The Athletic - Cover 1's breakdown of the game, more Allen than Daboll. Also adding some C1 & YPP twitter clips

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, billsfan_34 said:

For simplifying things -  17 designed runs vs 42 passes. Just not very balanced and hard to win that way, imo but I do respect yours - ? 

I think that's fair. My admittedly odd opinion - I don't think the Bills are a particularly good rushing team. I think they tend to get stoned at a disproportionately high level on obvious running downs, and neither RB has breakaway ability. The numbers admittedly look alright, and it's not as if they're terrible. I think the larger issue is they simply haven't been able to build two score leads, and that's partly a function of dreadful third quarter performances. They tend to find themselves in a lot of see saw battles where they have to pass late, even against bad teams. The Washington game was an exception, and the running numbers were big in that one. They were behind for most of the game vs Cleveland, NE, the Jets, and Philly, and the even the Dolphins and Cincy had late leads.  They threw it more than they ran it vs. TN (36 passes to 27 runs, with 10 by Allen), but Singletary was out in that game and the game was tied in the 4th quarter.  Just about all of their good running plays came on the final possession; prior to that they had rushed 18 times for 60 yards against a stout TN d-line. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Why doesn't Cover1 come back here and post his own stuff?  

 

Fundamentally, our TOS prohibit advertisements to promote other sites.  What's the line between sharing football information here, and using this site as a free promotional tool to direct traffic to your own site (advertise?)  I don't know, but several have been considered by SDS to have crossed it and asked to either cease promoting their site in their posts, or move on.

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Gotcha buddy I'll take a look...

 

The McKenzie play where Josh over threw him and got hit in the mouth?

 

IIRC, that was a play that Daboll specifically spoke to in his presser yesterday as an "Execution" issue - on the OL.  Said one of our OLmen hit another and knocked him enough off his block that pressure got to Josh and he couldn't make a clean throw (paraphrasing)

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

53 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Cleveland was 2-6 going into the game. 

So we ignore the talent?

 

The Jets beat the cowboys 

the falcons beat the Saints 

Belichick eats young QBs yet the Ravens won. 
 

crap happens 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Cover1 has been impressing the hell out of me this season. What an excellent write up from the game on Sunday

 

Some excerpts:
 

“There were opportunities in that game where I have to be better,” Allen said. “I have to put our offense in better situations, and I just didn’t do that today.”  The game film shows he’s right.

(....)

Linebacker Joe Schobert is responsible for RB Devin Singletary and Mack Wilson is the spy — a Browns setup we saw throughout the game. Allen sees that Knox isn’t blowing past Browns safety Morgan Burnett, so he makes the back-shoulder throw. Knox executes a “push-by,” slightly placing his right hand on Burnett’s back and pushing off as he rotates back to the ball. Allen’s throw is on the hands and Knox drops the ball./

 

Maybe it's just me, but did anyone else find it a bit odd that Erik (Cover1) quotes Allen taking all the blame and agrees, then gives several back to back examples where Allen made the correct read and a good decision and

    1) the pass hits Knox on the hands and he drops it

    2) Allen delivers a catchable ball to Brown and Denzel Ward punches it out of his hands successfully

etc?

 

I think it's important to note that while Allen was tested by the pressure and missed some throws he could have had, he also did a number of things well - which McDermott acknowledged in his post game presser. 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but did anyone else find it a bit odd that Erik (Cover1) quotes Allen taking all the blame and agrees, then gives several back to back examples where Allen made the correct read and a good decision and

    1) the pass hits Knox on the hands and he drops it

    2) Allen delivers a catchable ball to Brown and Denzel Ward punches it out of his hands successfully

etc?

 

I think it's important to note that while Allen was tested by the pressure and missed some throws he could have had, he also did a number of things well - which McDermott acknowledged in his post game presser. 

 

Cover1 is decent but not perfect by any means. They are not always correct in their analysis for me.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah the 2nd and 10 near the end of the third quarter, ball on BUF 43

Like cover 1 said it's sort of a leak concept that the rams use alot. Though McKenzie doesn't fake much of a block so it's hard to call it a true leak..  it's a mesh concept with a vertical up seam

 

McKenzie is fast but I wouldn't call him a true deep threat, he struggles tracking balls downfield while maintaining speed and I think the same happens

 

It wasn't a perfect pass and floated a bit outside his shoulder but he also doesn't look like he tracts it great

 

Most NFL deep threats have 5-10 foot catch radiuses. Think Moulds and TO and Green and Julio. They aren't 5'9 Smurfs that need a PERFECT BALL

 

That ball was within a couple steps and I don't think he tracked it perfectly. Imo a true NFL deep threat who can track a ball and might be a bit bigger could come down with that

 

I feel like all of our WRs look for the ball too early on deep balls .. the best guys leave 5-10% in the tank and can kick it into high gear when the ball is in the air

 

Our guys look like they slow down when tracking a ball

 

[BringBackOrton]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The modern age has turned everybody into an armchair GM and a scout 

 

Hindsight is 2020 and looking back at things are easy. Josh Allen wasn't the greatest but he wasn't bad. He made a good amount of big time throws

 

Cover 1 always tried to look for everything to make Tyrod look good and always had excuses for him. A 28 year old vet

 

Now we got a 23 year old with actual QB talent and he tries to put the pressure on him

 

Instead of an OC who DOESN'T DEVELOP RHYTHM OR AN IDENTITY THROUGHOUT 9 WEEKS OF THE SEASON

 

QBs don't develop overnight or in 2 games... It's a steady development over years and if you are angry about where Josh is in his development, idk what to tell you because he's way ahead of where I thought he'd be

 

 

Imagine claiming Allen is way better than he should be, but then saying his OC sucks.

[colin]

im a big cover 1 fan.

 

i think they get caught up in the x's and o's (well, that is their job) and give daboll to much love because he's creative in drawing up some plays that get people running around.  

the play design is just part of it, we need the OL to block well, the QB to read the play right and deliver the ball, and the WR to be precise and come down with it.  based on the talent we have at these positions, we just aren't good, and clevland is good at stopping it.  the constant pressure was just icing on the cake.  a lot of qbs would have had the ball strip sacked w the free runners clevland was getting.  not excusing allen, he still makes dumb moves but they are more about missing an open guy or throwing a bad ball rather than insane hero ball turnovers, so that's a plus!

 

singletery should be attempting at least 15 if not 20 rushes vs a garbage run d like cleavland.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Like cover 1 said it's sort of a leak concept that the rams use alot. Though McKenzie doesn't fake much of a block so it's hard to call it a true leak..  it's a mesh concept with a vertical up seam

 

McKenzie is fast but I wouldn't call him a true deep threat, he struggles tracking balls downfield while maintaining speed and I think the same happens

 

It wasn't a perfect pass and floated a bit outside his shoulder but he also doesn't look like he tracts it great

 

Most NFL deep threats have 5-10 foot catch radiuses. Think Moulds and TO and Green and Julio. They aren't 5'9 Smurfs that need a PERFECT BALL

 

That ball was within a couple steps and I don't think he tracked it perfectly. Imo a true NFL deep threat who can track a ball and might be a bit bigger could come down with that

 

I feel like all of our WRs look for the ball too early on deep balls .. the best guys leave 5-10% in the tank and can kick it into high gear when the ball is in the air

 

Our guys look like they slow down when tracking a ball

 

This is what I see as well. Again, not saying Allen hasn't been struggling connecting deep, but this one particular play is an example of lack of talent/experience at wideout instead of QB error.

 

McKenzie is looking for the ball when he hits the 30 for some reason, which is while Allen is still looking off the safety...maybe he was so excited about getting on top of the DB that quick he wasn't concentrating on finishing the route and wanted to secure the catch...no idea what was going through his head. He (McKenzie) twists and turns twice before the ball's even in the air and it kills his route, he's not balanced, and never going to make that play. He doesn't even know where the ball is. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I feel like all of our WRs look for the ball too early on deep balls .. the best guys leave 5-10% in the tank and can kick it into high gear when the ball is in the air

Our guys look like they slow down when tracking a ball

 

I have had that thought myself.  The best deep ball threat WR can gain separation running at 95%, and have 5% left to kick it up for a long throw.

That wouldn't always help but it would turn some misses into completions.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Imagine claiming Allen is way better than he should be, but then saying his OC sucks.

I don't think I said the words suck. He is as inconsistent as Allen and that's why the offense is

 

We haven't developed an identity in 2 years Dabolls been here. He will call 2 good series than 2 bad ones

 

Allen needs consistency in his coaching and gameplanning if he wants to find consistency in his play. 2 way Street

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think I said the words suck. He is as inconsistent as Allen and that's why the offense is

 

We haven't developed an identity in 2 years Dabolls been here. He will call 2 good series than 2 bad ones

 

Allen needs consistency in his coaching and gameplanning if he wants to find consistency in his play. 2 way Street

You said, “instead of,” as if it was one’s fault instead of the other. 

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Like cover 1 said it's sort of a leak concept that the rams use alot. Though McKenzie doesn't fake much of a block so it's hard to call it a true leak..  it's a mesh concept with a vertical up seam

 

McKenzie is fast but I wouldn't call him a true deep threat, he struggles tracking balls downfield while maintaining speed and I think the same happens

 

It wasn't a perfect pass and floated a bit outside his shoulder but he also doesn't look like he tracts it great

 

Most NFL deep threats have 5-10 foot catch radiuses. Think Moulds and TO and Green and Julio. They aren't 5'9 Smurfs that need a PERFECT BALL

 

That ball was within a couple steps and I don't think he tracked it perfectly. Imo a true NFL deep threat who can track a ball and might be a bit bigger could come down with that

 

I feel like all of our WRs look for the ball too early on deep balls .. the best guys leave 5-10% in the tank and can kick it into high gear when the ball is in the air

 

Our guys look like they slow down when tracking a ball

 

 

Like this play?

 

Sorry I don't know how to embed Tweets

 

Looks like Allen throws it to where McKenzie starts out running, but the McKenzie veers from his route and can't seem to track the ball at all.  It's a very odd route.  Was it supposed to be an outside post?   

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

This is what I see as well. Again, not saying Allen hasn't been struggling connecting deep, but this one particular play is an example of lack of talent/experience at wideout instead of QB error.

 

McKenzie is looking for the ball when he hits the 30 for some reason, which is while Allen is still looking off the safety...maybe he was so excited about getting on top of the DB that quick he wasn't concentrating on finishing the route and wanted to secure the catch...no idea what was going through his head. He (McKenzie) twists and turns twice before the ball's even in the air and it kills his route, he's not balanced, and never going to make that play. He doesn't even know where the ball is. 

 

McKenzie is just not a complete WR.  They are trying to push him into that role because until/unless he poses a threat on other routes, he's become a "tell" that the Bills will be running some kind of Jet sweep type play.  To his credit, he made a nice reception on a slant pass in the Redskins game.

 

But why the Bills keep trying to use guys as deep ball receivers who just ARE NOT (I'm talking about you, Zay Jones and Cole Beasley, and now McKensie too) I do not know

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Cover1 has been impressing the hell out of me this season. What an excellent write up from the game on Sunday

 

Some excerpts:
 

“There were opportunities in that game where I have to be better,” Allen said. “I have to put our offense in better situations, and I just didn’t do that today.”

 

The game film shows he’s right. Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks, like other coaches against the Bills this season, pressured the second-year quarterback. Wilks has blitzed 34 percent of the time this season, which is the fourth most in the NFL. On Sunday, Wilks chose to blitz Allen on 41 percent of his dropbacks, using a variety of bluff blitzes, edge pressures and Cover 0 looks to get into Allen’s head.

 

Wilks and the Browns defense let the Bills operate in the short and intermediate areas. But when the visiting team got to third down, the Browns clamped down.

 

The New England Patriots laid out a defensive blueprint in their 16-10 win over the Bills in Week 4, and other teams have taken notice. The Browns crowded the line of scrimmage and forced Allen to make the correct pre- and post-snap decisions. Buffalo finished the game 5-for-13 on third down and 0-for-2 on fourth down.

 

Linebacker Joe Schobert is responsible for RB Devin Singletary and Mack Wilson is the spy — a Browns setup we saw throughout the game. Allen sees that Knox isn’t blowing past Browns safety Morgan Burnett, so he makes the back-shoulder throw. Knox executes a “push-by,” slightly placing his right hand on Burnett’s back and pushing off as he rotates back to the ball. Allen’s throw is on the hands and Knox drops the ball.

 

This time, Daboll gives Allen the perfect play to beat man coverage. He short-motions WR Beasley behind Brown so the corners have to wait until after the snap to decide who they’re covering.The Bills provide strong protection on this six-man pressure and Allen completes the pass to Beasley with plenty of green ahead of him.

 

The Bills provide strong protection on this six-man pressure and Allen completes the pass to Beasley with plenty of green ahead of him.He has to make a split-second decision on where to go with the ball. Singletary still manages to get a piece of the corner and the linemen pick up the pressure well. Allen simply panics, likely seeing a soft edge and the “wall defender” with his backed turned.
 

On Monday, Daboll credited Wilks for his play-call on that third down. Daboll called a good second half overall, but Wilks’ defensive strategy caused Allen to struggle. The Bills offense had some advantageous one-on-one matchups, but Daboll may have relied on them too much when he would have been better served scheming throws to give Allen easier solutions.

 

Wilks consistently bluffed and/or blitzed Allen, forcing the quarterback to go through his pre- and post-snap processes more quickly than he is used to at this point in his career. When pressured, Allen was 6-for-16 for 65 yard (37.5 percent completion rate), averaging 4.1 yards per attempt and taking one sack.

 

The Bills knew the Browns played an attacking style of defense and they failed to execute consistently against the aggressive looks. Due to the Browns’ success, teams will look to pressure Allen more on third-and-medium situations. Will the results against Cleveland serve as a learning experience for Allen and the offense?

 

https://theathletic.com/1369299/2019/11/12/bills-film-room-the-browns-beat-josh-allen-with-their-pressure-schemes-and-provided-a-blueprint/

Funny but I’ve been saying the same thing for weeks and have been labeled as someone with a “crusade” who is “jaded”

If anyone thinks that replacing Daboll will suddenly fix Josh’s shortcomings, and if you buy into Turner’s film analysis, you might be mistaken.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McKenzie is just not a complete WR.  They are trying to push him into that role because until/unless he poses a threat on other routes, he's become a "tell" that the Bills will be running some kind of Jet sweep type play.  To his credit, he made a nice reception on a slant pass in the Redskins game.

 

But why the Bills keep trying to use guys as deep ball receivers who just ARE NOT (I'm talking about you, Zay Jones and Cole Beasley, and now McKensie too) I do not know

 

Because they didn't draft a deep ball guy.

 

You know where i'm going with this.

 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have had that thought myself.  The best deep ball threat WR can gain separation running at 95%, and have 5% left to kick it up for a long throw.

That wouldn't always help but it would turn some misses into completions.

 

 

I think that if you watched most NFL receivers, they're looking back early too. People on this board ripped John Brown for allegedly looking back early on an overthrown deep ball too, but neglected to mention that he's a great deep receiver who has been running good deep routes and catching bombs for years. It's not as if receivers run 30 yards down the field and turn their head at just the right moment with the ball falling magically into their breadbasket. They have to look back to be aware of what's coming and where it's going to land. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by dave mcbride

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McKenzie is just not a complete WR.  They are trying to push him into that role because until/unless he poses a threat on other routes, he's become a "tell" that the Bills will be running some kind of Jet sweep type play.  To his credit, he made a nice reception on a slant pass in the Redskins game.

 

But why the Bills keep trying to use guys as deep ball receivers who just ARE NOT (I'm talking about you, Zay Jones and Cole Beasley, and now McKensie too) I do not know

He's young still, very fast...they're trying to develop these guys imo. That was a chance for McKenzie to show out and he didn't. But they're being consistent in giving these guys opportunities by putting them in spots to succeed. I think Brown makes that play but maybe doesn't get as open because he gets more attention from the secondary. I think maybe Foster makes that play but he's in the doghouse atm. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

You said, “instead of,” as if it was one’s fault instead of the other. 

It is the coaches job to create an identity on their side of the ball

 

My instead of was pointing out that we haven't had an identity or consistent gameplanning

 

Josh needs to clean up lots of stuff but he also needs consistent gameplanning and an offensive identity to build around

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Funny but I’ve been saying the same thing for weeks and have been labeled as someone with a “crusade” who is “jaded”

If anyone thinks that replacing Daboll will suddenly fix Josh’s shortcomings, and if you buy into Turner’s film analysis, you might be mistaken.

This is why in this post, with the selections I gave were the Josh plays and nothing on Daboll - everyone see's issues with flow and going away from what works - this is discussed in like 45673 other threads...

 

It's okay to say Josh still has a way to go and point out the areas he needs to grow in. That doesn't make you a hater, it makes you someone who can look at the entire situation critically and grasp what is actually going on...

[Nextmanup]

It's not surprising at all that this piece is not well received at this forum.

 

It's much easier for folks around here to blame Daboll than accept that Allen isn't very good.

 

Fixing the OC is a quicker/easier process than finding a decent QB.

 

As I keep saying, eventually Allen's mediocrity will not be a debatable point.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

He's young still, very fast...they're trying to develop these guys imo. That was a chance for McKenzie to show out and he didn't. But they're being consistent in giving these guys opportunities by putting them in spots to succeed. I think Brown makes that play but maybe doesn't get as open because he gets more attention from the secondary. I think maybe Foster makes that play but he's in the doghouse atm. 

I truly respect your opinion, but i don't think anyone is catching that ball. I just think it was flat out overthrown, like all of the others. Every week I feel like we have a debate about the WR looking back to early or not cutting his route short or slowing up at the crucial moment on the deep throws. They're just not accurate, plain and simple. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I truly respect your opinion, but i don't think anyone is catching that ball. I just think it was flat out overthrown, like all of the others. Every week I feel like we have a debate about the WR looking back to early or not cutting his route short or slowing up at the crucial moment on the deep throws. They're just not accurate, plain and simple. 

I know we aren't going to agree about this play. And for sure I'm not absolving Allen of his very real struggles with connecting on deep passes this year at all. Just discussing this play in particular, in isolation.

[billsfan_34]

44 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think that's fair. My admittedly odd opinion - I don't think the Bills are a particularly good rushing team. I think they tend to get stoned at a disproportionately high level on obvious running downs, and neither RB has breakaway ability. The numbers admittedly look alright, and it's not as if they're terrible. I think the larger issue is they simply haven't been able to build two score leads, and that's partly a function of dreadful third quarter performances. They tend to find themselves in a lot of see saw battles where they have to pass late, even against bad teams. The Washington game was an exception, and the running numbers were big in that one. They were behind for most of the game vs Cleveland, NE, the Jets, and Philly, and the even the Dolphins and Cincy had late leads.  They threw it more than they ran it vs. TN (36 passes to 27 runs, with 10 by Allen), but Singletary was out in that game and the game was tied in the 4th quarter.  Just about all of their good running plays came on the final possession; prior to that they had rushed 18 times for 60 yards against a stout TN d-line. 

Your opinion is not odd- it is yours and respectful- something we need more of on here.  Let me add- 18 for 60 is a little over 3 a clip- not good enough but if you keep at it you will knock a few out and bring those numbers up- cheers and go Bills.

[Phil The Thrill]

10 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

This is why in this post, with the selections I gave were the Josh plays and nothing on Daboll - everyone see's issues with flow and going away from what works - this is discussed in like 45673 other threads...

 

It's okay to say Josh still has a way to go and point out the areas he needs to grow in. That doesn't make you a hater, it makes you someone who can look at the entire situation critically and grasp what is actually going on...

Well said, my man.  I’ve stated many times that I like Josh, but I also get frustrated by the whole “fire the coordinator” mindset of some Bills fans.   I get that people want to defend Allen because so many in the media constantly criticize him. 

It just seems like people want to #blameDaboll because they don’t to face the unpleasant reality that, the critics might be right.  At this point, we just don’t know.  
 

At this point in the year, do you honestly think that firing Daboll and replacing him with Ken Dorsey or Chad Hall or whoever else is on the staff will make a difference?  I am certain it won’t.  
 

As for next season, I would still bet on Daboll staying.  I think they want as much consistency for Allen as possible and I also think that McDermott is in no danger of getting fired.   Since he’s not desperate I can see him not making a move.  
 

But then again, he voiced that the offense needs to “score more point,” and statement like that reminded me of what he said about Dennison in the season before he fired him.  So who knows.  
 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Like this play?

 

Sorry I don't know how to embed Tweets

 

Looks like Allen throws it to where McKenzie starts out running, but the McKenzie veers from his route and can't seem to track the ball at all.  It's a very odd route.  Was it supposed to be an outside post?   

 

You can see McKenzie looking for the ball around 45 on his outside shoulder. Maybe he is expecting it to that shoulder

 

But he shuffles his head a few times trying to track it and undoubtedly slows himself down instead of running to a spot

 

That was a leak mesh vertical concept the rams run alot. They usually design it closer to the sidelines where it looks like McKenzie takes it up the seam

 

He tracks it over his outside shoulder where it looks like it's going then looks like he tries to go back to his inside shoulder, and loses it

 

It's a very similar concept to where baker hit Landry over his outside shoulder late in game

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It is the coaches job to create an identity on their side of the ball

 

My instead of was pointing out that we haven't had an identity or consistent gameplanning

 

Josh needs to clean up lots of stuff but he also needs consistent gameplanning and an offensive identity to build around

If he can’t make reads or throws, the game plan matter.  You have to be able to execute

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

 

 

 

You can see McKenzie looking for the ball around 45 on his outside shoulder. Maybe he is expecting it to that shoulder

 

But he shuffles his head a few times trying to track it and undoubtedly slows himself down instead of running to a spot

 

That was a leak mesh vertical concept the rams run alot. They usually design it closer to the sidelines where it looks like McKenzie takes it up the seam

 

He tracks it over his outside shoulder where it looks like it's going then looks like he tries to go back to his inside shoulder, and loses it

 

It's a very similar concept to where baker hit Landry over his outside shoulder late in game

 

 

 

Right.  I'm not a football expert at all.  But from experience, throwing a football (or a frisbee) on a deep line to a moving target is hard enough - but it gets really tough when you don't know which way the guy is going to break.  That's why you would prefer to have the route oriented toward a particular flag or the goalpost.  It looked to me like Allen threw that one straight on the line McK was running, and that if McK had just kept running that line it might've hit him in stride.  But the way that play worked out suggests to me it hasn't been practiced enough...

Edited November 12, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[Phil The Thrill]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McKenzie is just not a complete WR.  They are trying to push him into that role because until/unless he poses a threat on other routes, he's become a "tell" that the Bills will be running some kind of Jet sweep type play.  To his credit, he made a nice reception on a slant pass in the Redskins game.

 

But why the Bills keep trying to use guys as deep ball receivers who just ARE NOT (I'm talking about you, Zay Jones and Cole Beasley, and now McKensie too) I do not know

it’s tough for a WR to be a deep ball threat when your QB is constantly throwing the ball 20 yards over your head.   
 

Would better WR’s help Josh out more?  Probably, but it’s hard to find more fault with the team’s WRs than the play of the QB

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

it’s tough for a WR to be a deep ball threat when your QB is constantly throwing the ball 20 yards over your head.   
 

Would better WR’s help Josh out more?  Probably, but it’s hard to find more fault with the team’s WRs than the play of the QB

WHY do you continue to make total exaggerations to make your points?

 

NONE of these balls have been "20 yards over there head"   In McKenzie's case....he slowed down when he turned his head around tracking the ball....look at the film.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Right.  I'm not a football expert at all.  But from experience, throwing a football (or a frisbee) on a deep line to a moving target is hard enough - but it gets really tough when you don't know which way the guy is going to break.  That's why you would prefer to have the route oriented toward a particular flag or the goalpost.  It looked to me like Allen threw that one straight on the line McK was running, and that if McK had just kept running that line it might've hit him in stride.  But the way that play worked out suggests to me it hasn't been practiced enough...

The way that concept is usually drawn up I would believe McKenzie should have stayed down the seam or possibly slightly drifting towards the sideline to give Allen more room

[Phil The Thrill]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

WHY do you continue to make total exaggerations to make your points?

 

NONE of these balls have been "20 yards over there head"   In McKenzie's case....he slowed down when he turned his head around tracking the ball....look at the film.

Maybe not last week, but yes there was a bomb to either John Brown or Andre Roberts that was close to 20 yards over their head and landed in the endzone in the Washington game.  It was a gross overthrow

Edited November 12, 2019 by Phil The Thrill

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

Maybe not last week, but yes there was a bomb to either John Brown or Andre Roberts that was close to 20 yards over their head and landed in the endzone in the Washington game.  It was a gross overthrow

Not 20 yards......

 

Five yards?   Yes

Overthrown?  Yes (except the one Foster failed to track)

 

It really is not needed to prove your point to say something that is not true....Josh has had problems with his deep ball.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Not 20 yards......

 

Five yards?   Yes

Overthrown?  Yes (except the one Foster failed to track)

 

It really is not needed to prove your point to say something that is not true....Josh has had problems with his deep ball.

 

Come on......

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

The modern age has turned everybody into an armchair GM and a scout 

 

Hindsight is 2020 and looking back at things are easy. Josh Allen wasn't the greatest but he wasn't bad. He made a good amount of big time throws

 

Cover 1 always tried to look for everything to make Tyrod look good and always had excuses for him. A 28 year old vet

 

Now we got a 23 year old with actual QB talent and he tries to put the pressure on him

 

Instead of an OC who DOESN'T DEVELOP RHYTHM OR AN IDENTITY THROUGHOUT 9 WEEKS OF THE SEASON

 

QBs don't develop overnight or in 2 games... It's a steady development over years and if you are angry about where Josh is in his development, idk what to tell you because he's way ahead of where I thought he'd be

 

 

If you think Cover 1 has any sort of vendetta against Allen or was pro-Tyrod and looks for ways to bash Allen, you're nuts.

Allen wasn't "bad" on Sunday, you're right. But he also wasn't GOOD ENOUGH to beat the Browns. The Browns packed the box against the Bills, blitzed over 40% of the time, and dared the Bills to beat them through the air, and the Bills couldn't. Josh Allen completed 53.7% of his passes and threw zero touchdowns. That's not good enough against an average to below average Browns defense.

People who exclusively blame Brian Daboll are ignoring the many plays he calls where wide receivers ARE open and Allen can't or won't throw to them. It happens a lot. It happened a lot on Sunday. 

I'm not an Allen hater. I like him and want him to succeed. Just look at my avatar. However, to put all of the blame on Daboll and completely absolve Allen is a chickenshit copout, in my opinion.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

If you think Cover 1 has any sort of vendetta against Allen or was pro-Tyrod and looks for ways to bash Allen, you're nuts.

Allen wasn't "bad" on Sunday, you're right. But he also wasn't GOOD ENOUGH to beat the Browns. The Browns packed the box against the Bills, blitzed over 40% of the time, and dared the Bills to beat them through the air, and the Bills couldn't. Josh Allen completed 53.7% of his passes and threw zero touchdowns. That's not good enough against an average to below average Browns defense.

People who exclusively blame Brian Daboll are ignoring the many plays he calls where wide receivers ARE open and Allen can't or won't throw to them. It happens a lot. It happened a lot on Sunday. 

I'm not an Allen hater. I like him and want him to succeed. Just look at my avatar. However, to put all of the blame on Daboll and completely absolve Allen is a chickenshit copout, in my opinion.

Every single OC draws up plays where guys run open. Guys run open on every team in every game and QBs miss them

 

The OC needs to create rhythm and an identity, something we don't have

 

And Im not saying he had a vandetta against Josh but he DEFINITELY made lots excuses for TT while here.. 

 

Josh deserves tons of credit for where he has gone from last to this season

Edited November 12, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Luka]

Allen is the 4th most blitzed QB in the league, has the 6th most drops in the league. I'll wait for Cover 1 to come out with a feature about what Daboll is doing to mitigate that. That would take some actual film study to find instances where Daboll has set the offense up for success. I'd also love to see some stat or analytics or whatever they can come up with that supports these deep shots on crucial 3rd down and shorts. Or hell, even a reason why we continue to call deep shots down the right side of the field where Allen's accuracy is weakest, historically.

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Not 20 yards......

 

Five yards?   Yes

Overthrown?  Yes (except the one Foster failed to track)

 

It really is not needed to prove your point to say something that is not true....Josh has had problems with his deep ball.

Does it really matter if it was overthrown by 5, 10 or 20 yards?  It wasn’t close and our QB is 0-16 on passes of 30 yards or more.  It’s a problem!

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Every single OC draws up plays where guys run open. Guys run open on every team in every game and QBs miss them

 

The OC needs to create rhythm and an identity, something we don't have

 

And Im not saying he had a vandetta against Josh but he DEFINITELY made lots excuses for TT while here.. 

 

Josh deserves tons of credit for where he has gone from last to this season

I agree that Josh deserves credit for the steps he has already taken as a quarterback. What I DON'T like seeing, though, is people putting on blinders and pretending like he's immune from criticism. He has progressed, yes, but he has a long way to go. He currently has the 30th ranked QB rating and 31st ranked completion percentage in the NFL, for instance. He has thrown just 10 TDs throw 9 games, despite playing some of the worst teams in the NFL.

Furthermore, as far as "creating rhythm"...how is an offense supposed to have any rhythm when the quarterback fails to hit open receivers so often? How are we supposed to know what identity the offense WANTS to exhibit when the field general of that offense plays so inconsistently and, at times, poorly? 

I'm not saying it's JUST on Allen. The Bills offense is a combo platter of suck right now. Daboll deserves some blame. I absolutely agree with that. But to say that he deserves the lion's share of the blame or to try to completely absolve Allen of responsibility for how poor the offense is? That's rubbish.

3 minutes ago, Luka said:

Allen is the 4th most blitzed QB in the league, has the 6th most drops in the league. I'll wait for Cover 1 to come out with a feature about what Daboll is doing to mitigate that. That would take some actual film study to find instances where Daboll has set the offense up for success. I'd also love to see some stat or analytics or whatever they can come up with that supports these deep shots on crucial 3rd down and shorts. Or hell, even a reason why we continue to call deep shots down the right side of the field where Allen's accuracy is weakest, historically.

Did you not pay attention at all to the breakdowns and GIFs from the Browns game? Cover 1 already DID show that there were options on some -- not all, it's true, but more than a few -- of the plays in which Allen either took a sack or threw an incompletion. Yes, Daboll can do more to help Allen, but Allen needs to start to learn to help himself. He needs to take more steps toward being a big boy quarterback. It's not all on the OC. Daboll is an easy scapegoat right now, because it's easier to want to fire the OC than it is to admit that the 1st round, prize young QB isn't getting the job done. It's not an either/or proposition. BOTH need to improve. But this "it's all on Daboll!" stuff has gotta stop. It's ridiculous.

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Not 20 yards......

 

Five yards?   Yes

Overthrown?  Yes (except the one Foster failed to track)

 

It really is not needed to prove your point to say something that is not true....Josh has had problems with his deep ball.

C'mon John. "20 yards" is more for effect than anything else - he's basically indicating that the balls aren't catchable. Even you aren't that much of a homer to defend Josh A's deep game this season, right? He's been good in other areas, but him hitting zero deep balls has knock-on effects with regard to how teams defend us and the degree to which they're willing to gamble.