John Brown with high praise for rookie WRs “Gabriel Davis playing all over the field”

[CEN-CAL17]

8 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

That’s exactly why he makes the team and was acquired before.  McD knows there are three phases to a team and Roberts is one of the top 5-6 returners in the NFL.  Most returners are with WR’s, DB’s, and in some cases a RB.  If you’re keeping a 6th WR, if he is a top returner he makes the team.  This team doesn’t even do many 4 wide sets.  They lean more on three so he’s not just a back up, but a dedicated returner.

I get it. 3-4 years ago the dude was a stud. He’s going on 32 years old.

 

His punt return avg last year was 7.9 yards a return. Longest return was 22 yards, 0 TDs.... That’s half of what he did in 2018. I just don’t see the guy as a LOCK like some....

 

I just don’t know if I cut McKenzie or put Hodges on the PS for the taking, especially if they are doing as well as smoke said especially in a COVID season.

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Mckenzie

Hodges

 

Mckenzie? and Hyde can be my punt returners. Kickoff isn’t even part of the NFL anymore.

[eball]

I don’t remember if this was posted somewhere else but I saw that NFLN’s Cynthia Brelund ranked the Bills’ WR room 5th in the league. Only the Saints, Cowboys, Chiefs, and Bucs were higher. 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I get it. 3-4 years ago the dude was a stud. He’s going on 32 years old.

 

His punt return avg last year was 7.9 yards a return. Longest return was 22 yards, 0 TDs.... That’s half of what he did in 2018. I just don’t see the guy as a LOCK like some....

 

I just don’t know if I cut McKenzie or put Hodges on the PS for the taking, especially if they are doing as well as smoke said especially in a COVID season.

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Mckenzie

Hodges

 

Mckenzie? and Hyde can be my punt returners. Kickoff isn’t even part of the NFL anymore.

McKenzie, ok, but Roberts is better, but not Hyde as he has to play half of the snaps.  The best part of a spot player who is primarily dedicated to returns and maybe some gadget plays is McKenzie.  Hyde has to play half the game if we are doing it right.  They may be in incredible shape, but are much better when fresh.  So I’ll give you McKenzie if you absolutely 100% think he is equally as good as Roberts without question.  Remember you’re talking about the 6th WR who will never see the field unless there are a bunch of injuries all in one game, or significant injuries or COVID lasting many weeks.

 

A returner to me is like having back up for a LS, K, Punter, or 4th QB.  You don’t want to fall short this year.  I really did listen to you’re argument though.  I hope you know that.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I get it. 3-4 years ago the dude was a stud. He’s going on 32 years old.

 

His punt return avg last year was 7.9 yards a return. Longest return was 22 yards, 0 TDs.... That’s half of what he did in 2018. I just don’t see the guy as a LOCK like some....

 

I just don’t know if I cut McKenzie or put Hodges on the PS for the taking, especially if they are doing as well as smoke said especially in a COVID season.

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Mckenzie

Hodges

 

Mckenzie? and Hyde can be my punt returners. Kickoff isn’t even part of the NFL anymore.

 

Robert's had the 9th highest punt return average and didn't muff a single punt. He is still a very good steady returner. One muff punt can cost you a game. Why risk having a shaky return game?

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Robert's had the 9th highest punt return average and didn't muff a single punt. He is still a very good steady returner. One muff punt can cost you a game. Why risk having a shaky return game?

Yup- especially for guys that won’t start...

[Poleshifter]

On 8/10/2020 at 9:27 AM, MAJBobby said:

Buh Bye Duke Williams and Robert Foster

I liked Duke from seeing his play in the CFL. But I think these 2 rookies will win out over Duke and flash-in-the-pan Foster.

 

IIRC, on draft day, Gabe Davis was practicing with friends at UCF. Always working!

 

I am excited to see these 2 guys play.

[Nelius]

Best news I've heard today. Got to love John Brown too, what a vet to have in the room right now. Same with Beasley, Diggs, man. It's really incredible how quickly WR has become a strength for this team. It seemed like a rut we were never going to get out of for so long post-Moulds.

 

Josh and Gabe Davis are going to have a connection this year. You can feel it coming. 

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, eball said:

I don’t remember if this was posted somewhere else but I saw that NFLN’s Cynthia Brelund ranked the Bills’ WR room 5th in the league. Only the Saints, Cowboys, Chiefs, and Bucs were higher. 

 

We are certainly in that top 5 conversation. Still think you have to throw the Texans in there too. Yes, they lost DHop, and they lack a true #1 type but I think they have a couple of 1B types in Cooks and Fuller plus two good #2 receivers in Kenny Stills and Randall Cobb. 

[eball]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We are certainly in that top 5 conversation. Still think you have to throw the Texans in there too. Yes, they lost DHop, and they lack a true #1 type but I think they have a couple of 1B types in Cooks and Fuller plus two good #2 receivers in Kenny Stills and Randall Cobb. 

 

Brelund had Houston ranked really low...like in the low teens.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Brelund had Houston ranked really low...like in the low teens.

 

I disagree with that. I think they lack that elite guy now, sure, but not convinced there is anyone else in the NFL who is 4 deep with guys who are at worst legit #2 receivers. Her model must value having a proven true #1 very highly.  That said, while 2019 wasn't his best year (can say that for the whole Rams offense and their whiz kid HC-OC) Brandin Cooks did have 4 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons prior to that.

[Putin]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:53 AM, Mountain Man said:

Sounds like they are ready to take Duke Williams roster spot. His social media fans won't be happy. 

But , but can they block like Duke ? 
 

[GunnerBill]

I've actually just watched her full list... and while I think she has the Bills ranked in pretty much the right spot...... whoa the rest of the list is bad.

 

She actually has Houston at #28  behind such receiver havens as the Bears, the Eagles and the Giants. I mean seriously..... if that is the model it is, well, broken. She also has a couple of teams way too high.

 

The Colts are @ #13..... I think people generally just seem too high on the Colts this offseason but the thirteenth best receiver corps? Seriously? Come on lady. Their leading receiver last year was a former UDFA name Zach Pascal who isn't even a household name in his own household and had been cut from two practice squads before landing with the Colts. He had 600 yards. TY Hilton only played 10 games but had only 500 yards in them and looked noticeably slower than in the past. I do like Michael Pittman out of USC but it is a big ask for him as a rookie to turn that group into a top half of the league unit and he is the only proper addition. She has the Steelers @ #12.... now while I confess it was hard to judge them fairly last year as the QB play ranged from middling to downright awful but JJ Smith-Schuster did not look the same player without the best receiver in football opposite him and James Washington was okay but not special. Chase Claypool is on the roster now but he is a project.

 

It's not a great list tbh. But I repeat I do agree with her that the Bills are there or thereabout the top 5 when you look at the 1,2,3 punch.

[ExWNYer]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I've actually just watched her full list... and while I think she has the Bills ranked in pretty much the right spot...... whoa the rest of the list is bad.

 

She actually has Houston at #28  behind such receiver havens as the Bears, the Eagles and the Giants. I mean seriously..... if that is the model it is, well, broken. She also has a couple of teams way too high.

 

The Colts are @ #13..... I think people generally just seem too high on the Colts this offseason but the thirteenth best receiver corps? Seriously? Come on lady. Their leading receiver last year was a former UDFA name Zach Pascal who isn't even a household name in his own household and had been cut from two practice squads before landing with the Colts. He had 600 yards. TY Hilton only played 10 games but had only 500 yards in them and looked noticeably slower than in the past. I do like Michael Pittman out of USC but it is a big ask for him as a rookie to turn that group into a top half of the league unit and he is the only proper addition. She has the Steelers @ #12.... now while I confess it was hard to judge them fairly last year as the QB play ranged from middling to downright awful but JJ Smith-Schuster did not look the same player without the best receiver in football opposite him and James Washington was okay but not special. Chase Claypool is on the roster now but he is a project.

 

It's not a great list tbh. But I repeat I do agree with her that the Bills are there or thereabout the top 5 when you look at the 1,2,3 punch.

 

How do you leave Diontae Johnson out of that group? He has a chance to be the best of the lot.

 

I'm not arguing for or against Frelund's rankings. She is a numbers cruncher and every thing she does, including her game day picks are strictly from an analytics perspective. She admits that she is not analyzing from an Xs and Os viewpoint. Her analysis adds a unique perspective at times but a lot of it can be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

How do you leave Diontae Johnson out of that group? He has a chance to be the best of the lot.

 

I'm not arguing for or against Frelund's rankings. She is a numbers cruncher and every thing she does, including her game day picks are strictly from an analytics perspective. She admits that she is not analyzing from an Xs and Os viewpoint. Her analysis adds a unique perspective at times but a lot of it can be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.

 

I know who she is and what she does but I'd like to see the model that supports these rankings. Because some of them are beyond belief frankly. If the Colts end up with the 13th most yards by wide receivers this season I will dress as Cynthia Freelund and post the picture on TSW. There is absolutely no chance.

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know who she is and what she does but I'd like to see the model that supports these rankings. Because some of them are beyond belief frankly. If the Colts end up with the 13th most yards by wide receivers this season I will dress as Cynthia Freelund and post the picture on TSW. There is absolutely no chance.

 

Again, I take her with a grain of salt. My commentary on her was more of an afterthought. I was asking why you failed to mention the Steelers' Diontae Johnson when assessing their WR room. Whether intentional or not, it was a glaring omission. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

Again, I take her with a grain of salt. My commentary on her was more of an afterthought. I was asking why you failed to mention the Steelers' Diontae Johnson when assessing their WR room. Whether intentional or not, it was a glaring omission. 

 

Yea I like Johnson, but he is mainly their slot guy. Wasn't an intentional omission as such but I'm not as sold that it is a glaring one. I have less truck with the Steelers than the Colts... the Steelers are a few spots too high for me. I'd have them more in the 15-18 range. The Colts on the other hand are like 10 spots too high.

[ExWNYer]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I like Johnson, but he is mainly their slot guy. Wasn't an intentional omission as such but I'm not as sold that it is a glaring one. I have less truck with the Steelers than the Colts... the Steelers are a few spots too high for me. I'd have them more in the 15-18 range. The Colts on the other hand are like 10 spots too high.

 

Fair enough. Pittsburgh has done a very good job of drafting and developing WRs over the years. Johnson is the next of those, IMO. We'll see. Unfortunately, this year may not be a fair evaluation for any young receiver.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:35 PM, TigerJ said:

My post was not intended to say Hodgins can't be a successful NFL receiver.  I was just reminding posters how he was viewed before he was drafted.  Hodgins, by the way,  was said to have terrific hands.  

 

Didtn't Zay Jones supposedly have terrific hands in college?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Didtn't Zay Jones supposedly have terrific hands in college?

 

He was supposed to have.  Didn't he break the college football record for receptions by a WR?

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He was supposed to have.  Didn't he break the college football record for receptions by a WR?

 Yes he did, good lesson.... never know how a player will transition from college to pros.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Colts are @ #13..... I think people generally just seem too high on the Colts this offseason.

 

Now I'm going off track, but I was struck by this, because I've had the same sense.  It seems like every time I see the Colts mentioned somewhere, it comes with more praise than I think makes sense. 

 

I do have one possible explanation for this phenomenon.  If the Colts actually deserve this optimism about them, I think it may be deserved for one reason:  Frank Reich.  From what I've seen and heard, which isn't a lot, Reich seems to be a positive, detailed oriented process guy much like McDermott.  The bottom line for the "process" is that the whole package is greater than the sum of its parts.  If the Colts turn out to be really good this season, it won't be because they have great talent.  It will be because they have good talent, everyone knows their job, and they play their hearts out. 

 

Like the Bills.  

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Now I'm going off track, but I was struck by this, because I've had the same sense.  It seems like every time I see the Colts mentioned somewhere, it comes with more praise than I think makes sense. 

 

I do have one possible explanation for this phenomenon.  If the Colts actually deserve this optimism about them, I think it may be deserved for one reason:  Frank Reich.  From what I've seen and heard, which isn't a lot, Reich seems to be a positive, detailed oriented process guy much like McDermott.  The bottom line for the "process" is that the whole package is greater than the sum of its parts.  If the Colts turn out to be really good this season, it won't be because they have great talent.  It will be because they have good talent, everyone knows their job, and they play their hearts out. 

 

Like the Bills.  

 

Yep. I love the Colts FO and coaching. Chris Ballard is a terrific young GM, Frank Reich is a level headed sensible coach and Matt Elberflus is one of the most underrated defensive coordinators in the league. 

 

I just don't know that they have that much talent. Their oline is terrific, Darius Leonard is a stud and Malik Hooker is a good football player. Deforest Buckner is a good player too and they did need a stud up front but he isn't quite the dominant player they may think he is in my opinion. I liked the Taylor and Pittman picks but they still have the same issues at corner (Xavier Rhodes who sucked heavily in Minnesota is hardly a fix) they are still heavily reliant on Justin Houston at age 31 on the edge and their offensive weaponary aside from the two draft pick is pretty pedestrian. 

 

I don't think they suck. I do have them as slight favourites to win the South (not a great division) but I remember them outplaying Houston for 3/4s last year only for some individual brilliance from Watson to beat them. I worry Rivers is finished and I say that as a big fan of his. His throws were noticeably floating last year and if Houston's defense could hold up (not sure it can) then they will be better than the Colts. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I love the Colts FO and coaching. Chris Ballard is a terrific young GM, Frank Reich is a level headed sensible coach and Matt Elberflus is one of the most underrated defensive coordinators in the league. 

 

I just don't know that they have that much talent. Their oline is terrific, Darius Leonard is a stud and Malik Hooker is a good football player. Deforest Buckner is a good player too and they did need a stud up front but he isn't quite the dominant player they may think he is in my opinion. I liked the Taylor and Pittman picks but they still have the same issues at corner (Xavier Rhodes who sucked heavily in Minnesota is hardly a fix) they are still heavily reliant on Justin Houston at age 31 on the edge and their offensive weaponary aside from the two draft pick is pretty pedestrian. 

 

I don't think they suck. I do have them as slight favourites to win the South (not a great division) but I remember them outplaying Houston for 3/4s last year only for some individual brilliance from Watson to beat them. I worry Rivers is finished and I say that as a big fan of his. His throws were noticeably floating last year and if Houston's defense could hold up (not sure it can) then they will be better than the Colts. 

 

Sounds like the Bill--Texans game

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Sounds like the Bill--Texans game

 

The Colts have some similarity with where the Bills were a year ago IMO except they do not have their QB of the future. 

[CSBill]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:49 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

Well, more confirmation that our GM and Head Coach, and scouting staff, know what their doing.

 

Late round picks with ability, high intelligence, and great character. Process guys! I hope we get to see both of them produce on the field this year.

[CSBill]

On 8/11/2020 at 9:31 AM, No_Matter_What said:

 

Exactly. I recently rewatched whole last season. There were many things which stood out, and one of them was how exceptionally reliable Roberts was. He makes good decisions, catches everything, does not fumble and constantly gains as much as possible from each return. I'd keep him for sure.

 

Agree

[HardyBoy]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know who she is and what she does but I'd like to see the model that supports these rankings. Because some of them are beyond belief frankly. If the Colts end up with the 13th most yards by wide receivers this season I will dress as Cynthia Freelund and post the picture on TSW. There is absolutely no chance.

 

Noted...they need to play at least 12 games in the regular season this year, or this nulls...fair?