Report: Bills we’re taking Dugger at 54 if he was there

[Mountain Man]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Additionally, they tried to trade up for Duvernay. 

I can't see it. They would have to do a New Orleans and chuck in their remaining draft. 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Anyone that talks with this much conviction you just can't believe. 

 

This regime is as tight lipped as I have ever seen, I just don't see some random guy knowing all this information.

 

Well let's say @Kirby Jackson is not just some random guy and when he has brought information to this board before it has been accurate. When Kirby says something I believe him.

[Mountain Man]

2 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

If they were so dead set on Dugger at 54, why wouldn’t they have drafted Jeremy Chinn who was still there at our pick? Similar players except Chinn is much younger. I don’t buy it.

Because just because 2 players played for small schools in a similar position doesn't mean team value them the same

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When you say he was the guy Kirbs...... do you mean he was the guy they had zeroed in on as being most likely available at their spot pre-draft who they wanted? I mean when you first pick is at #54 that is a pretty big set of assumptions because who knows who falls or whatever. Or are you saying you have information that if Dugger had been there and the rest of the board fell exactly as it did (with let's say Jeremy Chinn as the Pats pick) then he would have been the pick over AJ?

Going into Friday they were planning on Dugger. They were willing to move up for Dugger as I understand it. They didn’t have the ammo to get that high. When he came off the board at 37 they changed course. If he was still there at 45 though (as an example) I think that he would have been the pick.

[Mountain Man]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well let's say @Kirby Jackson is not just some random guy and when he has brought information to this board before it has been accurate. When Kirby says something I believe him.

That may be. But to trade up Duvernay is one that sounds a bit doubtful. You are trading up 30+ picks. That's a lot of draft capital

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Going into Friday they were planning on Dugger. They were willing to move up for Dugger as I understand it. They didn’t have the ammo to get that high. When he came off the board at 37 they changed course. If he was still there at 45 though (as an example) I think that he would have been the pick.

 

Okay. So it was as the board was stacked Friday morning after the first round he was their guy. Interesting. Appreciate the clarification.

[BillsShredder83]

13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

If you’re newer to the board then this is worth repeating:

 

There are absolutely, definitely posters on this board that have insight into what the front office is doing and thinking. It has been proven on many occasions.

 

Sometimes they “report” such things in subtle ways, but if you’re paying attention you notice.
 

Also, not everything that is inside info comes out on this board—a LOT of it gets communicated via PM. That way if (and when) something doesn’t happen people don’t lose their minds. Perfect example is the AJ Green trade that came surprisingly close to happening at last year’s deadline.

dammit i miss everything lurking around here lol let me in the club! What happened with AJ?

[JimKellyTryouts]

13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

If you’re newer to the board then this is worth repeating:

 

There are absolutely, definitely posters on this board that have insight into what the front office is doing and thinking. It has been proven on many occasions.

 

Sometimes they “report” such things in subtle ways, but if you’re paying attention you notice.
 

Also, not everything that is inside info comes out on this board—a LOT of it gets communicated via PM. That way if (and when) something doesn’t happen people don’t lose their minds. Perfect example is the AJ Green trade that came surprisingly close to happening at last year’s deadline.

 

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, but I definitely get curious when members on this board that are in the loop say things with such strong conviction

 

What would have been the AJ Green offer?

 

 

[Mountain Man]

14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Also, not everything that is inside info comes out on this board—a LOT of it gets communicated via PM. That way if (and when) something doesn’t happen people don’t lose their minds. Perfect example is the AJ Green trade that came surprisingly close to happening at last year’s deadline.

That's sounds great, if you choose to believe it. The world is full of people claiming to know things. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

That may be. But to trade up Duvernay is one that sounds a bit doubtful. You are trading up 30+ picks. That's a lot of draft capital

 

@Kirby Jackson has said it and separately @thebandit27 has said. I would believe either of them individually, when they are both saying it I definitely believe it.

 

The fact it didn't happen might speak to exactly your point though, right? They couldn't find a deal that they were willing to do?

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

That may be. But to trade up Duvernay is one that sounds a bit doubtful. You are trading up 30+ picks. That's a lot of draft capital

 

Couple things in play here...

 

Could be they werent trying to move up 30+ picks, but rather 10-20 if he was still there. Then he went off the board at 92 and that was the end of that.

 

Also, could be that they were willing to trade the rest of their picks (4, 5, 6, 6, 7) to move up to get him. There arent that many open roster spots on the team as it is, and a few of us had already been knocking around the idea of staying put at 54 and 86, then cashing in for one more guy, and walking away with 3 picks who could all contribute right away.

 

Not impossible.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

@Kirby Jackson has said it and separately @thebandit27 has said. I would believe either of them individually, when they are both saying it I definitely believe it.

 

The fact it didn't happen might speak to exactly your point though, right? They couldn't find a deal that they were willing to do?

I believe too that’s why when a possible trade out got out there Beane said it was for an OL. I don’t know if that was true but know that Duvernay was. It would be pretty awkward if they tried to trade up for Duvernay, couldn’t, and then took Davis with the next pick. It’s a lot cleaner to just say an OL since they didn’t draft one.  
 

**The reasoning that Beane said an OL is speculation in my part but it makes sense.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Mountain Man]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

@Kirby Jackson has said it and separately @thebandit27 has said. I would believe either of them individually, when they are both saying it I definitely believe it.

 

The fact it didn't happen might speak to exactly your point though, right? They couldn't find a deal that they were willing to do?

That's fine. People can claim it, and people have a right to believe it. 

 

Equally people have a right to be a bit cynical that the Bills were about jump up 30+ spots for a WR in a deep WR class where they had already used their 1st,and multiple day 3 picks on a WR. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

That's sounds great, if you choose to believe it. The world is full of people claiming to know things. 

 

Here's the most beautiful thing about this board. It isnt just a bunch of random, anonymous posters you'd find on reddit or in the comments section of youtube.

 

Most of us know each other off board as well. Tailgate with each other, etc. So we know who the people claiming to know things are, and how well they are connected.

[Mountain Man]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Couple things in play here...

 

Could be they werent trying to move up 30+ picks, but rather 10-20 if he was still there. Then he went off the board at 92 and that was the end of that.

 

Also, could be that they were willing to trade the rest of their picks (4, 5, 6, 6, 7) to move up to get him. There arent that many open roster spots on the team as it is, and a few of us had already been knocking around the idea of staying put at 54 and 86, then cashing in for one more guy, and walking away with 3 picks who could all contribute right away.

 

Not impossible.

You're right, it isn't impossible. 

 

But in terms of whether I think its likely? 

 

For a team in recent years that has had huge success with day 3 picks. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Mountain Man said:

That's fine. People can claim it, and people have a right to believe it. 

 

Equally people have a right to be a bit cynical that the Bills were about jump up 30+ spots for a WR in a deep WR class where they had already used their 1st,and multiple day 3 picks on a WR. 

Duvernay would have been the Bills 3rd player taken. This would have been after Moss and before Davis. Basically, they likely would have had Duvernay instead of a few of the guys that they took after including both receivers.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I believe too that’s why when a possible trade out got out there Beane said it was for an OL. I don’t know if that was true but know that Duvernay was. It would be pretty awkward if they tried to trade up for Duvernay, couldn’t, and then took Davis with the next pick. It’s a lot cleaner to just say an OL since they didn’t draft one.  
 

**The reasoning that Beane said an OL is speculation in my part but it makes sense.

 

But the OL comment was made specifically on day 3. He said it in his day 3 wrap up as well as on the media the next day. Which makes me think the two are totally separate because Duvernay went late day 2. I think they tried to get up again on Saturday for an OL in the 5th or 6th round and got gazumped and he felt more comfortable mentioning that because hey, it's day 3 and because he didn't take an OL so as you say nobody's nose is out of joint. I think the Duvernay deal was separate but he just kept that one totally quiet.

[Mountain Man]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Here's the most beautiful thing about this board. It isnt just a bunch of random, anonymous posters you'd find on reddit or in the comments section of youtube.

 

Most of us know each other off board as well. Tailgate with each other, etc. So we know who the people claiming to know things are, and how well they are connected.

That's fine. You can believe it. That's your right. Doesn't mean everyone has to. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

I also have it on good authority that we would have taken Chase Young at 54 if he had been there. Sadly, we will never know...

[Back2Buff]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I can confirm this one too. Dugger was the guy. They had even talked about trading up for him.

 

This was a weird year for the usually airtight Bills. The virtual draft had more info slipping out than usual. Additionally, they tried to trade up for Duvernay. 

 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/28/bills-appeared-to-be-trying-to-trade-up-for-lions-pick-logan-stenberg/

 

So you are incorrect about the Duvernay but everyone says just believe you on Duggar?

[Mountain Man]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Duvernay would have been the Bills 3rd player taken. This would have been after Moss and before Davis. Basically, they likely would have had Duvernay instead of a few of the guys that they took after including both receivers.

That's plausible. But equally there were no doubt a number of players in the same position. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Mountain Man said:

You're right, it isn't impossible. 

 

But in terms of whether I think its likely? 

 

For a team in recent years that has had huge success with day 3 picks. 

 

But we dont have the roster space for day 3 picks this year. Even on the practice squad.

 

Walking away with 3 highly talented players who can all immediately contribute would have been a huge win.

 

I agree it would have been unlikely to pull off, but I like the strategy and the idea makes sense for the way the roster is currently built.

[Big Gun]

Maybe the Bills slipped the Dugger thing out on purpose in hopes the Pats would bite, but really had Epenesa as the target the whole time. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

That's fine. You can believe it. That's your right. Doesn't mean everyone has to. 

 

Sure, but dont come in and naysay us like we dont know each other well.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Mountain Man said:

That's plausible. But equally there were no doubt a number of players in the same position. 

Certainly and they took one shortly thereafter and another later. I’m not saying that it was a good idea, bad idea or whatever. That’s just what @thebandit27 and I both heard independently of each other. Honestly, I was a little hesitant to post that because it was from someone plugged in but different than the people that usually talk. When Bandit said he’d heard the same thing I’m fairly certain that it was true. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Back2Buff said:

 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/28/bills-appeared-to-be-trying-to-trade-up-for-lions-pick-logan-stenberg/

 

So you are incorrect about the Duvernay but everyone says just believe you on Duggar?

 

Or Duvernay and the OL were two totally different attempted trade ups. That is my view. Has been since Saturday. I don't think Beane was talking about Duvernay when he talked about trying to get an OL. I think he legitimately was trying to get up for an OL on the 3rd day in round 5 or 6.

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

dammit i miss everything lurking around here lol let me in the club! What happened with AJ?

 

11 minutes ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

 

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, but I definitely get curious when members on this board that are in the loop say things with such strong conviction

 

What would have been the AJ Green offer?

 

 

I don’t know what the compensation would have been, but I do know that AJ would’ve been a Bill if Mike Brown didn’t pull the plug on a deal that Duke Tobin worked on with Buffalo.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the OL comment was made specifically on day 3. He said it in his day 3 wrap up as well as on the media the next day. Which makes me think the two are totally separate because Duvernay went late day 2. I think they tried to get up again on Saturday for an OL in the 5th or 6th round and got gazumped and he felt more comfortable mentioning that because hey, it's day 3 and because he didn't take an OL so as you say nobody's nose is out of joint. I think the Duvernay deal was separate but he just kept that one totally quiet.

You might be right. I don’t know the timeline on all of these. That was an assumption on my part.

[Logic]

I actually like hearing that Beane had targets he missed out on and trade-up thoughts that never materialized. My one critique of Beane in past drafts is that he seems to fixate on certain guys he likes, and he was a little trade-up happy. I’m all for targeting specific players if you have a conviction, but it’s nice to see that he can also just stay put and get good players at plus value with his original picks.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/28/bills-appeared-to-be-trying-to-trade-up-for-lions-pick-logan-stenberg/

 

So you are incorrect about the Duvernay but everyone says just believe you on Duggar?

FWIW, I trust my sources and intel at OBD over pro football talk.

 

Look, I’m not telling you to believe. I honestly don’t care (at all). That’s totally up to you.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don’t know what the compensation would have been, but I do know that AJ would’ve been a Bill if Mike Brown didn’t pull the plug on a deal that Duke Tobin worked on with Buffalo.

 

I am so glad now that didn't happen. As you know I was sceptical about going for AJ at the time. I do think you are gonna see the foot cause him to miss games again next year or to at the very least reduce his impact. I almost don't care whether it was AJ for a 5th round pick.... if we had done that deal they almost certainly don't trade for Diggs and at this point I think Diggs is not only a better long term bet but a better bet for right now.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am so glad now that didn't happen. As you know I was sceptical about going for AJ at the time. I do think you are gonna see the foot cause him to miss games again next year or to at the very least reduce his impact. I almost don't care whether it was AJ for a 5th round pick.... if we had done that deal they almost certainly don't trade for Diggs and at this point I think Diggs is not only a better long term bet but a better bet for right now.

 

I want nothing to do with Green at this point of his career.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[TigerJ]

That's not a prediction anyone could have made with absolute certainty unless Dugger were at the very top of Buffalo's big board, which is impossible in the real world.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, TigerJ said:

That's not a prediction anyone could have made with absolute certainty unless Dugger were at the very top of Buffalo's big board, which is impossible in the real world.  

 

He was at the top of their board when they re-stacked after round 1. That is the point and sounds plausible to me.

[bigK14094]

Both dugger and Epp will  be good pros imho.

[Lurker]

28 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/28/bills-appeared-to-be-trying-to-trade-up-for-lions-pick-logan-stenberg/

 

So you are incorrect about the Duvernay but everyone says just believe you on Duggar?

 

What?    So Ryan Talbot speculates in an article for the Syracuse newpaper ("Those comments make me think that Stenberg could have been in play for Buffalo"), his story get's picked up by PFT and suddenly they become CORRECT or a FACT?     Making Kirby's Duvernay information INCORRECT?   

 

Climb aboard.  There's plently of room left on my 'ignore user' wagon...

 

[Back2Buff]

27 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

What?    So Ryan Talbot speculates in an article for the Syracuse newpaper ("Those comments make me think that Stenberg could have been in play for Buffalo"), his story get's picked up by PFT and suddenly they become CORRECT or a FACT?     Making Kirby's Duvernay information INCORRECT?   

 

Climb aboard.  There's plently of room left on my 'ignore user' wagon...

 

 

Talbot is going off of comments from the GM, what is Kirby going off of?  Certainly nothing is better than the GMs mouth.

[HappyDays]

I feel like they were also originally targeting a WR in round 2 because Beane said after the draft he would have "lost a bet" that a round 2 graded receiver would still be there at pick 54. So they had their eye on a couple receivers with round 2 grades but all were gone by the time they picked. I would guess Shenault and Pittman and Higgins, maybe Claypool too. If the Dugger information is true I would bet one of those receivers was the second target. Epenesa was the next best thing.

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am so glad now that didn't happen. As you know I was sceptical about going for AJ at the time. I do think you are gonna see the foot cause him to miss games again next year or to at the very least reduce his impact. I almost don't care whether it was AJ for a 5th round pick.... if we had done that deal they almost certainly don't trade for Diggs and at this point I think Diggs is not only a better long term bet but a better bet for right now.

 

Agreed, and this goes back to one of my comments at the start of the thread about how sometimes the best things that happen to us, are the things that DON'T happen as we hoped. This, is a good example. Sometimes we become so fixated on one particular solution we miss an opportunity for something better and presuming bandit's account is accurate (that's no shade bandit) then I prefer Diggs for a 1st over AJ for a 5th simply b/c the Bills got Diggs healthy and under a very fair contract while he's only 26. Plus, the Bills still took a promising young WR in Davis and a potential steal in Hodgins. Not to mention a potential long-term viable #2 QB with terrific collegiate experience and resume with a 5th round pick. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Is it really that hard to believe that every time a player starts to stick out on Beane's board he starts calling teams about trades? We literally had a thread dedicated to how often he has traded up...

 

I'm sure at the start of day 2 Dugger was very high on our board. Maybe #1, or maybe just the highest that would realistically get into striking range. I'm sure that OBD liked Duvernay and checked with some teams at the back end of round 3 to see what it would cost. And I know that we had a deal in place to get to 183 if the right player fell, but he did not.

 

There were probably others too. I know we ultimately didn't move around this draft, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.