sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He understands more than you give him credit for. He's been fighting this war for three+ years now and is winning. Reagan won. This guy aint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, sherpa said: Reagan won. This guy aint. All evidence proves you wrong to date. He survived something no other elected POTUS could have survived -- an attack from within. And came out stronger. And he's not done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Gary M said: He then tweeted that hiding behind culture will not stop him. We all know they aren't afraid to use civilians as shields, POTUS basically said I can get you anywhere any time, and I know where you are hiding. "Go ahead, make my day" 59 minutes ago, Koko78 said: It's amazing how many people intentionally ignored what he actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: All evidence proves you wrong to date. He survived something no other elected POTUS could have survived -- an attack from within. And came out stronger. And he's not done yet. He hasn't survived anything yet, and I honestly hope he does. The secret to good leadership though, is being leader enough to not having to "survive an attack from within." A good leader is convincing to the point that the attack never comes. This man is not a good leader at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Iran really needs to get it's ***** together regarding funerals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, sherpa said: He hasn't survived anything yet, and I honestly hope he does. The secret to good leadership though, is being leader enough to not having to "survive an attack from within." A good leader is convincing to the point that the attack never comes. This man is not a good leader at all. You assume that things are on the up and up. We've seen undeniable evidence the past three years they are not. You're basing your analysis on fiction rather than reality. It doesn't work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, bbb said: Iran really needs to get it's ***** together regarding funerals. my first memories of a funeral over there are Nasser's (Egypt 1971??) and they had dudes with huge bullwhips flailing at the crowds to keep them away from the casket they dropped Khomeini 3 times out of his casket during the procession Edited January 7, 2020 by row_33 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You assume that things are on the up and up. We've seen undeniable evidence the past three years they are not. You're basing your analysis on fiction rather than reality. It doesn't work that way. I am assuming that there is absolutely no need to deal with this guy's incompetence, whether as a businessman or a leader of a nation in possession of the greatest military and financial capability the world has ever known. I did a bit of financial work, formally and paid, on his "business" a few decades ago when he tried to launch a hostile bid on a company. Thank God he failed. I've watched him "fail" in many other endeavors that ended up in court, and those of a more personal nature that we all know about. I hoped he would work out, because I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for his competitor. He is in over his head, and everything suggests that, at it always has. All that aside, no matter the suggestion of his advanced skilled nuance, never visible in his track record heretofore, he has suggested that the US military will do something it doesn't, and won't do. If this is because he is brilliant, I'll admit it when I see it. What I see is stupid unnecessary nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, sherpa said: I am assuming that there is absolutely no need to deal with this guy's incompetence, whether as a businessman or a leader of a nation in possession of the greatest military and financial capability the world has ever known. I did a bit of financial work, formally and paid, on his "business" a few decades ago when he tried to launch a hostile bid on a company. Thank God he failed. I've watched him "fail" in many other endeavors that ended up in court, and those of a more personal nature that we all know about. I hoped he would work out, because I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for his competitor. He is in over his head, and everything suggests that, at it always has. All that aside, no matter the suggestion of his advanced skilled nuance, never visible in his track record heretofore, he has suggested that the US military will do something it doesn't, and won't do. If this is because he is brilliant, I'll admit it when I see it. What I see is stupid unnecessary nonsense. He survived an attack from the previous administration, who abused the massive powers of state/surveillance/law enforcement and its media apparatus. What was done to him was an assault on not just him, but our entire republic and the rule of law. No one could survive this by accident. Or luck. He survived because he was the only one who could -- and has turned the tables on the entire dirty cabal which has dominated our country for decades. That there is unending caterwauling from the very institutions and personnel who lied to the country for years for the sake of their own bank accounts is not unexpected. It's information warfare 101. No one is asking you to like the man, I'm not. I'm not even asking you to vote for him. I'm pointing out your analysis is wrong based on every single piece of evidence we've had uncovered the past several years. Reagan ate a bullet -- and it buckled him, made him a servant to these very same people. Trump took their shots and stomped them. And is continuing to do so. There's only two sides to this conflict. And you might not like who is running the show for the good guys, but he's the only one who could do what's been done so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, sherpa said: What I see is stupid unnecessary nonsense. still a tiny fraction of what McNamara and LBJ inflicted on the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, sherpa said: He hasn't survived anything yet, and I honestly hope he does. The secret to good leadership though, is being leader enough to not having to "survive an attack from within." A good leader is convincing to the point that the attack never comes. This man is not a good leader at all. Seriously? The attack came from within our own country yes, but in this political climate that has been increasingly getting worse, is that his fault? What say you about the treasonous acts of a John Kerry who is conspiring with Iran to upend our policies? Is that due to Trump's lack of leadership? Before Trump was even inaugurated the dems and media were calling for his impeachment. They have fought him with lies and fabrications for over 3 years. They just don't want to be led in the direction Trump and the majority of the American people want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 51 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He survived an attack from the previous administration, who abused the massive powers of state/surveillance/law enforcement and its media apparatus. What was done to him was an assault on not just him, but our entire republic and the rule of law. No one could survive this by accident. Or luck. Could anyone survive it by sheer incompetence? There's a movie plot in that: guy's elected who has no political experience, he's attacked by his enemies who tailor their attacks to someone with political experience, guy survives said attacks because he's too damn stupid and inexperienced to know that the attacks against him should work. Helps that his opponents are absolute morons, too. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 A step back. Only on social media would an individual like me be asked to defend John Kerry, Robert McNamara or LBJ because I think Trump's nonsense about cultural sites was a stupid, unforced error objectionable to the entire military. In the "only happens here" dept, and this site is more reasonable than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, sherpa said: A step back. Only on social media would an individual like me be asked to defend John Kerry, Robert McNamara or LBJ because I think Trump's nonsense about cultural sites was a stupid, unforced error objectionable to the entire military. In the "only happens here" dept, and this site is more reasonable than most. Of course, ***** hasn't really gotten real here until you've been accused of defending them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, DC Tom said: Of course, ***** hasn't really gotten real here until you've been accused of defending them. now it is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: He survived an attack from the previous administration, who abused the massive powers of state/surveillance/law enforcement and its media apparatus. What was done to him was an assault on not just him, but our entire republic and the rule of law. No one could survive this by accident. Or luck. He survived because he was the only one who could -- and has turned the tables on the entire dirty cabal which has dominated our country for decades. That there is unending caterwauling from the very institutions and personnel who lied to the country for years for the sake of their own bank accounts is not unexpected. It's information warfare 101. No one is asking you to like the man, I'm not. I'm not even asking you to vote for him. I'm pointing out your analysis is wrong based on every single piece of evidence we've had uncovered the past several years. Reagan ate a bullet -- and it buckled him, made him a servant to these very same people. Trump took their shots and stomped them. And is continuing to do so. There's only two sides to this conflict. And you might not like who is running the show for the good guys, but he's the only one who could do what's been done so far. Sherpa's right though. There's nothing in Trump's background that would indicate that he would be able to accomplish this if left to his own devices. Whenever he was faced with anyone who ignored his bluster, Trump lost bigly. Perhaps, Tom's explanation is the correct one, meaning that if Dems didn't go all in on a fake dossier and impeachment, Trump would have collapsed under his own weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, sherpa said: A step back. Only on social media would an individual like me be asked to defend John Kerry, Robert McNamara or LBJ because I think Trump's nonsense about cultural sites was a stupid, unforced error objectionable to the entire military. In the "only happens here" dept, and this site is more reasonable than most. No one asked you to defend John Kerry. John Kerry's name was brought up as an example of the headwinds Trump has faced in leading this country. You had basically stated that Trump was facing a mutiny because of his poor leadership. I was pointing out that the media and dems were looking to upend Trump before he was even inaugurated. That has nothing to do with any Trump lack of leadership but everything to do with the bias and partisanship of the dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, GG said: Sherpa's right though. There's nothing in Trump's background that would indicate that he would be able to accomplish this if left to his own devices. Whenever he was faced with anyone who ignored his bluster, Trump lost bigly. Perhaps, Tom's explanation is the correct one, meaning that if Dems didn't go all in on a fake dossier and impeachment, Trump would have collapsed under his own weight. It's almost as if people think of Trump as this guy: Regardless, he's succeeding, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: It's almost as if people think of Trump as this guy: No, he's not that clever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, DC Tom said: No, he's not that clever. Somehow through all his bungling he's presiding over an economy that is great, vastly improving border security, improved trade deals and significant prison reform. Just to name a few. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Taro T said: Did he actually say he'd target "cultural heritage sites" or "sites important to Iranian culture?" They might be the same thing, but don't see why they are necessarily conflated. Simply put, the leftists who don't like Trump (Busey, Tibs, Adams, etc) have themselves so spun up with hate that their brains have essentially turned to tapioca. Virtually everything that pukes out of their pieholes is just a slightly regurgitated twist to something Trump (or someone on the right )said to make it sound horrible. Then they repeat it over and over, kinda like how they insist Trump calling Mexican MS13 gang bangers monsters was really Trump calling all Mexicans monsters. Trump didn't say he'd target their cultural sites anymore than Pence said we killed the Iranian because of 9/11. That's the tapioca talking. Plain and simple. Edited January 7, 2020 by IDBillzFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: It's almost as if people think of Trump as this guy: Regardless, he's succeeding, eh? He's succeeding in the things he knows about, on everything else he's been given a great gift by a deranged left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Somehow through all his bungling he's presiding over an economy that is great, vastly improving border security, improved trade deals and significant prison reform. Just to name a few. Thank you! Thread closed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 47 minutes ago, GG said: Sherpa's right though. There's nothing in Trump's background that would indicate that he would be able to accomplish this if left to his own devices. Whenever he was faced with anyone who ignored his bluster, Trump lost bigly. Perhaps, Tom's explanation is the correct one, meaning that if Dems didn't go all in on a fake dossier and impeachment, Trump would have collapsed under his own weight. Perhaps he is succeeding because the system our forefathers set up, when not impeded by people bent on power over their "inferiors" and graft of the excess, actually works. Imagine what was gained simply by removing people like Kerry from the mix. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Perhaps he is succeeding because the system our forefathers set up, when not impeded by people bent on power over their "inferiors" and graft of the excess, actually works. Imagine what was gained simply by removing people like Kerry from the mix. I think you are right. The system our forefathers set up was incredibly prescient. There is a difference though, in seeking his removal or pointing out gross incompetence, and a stupid course that could lead to really serious problems. I'm just pointing out the incompetence. Removal is best done via elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, sherpa said: I think you are right. The system our forefathers set up was incredibly prescient. There is a difference though, in seeking his removal or pointing out gross incompetence, and a stupid course that could lead to really serious problems. I'm just pointing out the incompetence. Removal is best done via elections. Removal is ideally best done via elections but your alternative won't be so hot. Spoiler alert: Commie. And in case you haven't noticed, everything is a reason for removal. Bad ideas, good ideas, fake collaboration with Russia, imagined abuse of power, choice of frozen dessert. That's where we are dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Removal is ideally best done via elections but your alternative won't be so hot. Spoiler alert: Commie. And in case you haven't noticed, everything is a reason for removal. Bad ideas, good ideas, fake collaboration with Russia, imagined abuse of power, choice of frozen dessert. That's where we are dude. Not sure what you mean. I haven't proposed any alternative. I'm in favor of any election, whatever the result. I'm not in favor of this silly impeachment or any other extra-constitutional removal. Edited January 7, 2020 by sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, GG said: Sherpa's right though. There's nothing in Trump's background that would indicate that he would be able to accomplish this if left to his own devices. Whenever he was faced with anyone who ignored his bluster, Trump lost bigly. Perhaps, Tom's explanation is the correct one, meaning that if Dems didn't go all in on a fake dossier and impeachment, Trump would have collapsed under his own weight. and yet, he won the greatest prize of all by quite a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, sherpa said: A step back. Only on social media would an individual like me be asked to defend John Kerry, Robert McNamara or LBJ because I think Trump's nonsense about cultural sites was a stupid, unforced error objectionable to the entire military. In the "only happens here" dept, and this site is more reasonable than most. Please don't misunderstand me or my take -- I've got nothing but respect for you and your opinion even when we disagree. I did not say or mean to imply that you were defending anyone of those folk. I was just pointing out that you're judging Trump's actions based on a reality which no longer exists. The game has been exposed, the actual bad guys are on the run - not on the advance. This is a war unlike any other we've seen in our lifetimes, and it's changed everything if you're paying attention. Forming your analysis based on the old rules, which were set by the very people who are losing now and who ***** us over for decades, makes it impossible to see what's really happening. Trump is a tank. His job is to destroy the old guard and expose the game for the people to see what's actually happening. And he's brilliant at it. 1 hour ago, GG said: Sherpa's right though. There's nothing in Trump's background that would indicate that he would be able to accomplish this if left to his own devices. Whenever he was faced with anyone who ignored his bluster, Trump lost bigly. Perhaps, Tom's explanation is the correct one, meaning that if Dems didn't go all in on a fake dossier and impeachment, Trump would have collapsed under his own weight. He's not doing it alone. That's never been my assumption. He's got lots of help from very smart, and very capable people. Names you'll never know or hear about, because they work in the shadows not in the spotlight. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Could anyone survive it by sheer incompetence? There's a movie plot in that: guy's elected who has no political experience, he's attacked by his enemies who tailor their attacks to someone with political experience, guy survives said attacks because he's too damn stupid and inexperienced to know that the attacks against him should work. Helps that his opponents are absolute morons, too. ....so Tom, should we continue a presence in the Middle East?.....has anything changed for the good in the last 50-75 years?.....are we just spinning our wheels trying to convince these religion based warring factions to "play nice"?.....FULL DISCLOSURE: this is NOT some BS smart azz inquiry....you are very well connected and I am just interested in your perspective........ Edited January 7, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 hours ago, DC Tom said: And how many cultural heritage sites have been targeted so far? When the president threatens to break international law and violate treaties, it matters. But on a more important and unresolved note, he still hasn't justified the assassination, except clumsily linking it to 9-11 and to stop an imminent attack. They've handled the justification of the assassination poorly (no shock there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Please don't misunderstand me or my take -- I've got nothing but respect for you and your opinion even when we disagree. I did not say or mean to imply that you were defending anyone of those folk. I was just pointing out that you're judging Trump's actions based on a reality which no longer exists. The game has been exposed, the actual bad guys are on the run - not on the advance. This is a war unlike any other we've seen in our lifetimes, and it's changed everything if you're paying attention. Forming your analysis based on the old rules, which were set by the very people who are losing now and who ***** us over for decades, makes it impossible to see what's really happening. Trump is a tank. His job is to destroy the old guard and expose the game for the people to see what's actually happening. And he's brilliant at it. He's not doing it alone. That's never been my assumption. He's got lots of help from very smart, and very capable people. Names you'll never know or hear about, because they work in the shadows not in the spotlight. I honestly want to believe you, but the names of people who have either refused to serve his presidency, along with those who have resigned underpin the doubt I have in him that is made more evident by gross business failures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He's not doing it alone. That's never been my assumption. He's got lots of help from very smart, and very capable people. Names you'll never know or hear about, because they work in the shadows not in the spotlight. So exciting! The DeepER State! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, John Adams said: When the president threatens to break international law and violate treaties, it matters. But on a more important and unresolved note, he still hasn't justified the assassination, except clumsily linking it to 9-11 and to stop an imminent attack. They've handled the justification of the assassination poorly (no shock there). ...he'll probably call you tonight from the "Oval Office Hot Line"........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, sherpa said: I honestly want to believe you, but the names of people who have either refused to serve his presidency, along with those who have resigned underpin the doubt I have in him that is made more evident by gross business failures. I hear you. I really do. I didn't vote for him, and this is the last thing I expected to find when I began digging into it. But I go where the evidence leads, and it's overwhelming if you really look at it. If he ends up committing us to long term war/occupation in Iran, or lets the dirty cops/state officials he has dead to rights walk, then that calculus will change. Until then, he has them on the ropes. He has to drop the hammer to make it count though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...he'll probably call you tonight from the "Oval Office Hot Line"........ Is your period key rubbed clean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, John Adams said: Is your period key rubbed clean? ...it's Morse code......Putin told me I needed to use it......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, sherpa said: I think you are right. The system our forefathers set up was incredibly prescient. There is a difference though, in seeking his removal or pointing out gross incompetence, and a stupid course that could lead to really serious problems. I'm just pointing out the incompetence. Removal is best done via elections. Out of curiosity what current potential opponent would you vote for over Trump? I'm looking for someone that would keep the economy going strong, finishing up trade deals that most likely will extend beyond 2020, continue our improved border security while simultaneously working on the issues of the day. Who is out there who could be trusted to continue his agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Gary Busey said: 10 of the 12, but there were 19 The other 7 were just Democrat super delegates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Gary Busey said: They're not siding with a murderous General. They're questioning the timing and if it needed to be done. It's not just the left, either. It was great timing- General in Baghdad planning attacks- General sent to Allah - but no Virgins for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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