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Ed O A Pipe Dream or a Dream Team Position Change ?

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1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Jeez, from all the posters before the draft claiming Oliver was "the second coming," you have to wonder what went awry.  How about because a rookie doesn't have a dozen sacks by now, it doesn't mean he's not learning and performing.

I feel this is the answer to the question not asked.
But as some folks like to relate any players current value to draft position Ed is a bust. lol
 I have faith he will get his stride sooner than later.
have seen some excellent play from him already as he continues to gain gameday exp.
love this kid.
if he takes snaps over the tackle or plays the snap standing ala LB ? i do not mind. he might be that good, in time.

 

good post formerly Allen !

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6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ed Oliver is fine where he is. He has played well. He hasn't been dominant yet but it is 7 games. Chill out.

 

Year 1 expectations are through the roof.

 

 

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Oliver isnt D Freeney. Just leave him be. Let him figure it out

12 hours ago, H2o said:

If it gets Murphy off of the field I'm good with seeing how Oliver does @ LDE. 

Why cant Shaq do that. Hes playing a world better any way

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11 hours ago, Augie said:

We need something out of that DE position, but I’m not creating a hole at Ed’s position just to try something else. Just go get a real DE for that slot. We are not a finished product.  

This is an absolute must!

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15 hours ago, T master said:

Okay i have been thinking about this for a while & i know that you the Bills fans will give your honest & unbiased opinion on it & some of you may even call me a dum ass for suggesting it but my skin has grown pretty thick since posting here so i'll throw this against the wall & see if it sticks .

 

In the Bills past there has been a few players that they had brought on board at one position  have seen some potential in them & thought that that could be utilized better at another position, the one that we most recognize with is of coarse Jason Peters he came to the Bills as a TE & they changed to LT to be one of the best to ever play the position for his entire career ! Oh & don't forget George Wilson changed from WR to a safety or DB what ever it was .

 

The Bills have recently gotten a rookie that was said to play out of position in college (but did better there than what i've seen in the NFL to this point) & that when they brought him here they would put him at a different position better suited for him but to this point i'm not really seeing it .

 

Ed Oliver is the player that i am talking about if you haven't guessed already . Upon him being drafted they said by putting him in the position he is now he would be a lot better player but from what i have seen to this point he is doing okay but the players here in the NFL are so much bigger than him although strong as he may be when you are out weighed by any where from 30 to 60 lbs that's got to be tough !!

 

So i was thinking given his size, his get off & motor would he be better suited to be a DE opposite Hughs ? I've looked at some resent & past DE's in the NFL & he isn't as tall but around the same weight . Boss in SF is 6'4" 260 ish Bruce was 6'4" about the same in weight Oliver is 6' 1" 286 ? witch could give him a advantage at getting under a O lineman to get around him on the edge .

 

I claim to be a fan & want the players the Bills get to have the best opportunity to produce but i don't really see Ed being that super talent at the position in the middle they need more of the Jordan Phillips/Horrible Harry  in the middle than Ed IMHO. So is there anything to this thought or have any of you had the same thought, or is this just a fan dreaming of what might be nothing but  a pipe dream ? 

 

it cant hurt to take a look but it really depends on his explosiveness off the edge. Dwight Freeney was short and a great End.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

I see your point.   They did move Ed around to the left side for a few snaps last game.   Everyone is learning how to play together on that line, especially Ed.

 

He's graded out pretty well this year so far, the one thing i was worried about was him not having enough anchor to play inside, we all know he's twitchy and quick.   But he doesn't get steamrolled at all, even giving up 50lbs to the average NFL guard and being doubled frequently.

 

One thing to consider:   Levon Kirkland, the all-pro inside LB for the Steelers was exactly the same size as Ed, 6'1 280 ish.    Ed's numbers at the combine were LB numbers, far faster and more agile than Kirkland ever was. 

 

Now I'm not proposing we put Ed in the middle LB position (imagine McD and Frasier laughing at that idea) however, in a short yardage packages, when Star and Jordan are inside, what if we put Ed as a backer, or even at edge as the OP proposed.    Here you go Ed,  this is your gap.  Thump away.

 

Anyway here is what scouts generally use a minimum measurable for ILB's.

 

40-yard dash: Minimum Target: 4.80
10-yard split: Minimum Target: 1.70
Vertical jump: Minimum Target: 33”
Broad jump: Minimum Target: 9’6”
3 cone drill: Minimum Target: 7.20
20-yard shuttle: Minimum Target: 4.20
Bench press: Minimum Target: 24

 

Size-wise, Oliver is basically Aaron Donald.

  • Donald at the 2014 combine: 6’1, 285 pounds
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 6’1, 287 pounds

In the 40-yard dash, Oliver is basically Arian Foster.

  • Foster at the 2009 combine: 4.69 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.73 seconds (Milano 4.67)

In the bench press, Oliver is basically Ndamukong Suh.

  • Suh at the 2010 combine: 32 reps
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 32 reps

In the shuttle run, Oliver is basically Le’Veon Bell.

  • Bell at the 2013 combine: 4.25 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.22 seconds

In the three-cone drill, Oliver is basically Jason Pierre-Paul.

  • Pierre-Paul at the 2010 combine: 7.18 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 7.15 seconds

In the vertical jump, Oliver is basically Von Miller.

  • Miller at the 2011 combine: 37 inches
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 36 inches

In the broad jump, Oliver is J.J. Watt or Amari Cooper

  • Watt at the 2011 combine: 120 inches
  • Cooper at the 2015 combine: 120 inches
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 120 inches

So maybe there are some more creative ways to use the guy as a specialist.

 

 

 

Ed as a LB on running plays would be fun.

 

 

13 hours ago, DCofNC said:

He has no pass rush moves, hence his current issue, putting him in space won't make that better.   I wasnt a big fan of this pick, but lets not declare him a bust after 7 games, he has more than held his own.  He hasn't had the impact one would like, but he sure hasn't been a liability and is arguably the best player on the DL already.

 

first sentence right on , next sentence not even. Jordan Phillips has been our best DL, Harry was also better.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

first sentence right on , next sentence not even. Jordan Phillips has been our best DL, Harry was also better.

 

 

 

Correct. Jordan has several impact plays this year, Ed has zero. Also, find it interesting that people are willing to give a DT time, but not a QB despite the exponentially more difficult position the QB is in.

 

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14 hours ago, billieve420 said:

How many DTs start their rookie year and become instant impact players? I would assume few to none. 

Kyle Williams, for one.  A fifth round pick.

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5 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

Why cant Shaq do that. Hes playing a world better any way

It seems they are using Shaq more in a rotation with Hughes this year than Murphy. Idk why, but that's what I've noticed. I was joking about Ed playing DE though, just not a fan of Murphy. The guy hasn't really been much even when healthy this year and he doesn't show well against the run. 

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16 hours ago, babulator said:

Ed would look better if he had a true "space eater" next to him. Star isn't cutting it, despite what Coach and other apologists have said. It'd also help if Trent Murphy wasn't such a waste of space. We've got like 1 or 2 plays out of him in 2 years. I'm not bashing Jerry Hughes, but we could use some more out of him too.  DL is still clearly a need on this team, both DT and DE. Jordan Phillips has been playing well at least, we better get him resigned asap.

I don't think this is true. He and Phillips could be great as a duo. Ed is so fast off the line and creates havoc that other players can exploit. A space eater probably won't benefit from that as much. This is kind of the same story with Shaq who can set the edge and collapse, but probably won't get the sack himself. The rotation isn't working that well imo. Teams exploit it when we get our 2nd or worse string guys out there.  I'm a sucker for the 2014 pin their ears back best 4 though. 

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In a 3-4 he would probably be a good DE. I would just make him gain weight. Obviously that’s more of a long term thing but for now, it would be more Star and J. Phillips for me and a lot less Ed Oliver. Can’t have the run defense be what it’s been.

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Ed Oliver is a starter as a very young rookie player. He is playing good enough where you don’t really notice him out there but he is getting some good pressures. 

 

1 year in a NFL strength/training program and another year of playbook and film study and I think Oliver will be a monster. 

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

In a 3-4 he would probably be a good DE. I would just make him gain weight. Obviously that’s more of a long term thing but for now, it would be more Star and J. Phillips for me and a lot less Ed Oliver. Can’t have the run defense be what it’s been.

It does seem like this team has the personnel to run a very solid 3-4 defensive in the right situations. 

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I was vocal Bills should have traded up for Josh Allen when he made it past the Raiders. He has been great. I didn't want Oliver. After not getting Allen or Hockenson the best move was a trade down. I don't think Oliver is big enough for the NFL. Said it then and sticking to it.

He might be able to play a 3-4 DE from time to time, but McD never uses that formation. 

Even though I didn't want Oliver, he is playing ok for a rookie DT. The hopes of a 6-8 sack season  many on here predicted probably will not work out. But it will be 3 years before you really know if he is going to be a star, average,  or a bust.

 

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with Eds horse riding skills we should saddle him up on a buffalo and have him "lead the charge" out of the locker room

Edited by billybob71

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21 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Yes, Oliver seems undersized by current NFL standards and I worried about that the moment we drafted him.

 

Some guys can overcome that and their size doesn't matter in the final analysis.

 

I think it's too early to draw a conclusion about Oliver and his size being a problem.

 

 

It's not the size that matters as much as how you handle it.

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1 minute ago, BeefCurtns said:

It's not the size that matters as much as how you handle it.

thats what she said

 

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21 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I don't think it would hurt if Oliver put more mass on his frame - maybe about 20 lbs, it he is going to stay a 3 tech DT.  If Oliver can't get off the Guard's block, he gets pushed out of the play.

 

the scouting dig on him before the draft was that he had trouble maintaining his weight to play in college

 

 

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5 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I don't think this is true. He and Phillips could be great as a duo. Ed is so fast off the line and creates havoc that other players can exploit. A space eater probably won't benefit from that as much. This is kind of the same story with Shaq who can set the edge and collapse, but probably won't get the sack himself. The rotation isn't working that well imo. Teams exploit it when we get our 2nd or worse string guys out there.  I'm a sucker for the 2014 pin their ears back best 4 though. 

 

I don't disagree entirely, I'll amend my "space eater" statement to really any other productive DT. Could be either, a space eater or a penetrator, but we need an upgrade for sure. Harry has been playing well (Im not surer he's fits either mold really), but we still need additional help.

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5 hours ago, H2o said:

It seems they are using Shaq more in a rotation with Hughes this year than Murphy. Idk why, but that's what I've noticed. I was joking about Ed playing DE though, just not a fan of Murphy. The guy hasn't really been much even when healthy this year and he doesn't show well against the run. 

Not at all. Trent was a blunder. We will probably have to start fresh next year at LE. Unless Johnson is going there.

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9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

it cant hurt to take a look but it really depends on his explosiveness off the edge. Dwight Freeney was short and a great End.

 

 

Freeney was a speed rusher freak. Ran like a Sammy Watkins 40 time. 

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8 hours ago, mannc said:

Kyle Williams, for one.  A fifth round pick.

 

We did have one of the worst team defensive rush rankings that year. Stats wise Oliver should be right up there with Kyle in his rookie year. I was talking more about people expecting pro bowl type season for DT which is not easy position to play.

 

Want to see how Oliver looks after a year in NFL conditioning program and getting coached up.

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3 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

It's not the size that matters as much as how you handle it.

 

in the NFL size matters a lot

 

 

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10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Ed as a LB on running plays would be fun.

 

 

 

first sentence right on , next sentence not even. Jordan Phillips has been our best DL, Harry was also better.

 

 

Harry didnt play a snap, so based o  real games, no.  Jordan Phillips has been the most explosive, he also gets mauled off the ball by double teams because he gets upright too fast, so I'm not in agreement on that.

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Freeney was a speed rusher freak. Ran like a Sammy Watkins 40 time. 

Also had tree trunk legs and could blow tackles straight up on the air, Oliver has no where near that base strength, yet at least.

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Ed Oliver will be an elite DT in the league very soon. Give him some time to figure it out. Hopefully by playoffs he will be flying around. 

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On 10/31/2019 at 12:51 PM, Happy Gilmore said:

I don't think it would hurt if Oliver put more mass on his frame - maybe about 20 lbs, it he is going to stay a 3 tech DT.  If Oliver can't get off the Guard's block, he gets pushed out of the play.

Agreed, Ed is only 21.

I fully expect him to bulk up more with a season or 2 of NFL level weight training and diet.

Give him a couple years and I expect us Bills fans will be very happy with our dominant interior DL.

We need to add a DOMINANT Edge, our 4 man pass rush leaves a lot to be desired.

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