Andy Dalton benched in Cincy

[PlayoffsPlease]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And I'm guessing Allen will get around 16-18 more games to prove he is made out for this league as a legitimate starter before they considering looking elsewhere. Dalton oozes process so I could see this happening. 

 

I think it is more likely that  Daboll gets the rest of this season with  Allen, and if the progress seems stalled, then they look to see if Allen will improve with a different OCs.   Even if Daboll is competent, he is not special and pretty easy to replace.  #7 overall pick QBs in the draft are much rarer, and I think the Bills will investigate the new OC angle, before giving up on him. 

8 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I know this isn’t what this thread is really about but I’d totally be cool with making a move for Dalton in the offseason. Best case he is an exceptional backup. If the worst happens and Allen becomes a bust, you have another out here.

In a league where Ryan Fitzpatrick and Ryan Tannehill and Case Keenum are starting QBs, I think it is likely Dalton sees himself as a starter, not an exceptional backup. 

[ALF]

With there season lost it's a smart move to see if  Ryan Finley has potential or team will move up in the draft. Dalton will likely start next season as a bridge QB could even be Bengals . 

[Seven-N-Nine]

52 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

#7 overall pick QBs in the draft are much rarer, and I think the Bills will investigate the new OC angle, before giving up on him.

 

Just because a team makes a player the #7th pick, doesn't mean that player is worthy of that draft status, and hanging on too long just wastes guys like Hyde & Poyer.

[teef]

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

Just because a team makes a player the #7th pick, doesn't mean that player is worthy of that draft status, and hanging on too long just wastes guys like Hyde & Poyer.

are you saying the bills should move on from josh?

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

are you saying the bills should move on from josh?

He's saying the guy who needed 115 more passes to throw the same TDs as Allen might be an upgrade over Allen...

[PlayoffsPlease]

10 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

Just because a team makes a player the #7th pick, doesn't mean that player is worthy of that draft status, and hanging on too long just wastes guys like Hyde & Poyer.

1. Reading comprehension is important. 

2. I was just stating what I think the Bills will do, not what they should do.

 

On the substance of moving on, Allen has improved from year 1 to year 2 both statistically and according to any reasonable "eye test".  It seems pretty stupid to argue that people are "holding on" when a young QB is still improving. 

[Seven-N-Nine]

16 minutes ago, teef said:

are you saying the bills should move on from josh?

Not at this point in time, but they should not be closed off to the idea if he doesn't seriously improve by this time next season. The days of a GM and HC sticking with the QB they drafted until the wheels come off needs to end, a lot of other talent on the team is wasted in the meantime.

[teef]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

He's saying the guy who needed 115 more passes to throw the same TDs as Allen might be an upgrade over Allen...

it's just what he does.  

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

Not at this point in time, but they should not be closed off to the idea if he doesn't seriously improve by this time next season. The days of a GM and HC sticking with the QB they drafted until the wheels come off needs to end, a lot of other talent on the team is wasted in the meantime.

why would they be closed off to the idea of getting a new qb if josh doens't work out? he's in his second year, and he'll be here for a third.  he has to get better.

[Seven-N-Nine]

1 minute ago, teef said:

it's just what he does.  

why would they be closed off to the idea of getting a new qb if josh doens't work out? he's in his second year, and he'll be here for a third.  he has to get better.

Look how long they belabored the Zay Jones debacle of a pick, if they were not the ones who selected him, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. I don't trust that they would be able to face the facts Allen isn't cutting it until it's way past due to make a change, especially at that position.

[teef]

Just now, Seven-N-Nine said:

Look how long they belabored the Zay Jones debacle of a pick, if they were not the ones who selected him, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. I don't trust that they would be able to face the facts Allen isn't cutting it until it's way past due to make a change, especially at that position.

seriously?  look how long?  he was in his third year.  his first year was lousy, and his second year he had significant improvement.  he lead the team in wr production, and was even more productive than watkins.  he didn't show this year so he was gone before the midway mark of the season.  should they have cut him after last year?  of course not.

 

to say they dragged on the zay pick is nonsense and isn't even a valid argument.  you try too hard.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Look how long they belabored the Zay Jones debacle of a pick, if they were not the ones who selected him, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. I don't trust that they would be able to face the facts Allen isn't cutting it until it's way past due to make a change, especially at that position.

 

2 minutes ago, teef said:

seriously?  look how long?  he was in his third year.  his first year was lousy, and his second year he had significant improvement.  he lead the team in wr production, and was even more productive than watkins.  he didn't show this year so he was gone before the midway mark of the season.  should they have cut him after last year?  of course not.

 

to say they dragged on the zay pick is nonsense and isn't even a valid argument.  you try too hard.

 

In their very brief history with the Bills, the only player I think McDermott/Beane dragged their feet on getting rid of was Kelvin Benjamin.

 

They absolutely did not draw the Zay project on for too long, in my opinion.

 

As far as Allen goes, he's played 17 games and he's shown forward progress on a pretty consistent basis.  Does he need to be better?  Yes.  But when a QB has fumbling issues, it's probably not the wisest thing to do to call designed QB sweeps.  Especially on the same day you have a healthy scratch in McKenzie riding the pine.

 

The most problematic piece of this team that's been held on for too long, unfortunately, is Brian Daboll.

 

Hopefully, he was taken to the woodshed after last week's absolute garbage game plan/play calling and he finally understands that he is misusing the talent that we DO have on this roster.

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

In their very brief history with the Bills, the only player I think McDermott/Beane dragged their feet on getting rid of was Kelvin Benjamin.

 

They absolutely did not draw the Zay project on for too long, in my opinion.

 

As far as Allen goes, he's played 17 games and he's shown forward progress on a pretty consistent basis.  Does he need to be better?  Yes.  But when a QB has fumbling issues, it's probably not the wisest thing to do to call designed QB sweeps.  Especially on the same day you have a healthy scratch in McKenzie riding the pine.

 

The most problematic piece of this team that's been held on for too long, unfortunately, is Brian Daboll.

 

Hopefully, he was taken to the woodshed after last week's absolute garbage game plan/play calling and he finally understands that he is misusing the talent that we DO have on this roster.

i'm not sure if kelvin was even too long, but it sure felt that way considering how lazy he ended up being.  i'm in no way saying this staff is perfect.  they've done their share of bad along with the good, but if this team gets into the playoffs this year, i'll be impressed...no matter who they've beaten.  the bills have spent too much time at the bottom, so i'm not upset that they're beating the bottom feeders for once.

 

concerning daboll, i never really felt the play calling was questionable until the last two weeks.  even then i'm not sure it's on him, the players, or more likely both.  right now i'm only concerned about the win loss record.  win this sunday, and i'm thrilled with 6-2.  the season is a marathon, so i'm not jumping to any conclusions yet.  i just want to enjoy the ride and see how it plays out.

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm not sure if kelvin was even too long, but it sure felt that way considering how lazy he ended up being.  i'm in no way saying this staff is perfect.  they've done their share of bad along with the good, but if this team gets into the playoffs this year, i'll be impressed...no matter who they've beaten.  the bills have spent too much time at the bottom, so i'm not upset that they're beating the bottom feeders for once.

 

concerning daboll, i never really felt the play calling was questionable until the last two weeks.  even then i'm not sure it's on him, the players, or more likely both.  right now i'm only concerned about the win loss record.  win this sunday, and i'm thrilled with 6-2.  the season is a marathon, so i'm not jumping to any conclusions yet.  i just want to enjoy the ride and see how it plays out.

 

Absolutely, teef.  I'm loving the wins and also have no concerns who they're against.  They're beating the teams they're supposed to beat.  At midway, for our only losses to be to NE and PHI ... a) most of us would have predicted those to be losses and b) we'll be 6-2!!!

 

Daboll has concerned me since last season.  He's shown the ability to call great games, but he will come back the following week with some crazy crap that doesn't make sense and is totally ineffective.  By now, he should know what he's got and know how to use them ... consistently.

 

That all comes down to the head coach.  And I'm pretty confident that McDermott gave Daboll an earful after last week.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He threw a bunch of picks a couple weeks ago. He’s the type of QB who can be really good with a really good supporting cast. If he doesn’t have that, he can’t overcome it. 

 

They have had suuuuch a bad Oline for so long.  They've spent 1sts in the last what, 2 drafts?  1 isn't playing to potential and 1 got hurt immediately.  They traded for glenn who's constantly hurt.  Just can't fix that unit no matter how much they try.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

And the beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da

 

 

Some people will never be happy 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

57 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

1. Reading comprehension is important. 

2. I was just stating what I think the Bills will do, not what they should do.

 

On the substance of moving on, Allen has improved from year 1 to year 2 both statistically and according to any reasonable "eye test".  It seems pretty stupid to argue that people are "holding on" when a young QB is still improving. 

 

You don't want it to become a blake bortles situation and ruin what might otherwise be a very good team.  Next season i expect to both draft someone, and bring in someone better than barkley to push allen.  

 

These guys should all be available:

Bridgewater, Flacco, Winston, Mariota, Eli Manning, Keenum, Tannehill 

 

Obviously Tennessee, Miami, Cinn, TB, Denver, and to a lesser extent Chicago, and Pitt will be looking for QBs.  Miami and Cinn are probably already drafting guys in the top 2 picks, and you also have to look at teams looking to improve their backups - but we should be in the mix there.  

 

As for drafting?  Get me an accurate guy anywhere in this draft, maybe in rounds 2-5.  

 

It's Allens team, until it isnt.

Edited October 30, 2019 by dneveu

[Bill from NYC]

20 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Agreed. AAaaand he’d be an upgrade over everyone we have behind Josh. 

Oh absolutely!!!!!!

Are we going to have 90 million in cap space in 2020 or did I dream these numbers up? If so, I would like to see him sign with us, but for less than the 17.7 mil. he is due to receive from Cincy.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

These guys should all be available:

Bridgewater, Flacco, Winston, Mariota, Eli Manning, Keenum, Tannehill 

 

Barkley is on the books through 2020

 

Not one of them will push Josh IMO.  

 

Of that list a viable "just in case need for a backup"   I'd pick Tannehill or Bridgewater or even maybe Keenum 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

 

In a league where Ryan Fitzpatrick and Ryan Tannehill and Case Keenum are starting QBs, I think it is likely Dalton sees himself as a starter, not an exceptional backup. 

Sadly, you are probably correct.

 

In a perfect world, I would love to see the Bills sign him for 2 or 3 years at 10 million or so per season but I do understand that this is highly unlikely.

[Figster]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

FA is before the draft.  Green has to make his decision before knowing what QB they take 

If the Bengals have the 1st pick overall it becomes obvious they will draft Tua IMO.

 

If the Bengals pick is not 1st overall it becomes obvious they will not draft Tua IMO.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Barkley in on the books through 2020

 

Not one of them will push Josh IMO.  

 

Of that list a viable "just in case need for a backup"   I'd pick Tannehill or Bridgewater or even maybe Keenum 

 

 

 

Yeah - we can cut him for a total cap hit of 200K though.  I'd agree on those 2, and throw mariota in there.  I don't think he's good but i do think he's a capable backup at this point.

 

I also think drafting a QB is smart.  Look at accurate guys who may need some seasoning.  

1 minute ago, Figster said:

If the Bengals have the 1st pick overall it becomes obvious they will draft Tua IMO.

 

If the Bengals pick is not 1st overall it becomes obvious they will not draft Tua IMO.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

What about Burrow?  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

47 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

You don't want it to become a blake bortles situation and ruin what might otherwise be a very good team.  Next season i expect to both draft someone, and bring in someone better than barkley to push allen.  

 

These guys should all be available:

Bridgewater, Flacco, Winston, Mariota, Eli Manning, Keenum, Tannehill 

 

Obviously Tennessee, Miami, Cinn, TB, Denver, and to a lesser extent Chicago, and Pitt will be looking for QBs.  Miami and Cinn are probably already drafting guys in the top 2 picks, and you also have to look at teams looking to improve their backups - but we should be in the mix there.  

 

As for drafting?  Get me an accurate guy anywhere in this draft, maybe in rounds 2-5.  

 

It's Allens team, until it isnt.

Color me surprised if these guys stick around for another year of NFL grind with such obviously diminished skills?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Color me surprised if these guys stick around for another year of NFL grind with such obviously diminished skills?

 

I suppose - i just included them anyway.  There's no upside to either starting at this point, you're just signing them for their brain.

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah - we can cut him for a total cap hit of 200K though.  I'd agree on those 2, and throw mariota in there.  I don't think he's good but i do think he's a capable backup at this point.

 

I also think drafting a QB is smart.  Look at accurate guys who may need some seasoning.  

 

What about Burrow?  

I like Burrow, Lawerence, Hurts, but I still think Tua is in a league all his own in my humble opinion.

 

I think the only other QB I've felt this sure about is A Luck.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Figster

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I suppose - i just included them anyway.  There's no upside to either starting at this point, you're just signing them for their brain.

Ah, like an upgraded Derek Anderson 2nd QB coach type? I could get behind that. 

[Virgil]

7 minutes ago, Figster said:

If the Bengals have the 1st pick overall it becomes obvious they will draft Tua IMO.

 

If the Bengals pick is not 1st overall it becomes obvious they will not draft Tua IMO.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

You assume.....

 

Haven't you watched the college offseason enough to know that players do their best work when not playing?  I wouldn't be too surprised to see the top 3 QB's change up a few times.

 

But hey, I'm wrong a lot

[Figster]

 

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

You assume.....

 

Haven't you watched the college offseason enough to know that players do their best work when not playing?  I wouldn't be too surprised to see the top 3 QB's change up a few times.

 

But hey, I'm wrong a lot

You and me both Virgil,

 

I still have a gut feeling from eating nasty Green lima Beans yesterday...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

I like Burrow, Lawerence, Hurts, but I still think Tua is in a league all his own in my humble opinion.

 

I think the only other QB I've felt this sure about is A Luck.

 

Burrow looks gooood this year.  Not sure what changed.  I don't think he'll go 1, but if those 2 teams finish 1/2 he'll go 2.

 

Seeing LJ and Murray do fine in the NFL makes me think Hurts could end up going earlier than originally thought.  36 total TDs already, he's a major dual threat issue.  

 

Lawrence probably sticks for another year - too much talent coming out and the 8 picks isn't exactly a great number to look at.  At the same time, he shredded bama in the title game a year ago.. thats pretty impressive.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

25 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Ah, like an upgraded Derek Anderson 2nd QB coach type? I could get behind that. 

 

I mean Eli has been around, hes won a couple super bowls... i dont think he'd come here tho.  He's probably done.  Flacco maybe?  He seems to have lost that QB clock in the last couple of years.  Just can't get out of his own way.

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

In their very brief history with the Bills, the only player I think McDermott/Beane dragged their feet on getting rid of was Kelvin Benjamin.

 

They absolutely did not draw the Zay project on for too long, in my opinion.

 

 

Even Kelvin only lasted about a year. Once they were eliminated from playoff contention they went full evaluation mode and released him. I thought it was pretty quick 

[Figster]

34 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Burrow looks gooood this year.  Not sure what changed.  I don't think he'll go 1, but if those 2 teams finish 1/2 he'll go 2.

 

Seeing LJ and Murray do fine in the NFL makes me think Hurts could end up going earlier than originally thought.  36 total TDs already, he's a major dual threat issue.  

 

Lawrence probably sticks for another year - too much talent coming out and the 8 picks isn't exactly a great number to look at.  At the same time, he shredded bama in the title game a year ago.. thats pretty impressive.

Hurts has been absolutely amazing, even in the loss.

 

Should give you some idea on how the best coach in college football feels about Tua.

[YoloinOhio]

 

59 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Burrow looks gooood this year.  Not sure what changed.  I don't think he'll go 1, but if those 2 teams finish 1/2 he'll go 2.

 

Seeing LJ and Murray do fine in the NFL makes me think Hurts could end up going earlier than originally thought.  36 total TDs already, he's a major dual threat issue.  

 

Lawrence probably sticks for another year - too much talent coming out and the 8 picks isn't exactly a great number to look at.  At the same time, he shredded bama in the title game a year ago.. thats pretty impressive.

New OC Joe Brady, who will have NFL offers this offseason 

[Seven-N-Nine]

3 hours ago, teef said:

seriously?  look how long?  he was in his third year.  his first year was lousy, and his second year he had significant improvement.  he lead the team in wr production, and was even more productive than watkins.  he didn't show this year so he was gone before the midway mark of the season.  should they have cut him after last year?  of course not.

 

to say they dragged on the zay pick is nonsense and isn't even a valid argument.  you try too hard.

 

I dunno, many fans myself included saw that Jones was an issue right from the start. I am guessing that front office personnel saw the same thing, they were just reluctant to act because he was one of their picks, vs. say Watkins, they didn't bat an eye when they wanted to make a change there. 

[teef]

7 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

I dunno, many fans myself included saw that Jones was an issue right from the start. I am guessing that front office personnel saw the same thing, they were just reluctant to act because he was one of their picks, vs. say Watkins, they didn't bat an eye when they wanted to make a change there. 

oh, so after seeing improvement from year one to year two, you just knew year three was going to be bad? no you didn't, and the coaching staff did the right thing by at least giving him playing time this year to see what happens.  watkins was let go because he had time prior to show he wasn't worth the money.  two different situations.  i think you know this.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

Andy Dalton said agent tried to facilitate a trade ahead of deadline

Posted by Josh Alper on October 30, 2019, 11:55 AM EDT

 

Quarterback Andy Dalton isn’t thrilled about being benched by the Bengals, but it appears he’s also unhappy with the timing of the move.

Dalton spoke to reporters on Wednesday about Tuesday’s announcement that fourth-round pick Ryan Finley will be taking over as the starter once the team returns from their bye week.

 

“I don’t agree with the decision but I’m going do everything I can to help the team,” Dalton said, via Paul Dehner of TheAthletic.com.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/30/andy-dalton-said-agent-tried-to-facilitate-a-trade-ahead-of-deadline/#comments

 

[Jauronimo]

23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He threw a bunch of picks a couple weeks ago. He’s the type of QB who can be really good with a really good supporting cast. If he doesn’t have that, he can’t overcome it. 

I think that describes the QB situation around the league. 

 

The truly elite QBs are all in the twilight of their careers and whats left are a bunch of guys who can be great in the right situation but cannot carry a team.  

3 hours ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

Just because a team makes a player the #7th pick, doesn't mean that player is worthy of that draft status, and hanging on too long just wastes guys like Hyde & Poyer.

Wasting the prime of Poyer and Hyde?!?!  

 

FleaMoulds 98 and rising. 

[Seven-N-Nine]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

oh, so after seeing improvement from year one to year two, you just knew year three was going to be bad? no you didn't, and the coaching staff did the right thing by at least giving him playing time this year to see what happens.  watkins was let go because he had time prior to show he wasn't worth the money.  two different situations.  i think you know this.

 

Jones only had a few decent games last season, the rest of the game reflected his poor catch %. He sucked, fans knew it, and I'm sure the coaches did too. Giving up on a player in year two that they drafted is a bad look for them, that's why they hung on, probably why they will do the same with Allen, only it won't be 3 years more like 5. 

 

Self preservation of jobs in the FO is not in the best interest of the team, yet we see it constantly, it's annoying.  Some players drafted, yes, you can know quite early on they are just not going to make it in the NFL, Jones was one of those players.

[416BillsFan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I see his point, but I think Ryan Pace already spent the whole day listening to agents of disgruntled QBs telling him how much better their client is than The Biscuit.

[teef]

23 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

Jones only had a few decent games last season, the rest of the game reflected his poor catch %. He sucked, fans knew it, and I'm sure the coaches did too. Giving up on a player in year two that they drafted is a bad look for them, that's why they hung on, probably why they will do the same with Allen, only it won't be 3 years more like 5. 

 

Self preservation of jobs in the FO is not in the best interest of the team, yet we see it constantly, it's annoying.  Some players drafted, yes, you can know quite early on they are just not going to make it in the NFL, Jones was one of those players.

last year he had almost 700yrs and 7 tds.  that doesn't suck.  it's not all star level, but what you're saying isn't true.  the staff holding onto zay because it was a bad look for them to move him is nothing more than something you've made up, and keep sticking too for some reason.   when exactly do you think they should have moved on from zay then?  after last season?

 

again, you're trying too hard.  

[One Buffalo]

You can hear the frustration in his voice... not well handled by the organization.