The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 hours ago, Figster said:

Myself personally, I think the running ability of Lamar Jackson is elite. Combined with a good throwing arm IMO.( I didn' t say great) Jackson has an ability to extend and make plays other more traditional pocket QB's can't IMO.

 

The more I watch Lamar Jackson the more I like what I see... 

 

I have not questioned that.  
 

If the game comes down to him having to throw constantly.   Do you have faith?

 

 

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's an important point that a team can have the recipe, but they still can't cook worth a darn if they don't have the ingredients.

Or at least enough of the ingredients.

the idea of him being unbeatable is what I find flawed. 
 

that’s all. 

[Shaw66]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

 

I'm happy I was able to post something that succeeded in keeping you all so well entertained while we waited for the next game to roll around.  I'm having trouble focusing on Lamar with game time approaching.  

 

Welcome to the Josh Allen Era!!!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I think it is reasonable to have some pause when it comes to Jackson when we take into account how both Kaepernick and Tyrod played early in their careers under Roman. Jackson is a superior athlete than both Tyrod and Kaepernick so I see him having more lasting success. Question still remains if that means he will be a top 5 type franchise QB or if he will ultimately end up more like a top 10-15 QB.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

 

I'm happy I was able to post something that succeeded in keeping you all so well entertained while we waited for the next game to roll around.  I'm having trouble focusing on Lamar with game time approaching.  

 

Welcome to the Josh Allen Era!!!

 

THIS.  It's going to be Mahomes vs. Allen for the next 10+ years.

 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

14 hours ago, Figster said:

traditional pocket QB's

 

Traditional pocket QBs are going the way of the dinosaurs. Mobility and improvisation are required traits in 2020. Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Dak, Kyler, all superstars (or on their way), and all can beat you with their legs. 

 

The Ravens are 14 point favorites today, I'm looking forward to the ready made excuses if Lamar torches them. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Jackson is what you get when you upgrade Tyrod.

 

 

 

...good analogy.....for now, I'll say Jackson is one read and run until proven otherwise......asinine analogy to put Jckson in the same sentence comparative as "Russell Wilson early on".....Wilson was FAR more polished early on and learned to hone his run decisions to "if or if alt all".....special thanks to Graham in the 3rd......

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Traditional pocket QBs are going the way of the dinosaurs. Mobility and improvisation are required traits in 2020. 

 

All of the upcoming superstar QBs can make plays with their feet. 

 

Question because I don't follow college football pretty much at all:

 

How do Lawrence, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Jones etc rank in that regard?

 

[TheElectricCompany]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question because I don't follow college football pretty much at all:

 

How do Lawrence, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Jones etc rank in that regard?

 

 

I don't either, but here's some quick findings:

 

Lawrence: 

The junior signal-caller is a creative playmaker when the play breaks down and he is very dangerous on designed quarterback runs. He will lower his shoulder to take on defenders, but his speed is his greatest asset as a runner. https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trevor-lawrence-qb-similar-to-deshaun-watson

 

Tua :

Improvisational pocket escapes, fits the mold of NFL's new dual-threat quarterbacks, He needs better poise when pressured, but his escapability not only moves the chains, it creates chunk plays in the air and on the ground.https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tuanigamanuolepola-tagovailoa/32195441-4762-0344-3a46-269f5e5e854e

 

Burrow: 

Above-average toughness in pocket and as runner, Unexpected wiggle to elude when scrambling, Makes explosive, off-schedule plays while on the move, Can deliver back-breaking runs to move the chains https://www.nfl.com/prospects/joseph-burrow/32194255-5267-9731-81c8-48673dcec5e2

 

Herbert: 

Big, talented full-field scanner able to find the right read and sling it around the yard from the pocket or on the move, has zone-read ability and can roll downhill once he's flushed from the pocket https://www.nfl.com/prospects/justin-herbert/32194845-5203-1169-a699-ce41d700202a

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

25 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Traditional pocket QBs are going the way of the dinosaurs. Mobility and improvisation are required traits in 2020. Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Dak, Kyler, all superstars (or on their way), and all can beat you with their legs. 

 

The Ravens are 14 point favorites today, I'm looking forward to the ready made excuses if Lamar torches them. 

 

I fully expect Lamar to torch the Redskins today. It will be very concerning if he does not.

 

The OP is way over the top with the Lamar era being over. But, i think the bigger point is probably that Mahomes vs. Allen seems more likely to be the rivalry of the current era of football over Mahomes vs. Jackson. 

[TheElectricCompany]

16 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I fully expect Lamar to torch the Redskins today. It will be very concerning if he does not.

 

The OP is way over the top with the Lamar era being over. But, i think the bigger point is probably that Mahomes vs. Allen seems more likely to be the rivalry of the current era of football over Mahomes vs. Jackson. 

 

I think they'll beat the snot out of them - we'll see. It shows how high the expectations are with Lamar if we'd consider 2 poor games "concerning", but when you're the MVP, it does come with the territory. 

 

If Allen v. Mahomes is this decades version of Brady vs Manning, that would be special. At the least, Josh has to be universally better than Lamar and Watson (really suffering without Hopkins) for that rivalry to occur. We're not there yet. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[CircleTheWagons99]

97 passing yards. If Josh puts up those numbers people would want him gone. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Traditional pocket QBs are going the way of the dinosaurs. Mobility and improvisation are required traits in 2020. Lamar, Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Dak, Kyler, all superstars (or on their way), and all can beat you with their legs. 

 

The Ravens are 14 point favorites today, I'm looking forward to the ready made excuses if Lamar torches them. 

This is only half right.  IMMOBILE pocket QBs are going the way of dinosaurs.   QBs now have to be able to scramble and to run.  

 

But that that doesn't mean that you don't have to be a good pocket passer, and that's my point about Lamar.  The premier QBs are now and always will be great pocket passers.   Passing out of the pocket is the only way the passing attack can attack the whole field.   Allen, Mahomes, Watson are clearly on their way to become outstanding pocket passes.   May make it, may not, but they're showing they have the potential.  Dak is a step behind, but has a shot.  I haven't seen enough of Murray.  As a pocket passer, Lamar looks much more like Tyrod than like Wilson.  He's in his third season and he's shown very little progress in that regard.   

 

As others have said, compare Jackson's progress in three years in terms of throwing the ball all over the field to Allen's.  It's no comparison - Allen is way ahead.   Now, sure, you can say Jackson doesn't have the talent around him, and you can say he's got a coordinator who features the run, but you need to recognize that there are reasons for that.   Allen has Diggs and Daboll BECAUSE he's able to throw from the pocket all over the field; if the Ravens had Allen, do you think they wouldn't have gotten some receiver talent for him and spread out the offense?  

 

The Ravens have a limited offense BECAUSE they have a limited QB.  Can he become a great pocket passer?   Sure.  He's an elite athlete - he's every bit as talented as Russell Wilson.  But he has to learn to throw the deep and mid-range ball, he needs to learn how to throw it out of the pocket, he needs to learn how to read defenses.   Right now, he's still running something that looks more like a college offense - a lot of single-read, option stuff.   That isn't going to cut it in the NFL.  

[TheElectricCompany]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

  He's in his third season and he's shown very little progress in that regard.   

 

This is where I lose you Shaw. 

 

He was clearly a raw passer in 2018 and leaned on his legs.  2019? He took a massive leap as a passer. He threw 24 TDs from the pocket. Did you see the videos, or the nextGen stats of his passing numbers, that were previously posted? I forget who originally posted this upthread, but the numbers don't support someone who made "very little progress" throwing the ball. Even the poor deep ball narrative isn't THAT bad.  2020? He's still improving, just at a more modest pace.  He'll continue to improve, barring a catastrophic injury. I know football is a complex game, but to me, we're making this so much more complicated than it needs to be. You can't throw 36 TDs and 6 picks in 15 games unless you're a very talented passer. 

 

 

On the 'Josh v Lamar' stuff, I don't really care. It's a Bills forum, OF COURSE we're going to think our guy is better. Outside our bubble, the narrative is strongly Lamar > Allen, but that could change in the coming years. Fingers crossed. 

 

EDIT - Damn, he RAN for a 50 yard TD. He should have thrown it! 

Edited October 4, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

With the way the rules are right now Dilfer might even be able to break 300 every now and then. 

 

Funny thing about Trent Dilfer - lots of fans talk and analysts how he was caretaker and game manager but when he was not re-signed after season a number of players complained. 

That team which supposedly whose wins were due to dense lost in Division round next year.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's NFL "most valuable player" not "most valuable QB".  It includes his contributions as both a rusher and a passer.

When you look at the value and impact a single player had on driving a team to success, how can you see Lamar as a "Joke" MVP? 

 

The guy had 4,333 yds of offense - 1206 rushing, 3127 passing.  43 rushing and passing TDs.  That's a huge level of offensive contribution

You can come up with other candidates, sure. 

 

But to call Lamar winning MVP a "joke?

 

C'mon, Man!

 

A poor passer is not the MVP,should have went to Mahomes again. Doesn't matter anyway Josh is winning it this year.

 

 

[StHustle]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

A poor passer is not the MVP,should have went to Mahomes again. Doesn't matter anyway Josh is winning it this year.

 

 

 

Calling him a "poor" passer is absurd. How about watching the games and looking at the stats. His passing ability has proven to be top half of the league and maybe even top 10.

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:10 AM, Bills fan since 87 said:

Excellent analysis,  I've been telling my friends this for a bit but not in so many well put words.

I like how the bills held jackson to 45 passing yards and 45 rushing at half last year, but half time highlights made him look like he was jesus playing qb. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

I think jackson as far as an athlete is second to only aaron donald in the NFL. Darnold is a mutant created in a lab to play football. But i think the excellent defense of the ravens have really shadowed jacksons passing issues. If jackson improved his passing hes the most dangerous in the league. But when he's forced to sit in the pocket and produce, like the chiefs did or like in his past playoff games he comes up very short. But he does force defenses to have to game plan for him and thats valuable in its self.

[formerlyofCtown]

Looks like he restarted his ERA.

 

I didn't understand the JA doubters and I don't understand the Lamar doubters.  If the get him a Diggs his passing numbers will improve, not on. JA level but they will improve.

 

He is a different kind of QB.  He is what Buddy was looking for in Cunningham, what Rex was looking for in TT and what Kap could have been if he stayed focused on his game a bit more.

[FLFan]

At this point in time, Jackson is a very limited QB. He is a great athletic talent.  Perhaps he will learn how to be a QB.  Right now, he is doing a very good imitation of Michael Vick, who (off field issues aside) never learned how to be a complete QB, and never reached his potential.  Jackson will continue to confound poor to mediocre teams, and struggle against the elite teams of the NFL due to his limitations.  He is electric when presented with the right opposition.  He is ordinary facing elite competition.