The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[shoshin]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

. We need to be looking into best practices to live and function with this virus while the best minds create a vaccine. 

Yes. I’m looking forward to seeing how we do this. The healthcare system can’t exist for long in its current state. 

1 minute ago, Cinga said:

Really good read that I think does a good job exploring the cause, while others are still looking at the symptoms.

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb

No offense intended but this was discussed upstream. That is an anonymous poster on an open publication website. He makes a good point about the operation of the virus but we don’t yet know how to counteract it with treatment. Doctors have already observed and been treating this as an oxygen issue. The ventilators are a last resort, which is why once you get to that, your survival rate is very low. 

[Foxx]

20 minutes ago, shoshin said:

That’s an interesting data point and I’m sure you’ve seen the ones that run counter about how many Covid deaths we are missing. I have no doubt that the massive uptick in Covid cases is causing sloppier classification than usual. 
 

But even *some* sloppiness can’t make this look like the flu. 

here is an interesting chart culminated from data released by the CDC on Apr 3rd. something is wrong with the chart you posted or the two i have posted..

 

all deaths

 

i will say it again... not all things are equal here. things just don't add up. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Foxx

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, Foxx said:

here is an interesting chart culminated from data released by the CDC on Apr 3rd.

 

all deaths

 

i will say it again... not all things are equal here. things just don't add up. 

My hypothesis is that social distancing and other restrictions have a much greater effect on the flu. Given how short it lingers in the body, the flu would be affected more by distancing and you’d see the drop above. 
 

Some misdiagnoses could be part of it too. But just look at hospitalizations and how wracked our health care system is right now to see that whether some of the deaths are mislabeled or not, this is super serious and different from a simple flu or pneumonia. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by shoshin

[123719bwiqrb]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

here is an interesting chart culminated from data released by the CDC on Apr 3rd. something wrong with the chart you posted or the two i have posted..

 

all deaths

 

i will say it again... not all things are equal here. things just don't add up. 

 

The morbid, Stephen King side of me just whispered, "They're all dead, rotting in their homes right now.  Imagine the smell."

[billsfan1959]

35 minutes ago, Foxx said:

except that...

 

there are reports that deaths from other causes are being lumped into the Coronavirus bin. of which, would not surprise me one bit.

 

if you want to in/validate the chart you posted give me some statistics on the yearly overall morbidity rates. if that chart is truly representative we should not be seeing things such as the below.

 

 

If I am mistaken, then somebody let me know; however, I believe Dr. Birx stated that any death where the patient tested positive for COVID-19 is classified in the COVID-19 death statistics. Not saying it wasn't a contributing factor at all, the primary reason, or something in between. Just saying there is a difference in dying "from" something and dying "with" something.

 

Not to minimize COVID-19 in any way, but, when this is all said and done, I would like to see the numbers of deaths from other causes during this time frame compared to what we typically see. 

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, shoshin said:

My hypothesis is that social distancing and other restrictions have a much greater effect on the flu. Given how short it lingers in the body, the flu would be affected more by distancing and you’d see the drop above. 
 

Some misdiagnoses could be part of it too. But just look at hospitalizations and how wracked our health care system is right now to see that whether some of the deaths are mislabeled or not, this is super serious and different from a simple flu or pneumonia. 

so... are you admitting that your chart is probably in error?

 

also, i just don't see our health care system being, 'wracked'. again, i am going to need you to supply some support for that statement. the hyperbole from the media regarding our healthcare system being over run is just not true. yes, they may be stressed (and a major reason they are stressed is due to this being a new disease that was previously unknown/created) but over run, no.

 

 

[GG]

44 minutes ago, Foxx said:

except that...

 

there are reports that deaths from other causes are being lumped into the Coronavirus bin. of which, would not surprise me one bit.

 

if you want to in/validate the chart you posted give me some statistics on the yearly overall morbidity rates. if that chart is truly representative we should not be seeing things such as the below.

 

 

The flipside are the deaths that aren't categorized as Covid-related when the tests aren't done posthumously.  NY EMS is making a lot more cardiac arrest calls than in prior months & years.

 

Here's a grim story from NYC (courtesy of Dave McBride's post in OTW).  Sounds like NYC numbers will go up if these are counted.

 

Quote

If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll, because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process. Update: After WNYC/Gothamist's reporting, the city has reversed its position and will count probable COVID-19 deaths that occur at home.

  

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

also, i just don't see our health care system being, 'wracked'. ...yes, they may be stressed (and a major reason they are stressed is due to this being a new disease that was previously unknown/created) but over run, no.

 

 

I wonder where you live or if you know anyone in health care. If you live in one of the big cities, it’s a clusterF right now. Not “stressed.” Not just NYC. 
 

This isn’t media hyperbole on this point. The healthcare system is straining mightily under just this, while kicking the can down the road on all the other patients who need help. 
 

Do you agree? Or are you still wanting Twitter videos like in the other thread you started?

6 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The flipside are the deaths that aren't categorized as Covid-related when the tests aren't done posthumously.  NY EMS is making a lot more cardiac arrest calls than in prior months & years.

 

Here's a grim story from NYC (courtesy of Dave McBride's post in OTW).  Sounds like NYC numbers will go up if these are counted.

 

  

I made this point earlier. There is some sloppy counting being done I’m sure but it’s hard to know which way it balances out. Either way, there are a lot of people dying from this in a blink compared to any cause, but especially the flu. 

[Foxx]

Trump didn't fire the Navy Capt?

 

Navy Secretary Modly Resigns After Carrier Remarks; Esper Names Replacement

[Foxx]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The flipside are the deaths that aren't categorized as Covid-related when the tests aren't done posthumously.  NY EMS is making a lot more cardiac arrest calls than in prior months & years.

 

Here's a grim story from NYC (courtesy of Dave McBride's post in OTW).  Sounds like NYC numbers will go up if these are counted.

 

  

from the article:

Update: After WNYC/Gothamist's reporting, the city has reversed its position and will count probable COVID-19 deaths that occur at home.

 

 

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I wonder where you live or if you know anyone in health care. If you live in one of the big cities, it’s a clusterF right now. Not “stressed.” Not just NYC. 
 

This isn’t media hyperbole on this point. The healthcare system is straining mightily under just this, while kicking the can down the road on all the other patients who need help. 
 

Do you agree? Or are you still wanting Twitter videos like in the other thread you started?

I made this point earlier. There is some sloppy counting being done I’m sure but it’s hard to know which way it balances out. Either way, there are a lot of people dying from this in a blink compared to any cause, but especially the flu. 

again, i asked you to provide substantiation for your claims here. i'm sure that there are some hospitals that are highly stressed but the majority are not.

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I wonder where you live or if you know anyone in health care. If you live in one of the big cities, it’s a clusterF right now. Not “stressed.” Not just NYC. 
This isn’t media hyperbole on this point. The healthcare system is straining mightily under just this, while kicking the can down the road on all the other patients who need help. 
Do you agree? Or are you still wanting Twitter videos like in the other thread you started?

I made this point earlier. There is some sloppy counting being done I’m sure but it’s hard to know which way it balances out. Either way, there are a lot of people dying from this in a blink compared to any cause, but especially the flu. 

 

1) Maybe you should take a break from this before you stress yourself into a heart attack, because, apparently there will be no healthcare professionals to help you.

 

2) Can anyone try to engage in a discussion about COVID-19 without you accusing them of trying to compare it with the flu?

[realtruelove]

Take a couple of minutes and read this article explaining how COVID-19 attacks the human body,  It's well written.

 

https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb

[Buffalo_Gal]

7 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

They won't let that number go through? They will never allow the real numbers out.

 

[Justice]

We need to shut it all down. All of it. And we better do it quickly and willfully before the military is on our streets. 
 

If I were president I would demand a home-

testing kit be made and delivered to every household. We need to find out who has this thing. Then we need to isolate them all. Anything short of that is a failure. 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Justice said:

We need to shut it all down. All of it. And we better do it quickly and willfully before the military is on our streets. 
 

If I were president I would demand a home-

testing kit be made and delivered to every household. We need to find out who has this thing. Then we need to isolate them all. Anything short of that is a failure. 

It is shut down, as much as you’re going to get without something extreme. And if you go extreme in how you’re enforcing the lockdown this deep into it, with the numbers showing what we now all can see, you won’t get people to comply for long if at all. 
 

A large chunk of Americans have willingly given up their freedom for a month just to help the cause — they did it because their country asked them too. But that won’t last. 
 

The better the weather gets, the more people will realize that voluntary house arrest without having committed a crime is anathema to all we stand for. 

[B-Man]

GERMANY:

 

As of Wednesday at 10am, Germany had more than 107,600 confirmed coronavirus cases, according to Johns Hopkins University figures.

They differ slightly from Robert Koch Institute (RKI) figures which only take into account electronically transmitted figures from Germany’s states and are updated once a day.

The actual number of Covid-19 cases is thought to be higher. Depending on an individual state’s policies, many other possible cases may not have been tested because they show only mild symptoms or have not been in contact with a known case.

There have also been more than 2,000 deaths, with increasingly more cases being reported in old people’s homes. More than 38,200 people are reported to have fully recovered.

According to RKI chief Wieler, the so-called reproduction rate of infections stood at around 1.3 on Wednesday April 8th. This number indicates how many more people a person with coronavirus infects on average. The goal in Germany is to keep the value below 1.0.

 

Stay tuned.

 

 

 

ITALY: “Infections continue to slow as Italy records 604 more coronavirus deaths.

 

The number of patients in intensive care also decreased by 106 to 3.792 on Tuesday, and 1.555 patients have recovered from the virus in 24 hours, with recoveries rising to a total of over 24,000.

There were 604 new fatalities reported.

In total, 17,127 lives have now been lost to the virus in Italy, and there have been 135.586 cases in total since the outbrk began, according to official figures.

 

 

 

SPAIN: Spain’s daily coronavirus death toll rises again. ” The number of new infections in Spain grew to 146,690, up from 140,510, it added. The number of new infections rose by 4.4 percent to 146,690, the health ministry said, as Spain has ramped up its testing for the disease. The number of daily deaths, which peaked on Thursday at 950, rose for the first time on Tuesday after falling for four straight days. But the rate of increase in both deaths and new infections on Wednesday was largely in line with that recorded the previous day, and half of what was recorded just a week ago.”

 

 

 

FRANCE: ” French health authorities run daily briefings and the figures from Tuesday night make for difficult reading – the death toll now stands at 10,328, up from 4,503 a week ago. Between Monday and Tuesday 607 patients died in hospital and 7,131 people are seriously ill in intensive care.”

 

 

 

SWEDEN:

A total of 687 people have died with the coronavirus in Sweden, according to the Public Health Agency’s latest update (presented at 2pm), and there have been 8,419 confirmed cases so far. A total of 678 people have so far been in intensive care, and around 469 patients are currently in intensive care. Sweden is currently seeing an average of around 45 deaths a day, said state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell.

Tegnell however told the press conference that there are signs that Sweden, or particularly Stockholm, may have reached “more of a plateau situation than before”. “But we are starting to see an increase in other parts of the country,” he said.

The department for thoracic surgery at Linköping University Hospital in Sweden tested all of its staff, around 50, for the coronavirus and found that around five to ten tested positive without obvious symptoms or with only very mild symptoms, such as a light headache or a slightly blocked nose.

A Public Health Agency survey is currently under way to investigate how many people in society may be carrying the coronavirus. But asked about the example from Linköping University Hospital, the agency’s analyst Karin Tegmark Wisell told Swedish radio: “This underlines that paying attention to symptoms is not enough, but you have to observe social distancing to as great an extent as possible.”

Yes. Lack of symptoms is great for you, but deadly for others.

 

 

 

.

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 hours ago, meazza said:

Though it doesn’t surprise me that models would be inaccurate based on the constantly changing inputs, it should scare you that places that has this under control like Hong Kong and Singapore are experiencing third waves.

Barring a vaccine or natural immunity, we are all going to get it.  Because it can live for a while on things like metal, it only takes one person to continually spread this virus.  What are we going to do? Lock the whole world down again and again and again? 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

….FWIW...…….

Biden adviser, ObamaCare architect Zeke Emanuel says US should 'prepare' for coronavirus measures to last 18 months

By Tyler Olson | Fox News

Dr. Zeke Emanuel, an adviser to Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on the coronavirus, said this week that Americans could be dealing with strict social distancing measures to combat the coronavirus for 18 months and that the U.S. "will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications."

Emanuel, one of the architects of the Affordable Care Act, also known as ObamaCare, is on the Biden campaign's "Public Health Advisory Committee," which is set up to "provide science-based, expert advice regarding steps the campaign should take to minimize health risks for the candidate, staff, and supporters," according to a March press release.

His comments are partially consistent with statements from the Trump administration's medical advisors and federal government documents on the pandemic. But they seem to paint a more grim picture of the country's ability to roll back shutdowns of businesses and public life in general that are aimed at reducing the spread of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-obamacare-architect-zeke-emanuel-says-u-s-should-prepare-ourselves-for-coronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months

 

 

 

 

 

[shoshin]

 

45 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

2) Can anyone try to engage in a discussion about COVID-19 without you accusing them of trying to compare it with the flu?

 

That was the topic he was addressing with his interesting chart about the pneumonia/flu cases dropping, so that's why it was still being discussed.

[Albwan]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

….FWIW...…….

Biden adviser, ObamaCare architect Zeke Emanuel says US should 'prepare' for coronavirus measures to last 18 months

By Tyler Olson | Fox News

Dr. Zeke Emanuel, an adviser to Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on the coronavirus, said this week that Americans could be dealing with strict social distancing measures to combat the coronavirus for 18 months and that the U.S. "will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications."

Emanuel, one of the architects of the Affordable Care Act, also known as ObamaCare, is on the Biden campaign's "Public Health Advisory Committee," which is set up to "provide science-based, expert advice regarding steps the campaign should take to minimize health risks for the candidate, staff, and supporters," according to a March press release.

His comments are partially consistent with statements from the Trump administration's medical advisors and federal government documents on the pandemic. But they seem to paint a more grim picture of the country's ability to roll back shutdowns of businesses and public life in general that are aimed at reducing the spread of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-obamacare-architect-zeke-emanuel-says-u-s-should-prepare-ourselves-for-coronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months

 

 

 

 

 

Yea since orangemanbad is kind of stale, lets try to scare the living ***** out of the sheeple, that should work!!!!

[shoshin]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Barring a vaccine or natural immunity, we are all going to get it.  Because it can live for a while on things like metal, it only takes one person to continually spread this virus.  What are we going to do? Lock the whole world down again and again and again? 

 

 

Have a plan to deal with it. We are triaging the current wave out of necessity. If we allow the bigger waves to come, and this may be unavoidable, we need to be better prepared to meet them. 

4 minutes ago, Albwan said:

Yea since orangemanbad is kind of stale, lets try to scare the living ***** out of the sheeple, that should work!!!!

 

This is part of a lot of scientific analyses of how this will go, so he's just saying what most scientists accept. To think of what's going on now as anything more than the first wave of many is wishful thinking unless we take drastic measures. As long as there are a few hundred cases here, the 99% of people who don't get it in this wave are at risk. I think we can be ready to slowly reopen on June 1 but it will take a national plan, national backbone, and diligence.  

Edited April 8, 2020 by shoshin

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Albwan said:

Yea since orangemanbad is kind of stale, lets try to scare the living ***** out of the sheeple, that should work!!!!

 

hmmmm….sounds like you're doubting Dr. Emanuel's objectivity (COUGH) due to his acquaintances...……….

[B-Man]

 

BUREAUCRACY KILLS: List: 30 regulations that stymied Trump’s virus response.

 

 

LOTS OF DEREGULATORY LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM CORONAVIRUS:

 

Don’t expect to read about it in the MSM but lots of bureaucratic red tape in the health care field is being waived to speed the official response to the coronavirus pandemic. 

 

Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) and the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) are compiling lists, pointing to additional areas for action and making the case for permanent reforms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

BUREAUCRACY KILLS: List: 30 regulations that stymied Trump’s virus response.

 

 

LOTS OF DEREGULATORY LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM CORONAVIRUS:

 

Don’t expect to read about it in the MSM but lots of bureaucratic red tape in the health care field is being waived to speed the official response to the coronavirus pandemic. 

 

Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) and the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) are compiling lists, pointing to additional areas for action and making the case for permanent reforms.

 

The red tape needs to be permanently cut. That could be one positive to come from this disaster.

 

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Justice said:

SMDH at the right and left arguing over this pandemic. Step away one sec and you might see that Trump did a horrible job and the left wouldn’t have done any better. 

 

If you think the left wouldn't have done any better then Trump isn't doing a horrible job: he's doing the best he can with what information and materials he's got/gotten and the insidious nature of this virus that is wreaking havoc all over the world.  A lot of the same problems like lack of PPE and other critical materials not being re-stocked after 2009 H1N1, or medical equipment production being shipped overseas because of Obamacare, or FDA regulations styming testing or corruption in China and at the WHO are conspired to make this worse.  And if you want to play the blame game like the left likes to do, claiming that Trump fired the pandemic response team and they would have been able to prevent this (lol!), I can say that the left would have waited to close down the borders for fear of appearing racist, which would have allowed hundreds, if not thousands, more infected in to spread the disease silently before we knew what we should be doing, again because China and the WHO lied and obstructed.

 

4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I don't really see many people claiming this is the same as the flu. People have talked about the total number of people that die during each flu season because it is substantial. And there are some seasons that are really bad - just look at the 2017-2018 season depicted on this graph.

 

People like to accuse others of comparing this to the flu and dismiss the flu like it is nothing at all.

 

According to an estimate by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were approximately 45 million cases of the flu in the United States during the 2017-2018 influenza season, resulting in an estimated 21 million flu-associated medical visits, 810,000 flu-associated hospitalizations and an estimated 61,000 flu-associated deaths

 

During 2014-2015, There were an estimated 30 million cases, 14 million flu-associated medical visits, 591,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 51,000 flu-associated deaths

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

 

Yeah.  And again, unlike with Wuhan virus, we have an annual flu vaccine that prevents a lot of illness/death.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Here is yesterday's "with" becoming "from" Q&A:
 

 

[Justice]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

If you think the left wouldn't have done any better then Trump isn't doing a horrible job: he's doing the best he can with what information and materials he's got/gotten and the insidious nature of this virus that is wreaking havoc all over the world.  A lot of the same problems like lack of PPE and other critical materials not being re-stocked after 2009 H1N1, or medical equipment production being shipped overseas because of Obamacare, or FDA regulations styming testing or corruption in China and at the WHO are conspired to make this worse.  And if you want to play the blame game like the left likes to do, claiming that Trump fired the pandemic response team and they would have been able to prevent this (lol!), I can say that the left would have waited to close down the borders for fear of appearing racist, which would have allowed hundreds, if not thousands, more infected in to spread the disease silently before we knew what we should be doing, again because China and the WHO lied and obstructed.

 

 

Yeah.  And again, unlike with Wuhan virus, we have an annual flu vaccine that prevents a lot of illness/death.

Both sides brushed this thing off in the earliest of stages. We should have closed down the border the second we heard about this. Also telling people this will all go away in a couple of weeks wasn’t good advice at all. We needed quicker decision making at the very start. 

[Westside]

Just now, Justice said:

Both sides brushed this thing off in the earliest of stages. We should have closed down the border the second we heard about this. Also telling people this will all go away in a couple of weeks wasn’t good advice at all. We needed quicker decision making at the very start. 

How about telling people it's ok to go out and shop and eat at restaurants at the end of February? Is that horrible advice or just a tad slow on the decision making?

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Justice said:

Both sides brushed this thing off in the earliest of stages. We should have closed down the border the second we heard about this. Also telling people this will all go away in a couple of weeks wasn’t good advice at all. We needed quicker decision making at the very start. 

 

It's easy to say in retrospect.

 

But starting in early February, the assumptions were that this virus would be similar to the previous pandemics over the last 20 years, and would die off before it truly spread globally.  Obviously that was a bad miscalculation.

[Justice]

4 minutes ago, westside2 said:

How about telling people it's ok to go out and shop and eat at restaurants at the end of February? Is that horrible advice or just a tad slow on the decision making?

And even now telling people to go out and vote 

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Justice said:

Both sides brushed this thing off in the earliest of stages. We should have closed down the border the second we heard about this. Also telling people this will all go away in a couple of weeks wasn’t good advice at all. We needed quicker decision making at the very start. 

With China being less than forthcoming on how contagious this virus is, and it being absolutely impossible to protect against any and all viruses coming out of a Chinese wet market (assuming it was not engineered as a bio-weapon, although it has become a bio-weapon with the Chinese lying and the WHO being their mouthpiece of "all is well!"), no one expected a virus that can live on metal, paper, plastic for days/hours to spread globally. The "we have never seen anything like this" is pretty accurate.  A lot has been learned about this virus since it was released into the wild by China and spread across an unsuspecting world.

Closing the borders the second we heard about this? Pulllleeze.  Closing down flights from China was called xenophobic. Poor widdle innocent China. Why is the big, bad United States picking on them? {sniff}
 

[B-Man]

LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL? Dr. Fauci says, ‘beyond this week, should see beginning of turnaround’

 

.

[Westside]

12 minutes ago, Justice said:

And even now telling people to go out and vote 

And even now scaring the ***** out of people with the 18 months lockdown talk. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by westside2

[Cinga]

12 minutes ago, Justice said:

And even now telling people to go out and vote 

wow... there happens to be people in underprivileged countries that could be shot for voting yet still go to the polls. Democracy doesn't stop during a crisis, only emphasizes even more the importance of it 

[Magox]

41 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

….FWIW...…….

Biden adviser, ObamaCare architect Zeke Emanuel says US should 'prepare' for coronavirus measures to last 18 months

By Tyler Olson | Fox News

Dr. Zeke Emanuel, an adviser to Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on the coronavirus, said this week that Americans could be dealing with strict social distancing measures to combat the coronavirus for 18 months and that the U.S. "will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications."

Emanuel, one of the architects of the Affordable Care Act, also known as ObamaCare, is on the Biden campaign's "Public Health Advisory Committee," which is set up to "provide science-based, expert advice regarding steps the campaign should take to minimize health risks for the candidate, staff, and supporters," according to a March press release.

His comments are partially consistent with statements from the Trump administration's medical advisors and federal government documents on the pandemic. But they seem to paint a more grim picture of the country's ability to roll back shutdowns of businesses and public life in general that are aimed at reducing the spread of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-obamacare-architect-zeke-emanuel-says-u-s-should-prepare-ourselves-for-coronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that is what Biden is going with then he loses.  I have a hard time believing that will be his message.

[Justice]

1 minute ago, Cinga said:

wow... there happens to be people in underprivileged countries that could be shot for voting yet still go to the polls. Democracy doesn't stop during a crisis, only emphasizes even more the importance of it 

Are you serious? Mail-in balloting or online voting should be the only type of voting that should be done right now. Gathering people in large groups is the last thing. A gun IS pointing at ALL of us. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Justice said:

Are you serious? Mail-in balloting  fraud or online voting  fraud should not be the only type of voting that should be done right now allowed. 

 

FIFY

[Buffalo_Gal]

5 minutes ago, Justice said:

Are you serious? Mail-in balloting or online voting should be the only type of voting that should be done right now. Gathering people in large groups is the last thing. A gun IS pointing at ALL of us. 

WTF!?  Go hide under your bed.  Seriously. 

They say people who do not venture out become more and more afraid of venturing out.  I didn't believe it. Until now.

The LAST THING we as a country should want is mail-in voting or online voting. How to Rig an Election 101. 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[Deranged Rhino]

27 minutes ago, Justice said:

Both sides brushed this thing off in the earliest of stages. We should have closed down the border the second we heard about this. Also telling people this will all go away in a couple of weeks wasn’t good advice at all. We needed quicker decision making at the very start. 

 

Surely you can acknowledge that the reason most downplayed it early (hindsight quibbles aside), is because the global community put its faith in the WHO and the UN, only to discover that they both were helping China cover up the extent of the spread/crisis. This was a failure of globalism on a massive scale, with the lion's share of the blame falling at the feet of the CCP and the globalists of the past 30+ years. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Justice said:

And even now telling people to go out and vote 

 

Voting is sacred. Letting fear rob us of not only our personal freedoms (as we live under house arrest despite committing no crime), but also our right to vote would be a terrible precedent to set for the future. 

 

Imagine the "fun" bad actors could cause within our electoral process if we set that standard. 

 

 

[Magox]

46 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Have a plan to deal with it. We are triaging the current wave out of necessity. If we allow the bigger waves to come, and this may be unavoidable, we need to be better prepared to meet them. 

 

This is part of a lot of scientific analyses of how this will go, so he's just saying what most scientists accept. To think of what's going on now as anything more than the first wave of many is wishful thinking unless we take drastic measures. As long as there are a few hundred cases here, the 99% of people who don't get it in this wave are at risk. I think we can be ready to slowly reopen on June 1 but it will take a national plan, national backbone, and diligence.  

 

 

He's saying even no to Restaurants over the next 18 months.  

 

He can GFH