Josh Allen "Prove it" Season In Year 3

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dude, if Josh threw 100 passes and Dak threw 100 passes, Josh would have one more drop (7) than Dak (6)over those passes. 2 more drops over 200 passes, 3 more drops over 300 more passes etc. So Josh's receivers drop about 1 more pass every 3rd games than Dak's do. 

 

But please continue to condescend the board. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Watkins101 said:

Actually, he was about right. If Josh threw nearly 600 passes, and had 7 more drops, then that's just over 1 more drop for every 100 passes.

You guys are correct, obviously. I misunderstood original question from reddog

[T master]

On 3/23/2020 at 12:31 PM, longtimebillsfan said:

I am a Josh Allen fan.  I believe that he has the physical gifts to be a generational quarterback.  I also am aware of his weaknesses.

 

Now that Josh has one of the best trio starting wide receivers in the league, what does he have to do to show that he is the Bills franchise quarterback?

 

I watched some of the highlights of Diggs last season & a lot of those passes to Diggs are pretty much put on the money or in a place that only Diggs can get the throw Josh will need to be more accurate with Diggs because he is a diva & wants the ball as much as possible so if Josh isn't on his game it could turn ugly quick if Diggs isn't happy with Josh .

 

I've read a lot of good things about the way Diggs is in the locker room & on the field & i would imagine that's if things are all good but if the guy getting you the ball along with your stats isn't living up to what he thinks i hate to see what might be if Josh doesn't take that 3rd yr jump which i think he will .

 

It's now all up to Josh to prove what he's got !! 

[longtimebillsfan]

58 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I watched some of the highlights of Diggs last season & a lot of those passes to Diggs are pretty much put on the money or in a place that only Diggs can get the throw Josh will need to be more accurate with Diggs because he is a diva & wants the ball as much as possible so if Josh isn't on his game it could turn ugly quick if Diggs isn't happy with Josh .

 

I've read a lot of good things about the way Diggs is in the locker room & on the field & i would imagine that's if things are all good but if the guy getting you the ball along with your stats isn't living up to what he thinks i hate to see what might be if Josh doesn't take that 3rd yr jump which i think he will .

 

It's now all up to Josh to prove what he's got !! 

Let's hope the work Allen is doing on his long ball throws pays off.  He certainly has he weapons. 

[BigBillsFan]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:26 PM, YattaOkasan said:

This place was melting down like every week with how few points we scored when we won (I agree we should score more). So.... no I don’t recall those situations.
 

I do recall a lot of leads in the second half with a great defense which caused us to sit on leads and not throw. To me this leads to less TDs per game but more TDs per attempt. Based on this (anecdotal as it is) I think TD per attempt would be better correlated with winning and long term QB success than TDs per game. 

 

I'll simplify it for you. If you look up the highest TD per attempt in the Hall of Fame to the guys who threw the most TDs you'll have your answer.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 3/25/2020 at 2:07 PM, Shaw66 said:

I think what you said is just right.   Give it time, it will happen.

 

It's hard to watch that video and come to any other conclusion.   This guy is spectacular.  When he gets a little more consistent, play after play, he's going to be a big winner.   He throws like a winner, he runs like a winner, he leads like a winner.  

But it’s that the problem?  Consistency?  No one questions If he can make spectacular plays.  But then he follows it up with awful plays.  He’s lack consistency his whole career.  And that’s what makes good Become great.  
 

but at least, hopefully, we are done with the excuses and can just see if he’s the guy or not. 

[Don Otreply]

If he hits 62% pass percentage, stops with the fumbles, and leads the team back to the playoffs and wins in the playoffs/ and or wins the division and playoff games he is safe. But some of this is on his pass catchers, as we all know the drops have been an issue. Lots of little things have to happen to create success. I am confident that all the little things will be done right and success will follow. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

I watched some of the highlights of Diggs last season & a lot of those passes to Diggs are pretty much put on the money or in a place that only Diggs can get the throw Josh will need to be more accurate with Diggs because he is a diva & wants the ball as much as possible so if Josh isn't on his game it could turn ugly quick if Diggs isn't happy with Josh .

 

I've read a lot of good things about the way Diggs is in the locker room & on the field & i would imagine that's if things are all good but if the guy getting you the ball along with your stats isn't living up to what he thinks i hate to see what might be if Josh doesn't take that 3rd yr jump which i think he will .

 

It's now all up to Josh to prove what he's got !! 

It is, to a great extent, up to Josh, that's for sure. 

 

But I think you've bought two things that aren't true:   Josh isn't accurate enough and Diggs is a diva.  

 

Josh may not have been as consistently accurate last season as we'd like, but there is no question he is an accurate thrower.   He hit receivers right on the money all over the field last season, just not as often as he should.  And when he was inaccurate, it often was because he was late making the decision.   And, by the way, one of Diggs' great strengths is adjusting to and going after the ball, particularly contested catches, so Diggs should make Josh more effective even if Josh doesn't improve.

 

All the reported evidence is that Diggs is not a diva.   He doesn't demand the ball like Beckham or a Bryant.  He's more like a Jordan Phillips, visibly energetic and vocal.   Coaches and teammates love him, they just wish sometimes he'd calm down a little and keep it to himself.  

 

Things got better, all around when they got Diggs.  Not worse.   Diggs answers a lot more questions, for Allen and for the offense, than he causes problems.  

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It is, to a great extent, up to Josh, that's for sure. 

 

But I think you've bought two things that aren't true:   Josh isn't accurate enough and Diggs is a diva.  

 

Josh may not have been as consistently accurate last season as we'd like, but there is no question he is an accurate thrower.   He hit receivers right on the money all over the field last season, just not as often as he should.  And when he was inaccurate, it often was because he was late making the decision.   And, by the way, one of Diggs' great strengths is adjusting to and going after the ball, particularly contested catches, so Diggs should make Josh more effective even if Josh doesn't improve.

 

All the reported evidence is that Diggs is not a diva.   He doesn't demand the ball like Beckham or a Bryant.  He's more like a Jordan Phillips, visibly energetic and vocal.   Coaches and teammates love him, they just wish sometimes he'd calm down a little and keep it to himself.  

 

Things got better, all around when they got Diggs.  Not worse.   Diggs answers a lot more questions, for Allen and for the offense, than he causes problems.  

To quote Parcells, you are what your record says you are.  This is what I can’t stand about the Allen excuses.  He was a 49% passer in junior college.  He never hit over 60% in the Mountain West Conference as a top 10 nfl prospect and didn’t make 1st or 2nd team his last year.  He’s been one of the lowest starting QBs in completion % his first 2 years.  Stop with the excuses.  He’s not accurate enough.  
 

and Diggs was kinda of a female dog in Minnesota.  I get it because he’s our guy now but he had temper tantrums in wins because he wasn’t getting the ball enough.  If I was coach, I’d absolutely lose it on a guy like that.  He seems like a good dude off the field but it is foolish to pretend like he wasn’t a problem in Minnesota.  They are a team with SB talent.  You don’t get rid of a guy like Diggs if there aren’t real issues. 

 

hopefully, Allen does become money with Diggs and all of this is put to bed.  But at this point, Allen isn’t accurate enough and Diggs was a problem on the field for the Vikings. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But it’s that the problem?  Consistency?  No one questions If he can make spectacular plays.  But then he follows it up with awful plays.  He’s lack consistency his whole career.  And that’s what makes good Become great.  
 

but at least, hopefully, we are done with the excuses and can just see if he’s the guy or not. 

Yeah, it's certainly possible that Josh won't become more consistent.   I used to look at Jay Cutler and wonder why, year after year, he didn't seem to learn anything.  I mean, the guy spectacular, strictly physically speaking, but eight years into his career he was still making some of the same God-awful decisions he made as a rookie.

 

I'm confident, because I think Allen is different.  First, despite some of the brilliance he showed as a rookie, there's no denying he looked and played like a rookie in 2018.   In 2019, there was clear progress.   That is, the brilliance was still there, but his understanding and control of the game went up.   And we see it in the stats:  Completion percentage went up nicely, TD/INT ratio flipped to the way it should be, yards per attempt went up at least a little, even though he threw deep less effectively and less often.  All that while his attempts per game went up.   And his team flipped from 6-10 to 10-6.   So he had some real improvement in year two, and that's encouraging.   Cutler, as an example, never got better.   

 

Second, there's real reason to believe he'll continue to improve.   He's smart, he studies, he works hard, and he wants to improve.    He's on a team that a has a culture that drives everyone to study, work hard, and improve, so he's a good match with the culture.   He also is on a team that got noticeably better from year one to year two, and personnel-wise, even before the draft, the team has gotten noticeably better again, with Diggs, the defense, and a maturing stable offensive line.   

 

So as others have said, it's all on Josh.   Beane's doing his job.   McDermott is doing his job.   Josh has to keep improving.  

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, it's certainly possible that Josh won't become more consistent.   I used to look at Jay Cutler and wonder why, year after year, he didn't seem to learn anything.  I mean, the guy spectacular, strictly physically speaking, but eight years into his career he was still making some of the same God-awful decisions he made as a rookie.

 

I'm confident, because I think Allen is different.  First, despite some of the brilliance he showed as a rookie, there's no denying he looked and played like a rookie in 2018.   In 2019, there was clear progress.   That is, the brilliance was still there, but his understanding and control of the game went up.   And we see it in the stats:  Completion percentage went up nicely, TD/INT ratio flipped to the way it should be, yards per attempt went up at least a little, even though he threw deep less effectively and less often.  All that while his attempts per game went up.   And his team flipped from 6-10 to 10-6.   So he had some real improvement in year two, and that's encouraging.   Cutler, as an example, never got better.   

 

Second, there's real reason to believe he'll continue to improve.   He's smart, he studies, he works hard, and he wants to improve.    He's on a team that a has a culture that drives everyone to study, work hard, and improve, so he's a good match with the culture.   He also is on a team that got noticeably better from year one to year two, and personnel-wise, even before the draft, the team has gotten noticeably better again, with Diggs, the defense, and a maturing stable offensive line.   

 

So as others have said, it's all on Josh.   Beane's doing his job.   McDermott is doing his job.   Josh has to keep improving.  

This is a good post.  I definitely think you are seeing this through Bills colored glasses a lot more than if you weren’t a Bills fan.  I used to compare Brett Favre’s first few years with JP Losman’s to make myself think Losman was going to be good enough.

 

my whole issue with the Allen pick is that we were hoping a guy who wasn’t that great in the Mountain West (and flat out awful against tougher conference teams). Would become a franchise nfl qb.  If Allen does this, he would absolutely the exception to every rule.  My prediction right now:  he continues to show flashes but is kinda a game manager on a really good team who isn’t that consistent.  And then are stuck in the Tannehill territory where he is good enough to get a second contract but we are pretty sure he isn’t really the answer.  
 

but I seriously hope you are right and truly mean that.  

[Pokebball]

Bill's fans

 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 He seems like a good dude off the field but it is foolish to pretend like he wasn’t a problem in Minnesota.

Diggs had over 1100 yards receiving (17th in the league) on a team that was 30th in pass attempts.   1100 yards on a team that didn't pass.   

 

Diggs's coaches rave about his attitude.  

 

I'm sure the Bills are delight to have this kind of "problem."

[whorlnut]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It is, to a great extent, up to Josh, that's for sure. 

 

But I think you've bought two things that aren't true:   Josh isn't accurate enough and Diggs is a diva.  

 

Josh may not have been as consistently accurate last season as we'd like, but there is no question he is an accurate thrower.   He hit receivers right on the money all over the field last season, just not as often as he should.  And when he was inaccurate, it often was because he was late making the decision.   And, by the way, one of Diggs' great strengths is adjusting to and going after the ball, particularly contested catches, so Diggs should make Josh more effective even if Josh doesn't improve.

 

All the reported evidence is that Diggs is not a diva.   He doesn't demand the ball like Beckham or a Bryant.  He's more like a Jordan Phillips, visibly energetic and vocal.   Coaches and teammates love him, they just wish sometimes he'd calm down a little and keep it to himself.  

 

Things got better, all around when they got Diggs.  Not worse.   Diggs answers a lot more questions, for Allen and for the offense, than he causes problems.  

IMO it’s lazy analysis to say Allen is overall inaccurate. Yes he has areas to improve, but he went from one of the worst short to intermediate throwers to one of the beat in the span of one year. His deep accuracy was off last year but he’ll work on it this offseason and I have a lot of faith that he’ll come back a lot better in that regard too. 
 

Too many people in the fan base were pissed when we took “the wrong Josh” and never gave him much of a chance. Add to that fact that many “experts” bashed him predaft and that’s what fans still think he is. They fail to look at the overall picture and see he has made great stride. Again...lazy. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Diggs had over 1100 yards receiving (17th in the league) on a team that was 30th in pass attempts.   1100 yards on a team that didn't pass.   

 

Diggs's coaches rave about his attitude.  

 

I'm sure the Bills are delight to have this kind of "problem."

They just traded a 26 year old player with this production.  His former coaches were the ones saying this.  I think it is incredibly naive to think he wasn’t a problem for the Vikings.

 

that said, it’s not like he has issues off the field and is Antonio Brown, who the Bills almost acquired.  But it’s clear with the AB and Diggs moves, the Bills are taking calculated risks on talented players with some attitude issues.  Hopefully, it works out.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is a good post.  I definitely think you are seeing this through Bills colored glasses a lot more than if you weren’t a Bills fan.  I used to compare Brett Favre’s first few years with JP Losman’s to make myself think Losman was going to be good enough.

 

my whole issue with the Allen pick is that we were hoping a guy who wasn’t that great in the Mountain West (and flat out awful against tougher conference teams). Would become a franchise nfl qb.  If Allen does this, he would absolutely the exception to every rule.  My prediction right now:  he continues to show flashes but is kinda a game manager on a really good team who isn’t that consistent.  And then are stuck in the Tannehill territory where he is good enough to get a second contract but we are pretty sure he isn’t really the answer.  
 

but I seriously hope you are right and truly mean that.  

Actually, I think Tannehill IS the answer.   He's getting better every year, which is what happens to good QBs in this league.  

 

And, yes, I'm optimistic, as always.   But the best measure of a player is his play on the field, and his recent play is more relevant than his historic play.   In his second season in the NFL, better competition than the Mountain West, he was significantly better than his first season and he led his team to the playoffs.  Led them.   So I think I'm on pretty solid ground being optimistic.   If Allen stops getting better, he isn't the guy, but his first two seasons in the best competition in the world don't give us any reason to believe he has stopped.  

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is a good post.  I definitely think you are seeing this through Bills colored glasses a lot more than if you weren’t a Bills fan.  I used to compare Brett Favre’s first few years with JP Losman’s to make myself think Losman was going to be good enough.

 

my whole issue with the Allen pick is that we were hoping a guy who wasn’t that great in the Mountain West (and flat out awful against tougher conference teams). Would become a franchise nfl qb.  If Allen does this, he would absolutely the exception to every rule.  My prediction right now:  he continues to show flashes but is kinda a game manager on a really good team who isn’t that consistent.  And then are stuck in the Tannehill territory where he is good enough to get a second contract but we are pretty sure he isn’t really the answer.  
 

but I seriously hope you are right and truly mean that.  

That’s fine. Whatever I guess. But you would have to admit that Allen was playing with subpar talent at Wyoming and was expected to somehow come away with dominant stats. Listen...you are skeptical. I get that. I’m more open minded to seeing the big picture. You’re just gonna have to respect that as well. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Actually, I think Tannehill IS the answer.   He's getting better every year, which is what happens to good QBs in this league.  

 

And, yes, I'm optimistic, as always.   But the best measure of a player is his play on the field, and his recent play is more relevant than his historic play.   In his second season in the NFL, better competition than the Mountain West, he was significantly better than his first season and he led his team to the playoffs.  Led them.   So I think I'm on pretty solid ground being optimistic.   If Allen stops getting better, he isn't the guy, but his first two seasons in the best competition in the world don't give us any reason to believe he has stopped.  

 

Tannehill is not the answer. If Allen only becomes Tannehill we are in trouble. 

[BigBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

My prediction right now:  he continues to show flashes but is kinda a game manager on a really good team who isn’t that consistent.  And then are stuck in the Tannehill territory where he is good enough to get a second contract but we are pretty sure he isn’t really the answer. 

 

The upside is he's younger right now than when Tannehill played his rookie year.

 

I'm still of the belief that now that QBs get paid so much they need to be either up or out as soon as possible and the 3rd year is a perfect test for Allen. I'm in 100% agreement with you.

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Actually, I think Tannehill IS the answer.   He's getting better every year, which is what happens to good QBs in this league.  

 

And, yes, I'm optimistic, as always.   But the best measure of a player is his play on the field, and his recent play is more relevant than his historic play.   In his second season in the NFL, better competition than the Mountain West, he was significantly better than his first season and he led his team to the playoffs.  Led them.   So I think I'm on pretty solid ground being optimistic.   If Allen stops getting better, he isn't the guy, but his first two seasons in the best competition in the world don't give us any reason to believe he has stopped.  

Boom. Well said and spot on. Allen played with future salesmen at Wyoming. Last year was literally his first year of his life with good talent around him. And guess what?  He improved. Hmmmm...

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Tannehill is not the answer. If Allen only becomes Tannehill we are in trouble. 

Well, the Titans disagree with you. So there’s that...

[Don Otreply]

On 3/24/2020 at 7:26 PM, ColoradoBills said:

Allen is the leader of the offense.

The Bills offense has 1 job and that is to score points.

Bills averaged 19.6 points a game last year which is not acceptable.

 

6-7 points more a game with their D puts them up into a SB contending team.

Allen and the O need to improve at least 4 points per game this year minimum.

 

That is the only stat besides winning that matters.

I would contend that the goal for the offense is a TD every quarter. For them to think otherwise is self defeating in the big picture. Yes I understand this may not actually happen every game but it needs to be the goal. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Well, the Titans disagree with you. So there’s that...

 

Miami disagreed with me as well. Until they didn't. 

 

I actually think the Titans contract with him was pretty smart and have said that given where they were. If he repeats last year they are a championship contender and if he doesn't well they can draft a QB next year use Tannehill as a bridge and then get out after 2021 without too much pain. 

 

I just don't think he will repeat last year.

 

EDIT: for what it is worth I think Josh is on a similar level to Tannehill now. He only becomes Tannehill if he improves no further which I think is possible but not likely. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by GunnerBill

[BigBillsFan]

  

7 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

IMO it’s lazy analysis to say Allen is overall inaccurate.

 

It's not lazy when its an historical problem. The numbers are what they are. If you watch him play he clearly can be accurate and in rhythm, but there are times he clearly isn't accurate. One thing is for certain and that is he very rarely hits anyone in stride, usually they are in zones.

 

The one game where he proved he could hit people in stride consistently was the Dallas game. He had some unbelievable throws that made me say "Ok he can be elite."

 

The truth is he needs to prove his accuracy. The 2nd half of the season are clear signs of inconsistency. He can do it. Maybe he's just young and growing. I hope so because as a player he's the most likeable QB I've ever seen in the league.

 

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

EDIT: for what it is worth I think Josh is on a similar level to Tannehill now. He only becomes Tannehill if he improves no further which I think is possible but not likely. 

 

Now? Not even close. There is nothing that even remotely indicates that, only subjective conjecture. If the argument is W/L I refer you to Sanchez, Mark; Tebow, Tim;  King, Shaun; Grossman, Rex or Trubisky, Mitch. Tannehill is at least in a top 10 argument right now, and I can't imagine how that's true for Allen. Allen is a developmental QB who is improving and the team is winning despite the offensive output. Tannehill was the biggest change to their turn-around.

[C.Biscuit97]

36 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

That’s fine. Whatever I guess. But you would have to admit that Allen was playing with subpar talent at Wyoming and was expected to somehow come away with dominant stats. Listen...you are skeptical. I get that. I’m more open minded to seeing the big picture. You’re just gonna have to respect that as well. 

But he was also playing against subpar talent.  Also his college rb is on the Falcons.  And I would expect the number 7 overall pick to dominate the MWC.  Put it this way, how many top 10 pick qbs who became good nfl qbs weren’t dominate college players. 
 

again, I hate being skeptical.  I used to be the ultimate homer but I got burned too many times.  Allen does seem real good things.  He also does some really dumb things too. But on paper, he has a lot of talent around him.  Let’s see him prove it.

5 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

  

 

It's not lazy when its an historical problem. The numbers are what they are. If you watch him play he clearly can be accurate and in rhythm, but there are times he clearly isn't accurate. One thing is for certain and that is he very rarely hits anyone in stride, usually they are in zones.

 

The one game where he proved he could hit people in stride consistently was the Dallas game. He had some unbelievable throws that made me say "Ok he can be elite."

 

The truth is he needs to prove his accuracy. The 2nd half of the season are clear signs of inconsistency. He can do it. Maybe he's just young and growing. I hope so because as a player he's the most likeable QB I've ever seen in the league.

 

 

Now? Not even close. There is nothing that even remotely indicates that, only subjective conjecture. If the argument is W/L I refer you to Sanchez, Mark; Tebow, Tim;  King, Shaun; Grossman, Rex or Trubisky, Mitch. Tannehill is at least in a top 10 argument right now, and I can't imagine how that's true for Allen. Allen is a developmental QB who is improving and the team is winning despite the offensive output. Tannehill was the biggest change to their turn-around.

Eh, Tannehill isn’t that good.  He was back to being Ryan Tannehill.  Henry carries that team on his back. Tannehill was along for the ride.  I mean he’s not bad.  But very rarely is he the reason you won. I would hate if my team settled on Tannehill.  He is the definition  of meh. 

42 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Boom. Well said and spot on. Allen played with future salesmen at Wyoming. Last year was literally his first year of his life with good talent around him. And guess what?  He improved. Hmmmm...

Well, the Titans disagree with you. So there’s that...

Again, his college rb is on the Falcons and his head coach was Carson Wentz college coach.  How many college coaches have had top 10 pick qbs in 3 years?

 

and are you saying the Titans are a smart team?  

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

 

Now? Not even close. There is nothing that even remotely indicates that, only subjective conjecture. If the argument is W/L I refer you to Sanchez, Mark; Tebow, Tim;  King, Shaun; Grossman, Rex or Trubisky, Mitch. Tannehill is at least in a top 10 argument right now, and I can't imagine how that's true for Allen. Allen is a developmental QB who is improving and the team is winning despite the offensive output. Tannehill was the biggest change to their turn-around.

 

He played at a top 10 level last year. Sure. I am a fan of the method that once a guy is in his 5th year or beyond you should throw out his best year. And throw out his worst year. What you are left with is who he is. And Tannehill is a below average starting Quarterback. 

[BigBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He played at a top 10 level last year. Sure. I am a fan of the method that once a guy is in his 5th year or beyond you should throw out his best year. And throw out his worst year. What you are left with is who he is. And Tannehill is a below average starting Quarterback. 

 

I don't want to argue, I want you just to explain why he's a top 10 QB in the league. I just want to see what I'm missing in my analysis of him. Thank you.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I don't want to argue, I want you just to explain why he's a top 10 QB in the league. I just want to see what I'm missing in my analysis of him. Thank you.

 

Why who is a top 10 QB in the league? I don't believe either of them are. You said Tannehill has an argument for top 10. I say unless you only look at 2019 he doesn't have even a squeak of an argument and it is much more likely he reverts to the mean than maintains his 2019 performance. Tannehill is a below average starting Quarterback. 

[BigBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why who is a top 10 QB in the league? I don't believe either of them are. You said Tannehill has an argument for top 10. I say unless you only look at 2019 he doesn't have even a squeak of an argument and it is much more likely he reverts to the mean than maintains his 2019 performance. Tannehill is a below average starting Quarterback. 

 

Misunderstood you and yes I agree.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tannehill is not the answer. If Allen only becomes Tannehill we are in trouble. 

I don't think Tannehill has maxed out yet.   Not nearly.   I see a guy with a lot of talent and brains, a guy who played in a horribly dysfunctional franchise and now has been set free.   I wasn't at all surprised that he took the job from Mariota.   

 

But yes, I agree, the 2019 version Tannehill isn't enough, and if Allen gets only to that level, he's not the guy you want.   You may live with him, because like Flacco, he's good enough to win it all when things fall just right.   What you want is a guy who makes you threat to win a lot, and Tannehill isn't that yet.   

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think Tannehill has maxed out yet.   Not nearly.   I see a guy with a lot of talent and brains, a guy who played in a horribly dysfunctional franchise and now has been set free.   I wasn't at all surprised that he took the job from Mariota.   

 

But yes, I agree, the 2019 version Tannehill isn't enough, and if Allen gets only to that level, he's not the guy you want.   You may live with him, because like Flacco, he's good enough to win it all when things fall just right.   What you want is a guy who makes you threat to win a lot, and Tannehill isn't that yet.   

 

I disagree with more about Tannehill than I have ever disagreed with you about Allen. Talent and brains? I see neither. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Miami disagreed with me as well. Until they didn't. 

 

I actually think the Titans contract with him was pretty smart and have said that given where they were. If he repeats last year they are a championship contender and if he doesn't well they can draft a QB next year use Tannehill as a bridge and then get out after 2021 without too much pain. 

 

I just don't think he will repeat last year.

 

EDIT: for what it is worth I think Josh is on a similar level to Tannehill now. He only becomes Tannehill if he improves no further which I think is possible but not likely. 

This is a very objective take on who they are.  I agree.   You have less confidence than I that Tannehill will improve, but that's just anyone's guess.  

 

I've been sure for a year or more that Allen is going far beyond the current Tannehill.   I'm less sure Tannehill will.  

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 Talent and brains? I see neither. 

That's interesting.   I think Tannehill is an okay-sized athlete with excellent athletic skills.   Quickness, speed, decent size, good arm.   Yeah, maybe he can't take the beating that the 6'5" 240 pounders, but he's more than tough enough to play.  Kind of how I remember Trent Green or Bob Griese.   

 

Brains is just a hunch I have based on watching his on-field decision making.   He seems to get the game.   

 

But I'll readily plead guilty to not knowing enough about him; I'm just talking about my impressions of the guy.  

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They just traded a 26 year old player with this production.  His former coaches were the ones saying this.  I think it is incredibly naive to think he wasn’t a problem for the Vikings.

 

that said, it’s not like he has issues off the field and is Antonio Brown, who the Bills almost acquired.  But it’s clear with the AB and Diggs moves, the Bills are taking calculated risks on talented players with some attitude issues.  Hopefully, it works out.

"Come to Buffalo to become the best version of yourself"

[Billl]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with more about Tannehill than I have ever disagreed with you about Allen. Talent and brains? I see neither. 

Tannehill is one of the most underrated QBs ever.  That isn’t to say he’s great, but most people seem to think he sucks.  He’s never sucked.  If you put him in a good position, he can do some things.  He’s diet Alex Smith.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Tannehill is one of the most underrated QBs ever.  That isn’t to say he’s great, but most people seem to think he sucks.  He’s never sucked.  If you put him in a good position, he can do some things.  He’s diet Alex Smith.

 

Nah. I ain't buying it. 

 

I actually think he is the worst kind of awful. Because he will keep tempting you that there is something there that just isn't. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Gugny]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. I ain't buying it. 

 

I actually think he is the worst kind of awful. Because he will keep tempting you that there is something there that just isn't. 

 

For years I said that I wished Miami never figured out that Matt Moore was the best QB on their roster.  They never did.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

For years I said that I wished Miami never figured out that Matt Moore was the best QB on their roster.  They never did.

 

Agreed. 

[C.Biscuit97]

39 minutes ago, Billl said:

Tannehill is one of the most underrated QBs ever.  That isn’t to say he’s great, but most people seem to think he sucks.  He’s never sucked.  If you put him in a good position, he can do some things.  He’s diet Alex Smith.

There is not a qb that the bills played that I feared less than Tannehill.  He’s serviceable but he isn’t elevating you.  And his wife is super overrated (not ugly by any means but very, very overrated).

[Warcodered]

 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There is not a qb that the bills played that I feared less than Tannehill.  He’s serviceable but he isn’t elevating you.  And his wife is super overrated (not ugly by any means but very, very overrated).

Nobody feared Alex Smith, either.  He won a ton of games when he finally had some talent around him, though.  Miami is a trash organization where a game manager QB isn’t enough because the roster and coaching are always inferior.  Tennessee has a pretty good roster and pretty good coaching, so he turned them into a pretty good team.

 

Wife is def overrated.

[Phil The Thrill]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:31 PM, longtimebillsfan said:

I am a Josh Allen fan.  I believe that he has the physical gifts to be a generational quarterback.  I also am aware of his weaknesses.

 

Now that Josh has one of the best trio starting wide receivers in the league, what does he have to do to show that he is the Bills franchise quarterback?

This is part of the reason why I liked the Diggs trade.  The Bills weren’t going to be on Jerry Juedy or CeeeeDeeee Lamb.  Even if they did,

rookie WR’s sometimes take time to develop.  
 

No excuses with Diggs