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Do we have the Deepest D-Line in the league?

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3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Not an answer to OP, but isn't it like 99% sure that someone gets traded until W1? There is not a reasonable way how to keep 10 DL on a roster, is it?

 

No. I think Murphy gets flipped. 

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4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Not an answer to OP, but isn't it like 99% sure that someone gets traded until W1? There is not a reasonable way how to keep 10 DL on a roster, is it?

 

There is no reason to get rid of anyone yet. Injuries happen, and usually do, so it's good to have the depth, until you don't. 😁

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1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Exactly. Most people knew nothing about Jefferson, Butler, Addison before we signed them. On another team we would not be talking about them being the best DL. They come hear and clearly they are awesome. It is the nature of being a fan. 


I don’t know much about Butler,  but I definitely knew of Addison and Jefferson... those two are damn good players.  

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Posted (edited)

Buffalo's DL depth largely is geared toward stopping the run and less so rushing the passer.  Of those players on the roster, Hughes, Oliver, (EDIT: Addison) and perhaps Murphy are the guys who might regularly get to the QB.  The rest are either unproven or not pass rushers.  

 

The key to good defense now is getting impact plays like sacks, INT's and fumble recoveries, not being strong against the run.  Buffalo collected 14 INTs, 9 fumble recoveries, and 44 sacks which combined ranked 11th in the NFL.    

Edited by BillsVet

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4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Buffalo's DL depth largely is geared toward stopping the run and less so rushing the passer.  Of those players on the roster, Hughes, Oliver, (EDIT: Addison) and perhaps Murphy are the guys who might regularly get to the QB.  The rest are either unproven or not pass rushers.  

 

The key to good defense now is getting impact plays like sacks, INT's and fumble recoveries, not being strong against the run.  Buffalo collected 14 INTs, 9 fumble recoveries, and 44 sacks which combined ranked 11th in the NFL.    


Hughes, Oliver, Addison and Epenesa are all pass rushers.  
 

Epenesa didn’t start playing run downs until this past year.  
 

Jefferson had 4 sacks as a rotation piece last year and is a guy the Seahawks fans thought they should pay as they believe he could easily double that number in a bigger role.  

 

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Beane is going to try and trade somebody from this group in August, probably Trent Murphy.  He'll only get a late round pick, but that's better than cutting a guy who will end up playing elsewhere.

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2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Exactly. Most people knew nothing about Jefferson, Butler, Addison before we signed them. On another team we would not be talking about them being the best DL. They come hear and clearly they are awesome. It is the nature of being a fan. 

Exactly. I'm a fan and have been since I was 6 but I've seen my share of moody fans and know how it is----

'Trent Edward's is sooo good and needs to start' turns into 'Captain checkdown needs to go'

 

If people would just give it a season before jumping on or off the wagon they might save themselves a few bucks on a shrink.

 

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I also have to mention the Redskins

 

Chase Young

Ryan Kerrigan

Montez Sweat

Ryan Anderson

Jordan Brailford

Da’Ron Payne

Jonathan Allen

Tim Settle

Matt Ioannidis

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26 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I also have to mention the Redskins

 

Chase Young

Ryan Kerrigan

Montez Sweat

Ryan Anderson

Jordan Brailford

Da’Ron Payne

Jonathan Allen

Tim Settle

Matt Ioannidis

 

Good call that is a really good group. Shame about you know.... the rest of their roster. 🤣

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I would say our DL is more of a Top 7 group.  
 

Going to need Oliver to make a jump and Epenesa to be the real deal in order to become a Top 3 group.  
 

I have faith Hughes and Addison are both going to be very good, but Jefferson, Harry, Butler are all somewhat unknowns in what they’ll bring to the table this year. 

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14 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 
 

Edit: And I really like Phillips and would not count him out, but penciling him in as a starter at the 1 tech on a team with Butler and Star, and coming off a major injury just makes no sense.

Speaking as the ‘Cut Man’, you fought the good fight here. With few evident skills, you stood toe to toe in the middle of the ring throwing haymakers. But ya gotcherazzkicked. Now, sit down, shut up and lemme look at that eye..

13 hours ago, Logic said:


The only thing I agree with is that, due to injury, he won't start right away, and it may take him a while to work back into the rotation.

Other than that, I disagree. Last year, before he got injured, it was clear as day that he was outplaying Star at 1T. I fully believe that, had he not been injured, he was going to overtake the lion's share of reps and the "starter" designation from Star. Not only was he doing his job well and occupying multiple blockers and defending the run well, he was also collapsing the pocket at times and getting great penetration. His injury happening when it did was a real shame.

YOU, Sir, have fighting skills!👊

11 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

No,  it's about quality and there is nothing but average talent on the line. Guys like Murphy making around 10 million do not help at all.

We all feel the same way about your football knowledge and posts. (P.S. it isn’t your $$)

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

Buffalo's DL depth largely is geared toward stopping the run and less so rushing the passer.  Of those players on the roster, Hughes, Oliver, (EDIT: Addison) and perhaps Murphy are the guys who might regularly get to the QB.  The rest are either unproven or not pass rushers.  

 

The key to good defense now is getting impact plays like sacks, INT's and fumble recoveries, not being strong against the run.  Buffalo collected 14 INTs, 9 fumble recoveries, and 44 sacks which combined ranked 11th in the NFL.    

You’re conveniently omitting a key DL stat to further your narrative -and it’s understandable as it doesn’t have one true metric name. Batted balls/Passes knocked down/tipped passes/deflected passes. These don’t show up in standard game stats, but are EVERY bit as important as hurries or incompletions. When they happen on 3rd down, does it matter that you didn’t get a sack, fumble or deep interception? The Bills have routinely been among League leaders in this metric, pushing their merit higher.

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15 hours ago, Logic said:


The only thing I agree with is that, due to injury, he won't start right away, and it may take him a while to work back into the rotation.

Other than that, I disagree. Last year, before he got injured, it was clear as day that he was outplaying Star at 1T. I fully believe that, had he not been injured, he was going to overtake the lion's share of reps and the "starter" designation from Star. Not only was he doing his job well and occupying multiple blockers and defending the run well, he was also collapsing the pocket at times and getting great penetration. His injury happening when it did was a real shame.

I agree, if I recall correctly it wasn’t til he went down that our run defense struggles began last year. 

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17 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 
 

Edit: And I really like Phillips and would not count him out, but penciling him in as a starter at the 1 tech on a team with Butler and Star, and coming off a major injury just makes no sense.

Harrison Phillips, is your ideal defensive tackle rusher on third down in the way Joe Gibbs, structured his Redskins Defense in the 80's and early 90's with how they used Butz and Gathers, line them up over the center use there power on third down to push the offensive guards into the backfield causing the opposing Qb to take deeper steps in the pocket were Ends like Mann and Manley got to sack the Quarterback.

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Lets see how good they are with the new pieces. If you want to crown them, go ahead and crown them. Im excited to see what Epenesa and Oliver look like together.

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We can be as deep as we want, I hope we are tough and play mean. 

Like the Eagles, Ravens, 49er's just to name a few

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9 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

You’re conveniently omitting a key DL stat to further your narrative -and it’s understandable as it doesn’t have one true metric name. Batted balls/Passes knocked down/tipped passes/deflected passes. These don’t show up in standard game stats, but are EVERY bit as important as hurries or incompletions. When they happen on 3rd down, does it matter that you didn’t get a sack, fumble or deep interception? The Bills have routinely been among League leaders in this metric, pushing their merit higher.

 

I look at defense from the standpoint of impact plays: INTs, forced fumbles, and sacks.  You can always debate which events on defense are most important, but swinging the momentum typically comes on defense with those results.  And, it gets the ball into your offense's hands more to score points.    

 

Buffalo didn't lose much talent from their 2019 defense, yet they added 4 DL in the draft and UFA.  To me, that's a lot of resources put into a unit that had already contributed to being 2nd in points allowed.  I don't think the loss of Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson really hurts them significantly.  I also recognize they needed to be replaced, and Epenesa probably fits into the role of base 40 front end.  

 

Still, is that investment likely to contribute to more wins against a more difficult 2020 schedule?  That question will be answered in short order.  

 

In the interim, per Spotrac, Buffalo is investing about 23% of their current cap dollars in the DL.  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/breakdown/  Perhaps they have the flexibility to continue that trend when Tre White, Dawkins, Milano, and Allen come up for contracts in 2020-21 although it's hard to tell because the cap is very flexible.

 

 659644482_ScreenShot2020-04-29at11_06_00AM.thumb.png.9f381b2c47b9f4c629d67b6b37620395.png  

 

The point remains that player investment on defense should be centered on who provides impact plays and of course, on the offense.  That to me is what makes good teams excellent and improves the W-L record.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Eh.  Hughes is a 5 sack player, Addison is at an age where production can fall off a cliff, Star is one dimensional, and Murphy is an average to below average JAG.  I do really like the young guys. Oliver can be a Star and at worst AJ is going to be a very solid starter for a while (I don’t think he’ll ever be an elite rusher but a 7-10 sack guy).  Phillips, who i loved, hasn’t proven a ton yet.  But there is talent but I think it will be a need after the year.

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I think Addison 

On 4/28/2020 at 11:42 AM, hondo in seattle said:

 

Our DL depth is fantastic.  I can't remember a time when it was better.


But let me ask, Addison doesn't start?   The guy's had 39 sacks in the past 4 years.

Ya I was going to reply the same. He's an elite DE, stops run as well. He's going to be tough to keep off the first unit. 

 

But ya , this line is deep and talented.

 

This is the type of DLs u see playing in February. Alot of versatility and nastiness on them. 

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