THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - All Part of the Process

[row_33]

1 minute ago, jkeerie said:

I understand your point, but the Bills weren't blown out by anyone.  They were not overmatched by anyone.   They can play with any team now.  If they get better, which I believe they will, who knows?

visiting teams don’t go for the blowout, they are very content to walk out of Buffalo with a one score win 

 

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I understand your point, but the Bills weren't blown out by anyone.  They were not overmatched by anyone.   They can play with any team now.  If they get better, which I believe they will, who knows?

What you describe sounds eight and eightish 

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

visiting teams don’t go for the blowout, they are very content to walk out of Buffalo with a one score win 

 

If you want to believe that, fine.  But what I saw were the Pats and the Ravens happy to walk away with 7 point wins.

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I understand your point, but the Bills weren't blown out by anyone.  They were not overmatched by anyone.   They can play with any team now.  If they get better, which I believe they will, who knows?

 

They were blown out by Philly 31-13.  Couldn't stop the run and seemingly gave up somewhere in the second quarter.

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

What you describe sounds eight and eightish 

Actually what I described was 10 and 6 with a throw away final game against the Jets.

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

They were blown out by Philly 31-13.  Couldn't stop the run and seemingly gave up somewhere in the second quarter.

I'll give you that one.   We should have been running the ball in those conditions.   Philly did, and they won.  But that was only one game.

[Happy]

20 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

They're all young and growing.  McDermott too.  

 

So I expect Josh to be a lot better, but not simply because he has made strides.  

 

I think Josh will be better.  I also expect McD and his staff to be better, a lot better.  Yesterday was not good enough, on offense AND defense once they had a 16-0 lead and after half time.  Third and eighteen, stop the Texans and there is a good chance the Bills win.  Didn't do it.  The defense on that play was flat out dumb.  There is NO reason for a prevent defense formation; go with what got you to that point.

 

I want to see that the Process applies to McD and his staff.  I have my doubts as I haven't seen it this season.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think Josh will be better.  I also expect McD and his staff to be better, a lot better.  Yesterday was not good enough, on offense AND defense once they had a 16-0 lead and after half time.  Third and eighteen, stop the Texans and there is a good chance the Bills win.  Didn't do it.  The defense on that play was flat out dumb.  There is NO reason for a prevent defense formation; go with what got you to that point.

 

I want to see that the Process applies to McD and his staff.  I have my doubts as I haven't seen it this season.

I agree about all of this. 

 

And yes, the Process DOES apply to McD and his staff.  McBeane have said so.  McD is a believer in the process for everyone.   

 

Whether the Process is working on the coaches is a different question.  

[1st&ten]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

People make comments like this all the time.  The comment demonstrates that you aren't listening to what McBeane have been saying since they got to Buffalo.

 

The process is designed to build a team that has sustained long-term success.  That means that they're looking for the kind of success that New Orleans and New England and Kansas City have - that is, success where the team keeps winning even thought the players keep changing.  That's what they mean when they talk about building the right way.  

 

So, for example, the Bills went for quantity instead of quality in free agency in 2019.   Other than Morse, they didn't sign a premier free agent on the offensive line.   They signed a lot of journeymen, expecting to get exactly what they got - decent improvement on the offensive line.  They'll decide that one of two of those guys are keepers, and they'll get some new talent next year.  In other words, they didn't bet the farm with the expectation that they could become a Super Bowl contender in 2019.   

 

It's not an accident that the "Championship Caliber" sign went up late this season.  McDermott sets goals with the expectation that once a goal is achieved, they won't go backward.   The goal for 2019 was to become Playoff Caliber, and when that goal was achieved, the goal was changed.   That sign will stay up now.   Every player on this team now knows that that goal is achievable.  

 

There is nothing that anyone ever has said that this is the seven year slog that you make up to be contrarian.  

 

This is one of the youngest teams in the league, with a lot of cap room and ten draft picks and a process in place designed to generate continuous improvement.   6-10 to 10-6, including conceding a loss in the final game, together with going overtime in a Wildcard game, is substantial improvement.   Just because you're unhappy that your team didn't do better doesn't mean that the Bills are seriously on the move.     

 

This is true Shaw, very insightful post. The Bills could add several new starters next year & our talent level will increase.

As you have mentioned in other posts, the Bills are still learning. While Bills fans are disappointed, they shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we went on the road in a playoff game with a young team & almost won the game-----we're still growing.

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

Just because you imagine they are on the move, does not make it so either.  The Bills had very average results this year.  Their performance against thier particular opponents was just about league average against those opponents.  Next years schedule shifts from the horrible NFC east to the pretty good NFC west.  Very good chance the team wins fewer games next year, based on this years results. 

I agree Chaos....all this optimism is fine and dandy but a little realism has to set in. Next year's schedule is brutal. If Daboll stays I don't see this offense taking that next step. Our HC decided to take his foot off the gas at 16-0. This is not the first time he's done this nor will it be the last. One very important thing to remember in this "long term process" must include contracts coming up. Can we trust McBeane to keep and pay the right players to expedite these milestones? Windows in the NFL are usually short. I believe Josh will continue to slowly improve. I believe in Sean's cultural process. But his coaching tactics scare me. Go conservative,  go home. They will need a monster offseason. My biggest FEAR is the Bills become the early Andy Dalton Bengals. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by LABILLBACKER

[Haslett_Stomp]

Thanks Shaw, I always look forward to your Rockpile reviews, and thank you for putting the game in proper prospective.  I intentionally stayed away from TBD until now because I experienced all the negative emotions you expressed in the second paragraph of your post.

[poblano]

4 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

 From what I've seen from Daboll, 90% of the time I know what he is going to do. 

You are a defensive geniuses. 

Or just a buffoon

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, poblano said:

You are a defensive geniuses. 

I have enormous respect for what those coaches know.  Although it's possible, I'm virtually certain that there is NO ONE posting on this board whose knowledge about football approaches in any meaningful way the knowledge of any professional football head coach or coordinator, including me.   I think football insiders  like them laugh at the notion that we understand the game in anything like the way understand it.   

 

It's fun to talk about, but we're just talking.  

[gomper]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bills lost to the Houston Texans Saturday, 22-19 in the AFC Wildcard game.   I’m numb, and I’ve already forgotten much of the game.  I’d rather be numb than begin studying the game in detail, watching replays and analyzing players and coaches, because I don’t want to subject myself to the pain of reliving a game the Bills could have and probably should have won.

 

So how do I feel?  I’m disappointed.  Frustrated.  Happy.  Pleased.  Hopeful.  Angry.  Resigned. 

 

How can I not be disappointed, having watched a whole variety of head-scratching calls, plays and officiating decisions that cost the Bills the game?  And frustrated, too, with all of the “if only” thoughts that keep running through my head.

 

Happy and pleased?  Really?   You bet I’m happy.  The Bills showed that they belong in the playoffs, that they can compete.  Although they won’t say it, the Kansas City coaches are probably happy to be getting the Texans instead of the Bills.   The Bills aren’t ready for a run deep into the playoffs, but they are tough to beat.  I never expected them to be ready this year, and I don’t think Sean McDermott did, either.  Of course, he wanted to go deep into the playoffs, but he also knew that he is building a team and that his building wasn’t going to be complete in 2019.  The Bills’ best games are ahead of them.  So I’m hopeful.

 

Angry?  I’m angry about the officiating decision that opened the second half.   I’m sure there are other calls that are worth considering – I simply don’t know the details of the rule on the Cody Ford block that cost the Bills a shot at the winning field goal, but there simply is no excuse for not enforcing the rules on the kickoff the way they are written.  That was a fumble, an illegal forward pass, a safety, something.  The Texans made a big mistake and the officials just gave them a pass.   That’s wrong.  

 

So, what about the game?

 

First, the Bills have heart and courage.  Emotionally, they are off the charts.  Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott built them that way, and we can expect more of the same next season.  The game was over after the intentional grounding penalty and the sack killed what looked like Buffalo’s last drive with a minute and a half left in regulation.   The Bills had every reason to pack it in and go home.  The Bills’ defense had no reason to believe in their offense, but they banished those thoughts and instead gave up five, three, one and zero yards on four consecutive plays, giving the ball back to the offense.  Banishing their own thoughts of their previous failures, the Bill’s offense executed a masterful drive, with two shots at the winning touchdown before Stephen Hauschka tied the game with five seconds left. 

Those defensive, offensive and special teams performances at the end of the game were heroic. 

 

Special teams?  Yes.  They made the field goal, of course, but more impressive was their ability to abandon the field goal and execute a spiked incompletion with Bojorquez under center when the Bills’ first down was confirmed with with 21 seconds remaining and the clock running.  That was coaching excellence and player preparedness on display, championship-caliber execution under pressure. 

 

Some other points, in no particular order:

 

I’ve said all season that the offensive line is not good enough, and we saw it on Saturday.  I have trouble blaming Josh Allen for either the intentional grounding or the sack on what looked like the final drive in regulation, because both times defenders got to him essentially untouched.   He probably misread the defensive alignments and needed to be looking for those breakdowns, but they were in some way breakdowns of the offensive line.  Allen did a pretty good job most of the day avoiding the rush, but he deserves better protection.

 

Allen was erratic, to be sure.   He looks like a superstar, delivering bullets to receivers through the smallest of windows, but the reality is that his judgment in making those throws is questionable.  Why?  Because those throws don’t look any different than the two or three throws that were equally accurate that landed squarely in the bellies of defenders who just couldn’t hold on for the interception.   Allen was lucky.

 

And Allen choked.  After Ford’s penalty, the Bills called what looked like a hook and ladder, the plan being for Williams to catch a short ball on the right side, draw the tacklers and pitch to Singletary.  It was a creative call, a play that had a good chance of gaining the 20 yards that the Bills needed to give Hauschka a shot.  There was a lot of open field, because Houston was in a prevent-style set.   It was an easy throw, and Allen missed it.   It may have been Allen’s biggest mistake of the game. 

 

The truth is, as we’ve seen all season, that it’s hard for the Bills to win when they ask Allen to throw the ball 40 times in a game.  His completion percentage drops, and his mistakes increase.   Some of that is true for most QBs – when they’re throwing 40 passes, it means their team is losing, and they’re desperate.  Part of Allen’s problem is he needs better receivers.   And some of it is that he needs better coaching – in the game-tying drive, Brian Daboll called the same deep route to Duke Williams two plays in a row because (a) that was the only deep route he had, or (b) he didn’t trust Allen to throw it over the middle and lose the field goal opportunity, or (c) he didn’t have the courage to call something else.  Allen, by the way, did his job on those two plays, throwing the ball away. 

 

What about Allen’s attempted lateral to Knox?   Well, in the modern NFL, coaches don’t want their players improvising like that, but give Allen credit.  He knew he had Knox trailing the play – in fact, when Allen first broke containment, he looked like he wanted to pitch to Knox but Knox was ahead of him at that point.   As he was about to get tackled, Allen could see that the sideline was clear and that Knox would have a straight run for the go-ahead touchdown.  Allen just waited too long to make the pitch, and when the instantaneous opportunity passed, he was supposed to know to hold on to the ball.   It’s the kind of play that he will learn from.   

 

My biggest problem with the offense was that Daboll more or less abandoned the run.   Singletary was hurting Houston regularly – not as well as Henry gashed the Patriots later on Saturday, but 19 touches was not enough.  Give him another five or ten touches because it’s an easy way to take the ball out of Allen’s hands, and let the guy who looks like a consistent playmaker make some plays.  

 

McDermott tells his team to be fearless.   It takes courage to stick with the running game, because in the heat of battle it’s tempting to go after chunk yardage with receivers who, if not great, still make plays.  But the running game was working, and especially when the Houston pass rush kept beating Allen’s protection, giving the ball to Singletary could have changed the outcome. 

 

The defense was, if not superb, at least playoff caliber.   Houston has a good offense with some big-time playmakers, and the Bills held them in check.   The reality is that DeShaun Watson is a premier quarterback – he has a great arm, he’s accurate, he’s a good decision maker, and he is a tough, tough runner.   He’s going to make plays against you.  The Bills contained him pretty well.   Yes, Neal and Milano failed to get the sack on the play that essentially won the game, but Watson may be the only QB in the league who can make that play.   He’s just that good.

 

And just like Watson is going to make some plays, Hopkins will, too.  The Bills held him to six catches and 90 yards in essentially five quarters.  And the one long ball, a completion that admittedly hurt, was well covered by White – it took a perfect throw from Watson and an excellent catch for the completion.

 

What the defense didn’t do was make a signature play.  They needed a second-half takeaway, or the sack on Watson on that final drive.  They needed one big play from the defense somewhere, and they didn’t get it.  Or, if they weren’t going to make a signature play, they needed to make the play on the final drive on third and 18 from the Houston 19.  As the television commentators pointed out, the entire defensive shell dropped too deep, leaving Johnson with 10 or 12 free yards.  That wasn’t a guy like Watson making a superstar play; that was the Bills giving a good ball carrier too much room to carry the ball. 

 

The game was a huge disappointment, but the season was a success.   The Bills accomplished about as much as could be expected with an immature and still developing quarterback, and average talent on the offensive line and at wideout.  It’s a process, and the process will proceed. 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

I usually love your posts but you letting the entire team and McDermott off big time. Coaching excellence? In that one situation they were prepared properly.  Great.

 That's his job. How about 4th and 27? How about punting on 4th and 4 from the 38? How about his wonderful penchant for having no feel for the correct time to call a TO. The list goes on . 

 

No mention of the absolute loss of technique on fundamentals when it comes to tackling.  Yes. Watson is exceptional,  but let's not let Milano off the hook for not making a play he should have made. 

 

I could go on and on. The bottom line is Allen,  the D, and the coaching staff all reacted negatively to the increasing pressure in the last 20 minutes of regulation and in OT. Blowing a 16-0 lead in the process. 

 

That's the definition of choking. 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, gomper said:

I usually love your posts but you letting the entire team and McDermott off big time. Coaching excellence? In that one situation they were prepared properly.  Great.

 That's his job. How about 4th and 27? How about punting on 4th and 4 from the 38? How about his wonderful penchant for having no feel for the correct time to call a TO. The list goes on . 

 

No mention of the absolute loss of technique on fundamentals when it comes to tackling.  Yes. Watson is exceptional,  but let's not let Milano off the hook for not making a play he should have made. 

 

I could go on and on. The bottom line is Allen,  the D, and the coaching staff all reacted negatively to the increasing pressure in the last 20 minutes of regulation and in OT. Blowing a 16-0 lead in the process. 

 

That's the definition of choking. 

Um, as I explained elsewhere, going for it on 4th and 27 actually gave the Bills two shots at tying or winning the game, and it worked.  On the second shot, tied the game.  

 

Um, despite all of the these egregious coaching errors you perceive, the Bills were in position to kick the winning field goal until a pretty horrible call by the officials.   

 

All of this with mediocre offensive line talent, mediocre receiver talent, and a young quarterback.   

 

Sure, MIlano didn't make a play.  Hopkins got shut out in the first half.   The nature of the game is that each player gets beat sometime. 

 

The reality, the bottom line, is that the Bills aren't as good as the Texans, or weren't on Saturday.   That does not mean in any way that McDermott, his coaches or his players should be indicted or condemn.   Collectively, they weren't good enough.  Collectively, there are things they wish today they had done differently.   The Patriots feel EXACTLY the same way today.  So do the Saints and the Eagles.   

 

If the refs don't stick Ford with that penalty and Hauschka kicks the field goal, 90% of the whining we're hearing today, whining about McDermott and Daboll and Allan and Milano, wouldn't be here.  We'd be celebrating Allen's incredible drive to tie the game, the incredible stop that preceded the drive, the wisdom of sticking with Hausch money, etc. etc. etc.    

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

55 minutes ago, poblano said:

You are a defensive geniuses. 

Or just a buffoon

Defensive Genius... 90% of us are because we know what Daboll is running. Sorry you are the other 10%

[LeGOATski]

51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I have enormous respect for what those coaches know.  Although it's possible, I'm virtually certain that there is NO ONE posting on this board whose knowledge about football approaches in any meaningful way the knowledge of any professional football head coach or coordinator, including me.   I think football insiders  like them laugh at the notion that we understand the game in anything like the way understand it.   

 

It's fun to talk about, but we're just talking.  

Yeah, they're the PhDs

 

The x-factor is the ability to teach and communicate. I think McDermott is a great teacher/communicator. Not sure about Daboll, but he's still working with a young QB who was admittedly raw coming out of college. I'd like to see him stick around for continuity's sake, but we'll see. I think if they need to hire a new OC, it will be someone who fits nicely. Can't wait to see how the offseason shakes out.

[gomper]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Um, as I explained elsewhere, going for it on 4th and 27 actually gave the Bills two shots at tying or winning the game, and it worked.  On the second shot, tied the game.  

 

Um, despite all of the these egregious coaching errors you perceive, the Bills were in position to kick the winning field goal until a pretty horrible call by the officials.   

 

All of this with mediocre offensive line talent, mediocre receiver talent, and a young quarterback.   

 

Sure, MIlano didn't make a play.  Hopkins got shut out in the first half.   The nature of the game is that each player gets beat sometime. 

 

The reality, the bottom line, is that the Bills aren't as good as the Texans, or weren't on Saturday.   That does not mean in any way that McDermott, his coaches or his players should be indicted or condemn.   Collectively, they weren't good enough.  Collectively, there are things they wish today they had done differently.   The Patriots feel EXACTLY the same way today.  So do the Saints and the Eagles.   

 

If the refs don't stick Ford with that penalty and Hauschka kicks the field goal, 90% of the whining we're hearing today, whining about McDermott and Daboll and Allan and Milano, wouldn't be here.  We'd be celebrating Allen's incredible drive to tie the game, the incredible stop that preceded the drive, the wisdom of sticking with Hausch money, etc. etc. etc.    

 

Um, are you serious? The Bills are the better team. It was a systematic collapse by both sides of the ball. Plus, if you think McDermott's game management and his staff isn't complicit in blowing this game, I guess we'll just have to disagree. 

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, gomper said:

Um, are you serious? The Bills are the better team. It was a systematic collapse by both sides of the ball. Plus, if you think McDermott's game management and his staff isn't complicit in blowing this game, I guess we'll just have to disagree. 

The hyperbole around  here is unbelievable.  A four-play defensive stand, when one first down would have ended the game is a systematic collapse?   A beautifully executed 11-play, one-minute drive on the road, with two shots at the end zone and game tying field goal is a systematic collapse? 

 

What you say is nonsense.   The Bills just played an incredibly competitive football game, including in the final 20 minutes of the game, and happened to lose.   In no way was what we watched a systematic collapse.   Nonsense.  

[poblano]

1 hour ago, BillsRdue said:

Defensive Genius... 90% of us are because we know what Daboll is running. Sorry you are the other 10%

Oh, a humble defensive geniuses

[gomper]

20 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The hyperbole around  here is unbelievable.  A four-play defensive stand, when one first down would have ended the game is a systematic collapse?   A beautifully executed 11-play, one-minute drive on the road, with two shots at the end zone and game tying field goal is a systematic collapse? 

 

What you say is nonsense.   The Bills just played an incredibly competitive football game, including in the final 20 minutes of the game, and happened to lose.   In no way was what we watched a systematic collapse.   Nonsense.  

So blowing a 16- 0 lead with 20 minutes to play and having Allen,  the D , and McDermott all taking turns in opening the window is not a collapse? I'll be nice and say we see it differently and leave it at that. 

[Figster]

14 hours ago, gomper said:

So blowing a 16- 0 lead with 20 minutes to play and having Allen,  the D , and McDermott all taking turns in opening the window is not a collapse? I'll be nice and say we see it differently and leave it at that. 

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Edited January 6, 2020 by Figster

[Shaw66]

40 minutes ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part. Despite the shock you could see written on his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him. Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it and come back to this place one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Right.  And I'll add that the Bills got a three and out from the Texans on their first possession in overtime, and the Bills then drove into range for a game-winning field goal, only to have a very weak or totally wrong call take that away.   So that's two three and outs, a game tying drive and a potential game winning drive.   That's 8 minutes on the clock during the most important part of the game where the Bills were in control.  Systematic collapse simply doesn't apply.  

[gomper]

45 minutes ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

I see and respect your point.  I think they choked. It's over now.  Hopefully they all learn from it.

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  And I'll add that the Bills got a three and out from the Texans on their first possession in overtime, and the Bills then drove into range for a game-winning field goal, only to have a very weak or totally wrong call take that away.   So that's two three and outs, a game tying drive and a potential game winning drive.   That's 8 minutes on the clock during the most important part of the game where the Bills were in control.  Systematic collapse simply doesn't apply.  

No, probably not, but when the game was over the house of cards fell for many a Bills fan.

 

and for many it felt like a collapse....

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, gomper said:

I see and respect your point.  I think they choked. It's over now.  Hopefully they all learn from it.

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

1 minute ago, Figster said:

No, probably not, but when the game was over the house of cards fell for many a Bills fan.

 

and for many it felt like a collapse....

True. 

[billspro]

This is going to be an exciting offseason. Hopefully this year is the year they put it all together. 

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

True. 

This is true, but is he ever going to learn to get rid of the ball? He held the ball so long in this game that he opened himself up to bad plays. Cody Ford might be the slowest NFL player I've ever seen. He routinely is 1/2 second slower off the snap than everyone else. I think replacing him has to be a priority or my dream of kicking Dawkins over and getting an improvement at LT. 

[Success]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Well stated, and it's nice to see a rational point of view.

 

This was Allen's 1st playoff game, and really the 1st "earned" one for this team.  Given that, they came out as poised as can be, especially on the road against a team that was just about their equal.  Booger kept talking about that (a bit too much for my liking), but their near flawless execution in the 1st half made some of the mistakes of the 2nd half seem more egregious.

 

I've seen "collapse," "choke," "lights were too bright" and all of that. That's not how I saw it.  As Watt said, the Texans just needed a spark, and they got that.  That's how football games are - they reclaimed the momentum in the 2nd half, and held onto it, as a home team probably should.  I can't think of one mistake that we made that really cost us the game.  Everyone makes a big deal out of Allen's lateral, which was alarming & very uncharacteristic, but it didn't change a thing.  Nor did the grounding & sack on the previous drive.

 

It was a 50/50 game, and we came up just short.  There is no rule that when you have a 16-0 lead with close to a half left to play, you win.  And it doesn't mean you "choked" when you lose a game like that. Credit to the Texans for being mentally tough and fighting back.

 

[Buffalo Junction]

Too many stalled drives that resulted in field goals. That’s been an issue all season, and it’s the biggest indicator of an underperforming offense - points aside. Some of that is on Daboll, some on the WRs, some the O Line, and some on Allen. They need more talent and the coaching needs to improve. Daboll cannot broadcast play selection with packages until/unless the talent is at a level where it doesn’t matter. Add 2-4 playmakers at key positions and this team starts winning these types of games consistently. The foundation is built though. That’s an improvement upon the last two decades. 

[Figster]

37 minutes ago, billspro said:

This is going to be an exciting offseason. Hopefully this year is the year they put it all together. 

I agree, there's going to be some high expectations next season with possibly some big changes within the Division.

 

What happens during the offseason and coming up on the next draft will be very interesting...

Edited January 6, 2020 by Figster

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Success said:

Well stated, and it's nice to see a rational point of view.

 

This was Allen's 1st playoff game, and really the 1st "earned" one for this team.  Given that, they came out as poised as can be, especially on the road against a team that was just about their equal.  Booger kept talking about that (a bit too much for my liking), but their near flawless execution in the 1st half made some of the mistakes of the 2nd half seem more egregious.

 

I've seen "collapse," "choke," "lights were too bright" and all of that. That's not how I saw it.  As Watt said, the Texans just needed a spark, and they got that.  That's how football games are - they reclaimed the momentum in the 2nd half, and held onto it, as a home team probably should.  I can't think of one mistake that we made that really cost us the game.  Everyone makes a big deal out of Allen's lateral, which was alarming & very uncharacteristic, but it didn't change a thing.  Nor did the grounding & sack on the previous drive.

 

It was a 50/50 game, and we came up just short.  There is no rule that when you have a 16-0 lead with close to a half left to play, you win.  And it doesn't mean you "choked" when you lose a game like that. Credit to the Texans for being mentally tough and fighting back.

 

That's nicely said too.   It was a 50/50 game.   Yes, you want your team to make the plays to win, like the play Watson made, but unfortunately they made it and the Bills didn't.  

 

But as I've been saying, and what gets lost in the disappointment of the loss, is that down the stretch the Bills got a three and out, held on fourth down, drove for the tying score, got a three and out in overtime and drove for what should have been a field goal attempt to win the game.   That's high quality stuff from a bunch of guys most of whom have never been in a playoff game.  

[gomper]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

True. 

This was the biggest game Allen ever played in by far, so I have faith he'll learn and grow for it.  No excuse for the D to forget the fundamentals but that is always correctable. 

 

My real concern going forward is McDermott.  His in game management and understanding of the situation is horrible and has been since he got here. I don't know how you fix that.

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, gomper said:

This was the biggest game Allen ever played in by far, so I have faith he'll learn and grow for it.  No excuse for the D to forget the fundamentals but that is always correctable. 

 

My real concern going forward is McDermott.  His in game management and understanding of the situation is horrible and has been since he got here. I don't know how you fix that.

McDermott will learn.   I'm not worried about him.

 

That thing about D fundamentals:   For me, the worst play the Bills made, by far, was having the entire pass defense shell take that ridiculously deep drop on 32rd and 18.   Some defender or defenders needed to move up when the back came out of the backfield.   It was inexcusable to give a free ten-yard run from where he caught the ball.  

[stuvian]

I came away thinking that our coaching staff squeezed everything out of the team. As bold as the opening drive was the rest of the playcalling was very tame. 

I didn't just want a win. I wanted a quality win that was richly deserved. 

As someone who wanted both Mahomes and Jackson it is gratifying to see that Josh Allen belongs with that group.

I feel good about the organization but just O.K. about our roster. 

We tried to cling to a 16 point lead but we're just not dominant enough and that's too small a lead to sit on 

[Shaw66]

53 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I came away thinking that our coaching staff squeezed everything out of the team. As bold as the opening drive was the rest of the playcalling was very tame. 

I didn't just want a win. I wanted a quality win that was richly deserved. 

As someone who wanted both Mahomes and Jackson it is gratifying to see that Josh Allen belongs with that group.

I feel good about the organization but just O.K. about our roster. 

We tried to cling to a 16 point lead but we're just not dominant enough and that's too small a lead to sit on 

Really nice to hear someone say Allen belongs in the same group.   

 

I've said for a year that Allen will be an elite QB in this league.   I think the odds of him being one of the elite 5 years from now are actually better than the other two.   I think the Bills have already shown how to contain running quarterbacks.   They contained Jackson and Watson, and I think other teams will do it, too.  I think size AND a strong arm will always make for the best QBs, and I think even Mahomes may struggle.   But regardless of where those two end up, I think Allen will be there.