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Penfield45

Kyler Murray ran the ball 13 times, only got hit once

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I was thinking about Allen running and I realized part of what makes him super effective is his ability to break tackles and run through arm tackles. Contact is kind of a prerequisite for that.

 

But he does need to take LESS hits. I just don't think he is ever going to be a type of runner that can avoid contact.

 

I've always supported his running. It is exciting. I love watching it. I think it is super cool that he gets a bunch of rushing TD's as a QB. He just needs to continue to work through the fumbles and figure out how to avoid those big hits.

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14 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Josh is never going to be as fast or shifty as those other guys. He’s not built to make people miss down field. He’s a bigger target. There’s tons of reasons why he’s never going to be the same kind of scrambler as Murray or Wilson or Lamar. And those reasons are why he’ll never avoid hits the same as them. Those are not learned talents those are god given my friend. 

 

so how does one execute the popular move known as the "qb slide"? Like even Tom Brady can slide right? Like you don't have to be gifted athletically to slide. So, I understand a little better what you're trying to say I just don't agree.

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35 minutes ago, kenny3000 said:

 

so how does one execute the popular move known as the "qb slide"? Like even Tom Brady can slide right? Like you don't have to be gifted athletically to slide. So, I understand a little better what you're trying to say I just don't agree.

It’s not just about sliding. It’s about avoiding contact and using the sidelines. At least that’s mostly what I see from Lamar and Wilson. They get a nice little scramble and use the sideline to avoid being hit. Josh tends to lower his shoulder and get the extra yard or two in those situations. I haven’t watched much of Murray but like others say Murray and Wilson were bigtime baseball players along with football so they’ve been practicing sliding their whole lives. 
Brady slides out of pure terror as he cannot handle taking a hit anymore whereas Allen seems to enjoy some contact in his game. As he matures or the coaches get mad he’ll learn to avoid more hits. Another thing to keep in mind is those other quarterbacks are not running many if any designed quarterback runs. Their scrambles are mostly broken plays or a judgment call to run and break the pocket. Josh has designed runs which puts him almost in a Derrick Henry powerback kinda situation coming around the corner 

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I would like to see JA try to self-preserve a little bit better. Murray has a more elusive running style where Josh is going to try to run through you with enough force to remove your soul and get a 1st. Arizona was pretty entertaining and now with Nuk I actually want to watching a Cards game.

 

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Every time I watch Murray I get pissed off for flutie... if a coaching staff and front office fully committed to flutie he would've had a great career.

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9 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

It’s not just about sliding. It’s about avoiding contact and using the sidelines. At least that’s mostly what I see from Lamar and Wilson. They get a nice little scramble and use the sideline to avoid being hit. Josh tends to lower his shoulder and get the extra yard or two in those situations. I haven’t watched much of Murray but like others say Murray and Wilson were bigtime baseball players along with football so they’ve been practicing sliding their whole lives. 
Brady slides out of pure terror as he cannot handle taking a hit anymore whereas Allen seems to enjoy some contact in his game. As he matures or the coaches get mad he’ll learn to avoid more hits. Another thing to keep in mind is those other quarterbacks are not running many if any designed quarterback runs. Their scrambles are mostly broken plays or a judgment call to run and break the pocket. Josh has designed runs which puts him almost in a Derrick Henry powerback kinda situation coming around the corner 

word. it's just that to me it's not about ability, it's what he's trying to do. josh is lowering his shoulder not because he has to and can't get out of the way, but because he either wants to compete his ass off, impress that upon his teammates/coaches or make a point that he is part superman. in any of those cases, he is always able to use the sidelines and avoid contact by sliding with his current athletic makeup/ability. he just chooses not to, that's what I was trying to say. he has the ability while running to minimize hits and stay healthy just like every one of those qbs - Wilson, Jackson, Murray, etc. he just isn't choosing to do that. that's not a limit of his athletic ability or body makeup, just how he's approaching it. 

Edited by kenny3000

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8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

One guy fumbles a lot while running the other doesn't.

But one guy is a better QB ( Allen )while the other ( Murray ) is just a better version of Tyrod Taylor 

Edited by BuffaloBills1998

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4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But one guy is a better QB ( Allen )while the other ( Murray ) is just a better version of Tyrod Taylor 

Time will tell. But I think it was Daboll who said Allen was one hell of a piece of clay to mold.

 

btw, a better version of Tyrod Taylor sounds pretty dam good to me ijs. 

Edited by kenny3000

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Kyler Murray has passing skills and awareness that tyrod never had. Murray is Michael Vick with the passing of a garapolo or even Goff. Hes gonna be a super star.  I believe he will barely edge out Josh Allen for mvp 

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1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

Josh is never going to be as fast or shifty as those other guys. He’s not built to make people miss down field. He’s a bigger target. There’s tons of reasons why he’s never going to be the same kind of scrambler as Murray or Wilson or Lamar. And those reasons are why he’ll never avoid hits the same as them. Those are not learned talents those are god given my friend. 

 

cool. 

 

so when he ruptures his ACL trying to gain an extra 2 yards using his "god given talent" I wonder how Bills fans will feel 

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35 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But one guy is a better QB ( Allen )while the other ( Murray ) is just a better version of Tyrod Taylor 

Many would disagree. I am hopeful that Allen will be the better QB in the long run. But most impartial / non Bills or Cards fans would look at the evidence and say Murray is the better QB right now. Was better in college and has had a better NFL start. 

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23 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

cool. 

 

so when he ruptures his ACL trying to gain an extra 2 yards using his "god given talent" I wonder how Bills fans will feel 

The same feelings as they do now. Nobody wants him on these designed runs turning the corner taking on defensive linemen and linebackers. 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But one guy is a better QB ( Allen )while the other ( Murray ) is just a better version of Tyrod Taylor 

What?  There literally isn’t one shred of fact in this post.  
 

also why did you compare Murray to Taylor? This is just a bad post all around. 

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Many would disagree. I am hopeful that Allen will be the better QB in the long run. But most impartial / non Bills or Cards fans would look at the evidence and say Murray is the better QB right now. Was better in college and has had a better NFL start. 

This board is like politics.  It’s ok to understand there are currently qbs that are better than Allen but still hope he can progress to a top level.  But it seems like a Lot of members don’t watch other teams besides the Bills.  Allen is a better qb than Dak because they played that one game.  It’s awful logic.

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11 hours ago, Ecmic82 said:

Man, watching Murray run is like watching James Harden drive to the basket. Not a knock, because it's hacking the system to get results, and that's all that matters. But a couple of those runs on Sunday ended in defensive personal fouls that were very questionable, and it was a bit... off-putting... to see him sliding into defenders' knees. But he's short and baseball-trained, so I'd blame him if he didn't do it. Also, the vast majority of Murray's runs were scrambles.

 

Allen's issue on Sunday was most of his runs were designed options. Just my opinion, but it's super hard to justify a slide on an option play. Like, just don't run it at all if protecting the quarterback is a primary concern. There were a few designed runs Sunday where Allen should have slid though. The reverse field stiff-arm comes to mind. The knock-out against the Patriots is an all-time obvious one too. But to me alot of it comes down to design - scrambles are easier to justify slides, and I'd rather see plays designed to take advantage of Allen's scrambling ability (like clearing sides or something) as opposed to designed run plays where you're going to have to fight through a tackle or two to justify the call. But I'm a novice at that stuff so I don't know.

 

This you can’t slide on a designed option play, it doesn’t really work like that. On scrambles that’s a totally different issue. 

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13 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

 

point is, if Daboll is going to continue running Allen, the kid needs to learn how to not take hits. It is going to catch up to him, this habit of lowering his shoulder against 270lb LB's needs to be wiped from his brain. 

 

if Allen learns how to slide/go to ground more the fumble problems go away on their own. 

That amazing leap over Barr in the Viking game may have been the worst thing that could have happened to Josh's feeling of invincibility. He's gotta avoid contact at all costs.  Murray & Wilson do it. Yes Josh we get it. You're big & strong. Now if you were just as strong holding onto the ball?

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3 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

cool. 

 

so when he ruptures his ACL trying to gain an extra 2 yards using his "god given talent" I wonder how Bills fans will feel 


The exact same as when he ruptures his ACL because of the hit he got in the pocket by the Jets player.

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Josh loves the hero ball stuff.  He can’t help it, it’s in his DNA.  He probably knows it’s stupid to absorb so many hits running but he can’t resist.  Even while showing improved accuracy, he still has to run a bit.  Last year when he stopped for a few games his stats sucked 

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