who would make fun of the disabled so you must support that also.

 

So in your world when you support someone you agree with everything they say or do.  That doesn't exist in reality.  Hell I think every married guy here will say there is something their wife does that annoys the ***** out of them but they still love them and would marry them all over again.   

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have to admit you’ve lost me here.  I am a political independent, actually quite conservative in a number of areas, so when you use the all inclusive “we” and try and lump me in with left wingers, that dog just don’t hunt.

 

I think you’re trying to bring up the idea that Obama’s administration tried to do something to take down Trump in the 2016 election?  This has been looked at, one FBI agent was nailed for screwing up.  But the ultimate decision was that there was cause to look into it.  Barr’s guy is looking into it, and if he finds something then those responsible should be held to account.  But since nothing came out before the election (when it would have had obvious advantages politically) I suspect it will be like Ron Johnson’s Senate investigation of Ukraine that ultimately showed nothing.  But feel free to be specific in your thoughts without reference to Game of Thrones (never seen it) and we can discuss over a virtual beer.

 

I think Trump lost for one reason:  too many people were just tired of his act.  Tired of the insults, tired of the tweets all the time, tired of the tone.  Biden offers a change.  I think we need to come together as a country, thought so 4 years ago.  One guy has said he wants to work towards that, one guy by his actions said he didn’t and was voted out.

Apologies for losing you, and I’m sorry your dog can’t hunt.  Get a lab. 😇

I’m socially liberal on many issues, conservative on others.  Labels are less relevant than they have ever been. 
 

The former director of the Obama CIA accused him of treason.  AG Barr said what happened to him was one of the greatest travesties in American political history.   Mueller and his gang of door kickers dug though just about everything and returned nothing.  0.00. 
 

I speak only for myself, though I’d bet  a large percentage of the 70m who voted for Trump say the same—thank you, not interested in coming together on the terms as dictated. 
 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Apologies for losing you, and I’m sorry your dog can’t hunt.  Get a lab. 😇

I’m socially liberal on many issues, conservative on others.  Labels are less relevant than they have ever been. 
 

The former director of the Obama CIA accused him of treason.  AG Barr said what happened to him was one of the greatest travesties in American political history.   Mueller and his gang of door kickers dug though just about everything and returned nothing.  0.00. 
 

I speak only for myself, though I’d bet  a large percentage of the 70m who voted for Trump say the same—thank you, not interested in coming together on the terms as dictated. 
 

 

Then how do we get the country working together again?  Looks like we share similar political philosophies, so I’d be interested in your thoughts.

 

i think of historical examples.  Reagan and O’Neil were as opposite politically as you could get, but every week had drinks together, and got things done, notably saving Social Security.  My favorite President was Truman, not for his politics but because he was faced with so many critical decisions and took them on unflinchingly.  When it came to big things like saving Europe with the Marshall Plan, we had bipartisanship.  More recently Bush and 9/11.  We came together.

 

We are each middle of the electorate it seems, conservative in areas and liberal in others.  Should we not be able to work together?

[Orlando Tim]

This title is hilarious, as if at any point in our countries history Conservative voters have ever shown as little class as liberals the past 4 years. More importantly I would hope liberals would try and explain to us conservatives how Trump is a racist but Biden is not when Biden sponsored a bill that decimated the Black community and did a eulogy for a KKK member?

[TBBills]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

This title is hilarious, as if at any point in our countries history Conservative voters have ever shown as little class as liberals the past 4 years. More importantly I would hope liberals would try and explain to us conservatives how Trump is a racist but Biden is not when Biden sponsored a bill that decimated the Black community and did a eulogy for a KKK member?

Aristocrat is that you again?

[Orlando Tim]

18 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Aristocrat is that you again?

Why do respond to questions when you can't answer? The sad part is you think you are clever, which is something the stupid aspire to be.

[realtruelove]

Be Like Water.

[Bakin]

2 hours ago, TBBills said:

Hey you are the one who supports a guy who would make fun of the disabled so you must support that also.

By that rationale, you are a racist because you support Joe Biden who has said many hateful things. 
Why do you hate black people?

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, Bakin said:

By that rationale, you are a racist because you support Joe Biden who has said many hateful things. 
Why do you hate black people?

Yea the guy who was picked by a BLACK President as his VP, the same guy who has the first Black woman vice president. Sounds so racist to a white man like yourself I bet.

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Why do respond to questions when you can't answer? The sad part is you think you are clever, which is something the stupid aspire to be.

B.c you don't bother looking at the conversation that everyone had with aristocrat already... Stop repeating defeated bull####.

Edited November 10, 2020 by TBBills

[All_Pro_Bills]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Then how do we get the country working together again?  Looks like we share similar political philosophies, so I’d be interested in your thoughts.

 

i think of historical examples.  Reagan and O’Neil were as opposite politically as you could get, but every week had drinks together, and got things done, notably saving Social Security.  My favorite President was Truman, not for his politics but because he was faced with so many critical decisions and took them on unflinchingly.  When it came to big things like saving Europe with the Marshall Plan, we had bipartisanship.  More recently Bush and 9/11.  We came together.

 

We are each middle of the electorate it seems, conservative in areas and liberal in others.  Should we not be able to work together?

That's a good question.  How do we get people working together again?  I've thought about that too and how it likely won't happen after another contentious Presidential election that played out under the circumstances we have now.  But here's where I think it needs to start.

 

The most important thing right now is that people believe in the legitimacy and fairness of the election process.  And that every vote of every citizen cast is counted correctly by the rules, procedures, and laws governing the electoral process.  In the big picture of our republic and the democratic process it really isn't important if Biden or Trump won.  What matters is the established process and procedures are followed to the letter so we all understand the results are legitimate.  But now we have the second election in a row where about 1/2 the country thinks the electoral process isn't fair.  If we walk away from this event without producing a result of legitmacy and fairness were doomed from the start again.

 

So what to do?  Well, the first thing is to embrace the truth, the search for the truth and resist any efforts from anyone to suppress to truth.  The contention here is there were voting irregularities.  Dead people casting ballots, poll workers denied their rights under the process to observe the vote counting process and cast objections, and abuses of the mail-in ballot process.  These allegations are focused on several "battle ground" states.  To name a few.

 

The most likely scenario is the supporters of the declared "winner" will resist and dismiss these allegations.  But should they?  And is it really in their best interests to do so?  

 

First, there are allegations that the votes of "dead people" have been cast and counted in certain State and Counties.  And since dead people are incapable of showing up at the polls and casting a vote in person or filling out and mailing a mail-in ballot logic leads to the conclusion that some "live person" not authorized to cast a vote in the name of the dead person either showed up at the polling place and cast a ballot or filled out a mail-in ballot in violation of the process.  Shouldn't we all be interested in understanding how the votes of dead people found their way into the electoral process and have those voted invalidated and removed from the count?  Shouldn't everyone be interested in the truth and the validity of the electoral process and the result?   And shouldn't everyone with a shred of integrity and moral character  be interested in the motivation of people that cast illegal votes in the names of dead people and hold them accountable and have them suffer the consequences of their actions?  And if these allegations prove to be false shouldn't we all be satisfied that the alleged violation of the electoral process was properly investigated and found to be false?   Should we all be satisfied that the truth was found and the process was found to be fair?  

 

Allegations that poll observers were refused their right under the process to observe the vote count and object to specific ballots that could potentially violate the count process?  Should we all be interested in why poll observers were inhibited from observing the vote count process and understanding the motivation of those violating their right under the process?  Shouldn't we all be interesting in knowing if they were hiding something or what other process and procedure of the electoral process that might have been violated?  Shouldn't we all be interested in knowing the truth and insuring all votes were properly counted?

 

Allegations that mail-in ballots were back-dated to allow them to be counted have been made.  Shouldn't we all be interested to know if and why back-dating of ballots is an issue?  Shouldn't we all be interested that the ballots were counted and cast properly? 

 

In closing everyone needs to ask themselves.  Is the result so important that I'm willing to compromise my personal integrity and moral beliefs and overlook violations of the electoral process?  Am I unwilling to give people I might disagree with a fair and impartial review of their grievances simply because we disagree on specific issues?  And what happens when the shoe is on the other foot?  Will I think I have a "right" to something I might deny to others? 

 

I think the biggest problem we face is that everybody is afraid of the truth.  Lying seems to be so much more convenient and easier.  But "the truth will set you free" as Dr. King said.  For a long time I didn't quite understand what he meant.  But I think I do now.  What it simply means is if you deal with the truth and facts and ignore and dismiss everybody's BS you'll see things as they really are and this will eliminate the power and control that the system and other people have over you.    

 

 

[BillStime]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

This title is hilarious, as if at any point in our countries history Conservative voters have ever shown as little class as liberals the past 4 years. More importantly I would hope liberals would try and explain to us conservatives how Trump is a racist but Biden is not when Biden sponsored a bill that decimated the Black community and did a eulogy for a KKK member?

 

 

[oldmanfan]

39 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's a good question.  How do we get people working together again?  I've thought about that too and how it likely won't happen after another contentious Presidential election that played out under the circumstances we have now.  But here's where I think it needs to start.

 

The most important thing right now is that people believe in the legitimacy and fairness of the election process.  And that every vote of every citizen cast is counted correctly by the rules, procedures, and laws governing the electoral process.  In the big picture of our republic and the democratic process it really isn't important if Biden or Trump won.  What matters is the established process and procedures are followed to the letter so we all understand the results are legitimate.  But now we have the second election in a row where about 1/2 the country thinks the electoral process isn't fair.  If we walk away from this event without producing a result of legitmacy and fairness were doomed from the start again.

 

So what to do?  Well, the first thing is to embrace the truth, the search for the truth and resist any efforts from anyone to suppress to truth.  The contention here is there were voting irregularities.  Dead people casting ballots, poll workers denied their rights under the process to observe the vote counting process and cast objections, and abuses of the mail-in ballot process.  These allegations are focused on several "battle ground" states.  To name a few.

 

The most likely scenario is the supporters of the declared "winner" will resist and dismiss these allegations.  But should they?  And is it really in their best interests to do so?  

 

First, there are allegations that the votes of "dead people" have been cast and counted in certain State and Counties.  And since dead people are incapable of showing up at the polls and casting a vote in person or filling out and mailing a mail-in ballot logic leads to the conclusion that some "live person" not authorized to cast a vote in the name of the dead person either showed up at the polling place and cast a ballot or filled out a mail-in ballot in violation of the process.  Shouldn't we all be interested in understanding how the votes of dead people found their way into the electoral process and have those voted invalidated and removed from the count?  Shouldn't everyone be interested in the truth and the validity of the electoral process and the result?   And shouldn't everyone with a shred of integrity and moral character  be interested in the motivation of people that cast illegal votes in the names of dead people and hold them accountable and have them suffer the consequences of their actions?  And if these allegations prove to be false shouldn't we all be satisfied that the alleged violation of the electoral process was properly investigated and found to be false?   Should we all be satisfied that the truth was found and the process was found to be fair?  

 

Allegations that poll observers were refused their right under the process to observe the vote count and object to specific ballots that could potentially violate the count process?  Should we all be interested in why poll observers were inhibited from observing the vote count process and understanding the motivation of those violating their right under the process?  Shouldn't we all be interesting in knowing if they were hiding something or what other process and procedure of the electoral process that might have been violated?  Shouldn't we all be interested in knowing the truth and insuring all votes were properly counted?

 

Allegations that mail-in ballots were back-dated to allow them to be counted have been made.  Shouldn't we all be interested to know if and why back-dating of ballots is an issue?  Shouldn't we all be interested that the ballots were counted and cast properly? 

 

In closing everyone needs to ask themselves.  Is the result so important that I'm willing to compromise my personal integrity and moral beliefs and overlook violations of the electoral process?  Am I unwilling to give people I might disagree with a fair and impartial review of their grievances simply because we disagree on specific issues?  And what happens when the shoe is on the other foot?  Will I think I have a "right" to something I might deny to others? 

 

I think the biggest problem we face is that everybody is afraid of the truth.  Lying seems to be so much more convenient and easier.  But "the truth will set you free" as Dr. King said.  For a long time I didn't quite understand what he meant.  But I think I do now.  What it simply means is if you deal with the truth and facts and ignore and dismiss everybody's BS you'll see things as they really are and this will eliminate the power and control that the system and other people have over you.    

 

 

The truth is of course necessary.  But looking at the 2016 election the Trump administration put together a committee to examine supposed fraud in voting, and it was disbanded because nothing was found.  Looking at the current election, it seems that voters followed state laws for submitting votes, either by voting in person early, by mail in, or by voting in person last Tuesday.  Those empowered by their states to run elections, including Republicans, have stated the counting was done properly.  And while legitimate challenges should of course be allowed, vague accusations with no proof or validity should not.  You mention challenges about observers.  When that was brought before a judge, the Reublican’s attorney had to admit that their observers were in fact present.

 

So I’m all for truth, but I am not for blind accusations with no proof or validity being done simply to try and raise suspicions.  That harms the electoral process more than anything.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Allegations without evidence can and should be rightfully dismissed without evidence.

[ALF]

If Democrats were able to cheat with the mail in they would have put in a Senate majority . 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's a good question.  How do we get people working together again?  I've thought about that too and how it likely won't happen after another contentious Presidential election that played out under the circumstances we have now.  But here's where I think it needs to start.

 

The most important thing right now is that people believe in the legitimacy and fairness of the election process.  And that every vote of every citizen cast is counted correctly by the rules, procedures, and laws governing the electoral process.  In the big picture of our republic and the democratic process it really isn't important if Biden or Trump won.  What matters is the established process and procedures are followed to the letter so we all understand the results are legitimate.  But now we have the second election in a row where about 1/2 the country thinks the electoral process isn't fair.  If we walk away from this event without producing a result of legitmacy and fairness were doomed from the start again.

 

So what to do?  Well, the first thing is to embrace the truth, the search for the truth and resist any efforts from anyone to suppress to truth.  The contention here is there were voting irregularities.  Dead people casting ballots, poll workers denied their rights under the process to observe the vote counting process and cast objections, and abuses of the mail-in ballot process.  These allegations are focused on several "battle ground" states.  To name a few.

 

The most likely scenario is the supporters of the declared "winner" will resist and dismiss these allegations.  But should they?  And is it really in their best interests to do so?  

 

First, there are allegations that the votes of "dead people" have been cast and counted in certain State and Counties.  And since dead people are incapable of showing up at the polls and casting a vote in person or filling out and mailing a mail-in ballot logic leads to the conclusion that some "live person" not authorized to cast a vote in the name of the dead person either showed up at the polling place and cast a ballot or filled out a mail-in ballot in violation of the process.  Shouldn't we all be interested in understanding how the votes of dead people found their way into the electoral process and have those voted invalidated and removed from the count?  Shouldn't everyone be interested in the truth and the validity of the electoral process and the result?   And shouldn't everyone with a shred of integrity and moral character  be interested in the motivation of people that cast illegal votes in the names of dead people and hold them accountable and have them suffer the consequences of their actions?  And if these allegations prove to be false shouldn't we all be satisfied that the alleged violation of the electoral process was properly investigated and found to be false?   Should we all be satisfied that the truth was found and the process was found to be fair?  

 

Allegations that poll observers were refused their right under the process to observe the vote count and object to specific ballots that could potentially violate the count process?  Should we all be interested in why poll observers were inhibited from observing the vote count process and understanding the motivation of those violating their right under the process?  Shouldn't we all be interesting in knowing if they were hiding something or what other process and procedure of the electoral process that might have been violated?  Shouldn't we all be interested in knowing the truth and insuring all votes were properly counted?

 

Allegations that mail-in ballots were back-dated to allow them to be counted have been made.  Shouldn't we all be interested to know if and why back-dating of ballots is an issue?  Shouldn't we all be interested that the ballots were counted and cast properly? 

 

In closing everyone needs to ask themselves.  Is the result so important that I'm willing to compromise my personal integrity and moral beliefs and overlook violations of the electoral process?  Am I unwilling to give people I might disagree with a fair and impartial review of their grievances simply because we disagree on specific issues?  And what happens when the shoe is on the other foot?  Will I think I have a "right" to something I might deny to others? 

 

I think the biggest problem we face is that everybody is afraid of the truth.  Lying seems to be so much more convenient and easier.  But "the truth will set you free" as Dr. King said.  For a long time I didn't quite understand what he meant.  But I think I do now.  What it simply means is if you deal with the truth and facts and ignore and dismiss everybody's BS you'll see things as they really are and this will eliminate the power and control that the system and other people have over you.    

 

 

 

Anybody can make any allegation about anyone or anything, especially on social media.   Without real evidence -- names, places, times, etc -- that will stand up to scrutiny in court,  it's all sound and fury without meaning.  So far, the GOP hasn't provided any kind of proof that there was any significant fraud anywhere much less any kind of organized fraud in multiple states, which would be necessary to "steal" a national election.  

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

41 minutes ago, ALF said:

If Democrats were able to cheat with the mail in they would have put in a Senate majority . 

My assessment is the objective was purely focused on getting rid of Trump.  And this view was shared by many Republicans such as the "never-Trumpers" and other members of the professional political class that steered clear of supporting, endorsing, or campaigning for Trump.  Trump is not a member of the professional political class.  He is a loud and abusive party-crasher that for all purposes, good and bad, interrupted their racket for almost 4 years.  So the bosses met and made a deal to keep hands off the Senate races. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So the bosses met and made a deal to keep hands off the Senate races. 

 

Allegations without evidence can and should be rightfully dismissed without evidence.

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Anybody can make any allegation about anyone or anything, especially on social media.   Without real evidence -- names, places, times, etc -- that will stand up to scrutiny in court,  it's all sound and fury without meaning.  So far, the GOP hasn't provided any kind of proof that there was any significant fraud anywhere much less any kind of organized fraud in multiple states, which would be necessary to "steal" a national election.  

 

 

I don't disagree but I think we're very early in the process to issue a blanket dismissal of all potential improprieties.  After all its only been a few days.  And its that quick and immediate dismissal that creates a lot of suspicion and generates distrust of the process.  The fact is we don't know all the facts.   

4 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Allegations without evidence can and should be rightfully dismissed without evidence.

So the scientific process of discovery for developing a hypothesis or theory and then performing investigations and analysis, gathering facts to either support or dispute a potential conclusion is invalid without evidence that you are right to begin with?  Which eliminates the need to perform any investigation?  Wow!  If we used that line of thinking we'd still be living in caves and sitting around campfires being hunted by Sabertooth Tigers.. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So the scientific process of discovery for developing a hypothesis or theory and then performing investigations and analysis, gathering facts to either support or dispute a potential conclusion is invalid without evidence that you are right to begin with?  Which eliminates the need to perform any investigation?  Wow!  If we used that line of thinking we'd still be living in caves and sitting around campfires being hunted by Sabertooth Tigers.. 

 

Are you a flat earther too?

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Are you a flat earther too?

That's funny.  You will make an excellent drone.  The only thing flat going on here is your brainwave pattern..

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's funny.  You will make an excellent drone.  The only thing flat going on here is your brainwave pattern..

 

All the scientific evidence, specifically the vote count, shows Biden won.

 

Your evidence is

 

24 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So the bosses met and made a deal to keep hands off the Senate races. 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by wAcKy ZeBrA

[shoshin]

I read the PA complaint today. Zero allegation of voter fraud. Zero evidence of vote changing. Zero request for votes to be switched. 
 

Just process complaints and the fear of “what could have happened.” A parade of fantasies around what could be going on at a distance of 10 feet from vote counters and the like, but not one instance or allegation of actual votes being changed. Let alone Rudy and his witness’s claim of 600,000 plus claim. 
 

That case is going nowhere for Trump. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

9 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Are you a flat earther too?

 

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That's funny.  You will make an excellent drone.  The only thing flat going on here is your brainwave pattern..

So what you're saying is "no, I don't have any evidence to the contrary but jybfeelings are hurt"

 

Facts don't care about your feelings. I feel like I've heard that somewhere before

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

I read the PA complaint today. Zero allegation of voter fraud. Zero evidence of vote changing. Zero request for votes to be switched. 
 

Just process complaints and the fear of “what could have happened.” A parade of fantasies around what could be going on at a distance of 10 feet from vote counters and the like, but not one instance or allegation of actual votes being changed. Let alone Rudy and his witness’s claim of 600,000 plus claim. 
 

That case is going nowhere for Trump. 

 

Nevermind the character of Rudy's witness - does Rudy have any associates who are not sexual predators?

[shoshin]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Then how do we get the country working together again?

 

This is the ultimate question. We have been in a long period of peace and prosperity the likes of which we've never had, and yet have a political rhetoric that resembles warring countries.

 

It will take an unending display of public decency and civility, on both sides, even when someone says or does something insulting, even after your ox gets gored. It is going to be VERY hard. That's how to do it in concept. In practice:

 

(1) Get some early bipartisan wins. Pass a few no-brainer things but do them to huge bipartisan fanfare. "Today we reached bipartisan agreement on Covid stimulus with my friends across the aisle..." etc.

(2) As part of (1), emphasize in joint press conferences that the win could not have been possible without hard negotiations and compromise, the stuff of democracy. 

(3) Publicly show and emphasize some moments of civility. Biden invites Mitch to the White House to discuss health care reform, criminal justice legislation, immigration, etc. Each time make it very public and close with a joint press conference. 

 

I would say that's the start. How we get from there--the leadership--to getting people to converse respectfully: That's tougher. 

[HeHateMe]

I mean we saw this coming from 4 years ago... Leading up to the 2016 election Trump said it was rigged against him and there was widespread fraud... but he won so you didn't hear anything about it afterwards... 

 

What did we just see leading up to this election... Trump spouting off that it was again rigged against him and there was widespread voter fraud.  Shouting some insane theory and trying to fit the pieces afterwards is Trumps go to.  

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

All the scientific evidence, specifically the vote count, shows Biden won.

 

Your evidence is

 

 

This is getting us nowhere.  Asking for evidence here is just a game to shut down conversation.

 

What "first hand" evidence do any of us have that the process was free and fair?  Nothing.  What "first hand" evidence to any of us have that the process was tainted?  Nothing.  How would anyone have any "evidence" unless they are an election officials charged with vote counted or monitoring the results or someone directly performing an investigation?  We know what we are told to know and we believe it or not based on many things such as the credibility we assign to the source.    

You evidently are willing to believe what you are told without question because it either suits your position or you trust the source.  I am willing to entertain the idea that things need more examination and that it can't hurt to take a look because I think the entire system is corrupt and due for a reset.  And Biden ain't no reset.. 

And frankly I don't care who won because I can say with almost 100% certainty that no matter who won it isn't going to impact anything important in my life one way or the other.  This is the same boat most of us are in.  I'll still need to pay my bills, work my job, take care of myself and my family, pay taxes, and keep trudging along.  Trump didn't help me and I think he's an idiot.  In fact his tax law changes totally screwed me.  And Biden isn't going to help me either unless he wants to pay my bills and mortgage for me and other than that just leave me alone. 

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

This is getting us nowhere.  Asking for evidence here is just a game to shut down conversation.

 

What "first hand" evidence do any of us have that the process was free and fair?  Nothing.  What "first hand" evidence to any of us have that the process was tainted?  Nothing.  How would anyone have any "evidence" unless they are an election officials charged with vote counted or monitoring the results or someone directly performing an investigation?  We know what we are told to know and we believe it or not based on many things such as the credibility we assign to the source.    

You evidently are willing to believe what you are told without question because it either suits your position or you trust the source.  I am willing to entertain the idea that things need more examination and that it can't hurt to take a look because I think the entire system is corrupt and due for a reset.  And Biden ain't no reset.. 

And frankly I don't care who won because I can say with almost 100% certainty that no matter who won it isn't going to impact anything important in my life one way or the other.  This is the same boat most of us are in.  I'll still need to pay my bills, work my job, take care of myself and my family, pay taxes, and keep trudging along.  Trump didn't help me and I think he's an idiot.  In fact his tax law changes totally screwed me.  And Biden isn't going to help me either unless he wants to pay my bills and mortgage for me and other than that just leave me alone. 

As I pointed out above under Trump’s administration they convened a study under that guy from Kansas to uncover all the supposed fraud.  It was quietly disbanded because nothing was found.  Other studies of fraud have similarly shown none to very small fractions of a percent incidence.

 

The data is there.  It seems you don’t want to believe it.

Edited November 10, 2020 by oldmanfan

[HeHateMe]

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

As I pointed out above under Trump’s administration they convened a study under that guy from to uncover all the supposed fraud.  It was quietly disbanded because nothing was found.  Other studies of fraud have similarly shown none to very small fractions of a percent incidence.

 

The data is there.  It seems you don’t want to believe it.

 

Can't be having any of that now can we... 

[Bakin]

12 hours ago, TBBills said:

Yea the guy who was picked by a BLACK President as his VP, the same guy who has the first Black woman vice president. Sounds so racist to a white man like yourself I bet.

B.c you don't bother looking at the conversation that everyone had with aristocrat already... Stop repeating defeated bull####.

She’s half Caribbean half Indian. Does that mean she’s BLACK?  Does that mean Biden isn’t racisssssss?  What about all his derogatory comments about blacks, and what about his crime Bill and what about him holding hands with the Grand Wizard?

I guess those all get a pass in your hypocritical eyes. 
Trump is the least racist POTUS - maybe ever. Only rubes like you judge people on the color of their skin.