Bottom line is the Defense has to prevent an 80 yard TD drive and we win

[Billever76]

38 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Yes Dabol called a TERRIBLE game. 

Singletary getting 8 carries in a 1 score gm is mind boggling and idiotic. Outsmarting yourself dropping Allen back 48 times!!

 

But we persevered through that and had a 4 point lead and this defense holds them to under 80 yards, we win the game. That was unacceptable . This unit has been intact for 2-3 years going against a 2nd year, erratic QB. Where was the pressure? Our D played great but when it counted most , failed pretty badly. Ugly , hurtful loss today. My only hope is this team gets stronger after this one. 

Just saw the Hughes replay, brutal

We should be 7-2 , Worse loss in years. 

Frazier doesnt have the balls to be aggressive when he has to..his safer approach to an already safe prevent like cover 2 is comical....he bets on his defense to force turnovers or fgs and is perfectly ok getting dink and dunked on and gashed on the ground as long as he dont give up long bombs or tds....where is the defense that attacks and forces pressure....we need a downhill attacking blitzing 4-3

[Dopey]

9 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

They’ve invested so little in the offense in 3 years, in fact they have possibly given away more talent on offense than they have gained. The defense has had heavy investment in all 3 drafts and in FA. They should be held to a higher standard than the offense until that levels out.

Invested so little in the offense?! They've invested a top 10 pick at qb, a whole new line, new wrs, new te's, new rbs. Are you joking?

 

16.66 points allowed per game

19.33 points scored per game

We've given up 20 or more points only twice this year. TWICE.

We've held 2 teams to single digits.

Yet our offense, in 9 games has had games of 10, 13, 14, 17 points scored this year. And only 16 today.

 Higher standard? Again, are you joking?

[MDH]

Yep, D makes the stop and the Bills win. O scores more than 2 TDS and the Bills win. Hausch hits his FGs and the Bills win.

 

There is never a single thing you can point to and say that’s the reason the team lost. There are always multiple things that the team could have done differently. 
 

In general, I’d like to think that the O needs to score more than 14 before the D is blamed.

[GETTOTHE50]

The Browns GWD is 100% on McDermott.

 

He called two timeouts on that drive to reset the defense to what their offense was showing.

 

After the 1st TO, the browns were in the same formation and made a big 1st down.

 

After the 2nd TO, Browns scored a TD.

 

McD got outcoached in the end, by a far (supposedly) inferior coach in Kitchens.

 

Its a bit concerning.

 

Those timeouts couldve been used on offense ?

 

 

[buffalo2218]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I agree, and I don't pin the loss on the defense as a whole.  As I said earlier, the lack of offensive production is the bigger issue.  But, I'm just saying, the defense had an opportunity to essentially close it out with a stop.  It didn't happen, it is what is.  

 

Stay with me here, we are simply talking about the final (Brown's) drive as the OP stated in the opening.  Yes all those other what-if's contributed, but we aren't talking about those things at the present time the Browns had the ball with 80 yds to go for a game leading (eventual winning) touchdown.

Because factors that came before that drive could have made that drive a moot point. Yes, the Bills would have won had they made a stop, but that was FAR from the reason why they lost. My point is 19 points is what this defense surrendered, and there were too many opportunities wasted before that drive. So no, if the other reasons don't factor in, I'm not hearing about how the defense failed on one drive where the offense failed more before then

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, MDH said:

Yep, D makes the stop and the Bills win. O scores more than 2 TDS and the Bills win. Hausch hits his FGs and the Bills win.

 

There is never a single thing you can point to and say that’s the reason the team lost. There are always multiple things that the team could have done differently. 
 

In general, I’d like to think that the O needs to score more than 14 before the D is blamed.

 

That's a good way to put it.

Here we go; same scenario.  Vikings have a four point lead with 4:34 to go and Dallas has the ball at their own 6.

[Billever76]

40 minutes ago, BrycePaup4ever said:

Is this really the time to blame the defence. They have won a few games for us this year and despite that drive still played an alright game. They get a pass from me this time.

The defense has only looked good bc of whom they have played...they should be shutting teams lime the giants,jets,bengals,dolphins and redskins out..not allowing 100 yard rusher in halfs,getting little pressure,no turnovers and long sustained drives...frazier needs to blitz more and play aggressive more..esp on that last drive..worst that could happen is a big play is gave up and Bills have more time to work the final drive...the conservative approach to surrender the lead today was a horribly display of our defense and our leader of that defense didnt call the scheme to give our boys the best chance

Give me a 4-3 blitzing defense....or atleast way more attack and less react..we dont dictate what offenses do bc we are too worried of not allowing the big play and keep everything in front of us in a reactory defense.....its not Buffalo defense...its tampas and it needs out of wny imo

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, eanyills said:

Hey look, made up stats. Real statistics are about 25% of the time.

 

Not sure where you got 25% of the time; I agree with the previous poster.  There was more than enough time and we should have been able to tie at a minimum, but couldn't.  The amount of time we wasted by sitting in the huddle was the epitome of incompetence.  Any offensively competent team would have won given what we had to work with.

[Billever76]

Look at the steelers or other attacking defenses....straight killing it...whens the last time you seen a buffalo d as physical or aggressive as the steelers or niners?...we are soft period

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Minnesota about to let Dallas drive 94 yards, down by 4, to take the lead.

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

Look at the steelers or other attacking defenses....straight killing it...whens the last time you seen a buffalo d as physical or aggressive as the steelers or niners?...we are soft period

That's what I mean. In that circumstance I am disappointed we didn't let this group attack them instead of bending but not breaking. Why isn't Edmunds blitzing more? We are soft. Finesse defense. Bunch of sweethearts

[Billever76]

Just now, JerseyBills said:

That's what I mean. In that circumstance I am disappointed we didn't let this group attack them instead of bending but not breaking. Why isn't Edmunds blitzing more? We are soft. Finesse defense. Bunch of sweethearts

Its what frazier is..the scheme of the defense is wrong!...it gets over shadowed bc they have played decent against subpar teams and havent been as inconsistent as the offense...but make no mistake frazier is average at best and this scheme is exposed

[Happy]

Just now, Billever76 said:

Look at the steelers or other attacking defenses....straight killing it...whens the last time you seen a buffalo d as physical or aggressive as the steelers or niners?...we are soft period

 

Not sure the Steelers of late are a good example.  They too play a loose zone and prevent defense; I've seen it too often from them since it reflects Tomlin's defensive belief.  Frazier subscribes to this soft, bend but don't break, prevent defense which only ensures you lose.  Frazier is not a sophisticated enough DC to beat better, modern offenses; Cleveland does not fall into that category, they just have a couple of playmakers in OBJ, Landry, and Chubb.  We let them move the ball too often and are fortunate to hold them to under 20.

[Best Williams Available]

16 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

The Browns GWD is 100% on McDermott.

 

He called two timeouts on that drive to reset the defense to what their offense was showing.

 

After the 1st TO, the browns were in the same formation and made a big 1st down.

 

After the 2nd TO, Browns scored a TD.

 

McD got outcoached in the end, by a far (supposedly) inferior coach in Kitchens.

 

Its a bit concerning.

 

Those timeouts couldve been used on offense ?

 

 

I agree. That prevent D castrated the guys capable of actually making plays, forcing them to cover air and keep everything in front of them. There’s 4+ min on the clock not 45 seconds. Gashing us for 10-15 yards per down basically.

 

The GWTD throwing to the guy covered 1-on-1 that no one expected to be the target proves he was outsmarted and outcoached there.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Best Williams Available

[DrPJax]

24 minutes ago, TheJauronClap said:

Dabol did not call a bad game josh missed throws to receivers that were open

Not trying to be difficult but ; 

giving a running back who is avg. over 5 yds a carry 8 touches is by definition bad play calling ! 
0 targets for your highly paid free agent TE is by definition bad play calling or bad game planning and speaks to a lack of identity for the offense 

playing foster over Williams and then targeting him once or twice is again bad game planning. Having your kick returner suddenly getting more targets than foster and expecting him to suddenly be comfortable catching the ball under game pressure is bad game planning and bad play calling. 
never scoring points in the third quarter speaks to bad game planning, again what is this offenses identifying principle? Can you define it ?

When your slot receiver is the sole deep target on a critical down, game planning is questionable and again what is the philosophy of the passing game plan? It’s not productive and scoring 14 points is not GOOD or acceptable and the OC is responsible for the game plan. 
When your offense is confused and huddling as the clock runs down in the game defining drive , that is poor preparation and speaks to poor coaching. Isn’t Daboll responsible for the offense in that situation ?   
 

The product speaks for itself. If you think it’s just on Josh , isn’t it the OC s job to design an offense around the capabilities of your given talent ? 
I agree  Josh is a work in progress. Daboll has a history of poor performing offenses and this is just another notch in his belt, by now he is what he is. Josh at least has a chance to develop.  There is something wrong with the chemistry between daboll and Josh as the product now doesn’t work. Much easier to try a new OC than draft a new QB.  Just like whisenhunt was responsible and dismissed its time for Mcd to salvage this situation imho. 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

57 minutes ago, BrycePaup4ever said:

Is this really the time to blame the defence. They have won a few games for us this year and despite that drive still played an alright game. They get a pass from me this time.

 

Got rolled for 3 drives to open the game. Stops on the goalline make it better than it was. They struggled badly today. 

[Billever76]

Just now, Best Williams Available said:

I agree. That prevent D castrated the guys capable of actually making plays, forcing them to cover air and keep everything in front of them. There’s 4+ min on the clock not 45 seconds. Gashing is for 10-15 yards per down basically.

 

The GWTD throwing to the guy covered 1-on-1 that no one expected to be the target proves he was outsmarted and outcoached there.

The defense on the last drive should have been a more risky blitz happy defense..even if they give up the score they leave plenty of time for the offense to atleast get a fg

[Ethan in Cleveland]

38 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

They’ve invested so little in the offense in 3 years, in fact they have possibly given away more talent on offense than they have gained. The defense has had heavy investment in all 3 drafts and in FA. They should be held to a higher standard than the offense until that levels out.

Zay

DiMarco

Ivory

Foster

McKenzie

Ford

Morse

Singletary/Gore - remember this board wanted to get rid of McCoy

Brown

Beasley

Knox

Kroft

Sweeney

Five other FA linemen

and of course - Allen - Two first picks, a LT, and two second round picks

 

I'd say that is a lot.  

 

The offense just needs a true #1 WR, maybe a  RT, and a little time more time.  

 

 

 

[TJC25]

5 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Not trying to be difficult but ; 

giving a running back who is avg. over 5 yds a carry 8 touches is by definition bad play calling ! 
0 targets for your highly paid free agent TE is by definition bad play calling or bad game planning and speaks to a lack of identity for the offense 

playing foster over Williams and then targeting him once or twice is again bad game planning. Having your kick returner suddenly getting more targets than foster and expecting him to suddenly be comfortable catching the ball under game pressure is bad game planning and bad play calling. 
never scoring points in the third quarter speaks to bad game planning, again what is this offenses identifying principle? Can you define it ?

When your slot receiver is the sole deep target on a critical down, game planning is questionable and again what is the philosophy of the passing game plan? It’s not productive and scoring 14 points is not GOOD or acceptable and the OC is responsible for the game plan. 
When your offense is confused and huddling as the clock runs down in the game defining drive , that is poor preparation and speaks to poor coaching. Isn’t Daboll responsible for the offense in that situation ?   
 

The product speaks for itself. If you think it’s just on Josh , isn’t it the OC s job to design an offense around the capabilities of your given talent ? 
I agree  Josh is a work in progress. Daboll has a history of poor performing offenses and this is just another notch in his belt, by now he is what he is. Josh at least has a chance to develop.  There is something wrong with the chemistry between daboll and Josh as the product now doesn’t work. Much easier to try a new OC than draft a new QB.  Just like whisenhunt was responsible and dismissed its time for Mcd to salvage this situation imho. 

 

Not to be difficult but its not dabolls fault josh cant hit one deep ball its not dabolls fault josh missed McKenzie today when he had 10 steps on a guy its not his fault josh missed john brown wide open on a slant route on 4th and 4 then at the end of the game missed john brown on a back shoulder by 10 yards. You can have the best oc in the world the qb still has to hit the open players nuff said 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Yes Dabol called a TERRIBLE game. 

Singletary getting 8 carries in a 1 score gm is mind boggling and idiotic. Outsmarting yourself dropping Allen back 48 times!!

 

But we persevered through that and had a 4 point lead and this defense holds them to under 80 yards, we win the game. That was unacceptable . This unit has been intact for 2-3 years going against a 2nd year, erratic QB. Where was the pressure? Our D played great but when it counted most , failed pretty badly. Ugly , hurtful loss today. My only hope is this team gets stronger after this one. 

Just saw the Hughes replay, brutal

We should be 7-2 , Worse loss in years. 

Didn't the offense have a chance to score a game winning td or at least a game tying fg with that last drive? Yea, let's blame the defense for not saving this horrible offense again.

[Big Gun]

13 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Got rolled for 3 drives to open the game. Stops on the goalline make it better than it was. They struggled badly today. 

To add to that, I seen Murphy Lawson and DL drop into coverage numerous times today. To me that's not good game planning asking your big slower guys to pass cover smaller quick guys. That coaching philosophy stinks and needs to be addressed.

[buffalo2218]

9 minutes ago, TJC25 said:

Not to be difficult but its not dabolls fault josh cant hit one deep ball its not dabolls fault josh missed McKenzie today when he had 10 steps on a guy its not his fault josh missed john brown wide open on a slant route on 4th and 4 then at the end of the game missed john brown on a back shoulder by 10 yards. You can have the best oc in the world the qb still has to hit the open players nuff said 

Then why would Daboll call a play like that if there's even less chance of success since Allen can't complete a deep ball?

Edited November 11, 2019 by buffalo2218

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Been saying this all day.  Offensive shares the burden of blame, no doubt about it.  However, regardless of how badass the goal line stands were today, the offense did get the lead with around 5:00 or just under to play and the defense allowed the Browns to methodically march down the field to take the lead.   At one time, Chubb carried like four five defenders on his back to get a first down.  Several times had them in 3rd down but kept giving up out patterns at the sticks.  

 

Hah!  One time?  I saw Chubb do that to us like 5 or 6 times during the game.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, pop gun said:

To add to that, I seen Murphy Lawson and DL drop into coverage numerous times today. To me that's not good game planning asking your big slower guys to pass cover smaller quick guys. That coaching philosophy stinks and needs to be addressed.

 

I think it's to help with the screen game... Where we have struggled a lot lately. 

[Trogdor]

25 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Look at the steelers or other attacking defenses....straight killing it...whens the last time you seen a buffalo d as physical or aggressive as the steelers or niners?...we are soft period

2014, just before the Pegulas ruined it chasing a sound bite. That team had a better defense and offense than the current one and didn't make the playoffs. Can't wait to switch back to the 3-4 and watch the roster turnover. 

[TJC25]

Just now, buffalo2218 said:

They why would Daboll call a play like that if there's even less chance of success since Allen can't complete a deep ball?

No matter what you have to trust a qb to make a throw you cant hamper your playbook and take out a huge chunk of your playbook and scheme daboll is getting people open on the field josh isnt hitting them

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, TJC25 said:

Not to be difficult but its not dabolls fault josh cant hit one deep ball its not dabolls fault josh missed McKenzie today when he had 10 steps on a guy its not his fault josh missed john brown wide open on a slant route on 4th and 4 then at the end of the game missed john brown on a back shoulder by 10 yards. You can have the best oc in the world the qb still has to hit the open players nuff said 

 

He's missing them for sure. I thought brown should've been on the sideline more for that fade considering the clock etc. Allen didn't have any time either. Brown needs to get that one.

[Trogdor]

17 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Zay

DiMarco

Ivory

Foster

McKenzie

Ford

Morse

Singletary/Gore - remember this board wanted to get rid of McCoy

Brown

Beasley

Knox

Kroft

Sweeney

Five other FA linemen

and of course - Allen - Two first picks, a LT, and two second round picks

 

I'd say that is a lot.  

 

The offense just needs a true #1 WR, maybe a  RT, and a little time more time.  

 

 

 

It's always more depressing when it's spelling out like this. I'm not sure anything is as bad as 2 1sts and a chance at Rodgers for Losman. We need a Dallas-Minnesota trade where someone way over pays for one of our guys. 

[buffalo2218]

Just now, TJC25 said:

No matter what you have to trust a qb to make a throw you cant hamper your playbook and take out a huge chunk of your playbook and scheme daboll is getting people open on the field josh isnt hitting them

Maybe so, but I seriously doubt a deep ball is a huge chunk of the playbook like you say. Pfft 3rd and 3 and he has Allen loft a bomb, that is on Daboll

[McBean]

Yeah let’s blame the defense that gave up just 19 points.

 

Would a Pat Mahomes ( who we passed on) and Deshaun Watson ( who we passed on) led offense put up over 19 points and win today?

 

Yeah, they would. Mahomes passed for 450 today. 450! Wake up people. 
 

We deep down know what the problem is. It’s depressing.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, buffalo2218 said:

Maybe so, but I seriously doubt a deep ball is a huge chunk of the playbook like you say. Pfft 3rd and 3 and he has Allen loft a bomb, that is on Daboll

 

Yeah that one was rough. Would need to see the film.

 

I don't hate the late game check he made. Clocks running and you gotta make a play

[Big Gun]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I think it's to help with the screen game... Where we have struggled a lot lately. 

I dont thin that's it, they were 10-15 yards down field moving towards the LOS and making tackles after the TE, RB, WR gained 5-10 yards. They weren't out in the flat covering guys out of the backfield, it was almost as if the dropped back I to a zone. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

 

Hah!  One time?  I saw Chubb do that to us like 5 or 6 times during the game.  

 

Yeah I hear ya.  I was talking specifically on that final drive.

[TJC25]

2 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said:

Maybe so, but I seriously doubt a deep ball is a huge chunk of the playbook like you say. Pfft 3rd and 3 and he has Allen loft a bomb, that is on Daboll

Daboll made him? watch the play look at cole Beasley left side cb is 15 yards off josh could of recognized that and made the hot read against cover 0 

[buffalo2218]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah that one was rough. Would need to see the film.

 

I don't hate the late game check he made. Clocks running and you gotta make a play

From what I understood, all WRs went deep on that play. Allen's deep accuracy has been a problem all year, so why not use Beasley there instead of sending him downfield?

2 minutes ago, TJC25 said:

Daboll made him? watch the play look at cole Beasley left side cb is 15 yards off josh could of recognized that and made the hot read against cover 0 

Um, the pass went to Beasley, like downfield. Why not try to move the chains on a play that had more of a chance given Allen's deep ball issues? Isn't that Beasley's forte?

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by buffalo2218

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, McBean said:

Yeah let’s blame the defense that gave up just 19 points.

 

Would a Pat Mahomes ( who we passed on) and Deshaun Watson ( who we passed on) led offense put up over 19 points and win today?

 

Yeah, they would. Mahomes passed for 450 today. 450! Wake up people. 
 

We deep down know what the problem is. It’s depressing.

 

No one is wholly blaming the defense; however they did give up an 80 yd TD drive that had they stopped them, would have had a probability of over 90% of winning the game.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, buffalo2218 said:

From what I understood, all WRs went deep on that play. Allen's deep accuracy has been a problem all year, so why not use Beasley there instead of sending him downfield?

9 guys along the LOS, no idea who's coming and who's dropping, clocks running, no chance at hard count/cadence, can't set protections... He said screw it, brown 1x1 and it's coming fast because rush is on. 

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No one is wholly blaming the defense; however they did give up an 80 yd TD drive that had they stopped them, would have had a probability of over 90% of winning the game.

 

Yup. Walked right over em.

[TJC25]

4 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said:

From what I understood, all WRs went deep on that play. Allen's deep accuracy has been a problem all year, so why not use Beasley there instead of sending him downfield?

Um, the pass went to Beasley, like downfield. Why not try to move the chains on a play that had more of a chance given Allen's deep ball issues? Isn't that Beasley's forte?

 

Wrong plays i was talking about the last pass play off the game 

[Gunsgoodtime]

The more disturbing notion is...is Josh Allen really our franchise qb?  He sure does miss a lot of throws, and hits on 0 long passes, is terribly inaccurate 

[BananaB]

This was a complete team loss. Missed opportunities O, D and ST lost this game. Play calling and coaching was bad too. 
 

D played a pretty solid bend don’t break game until the last drive.  They again had a hard time stopping the run. In the end you expect a top notch D to come up big when the game is on the line. 
 

Passing had inconsistencies. Poor throws and too many drops are not a good combination. The deep pass to McKenzie should of been a TD, you can’t miss that pass. They still put us up late in the game, and then in FG range when they needed it. You gotta like that. 
 

Two missed FGs, not much to say about this. You either hit it or you don’t. 
 

Play calling you have to question. It was a one score game from start to finish and Singletary got 8 carries. That’s totally *****

 

Mcdermot made two bad decisions this game that stand out in my opinion. On the first drive going for 4th down when your QB hasn’t completed a pass yet. In my opinion you take the FG try there. At the end of the game it felt like once we hit FG range they they took the foot of the gas and were happy about going into OT. I think that’s crap. 
 

100% a team loss. All phases had the chance to win this game and all phases failed us.