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Bucky Brooks :Lessons from Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson

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  • bucky_brooks-110726_65.jpg
  • By Bucky Brooks
  • NFL.com Analyst
  • Published: Dec. 6, 2019 at 04:26 p.m.
  • Updated: Dec. 6, 2019 at 05:42 p.m.
 

The 2018 quarterback class will change the way the NFL scouting community evaluates the position. While a lot of the attention during the pre-draft process that year focused on whether Baker Mayfield (No. 1 overall pick), Sam Darnold (No. 3) or Josh Rosen (No. 10) was the most pro-ready signal-caller from the group, the success of Josh Allen (No. 7) and Lamar Jackson (No. 32) -- who will meet on Sunday -- has scouts reviewing their notes and altering grading scales.

Instead of measuring potential QB1s against old-school prototypes, scouts are being forced to tweak the model for the position with the standard built around accuracy, judgment, athleticism and football character (intelligence, work ethic, leadership skills, and mental/physical toughness). Now, evaluators have frequently cited those traits as "must-haves" in the past, but the success of Jackson and Allen should prompt scouts to put an even greater emphasis on athleticism, judgment and football character over pinpoint ball placement.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001084590/article/lessons-from-josh-allen-lamar-jackson-mahomes-vs-patriots

Edited by HOUSE
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21 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

  • bucky_brooks-110726_65.jpg
  • By Bucky Brooks
  • NFL.com Analyst
  • Published: Dec. 6, 2019 at 04:26 p.m.
  • Updated: Dec. 6, 2019 at 05:42 p.m.
 

The 2018 quarterback class will change the way the NFL scouting community evaluates the position. While a lot of the attention during the pre-draft process that year focused on whether Baker Mayfield (No. 1 overall pick), Sam Darnold (No. 3) or Josh Rosen (No. 10) was the most pro-ready signal-caller from the group, the success of Josh Allen (No. 7) and Lamar Jackson (No. 32) -- who will meet on Sunday -- has scouts reviewing their notes and altering grading scales.

Instead of measuring potential QB1s against old-school prototypes, scouts are being forced to tweak the model for the position with the standard built around accuracy, judgment, athleticism and football character (intelligence, work ethic, leadership skills, and mental/physical toughness). Now, evaluators have frequently cited those traits as "must-haves" in the past, but the success of Jackson and Allen should prompt scouts to put an even greater emphasis on athleticism, judgment and football character over pinpoint ball placement.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001084590/article/lessons-from-josh-allen-lamar-jackson-mahomes-vs-patriots

really cool read! thanks for posting. I literally just got done reading it and came here to see if it had been posted yet. saved me the work! my favorite part was how he ended it:

 

"Overall, I believe the Week 14 matchup between the Ravens and Bills will become a teachable moment for executives and coaches around the league. Using Jackson and Allen as examples, decision-makers should encourage their scouts to focus on QB prospects' positives, use their imaginations during projections and find out more about their football character. Most importantly, they should urge their evaluators to keep an open mind when assessing athletic playmakers with a few flaws in their games.

With Jackson and Allen poised to lead their franchises into the playoffs despite the imperfections in their games, scouts better learn their lessons before dismissing a potential gem in a future quarterback class."

 

 

….. also if I remember correctly brooks was a fairly aggressive allen detractor as recently as this last summer.

Edited by Stank_Nasty
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If there is a lesson to learn from Allen it's that if a high upside guy is labeled inaccurate don't just right them off, look to see if there are reasons why and if those are things you can fix.

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Baker sucks...

 

Image result for baker mayfield4
Edited by HOUSE
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1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

also if I remember correctly brooks was a fairly aggressive allen detractor as recently as this last summer

Like politicians, football analysts count on short attention spans. 

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Bucky was the lone guy on NFL Network that had the Bills taking Allen as well. And to think at the time I wanted Rosen......glad to be wrong do far.

 

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Allen is a Stud already . Bottom Line.  Kid is a TRUE FRANCHISE QB! We've been waiting a Long Time . Feels amazing that we found our guy for the next decade + , after  experiencing such a brutal  15 years of disappointment. 

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Translation:  Maybe you really can't evaluate the pro potential of college QBs on the basis of completion percentage in a conventional offense.

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Mahomes and Watson were also considered question marks.

Edited by 4merper4mer
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There's just no special formula. "Focus on the positives and use your imagination" is about as good advice as any.

 

Just make sure the guy is a leader and has a good work ethic. After you draft him, focus on what he does well and try to teach the rest.

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The difference between Allen and Jackson. 

 

Jackson is much better of a runner and has been pretty accurate with this throws this year. Hes improved. The offense created for Jackson is very very strong. Now that Jackson can find the 1 on 1 matchups and put the ball in a good spot makes it almost impossible for defenses to stop him. 

 

Allen. From year 1 to year 2...Allen is becoming the signal caller. Everything he did poorly last year he improved on (greatly). Short game was weak. Its now a strength. Hes running the offense. It looks like he has full command of it. His poise in the pocket...night and day change. Audibles...making presnap calls, taking the time to look at defenses. Hes really trying to be a complete QB. I honestly expect him to be calling his own plays soon.

 

What im saying is that right now... There is room for growth for Allen because he can be whatever he needs to be when its needed.

 

While I think this might be the peak for Jackson....i mean its a pretty awesome peak and its good enough to win a superbowls so im not trying to take shots. 

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How is this so different than at any point? This just in, all draft picks at all positions are crap shoots. This just in, a good amount of top QB picks are outplayed by later picks. This just in, tape doesn't measure immeasurables. I'm not sure why this is even a story. Russell Wilson proved the majority wrong. Mahomes proved the majority wrong. Marriota and Winston proved the majority wrong. Bortles did. Goff may have. The list is endless.

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12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

There's just no special formula. "Focus on the positives and use your imagination" is about as good advice as any.

 

Just make sure the guy is a leader and has a good work ethic. After you draft him, focus on what he does well and try to teach the rest.

Yup.  I really like Bucky but this is all reactionary.  The reason I rated Allen and Jackson the same during their draft was while those both had very good upside, the overwhelming majority of similar players fail big time.  Jackson put up major production in a big time conference but there were questions about his arm and would he be able to put athletic nfl players. Allen put up non dominant numbers in a lower conference.  I would assume the same things about similar players coming out.
 

what buffalo (not his rookie year but this year) and Baltimore have done is put both guys in good situations instead of whatever the hell Rosen is in. Now the key will be how both guys will progress in the following years.  But right now, they are outliners just like Tom Brady in the 6th round.

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17 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

How is this so different than at any point? This just in, all draft picks at all positions are crap shoots. This just in, a good amount of top QB picks are outplayed by later picks. This just in, tape doesn't measure immeasurables. I'm not sure why this is even a story. Russell Wilson proved the majority wrong. Mahomes proved the majority wrong. Marriota and Winston proved the majority wrong. Bortles did. Goff may have. The list is endless.

Yeah, Brooks has an obvious point but his article is kind of useless.

For me, seeing Russel Wilson at Wisconsin be successful in the NFL started me thinking.

The factor Brooks misses is assessing how well a quarterback makes quick, intelligent decisions under fire.  That's the key factor along with leadership abilities.

Mahomes was easy to see this, as was Baker.  Lamar was surprising for me because his game was one dimensional but when I watched his film it was obvious to see him reading the defense and receivers when needed.  So despite his flaws throwing I felt like he could make it in the NFL.

Of course, then you've got a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick who comes so close until his inaccuracy comes back to stifle him.

Crap shoot, indeed.

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I wonder how much of the success / failure of recent QB selections is also based on trying to get the player to fit the team’s system.  Like Brooks commenting on accentuating the positives, a team trying to put the proverbial square peg in a round hole might not fare as well as a team working an offensive game plan to suit the strengths of a particular player.

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On 12/7/2019 at 2:08 AM, LeGOATski said:

There's just no special formula. "Focus on the positives and use your imagination" is about as good advice as any.

 

Just make sure the guy is a leader and has a good work ethic. After you draft him, focus on what he does well and try to teach the rest.

 

This.  :thumbsup:    I think it's sometimes called the "it" factor.   It's not something that can be taught and learned but if a QB doesn't have that ability to make his teammates believe he's capable of marching the team down the field to a TD on any and every possession, he'll never really be more than a competent backup QB no matter how many positive measurables he has. I think that Ryan Tannehill demonstrates how a QB having "it" can elevate a team's performance.  The Titans that were an ineffective and uninspired offense under Mariotta turned into a scoring machine when Tannehill took over.

 

18 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  I really like Bucky but this is all reactionary.  The reason I rated Allen and Jackson the same during their draft was while those both had very good upside, the overwhelming majority of similar players fail big time.  Jackson put up major production in a big time conference but there were questions about his arm and would he be able to put athletic nfl players. Allen put up non dominant numbers in a lower conference.  I would assume the same things about similar players coming out.
 

what buffalo (not his rookie year but this year) and Baltimore have done is put both guys in good situations instead of whatever the hell Rosen is in. Now the key will be how both guys will progress in the following years.  But right now, they are outliners just like Tom Brady in the 6th round.

 

I agree that both Allen and Jackson are outliers.  It might very well be that they've found success because the teams that drafted them committed to them because the their teams took them in the first round (and spent some serious draft/talent capital in the process).   If they had been taken in the second or third round and only cost their teams the draft pick it took to get them, they might not have been given the support and opportunities that their teams have given them as first rounders.  If you look around at successful QBs taken outside the first round over the last two decades, most of them benefited from a big lucky break that gave them an opportunity to prove themselves.  I think the two most notable ones are Brady who might have remained an unheralded backup QB if Bledsoe had never been seriously hurt early in the 2001 season and Russell Wilson who may have never been given a good look in Seattle's TC if the Seahawks had had a good, established starting QB to lead their talented team.

 

 

Edited by SoTier

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On 12/6/2019 at 7:02 PM, Stank_Nasty said:

really cool read! thanks for posting. I literally just got done reading it and came here to see if it had been posted yet. saved me the work! my favorite part was how he ended it:

 

"Overall, I believe the Week 14 matchup between the Ravens and Bills will become a teachable moment for executives and coaches around the league. Using Jackson and Allen as examples, decision-makers should encourage their scouts to focus on QB prospects' positives, use their imaginations during projections and find out more about their football character. Most importantly, they should urge their evaluators to keep an open mind when assessing athletic playmakers with a few flaws in their games.

With Jackson and Allen poised to lead their franchises into the playoffs despite the imperfections in their games, scouts better learn their lessons before dismissing a potential gem in a future quarterback class."

 

 

….. also if I remember correctly brooks was a fairly aggressive allen detractor as recently as this last summer.

Ya but Brooks ego never striked me as inflated , like many others, especially the analytic guys, they seem to just be in straight denial that their projections were sooo far off. They are the WORSE. Especially that Football Outsider guy

Brooks nailed this article too.

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20 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

How is this so different than at any point? This just in, all draft picks at all positions are crap shoots. This just in, a good amount of top QB picks are outplayed by later picks. This just in, tape doesn't measure immeasurables. I'm not sure why this is even a story. Russell Wilson proved the majority wrong. Mahomes proved the majority wrong. Marriota and Winston proved the majority wrong. Bortles did. Goff may have. The list is endless.

I think the amount of top qb picks getting outplayed by later picks is directly tied to teams drafting them out of need instead of taking the best player available.  Some top drafted qb's end up being reaches due to poor incumbent play,  or to appease a fan base. I think that plays a part in why they fail

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3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I wonder how much of the success / failure of recent QB selections is also based on trying to get the player to fit the team’s system.  Like Brooks commenting on accentuating the positives, a team trying to put the proverbial square peg in a round hole might not fare as well as a team working an offensive game plan to suit the strengths of a particular player.

I think it can certainly play in to a lack of QB development, but look at us.  JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Cardale Jones, and EJ Manuel all got chances with other teams, often more than one team.  New system and coaches didn't matter.  

 

I would think a poorly or mis-developed QB would then develop with new coaching/systems but don't see many examples of it.  Anyone got some?

 

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20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  I really like Bucky but this is all reactionary.  The reason I rated Allen and Jackson the same during their draft was while those both had very good upside, the overwhelming majority of similar players fail big time.  Jackson put up major production in a big time conference but there were questions about his arm and would he be able to put athletic nfl players. Allen put up non dominant numbers in a lower conference.  I would assume the same things about similar players coming out.
 

what buffalo (not his rookie year but this year) and Baltimore have done is put both guys in good situations instead of whatever the hell Rosen is in. Now the key will be how both guys will progress in the following years.  But right now, they are outliners just like Tom Brady in the 6th round.

A fair portion of QB failure has been not putting the player in a position to be successful, there is a lot of unbending rigidity in the coaching fraternity. Or as said, a lack of imagination on the behalf of scouts, coaches and GMs. 

Just imagine what LJ would look like being forced to be a non scrambling pocket passer.

Edited by Don Otreply
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14 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

I think it can certainly play in to a lack of QB development, but look at us.  JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Cardale Jones, and EJ Manuel all got chances with other teams, often more than one team.  New system and coaches didn't matter.  

 

I would think a poorly or mis-developed QB would then develop with new coaching/systems but don't see many examples of it.  Anyone got some?

 

Alex Smith on his own team. He lasted about six years as the number one overall with very limited returns with lousy development, and then when Harbaugh and Greg Roman came in he almost immediately started to excel. 

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