Bengals release Preston Brown

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027521/article/seahawks-agree-to-trade-frank-clark-to-chiefs-for-draft-picks

 

Clark had been tagged by the Seahawks. 

 

Oh it happens! I do not deny that. But it happens very rarely. Too rarely to just assume success as a given. 

[r00tabaga]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

SO ABSOLUTELY NO Data to back up your opinion vs actual Data.  Yeah I think I know I am right that he would have gotten at least a first.  Hell Mikah Fitzpatrick gets a first.   

Like the newer avatar. +1

When you switching back tho? Lol-

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

So Wasnt 

Dee Ford

Clowney

 

Clowney was given up for a song. That was a terrible trade by Houston and a great one by Seattle. He's one of the most dominating players in the league and incredibly underrated because of the focus on raw sack numbers. 

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do it.  Put him at the Mike and move Edmunds to the Elephant role, let him rush the passer where he has a chance to be ELITE.  You want to shake things up and tilt the field a bit?  Time to make a move, McBeane.

People may laugh coach but the sooner we get Edmunds to the outside the better. He is NOT A MLB!!! 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Is that a serious comment? You have posted 16,000 times on this board. You obviously love the Bills and love football.  There is no way you can spend that much time thinking about football and think that Fitzpatrick comment makes any sense.  I'll make it simple: The overwhelming value of a trade is dictated by how many years the receiving team will have that player and at what cost. So, the Steelers received Minkah for 3 more years on a low-cost rookie deal.  In the Gilmore Scenario, the receiving team gets Gilmore for 1 year at the most expensive price tag in the NFL.  Do you see why the former is worth more (higher pick) than the latter?  I refuse to believe you do not understand this concept, but that Fitzpatrick comment tells me you don't. 

And yet I just showed you an expiring contract at the same position with the same stats got a 1st and a 4th in 2013.   So yeah I really do think you do not understand value.

 

Or Ramsey once year left (lesser stats) gets 2 1sts and a 4th this year.

 

If a team calls about Tre White would he bring a first?

[Artem Lipatov]

He was very decent when playd in Buffalo. Why did he regress?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Artem Lipatov

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Clowney was given up for a song. That was a terrible trade by Houston and a great one by Seattle. He's one of the most dominating players in the league and incredibly underrated because of the focus on raw sack numbers. 

 

True they were offered more earlier but that is what you get when the HC is unqualified to make that decision.  

 

But the Tag and Trade just happened 3 times this year. guess it is no longer Rare

[r00tabaga]

We should sign him so that Edmunds can move to OLB and Oliver to DE!

LOL-

 

I'll hang up and listen...

[MAJBobby]

Just now, r00tabaga said:

Like the newer avatar. +1

When you switching back tho? Lol-

3 weeks left have to have the Pats avatar for a month

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, you gotta get better if you want to do anything other than backing into the playoffs and losing a first round game ... sometimes that means taking chances. 

Yeah but that's not a chance.  That's foolhardy.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, r00tabaga said:

We should sign him so that Edmunds can move to OLB and Oliver to DE!

LOL-

 

I'll hang up and listen...

 

I just want him for Depth, and to help against the Run

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think he fits more into a 3-4, he is solid in run support but bad in coverage. If we started running more 3-4 looks then he might have a little value. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think he fits more into a 3-4, he is solid in run support but bad in coverage. If we started running more 3-4 looks then he might have a little value. 

 

If Milano or Lorax go down I would feel a heck of alot better with Brown coming in over Stanford or Thompson

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

He was probably my least favorite player on this team because of how slow he was.......but he might actually be of use on run downs 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

And yet I just showed you an expiring contract at the same position with the same stats got a 1st and a 4th in 2013.   So yeah I really do think you do not understand value.

 

Or Ramsey once year left (lesser stats) gets 2 1sts and a 4th this year.

 

If a team calls about Tre White would he bring a first?

 

Tre White is still here for two years! We don't have any reason to believe Tre White is going to hold out! The team calling for Tre White doesn't have reason to believe that if they are patient they can just sign the player and not give up any picks! 

 

Revis and Ramsey were all-pro players!! Teams didn't even throw their way.  That is not even remotely true of Gilmore. 

 

I appreciate that you are pulling a bunch of data points, but none of them actually warrant your claim. It is not about stats, it is about league perception and market value. You have no idea how the league, as a whole, viewed Gilmore (we only have the pro-bowl and the Pats contract). That is why I keep bringing up Ramsey and Revis' all-pro status. It clearly defined how the league saw those guys.  We also have no idea what Gilmore's market was.  We do not know how many teams would have been interested in him, and who would have parted ways with pics as well. Its all speculation. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Tre White is still here for two years! We don't have any reason to believe Tre White is going to hold out! The team calling for Tre White doesn't have reason to believe that if they are patient they can just sign the player and not give up any picks! 

 

Revis and Ramsey were all-pro players!! Teams didn't even throw their way.  That is not even remotely true of Gilmore. 

 

I appreciate that you are pulling a bunch of data points, but none of them actually warrant your claim. It is not about stats, it is about league perception and market value. You have no idea how the league, as a whole, viewed Gilmore (we only have the pro-bowl and the Pats contract). That is why I keep bringing up Ramsey and Revis' all-pro status. It clearly defined how the league saw those guys.  We also have no idea what Gilmore's market was.  We do not know how many teams would have been interested in him, and who would have parted ways with pics as well. Its all speculation. 

 

Sure the BEST mind in the league handed him a 5 year 65M contract immediately.    Not to mention a Team that rarely does that in UFA.  I think that should show you the league perception of him.  So unlike your argument, I have data to support the claim Gilmore would have gotten at least a 1st in a trade.

 

Seeing you mention hold out, where is the Data that Gilmore was going to hold out?

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[The Frankish Reich]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah but that's not a chance.  That's foolhardy.

Prediction 1: Broncos game vs the legendary Brandon Allen at QB, Philip Lindsay and Royce Freeman will combine for 150+ yards rushing

Prediction 2: Cowboys game, Ezekiel Elliot alone will rush for 130+ yards. 

Prediction 3: you will be clamoring for help —

any kind of help! — to plug the hole in our run defense. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Sure the BEST mind in the league handed him a 5 year 65M contract immediately.    Not to mention a Team that rarely does that in UFA.  I think that should show you the league perception of him.  So unlike your argument, I have data to support the claim Gilmore would have gotten at least a 1st in a trade.

 

Seeing you mention hold out, where is the Data that Gilmore was going to hold out?

 

Ok, man. You say so. 

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Pro Bowls are a joke. He was good for the Bills. Just ask Bill Belichick, who is at root a DB coach. I would bet a lot of money that he would have commanded a first. 

 

The guy you are arguing with is in that stage where he thinks he knows something but is getting continuously proven wrong by the results time and again.     He's like C.Biscuit circa Jauron days.  

 

Letting Gilmore leave was dumb.   Not even tagging him was dumber.   It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization.

 

 That reflected a weakness in McDermott.   It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization.

 

What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it.   They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime.

 

That's why they are in year 3 and lack playmakers on both sides of the ball.   People hate the Jauron comparisons but not tagging Gilmore was right out of the Jauron/Levy playbook.    Not only did they not get an extra pick at least they THEN traded back out of position to select Mahomes or Watson to GET an extra pick and replace Gilmore.    Thankfully I was right about Tre White that he was the best CB in that draft(because Lattimore still can't stay healthy) otherwise imagine if they had selected a dud with that pick.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The guy you are arguing with is in that stage where he thinks he knows something but is getting continuously proven wrong by the results time and again.     He's like C.Biscuit circa Jauron days.  

 

Letting Gilmore leave was dumb.   Not even tagging him was dumber.   It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization.

 

 That reflected a weakness in McDermott.   It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization.

 

What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it.   They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime.

 

That's why they are in year 3 and lack playmakers on both sides of the ball.   People hate the Jauron comparisons but not tagging Gilmore was right out of the Jauron/Levy playbook.    Not only did they not get an extra pick at least they THEN traded back out of position to select Mahomes or Watson to GET an extra pick and replace Gilmore.    Thankfully I was right about Tre White that he was the best CB in that draft(because Lattimore still can't stay healthy) otherwise imagine if they had selected a dud with that pick.

 

Badol, you have been laughed at on this board more than ButchfromtheEastSide did on BBMB. You should walk away. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The guy you are arguing with is in that stage where he thinks he knows something but is getting continuously proven wrong by the results time and again.     He's like C.Biscuit circa Jauron days.  

 

Letting Gilmore leave was dumb.   Not even tagging him was dumber.   It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization.

 

 That reflected a weakness in McDermott.   It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization.

 

What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it.   They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime.

 

That's why they are in year 3 and lack playmakers on both sides of the ball.   People hate the Jauron comparisons but not tagging Gilmore was right out of the Jauron/Levy playbook.    Not only did they not get an extra pick at least they THEN traded back out of position to select Mahomes or Watson to GET an extra pick and replace Gilmore.    Thankfully I was right about Tre White that he was the best CB in that draft(because Lattimore still can't stay healthy) otherwise imagine if they had selected a dud with that pick.

 

Yep the reality is this team three years after rebuilding is looking a lot like the teams they "rebuilt" from.  ALOT of treading water just for the sake of getting very specific scheme specific players.

[dubs]

Are there any impact WRs on waivers?  Or anyone that can improve the offense. That’s all that matters at this point. 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Got a 3rd and a WR for Darby (lesser player by alot)

 

He would have easily gotten a 1st.  But again just the short sightedness of McD

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/trade_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2016&year_max=2019&pos[]=cb&draft_pick_min=1&draft_pick_max=256&order_by=trans_date

 

Darby wasn't franchise tagged, he was simply traded on a light contract.  That's the difference. 

 

Trading for a guy that you also have to immediately pay makes a difference in what you are willing to give up.  It's happened this year and last, but wasn't the trend a few years back.  They may have gotten a 3rd for him, but with his comments about not wanting to really be here, I think the other teams would've had all the leverage and the Bills weren't going to play the Cousins game

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

Darby wasn't franchise tagged, he was simply traded on a light contract.  That's the difference. 

 

Trading for a guy that you also have to immediately pay makes a difference in what you are willing to give up.  It's happened this year and last, but wasn't the trend a few years back.  They may have gotten a 3rd for him, but with his comments about not wanting to really be here, I think the other teams would've had all the leverage and the Bills weren't going to play the Cousins game

 

Revis was in the middle of a Hold out and had very similar stats and was a 1st and a 4th in 2013.  Sorry Gilmore WOULD have gotten a 1st. 

[Virgil]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Revis was in the middle of a Hold out and had very similar stats and was a 1st and a 4th in 2013.  Sorry Gilmore WOULD have gotten a 1st. 

 

Was he playing on the Franchise Tag?

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

Was he playing on the Franchise Tag?

 

Final Year of his deal and HOLDING OUT so the Trade also came with a new contract

 

https://www.espn.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9195939/new-york-jets-trade-darrelle-revis-tampa-bay-buccaneers

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[oldmanfan]

19 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Prediction 1: Broncos game vs the legendary Brandon Allen at QB, Philip Lindsay and Royce Freeman will combine for 150+ yards rushing

Prediction 2: Cowboys game, Ezekiel Elliot alone will rush for 130+ yards. 

Prediction 3: you will be clamoring for help —

any kind of help! — to plug the hole in our run defense. 

And Brown would not help any of that.  Do you recall watching Preston Brown play for the Bills? He made a lot of tackles but invariably far off the line of scrimmage.  So even if your predictions are true, I don't see your point.

 

And even if your predictions are right, if the Bills win each game, which I think they will, who cares?

[transplantbillsfan]

Our MLB has been a bit of a disappointment.

 

Wouldn't hurt picking up another.

[MAJBobby]

30 minutes ago, dubs said:

Are there any impact WRs on waivers?  Or anyone that can improve the offense. That’s all that matters at this point. 

There was Josh Gordon, but didnt fit the "culture" I guess

[dubs]

43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

There was Josh Gordon, but didnt fit the "culture" I guess

I’m not as dismissive of the “culture” point as some others, particularly the Mike Schopp’s of the world. However, I agree that they might be taking it too far. The beauty of the Patriots there is that culture means doing what your job is, be accountable, and work hard. They have enough vets and credibility to enforce it. With the bills, at this point you should have enough vets and credibility with the team to take on a chance guy like Gordon. Especially because if it doesn’t work you, you cut him and move on with no repercussions. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

I’m not as dismissive of the “culture” point as some others, particularly the Mike Schopp’s of the world. However, I agree that they might be taking it too far. The beauty of the Patriots there is that culture means doing what your job is, be accountable, and work hard. They have enough vets and credibility to enforce it. With the bills, at this point you should have enough vets and credibility with the team to take on a chance guy like Gordon. Especially because if it doesn’t work you, you cut him and move on with no repercussions. 

agree what point is having that strong lockerroom and culture if you cannot bring in a troubled talent and maybe have that culture flip his switch. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Our MLB has been a bit of a disappointment.

 

Wouldn't hurt picking up another.

Yes the MLB leading all linebackers in pass defense is a disappointment. 

[Seoulofstone]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Letting Gilmore leave was dumb.   Not even tagging him was dumber.   It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization.

 

 That reflected a weakness in McDermott.   It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization.

 

What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it.   They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime.

 

 

@JoshAllenHasBigHands  Funny how this has turned from a Preston Brown thread to a criticism of McDermott thread. I see a few people with agendas second guessing past events with the help of hindsight. 

 

  Maybe with hindsight tag and trade might have worked. I'm not willing to agree that someone would have given a first. Maybe-but its pure speculation. Clowney, Clark and Ford were all proven assets on contending teams. Gilmore had good and bad flashes on a non-contender. Would it have been preferable had he not gone to NE? Absolutely. Should they have let a guy who many now consider to be #1 CB in the league go in FA? Absolutely not, although we shouldn't ignore here that the Bills were close to the cap and it appears that McD didn't want to keep him. However, Is it really a given that he would have done as well as he has had he gone to any other team than NE?

 

 @BADOLBILZ To your point of weakness on the part of McD I would say that it shows the opposite. Due to brave decisions removing beloved Bills icons in his first year as a rookie head coach -(Watkins, Dareus, Gilmore), McD was able to end the drought and build a team that he wanted to represent him. You are basing your criticism of those moves on what those players went on to become rather than on what the Bills went on to become. That tells me everything about where your loyalties lie.

  

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seoulofstone

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

@JoshAllenHasBigHands  Funny how this has turned from a Preston Brown thread to a criticism of McDermott thread. I see a few people with agendas second guessing past events with the help of hindsight. 

 

  Maybe with hindsight tag and trade might have worked. I'm not willing to agree that someone would have given a first. Maybe-but its pure speculation. Clowney, Clark and Ford were all proven assets on contending teams. Gilmore had good and bad flashes on a non-contender. Is it really a given that he would have done as well as he has had he gone to any other team than NE?

 

 @BADOLBILZ To your point of weakness on the part of McD I would say that it shows the opposite. Due to brave decisions removing beloved Bills icons in his first year as a rookie head coach -(Watkins, Dareus, Gilmore), McD was able to end the drought and build a team that he wanted to represent him. You are basing your criticism of those moves on what those players went on to become rather than on what the Bills went on to become. That tells me everything about where your loyalties lie.

  

23 years since a playoff win. Nah Drought still alive and well. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

@JoshAllenHasBigHands  Funny how this has turned from a Preston Brown thread to a criticism of McDermott thread. I see a few people with agendas second guessing past events with the help of hindsight. 

 

  Maybe with hindsight tag and trade might have worked. I'm not willing to agree that someone would have given a first. Maybe-but its pure speculation. Clowney, Clark and Ford were all proven assets on contending teams. Gilmore had good and bad flashes on a non-contender. Is it really a given that he would have done as well as he has had he gone to any other team than NE?

 

 @BADOLBILZ To your point of weakness on the part of McD I would say that it shows the opposite. Due to brave decisions removing beloved Bills icons in his first year as a rookie head coach -(Watkins, Dareus, Gilmore), McD was able to end the drought and build a team that he wanted to represent him. You are basing your criticism of those moves on what those players went on to become rather than on what the Bills went on to become. That tells me everything about where your loyalties lie.

  

Few things frustrate me more than wildly baseless assumptions being used to criticize a coaching staff. 

[Seoulofstone]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

23 years since a playoff win. Nah Drought still alive and well. 

 

  Because it's not enough to make progress? If he gets to the playoffs this year that's twice in 3 years after a 20 year hiatus for a rookie head coach going to a serially underachieving team in cap hell. But yeah obviously hes doing a terrible job.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seoulofstone

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

  Because it's not enough to make progress? If he gets to the playoffs this year that's twice in 3 years after a 20 year hiatus for a rookie head coach going to a serially underachieving team in cap hell. But yeah obviously hes doing a terrible job.

 

You are responding to a blow hard take. That dude is fake as hell. 

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

  Because it's not enough to make progress? If he gets to the playoffs this year that's twice in 3 years after a 20 year hiatus for a rookie head coach going to a serially underachieving team in cap hell. But yeah obviously hes doing a terrible job.

year three still talking about the cap He’ll they created themselves. Awesome we are back to we’re we were before the rebuild. A crap Offense and a decent defense TREADING WATER 

10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are responding to a blow hard take. That dude is fake as hell. 

I notice you still have yet to provide ANY data to your point. And I am fake ha ha ha ha 

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Seoulofstone]

18 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are responding to a blow hard take. That dude is fake as hell. 

 

 I get that fans want better. I do. The Bills look unconvincing for a 6-3 team. Casual fans want to see Mahomes at QB, Julio at WR, Mack at DE. I mean who wouldn't? I do think in hindsight getting absolutely nothing for Gilmore looks bad. But its hard to criticise without context. McD coming to an old underachieving team in cap hell made decisions which upset Bills fans. He hasn't been forgiven for those decisions and won't be until fans see success. A lot of people are all or nothing and they perceive gradual improvement as failure because they compare what they have to the very best.

 

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

year three still talking about the cap He’ll they created themselves 

 

 Except that they aren't anymore are they? Because of tough decisions like Gilmore. And the dead cap sacrifice last year. If McD fails the rest of this year and the team doesn't make the postseason then he is let go, he will still have broken the playoff drought and leave behind a much younger team with a strong D and with cap space. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seoulofstone

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dubs said:

Are there any impact WRs on waivers?  Or anyone that can improve the offense. That’s all that matters at this point. 

 

That ship sailed when they passed on Josh Gordon.

 

I know most Bills fans didn't watch that epic Seattle/SF game last night but Gordon stepped in cold and got open and caught a couple slants that nobody on the Bills WR corps could have.    The second one was 3 feet from his body at hip level in heavy traffic and he caught it in stride in his hands like someone soft tossed him a loaf of bread.    And btw the dude can run 22mph on a go route too.  

 

Contrast that to the punt returner the Bills were trying to throw over the middle to in Cleveland who slowed down and tried to body catch a ball that was nowhere near his body.   A ball he should have been able to catch in stride and run with.   That was a good look for McBeane and Bills WR coach Chad Hall.   Lofton offered to help them out with the "minor" technique issue tho that was nice.