GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Sure, you can’t consume alcohol or possess an open container while operating a vehicle. Doesn’t matter if you’re drunk or sober while doing it. So what's an 'open container'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, fansince88 said: He us innocent. End of THAT story. That said, I have someone very close to me that was arrested for a very embarrassing situation that I am not going to get into. After his arrest his accused crime made the news via radio, newspaper, tv and internet. Took him 2.5 years and thousands of dollars to clear his name but will never clear his reputation. We in society too quickly rush to judgement rather then let the case shape out. Just as Ed said, guilty untill proved innocent. Men's bathroom gloryhole?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Sure, you can’t consume alcohol or possess an open container while operating a vehicle. Thanks. Is an empty beer can considered an open container if there is absolutely no evidence that you drank it? It must have fallen out of the bag while I was taking my bottles and cans back, officer. I’d be willing to take a breathalyzer ??♂️ 4 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: I did the same dumb crap that most people in any video do, and that is not complying with a order from the cop. He told me I was being detained for "failure to disperse" and I have not looked if that is an actual law or he was full of crap. But the main problem lies in the culture being taught to today's youth that you can do whatever you want with no reprocessing and that is just not accurate. Reprocessing? That sounds painful ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So what's an 'open container'? This isn’t serious right? 7 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: Thanks. Is an empty beer can considered an open container if there is absolutely no evidence that you drank it? It must have fallen out of the bag while I was taking my bottles and cans back, officer. I’d be willing to take a breathalyzer ??♂️ An empty beer can is technically an open container. If it fell out of a bag of empty cans that you are taking for recycle then I’d imagine common sense would prevail and you won’t have any issues. My advice would be to avoid driving around with empty containers regardless of whether you consumed the alcohol or not. Edited August 10, 2020 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: This isn’t serious right? Imagine my chagrin upon learning that an officer of the law didn't actually know upon what grounds he can and can't arrest someone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: Perhaps I should clarify, merely having empty containers scattered throughout the car isn’t something I’m going to care too much about unless I’m conducting a DWI investigation. I will say something about it though. In fact, I’ve only ever written the open container violation once when it wasn’t a DWI stop. In that case, the guy had just cracked open a cold beer and was trying to hide it between the door and his leg. That's why I always have two cheap garbage bags full of empty cans and bottles with a hole in it in back of my vehicle... Works like a charm every time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: @BringBackFergy care to weigh in as an attorney in NYS? Depends if you are already impaired or intoxicated. I heard stories of guys locking the doors, shutting engine off and throwing keys outside... then chugging a pint of whiskey while the cop watches. Can’t say he was “driving while intoxicated”. Dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said: Depends if you are already impaired or intoxicated. I heard stories of guys locking the doors, shutting engine off and throwing keys outside... then chugging a pint of whiskey while the cop watches. Can’t say he was “driving while intoxicated”. Dumb. You mind if I refer all further questioning to you? NO RETAINER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I wait until the officer asks me for them and tell him everything that I'm doing. The officer asks for DL and registration I say I'm going to grab my registration from the glove box and I'm going to get my DL from my pocket. Very slow moments and being very respectful has gotten me out of my speeding tickets. This is what my brother in law told my to do who was a police officer for 12 years and is now a US Marshall. They trained you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: I did the same dumb crap that most people in any video do, and that is not complying with a order from the cop. He told me I was being detained for "failure to disperse" and I have not looked if that is an actual law or he was full of crap. But the main problem lies in the culture being taught to today's youth that you can do whatever you want with no reprocessing and that is just not accurate. Now there are bad cops and people that abuse that power no doubt. It's more to the point that you got arrested/detained even though you didn't think you were doing anything wrong. Unless there was an issue where they were I don't think you were in the wrong but I'm not a lawyer. I don't believe that most kids are being taught they can do whatever they want. I think they are just learning because of social media that you can get away with a lot because you have proof now and they antagonize law enforcement because they think holding a camera in their face will protect them. I know when my kids get to the age where they can do all this stupid ***** and they think nothing will happen I'm not going to bail them out when they call me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Imagine my chagrin upon learning that an officer of the law didn't actually know upon what grounds he can and can't arrest someone. What are you even talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Depends if you are already impaired or intoxicated. I heard stories of guys locking the doors, shutting engine off and throwing keys outside... then chugging a pint of whiskey while the cop watches. Can’t say he was “driving while intoxicated”. Dumb. I worked with a guy many years ago who was too drunk to get his key in the ignition. The keys fell to the floor, and he passed out. The cops came across him and told him how lucky he was....if the keys were IN the ignition, he’d go to jail. They were on the floor, so they gave him a ride home. He’s apparently got his act together now, but being arrested that night would have changed his life and (very specific) career options in many ways. Life’s little twists and turns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bangarang said: What are you even talking about? I wanted some clarity on this comment from earlier- 5 hours ago, Bangarang said: It doesn’t matter what the can was used for. An open alcohol container, empty or not, is still against the law, at least in NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, Bangarang said: This isn’t serious right? An empty beer can is technically an open container. If it fell out of a bag of empty cans that you are taking for recycle then I’d imagine common sense would prevail and you won’t have any issues. My advice would be to avoid driving around with empty containers regardless of whether you consumed the alcohol or not. So don't recycle. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: Men's bathroom gloryhole?! Wide stance... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I wanted some clarity on this comment from earlier- How much clearer can I make it? Do you really not know what an open container of alcohol is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: How much clearer can I make it? Do you really not know what an open container of alcohol is? The drinking of alcoholic beverages, or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage, in a motor vehicle located upon the public highways or right-of-way public highway is prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Yes. That is how police encounters work. Under any circumstance, you have to comply. If you do not, the police will use the appropriate amount of force to achieve compliance. Once force is introduced, the situation becomes unpredictable and you risk serious injury and/or death. That is true regardless of race, and the suggestion that it is "odd" that failure to comply could result in serious injury is absurd. Does anyone really believe they can say "no" to the police? Yes, of course I believe that I can say no to the police. Would you let them into your house without a warrant? Would you let them search your trunk without a warrant? You have rights, and as much as they try to act like it, they aren't Kings or deities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: So don't recycle. Got it. Put it in the trunk. That’s what we do if we have a bottle of wine out with dinner and don’t finish it, or take a bottle to a party to make daiquiris or after dinner drinks, etc. Restaurants also have some kind of bag to seal up the bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, GoBills808 said: The drinking of alcoholic beverages, or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage, in a motor vehicle located upon the public highways or right-of-way public highway is prohibited. Which part is confusing to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Yes, of course I believe that I can say no to the police. Would you let them into your house without a warrant? Would you let them search your trunk without a warrant? You have rights, and as much as they try to act like it, they aren't Kings or deities. How tf in this day and age do people not know their rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Augie said: Put it in the trunk. That’s what we do if we have a bottle of wine out with dinner and don’t finish it, or take a bottle to a party to make daiquiris or after dinner drinks, etc. Restaurants also have some kind of bag to seal up the bottles. So your container has alcohol in it..which would be a problem. The open container can't have alcohol in it. Now you know..and knowing is half the battle. Edited August 10, 2020 by jeremy2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: Which part is confusing to you? The part where you think an empty beer can somehow contain an alcoholic beverage Officer Schroedinger 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: So you're container has alcohol in it..which would be a problem. I live in Texas. There is no Texas law about just a container. The open container can't have alcohol in it. When we lived in SC, the law was if you couldn’t have access to drink WHILE you drive, you were OK. Put partial bottles or recycling in the trunk so they know you’re not hitting on that bottle as you drive. Also, it’s just less likely to even be discovered and become an issue. Take as many steps as possible to to avoid the question entirely. As is often the case, show some common sense and you’re probably (but not ALWAYS) going to be OK. . Edited August 10, 2020 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: The part where you think an empty beer can somehow contain an alcoholic beverage Officer Schroedinger I literally gave you the section and wording of the violation in NY VTL and you’re still spewing nonsense. You’re beyond helping at this point. Your mind deeply buried in the sand. Edited August 10, 2020 by Bangarang 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: How tf in this day and age do people not know their rights Because most people don't question information they're given if they trust the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: I literally gave you the section and wording of the violation in NY VTL and you’re still spewing nonsense. you’re beyond helping at this point. Your mind deeply buried in the sand. I think the problem is that you originally stated that the empty can is a violation. Now, as proof of that, you are providing wording that does not support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SWATeam said: I think the problem is that you originally stated that the empty can is a violation. Now, as proof of that, you are providing wording that does not support. Maybe he's been filling his quota staking out the recycling center. Edited August 10, 2020 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I literally gave you the section and wording of the violation in NY VTL and you’re still spewing nonsense. You’re beyond helping at this point. Your mind deeply buried in the sand. You gave the law, NY VTL 1227(1). Of course, you didn't actually give the text of the law which doesn't help your interpretation. https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/VAT/1227#:~:text=1.,guilty of a traffic infraction. Consumption or possession of alcoholic beverages in certain motor vehicles. 1. The drinking of alcoholic beverages, or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage, in a motor vehicle located upon the public highways or right-of-way public highway is prohibited. Any operator or passenger violating this section shall be guilty of a traffic infraction. The provisions of this section shall not be deemed to prohibit the drinking of alcoholic beverages or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage by passengers in passenger vehicles operated pursuant to a certificate or permit issued by the department of transportation or the United States department of transportation. Furthermore, the provisions of this section shall not be deemed to prohibit the possession of wine which is: (a) resealed in accordance with the provisions of subdivision four of section eighty-one of the alcoholic beverage control law; and (b) is transported in the vehicle's trunk or is transported behind the last upright seat or in an area not normally occupied by the driver or passenger in a motor vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk. Edited August 10, 2020 by jeremy2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Augie said: When we lived in SC, the law was if you couldn’t have access to drink WHILE you drive, you were OK. Put partial bottles or recycling in the trunk so they know you’re not hitting on that bottle as you drive. Also, it’s just less likely to even be discovered and become an issue. Take as many steps as possible to to avoid the question entirely. As is often the case, show some common sense and you’re probably (but not ALWAYS) going to be OK. It's not a citizen's responsibility to prevent any appearance of possibly violating a law. It is simply to follow the law. In no way, do you have to ensure the police 'don't get the wrong idea'. It is an officer's responsibility to discern whether a law has actually been broken (despite a couple court rulings saying an officer ignorant of the actual law acting in 'good faith' is justified). Now, you can say it's common sense not to have an empty can somewhere within reach of the driver to make it easier for police to discern the situation. That's an open debate, but appearance of impropriety does not violate the law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: You gave the law, NY VTL 1227(1). Of course, you didn't actually give the text of the law which doesn't help your interpretation. https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/VAT/1227#:~:text=1.,guilty of a traffic infraction. Consumption or possession of alcoholic beverages in certain motor vehicles. 1. The drinking of alcoholic beverages, or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage, in a motor vehicle located upon the public highways or right-of-way public highway is prohibited. Any operator or passenger violating this section shall be guilty of a traffic infraction. The provisions of this section shall not be deemed to prohibit the drinking of alcoholic beverages or the possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage by passengers in passenger vehicles operated pursuant to a certificate or permit issued by the department of transportation or the United States department of transportation. Furthermore, the provisions of this section shall not be deemed to prohibit the possession of wine which is: (a) resealed in accordance with the provisions of subdivision four of section eighty-one of the alcoholic beverage control law; and (b) is transported in the vehicle's trunk or is transported behind the last upright seat or in an area not normally occupied by the driver or passenger in a motor vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk. So here's why Bangarang incorrectly thinks this is the law and why people like JoshAllenHasBigHands thinks that police can do whatever they want - they get away with it. It's not the law, clearly, but when they charge you for it you either have bigger problems, like a DUI, or that's it and you get a $200 fine. In the case of the DUI, the open container is moot, and your lawyer isn't going to waste time on it. In the case of it not being a DUI, how many people are going to fight a small fine where they'll need a lawyer? Even though you have rights, when you let cops interpret what they think the law is, and you don't challenge them on it, those rights go away in effect. Edited August 10, 2020 by BullBuchanan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Yes, of course I believe that I can say no to the police. Would you let them into your house without a warrant? Would you let them search your trunk without a warrant? You have rights, and as much as they try to act like it, they aren't Kings or deities. So you’re saying all police act like Kings and Gods? You’re part of the problem, the country is waking up to dangers of your viewpoint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, HamSandwhich said: So you’re saying all police act like Kings and Gods? You’re part of the problem, the country is waking up to dangers of your viewpoint. I think you have that backwards. See me after class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said: So you’re saying all police act like Kings and Gods? You’re part of the problem, the country is waking up to dangers of your viewpoint. Did you make a typo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: It's not a citizen's responsibility to prevent any appearance of possibly violating a law. It is simply to follow the law. In no way, do you have to ensure the police 'don't get the wrong idea'. It is an officer's responsibility to discern whether a law has actually been broken (despite a couple court rulings saying an officer ignorant of the actual law acting in 'good faith' is justified). Now, you can say it's common sense not to have an empty can somewhere within reach of the driver to make it easier for police to discern the situation. That's an open debate, but appearance of impropriety does not violate the law. As I said, that WAS THE LAW during our time in SC (after it changed from legal open containers). If you want to argue your point with the police and tell them how you have the right and there’s nothing they can do about it, please feel free to take that on unnecessary battle and I’ll wish you all the best. Cops love getting challenged. Toss that half empty bottle of Jack Daniels in the back seat and try to argue that you couldn’t reach it from the driver’s seat. Common sense is not that common. My question is: WHY? Why not take the easy route? Just put it in the trunk and don’t run the risk of fighting that unnecessary battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: I think you have that backwards. See me after class. An informed citizenry is clearly the problem, we are much better served by law enforcement not knowing the law is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: So here's why Bangarang incorrectly thinks this is the law and why people like JoshAllenHasBigHands thinks that police can do whatever they want - they get away with it. It's not the law, clearly, but when they charge you for it you either have bigger problems, like a DUI, or that's it and you get a $200 fine. In the case of the DUI, the open container is moot, and your lawyer isn't going to waste time on it. In the case of it not being a DUI, how many people are going to fight a small fine where they'll need a lawyer? Even though you have rights, when you let cops interpret what they think the law is, and you don't challenge them on it, those rights go away in effect. Anyone can challenge the law but it needs to be done inappropriately. There’s a reason why a lot of those videos you see start and end when the “victim” is being “victimized”. They don’t want you to see what happened leading up to that point as it won’t look good for the “victim” mentality they want to sow. A little respect for authority is needed, you can have your day in court. At the point of being pulled over or being stopped by a cop is not the time to act belligerent. They’d like to go home to their families and kids too and they don’t know what you’re going to do if you’re being belligerent and will act to pacify a threat, rightfully so. Be respectful, nothing will happen to you. Is it that hard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said: Anyone can challenge the law but it needs to be done inappropriately. There’s a reason why a lot of those videos you see start and end when the “victim” is being “victimized”. They don’t want you to see what happened leading up to that point as it won’t look good for the “victim” mentality they want to sow. A little respect for authority is needed, you can have your day in court. At the point of being pulled over or being stopped by a cop is not the time to act belligerent. They’d like to go home to their families and kids too and they don’t know what you’re going to do if you’re being belligerent and will act to pacify a threat, rightfully so. Be respectful, nothing will happen to you. Is it that hard? Did Ed look disrespectful to you? Yet he was carted off for a night in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: Did you make a typo? What? Diety aka a God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, SWATeam said: Did Ed look disrespectful to you? Yet he was carted off for a night in jail Shut up and comply, peasant! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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