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Penfield45

Kyler Murray ran the ball 13 times, only got hit once

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point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

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27 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

Curious to see what the responses will be. One is 6'3" 230lbs and the other is 5'3" 130lbs🤣 One runs like a cheetah and the other runs like, well a Buffalo.

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To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

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Man, watching Murray run is like watching James Harden drive to the basket. Not a knock, because it's hacking the system to get results, and that's all that matters. But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting... to see him sliding into defenders' knees. But he's short and baseball-trained, so I'd blame him if he didn't do it. Also, the vast majority of Murray's runs were scrambles.

 

Allen's issue on Sunday was most of his runs were designed options. Just my opinion, but it's super hard to justify a slide on an option play. Like, just don't run it at all if protecting the quarterback is a primary concern. There were a few designed runs Sunday where Allen should have slid though. The reverse field stiff-arm comes to mind. The knock-out against the Patriots is an all-time obvious one too. But to me alot of it comes down to design - scrambles are easier to justify slides, and I'd rather see plays designed to take advantage of Allen's scrambling ability (like clearing sides or something) as opposed to designed run plays where you're going to have to fight through a tackle or two to justify the call. But I'm a novice at that stuff so I don't know.

 

Edited by Ecmic82
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Tyler Murray has a Doug Flutie build. He only needs to take 1 shot and he is out for the count..... I agree Josh shouldn’t be taking 10 shots a game but you have Newton running straight at people at age 30 so there are those few physical people who have that ability and physique to get away with it. The reality is Jim Kelly used to take 5-8 big hits a game because he wasn’t mobile and would get hit just standing in the pocket. I actually think that’s worse because that’s where the serious knee injuries happen.

Just now, Locomark said:

 

Edited by Locomark
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11 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

To be fair, we’re comparing a motorcycle to an SUV here. Murray is smaller and faster. 
Let’s be honest, the 6 foot 5 quarterback isn’t exactly supposed to be a scrambler. We can all agree the hits need to be limited but if you’re expecting he’ll turn into a Murray or Wilson or even Lamar that’s just not gonna happen. 

If Murray took one of the hits that Josh is accustomed to he'd go on IR.

 

1 minute ago, Ecmic82 said:

Man watching Murray run is like watching James Harden drive to the basket. Not a knock, because it's hacking the system to get results, and that's all that matters. But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting... to see him sliding into defenders' knees. But he's short and baseball-trained, so I'd blame him if he didn't do it. Also, the vast majority of Murray's runs were scrambles.

 

Allen's issue on Sunday was most of his runs were designed options. Just my opinion, but it's super hard to justify a slide on an option play. Like, just don't run it at all if protecting the quarterback is a primary concern. There were a few designed runs Sunday where Allen should have slid though. The reverse field stiff-arm comes to mind. The knock-out against the Patriots is an all-time obvious one too. But to me alot of it comes down to design - scrambles are easier to justify slides, and I'd rather see plays designed to take advantage of Allen's scrambling ability (like clearing sides or something) as opposed to designed run plays where you're going to have to fight through a tackle or two to justify the call. But I'm a novice at that stuff so I don't know.

 

Its a double standard. Guys like Josh, Cam and Big Ben will hardly draw a call (well maybe not Ben) because a lot of times they will take on contact or slide what might be considered too late. Murray as you mentioned played baseball and has great sliding technique. And because he's so small if you make contact with him it almost looks deliberate, like you're bullying him. If you slide into a person who's coming at you full speed how in the heck is he supposed to avoid contact?

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31 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said:

But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting

 

He really did get some absurd phantom calls. He's a legit QB and a budding star, but those calls drove me nuts.

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4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

If Murray took one of the hits that Josh is accustomed to he'd go on IR.

 

Its a double standard. Guys like Josh, Cam and Big Ben will hardly draw a call (well maybe not Ben) because a lot of times they will take on contact or slide what might be considered too late. Murray as you mentioned played baseball and has great sliding technique. And because he's so small if you make contact with him it almost looks deliberate, like you're bullying him. If you slide into a person who's coming at you full speed how in the heck is he supposed to avoid contact?

 

It's interesting because I think it's true, and it delves into an aspect of sport that actually transcends sport, so I think it'll be pretty much impossible to remove the human bias that influences a necessary rule (protecting the quarterback). Refs are refs, but more fundamentally refs are products of social norms that promote unequal adjudication of physical threat, so the NFL won't be able to reconcile what you describe from what the letter of their law says should be.

Edited by Ecmic82
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48 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Tyler Murray has a Doug Flutie build. He only needs to take 1 shot and he is out for the count..... I agree Josh shouldn’t be taking 10 shots a game but you have Newton running straight at people at age 30 so there are those few physical people who have that ability and physique to get away with it. The reality is Jim Kelly used to take 5-8 big hits a game because he wasn’t mobile and would get hit just standing in the pocket. I actually think that’s worse because that’s where the serious knee injuries happen.

 

 

I don't think there is much evidence for smaller guys being more injury prone.  I don't remember Doug Flutie being very injury prone nor is Russell Wilson injury prone.   

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1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I don't think there is much evidence for smaller guys being more injury prone.  I don't remember Doug Flutie being very injury prone nor is Russell Wilson injury prone.   

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height.

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

When he scrambles the defenders look like rocky bal boa and he’s the chicken 🐓 

One of my favorite scenes.

Rocky: It's my lucky shirt, it brings me luck.

Micky: You know what it brings, it brings flies

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, billsbackto81 said:

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height.

My doctor didn't put it as delicately as that.

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3 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 


 

To be fair - they say he only got tackled once.  Did you even watch the game?

 

Murray took at least 3 big shots as he slid.  Twice the 49ers were called for roughing and they let the third go.  Two of the three times he get hit in the head and neck area - which is how both Flacco and Alex Smith got knocked out for multiple games with concussions.  The third hit was when Murray did not really slide - he slipped and fell sideways and got smacked and for some reason they flagged the 49ers and both the announcers and the booth Ref said it was a legal hit.

 

The point is Murray took as many shots as Allen and when he slides - you see his baseball background because he gets down quick, but it exposes his head to shots.  I think sliding for Allen would actually expose him to more big hits especially to his head, neck, and shoulder regions.  This is especially true if he tries to get down late with guys barring down on him.

 

I want to see him slide when he has room and has the first down, but I also do not want to see him go Kyle Orton and slide just to avoid hits and not get a first down that could lead to a win.  I want him to play his game - not what Penfield45 thinks is best.

 

Plus I think you should really fix your title which is a complete lie.  He got tackled once.  He took many more hits on his runs.  You totally changed what actually happened and it is wrong.

Edited by Rochesterfan

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38 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Why do so many think Russell Wilson is small? He's 5'11" and yes that may be shorter than some QB's but he's also 215-220lbs. That's pretty good mass on someone that height .

 

 

 

 

You could argue that Murray was cheating but Murray weight 205 at his pro day and Russell Wilson weighted 204 at his pro day so if Russell Wilson is not small neither is Kyler Murray.

Edited by Billy Claude

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23 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

You could argue that Murray was cheating but Murray weight 205 at his pro day and Russell Wilson weighted 204 at his pro day so if Russell Wilson is not small neither is Kyler Murray.

Yep, looks are deceiving. Supposedly 5'10" 207lbs but he looks soooooo much smaller than that, at least on TV. 

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What is the over under for amount of threads Penfield will start on variations of this topic?

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