Josh Allen haters: a 10 year history lesson on 1st round QBʻs

[Saint Doug]

There’s a common thing amongst all these 1st round failures. The vast majority of these QBs were forced to start the year they were drafted. Apparently gone are the days where QBs are properly developed and mentored. These QBs pop their first year, then fizzle as they can’t reach the next level. Sure, some like Mahomes, if placed on a well-coached team, can do well. But, the reality these teams picked in the 1st round for a reason. Because they suck and are usually being coached by a first time HC. This is just the nature of the beast nowadays. 

[C.Biscuit97]

25 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Hey Allen haters, here’s a thread that shows how most 1st round QBs in the last decade ended being busts! Take that you idiots! 

Yeah, I’m kinda confused of the point the OP was making. Kinda makes me feel worse. 

[dous21]

this might be the dumbest thread I've ever seen on this forum 

 

you really thought you had something special with this? 

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

There’s a common thing amongst all these 1st round failures. The vast majority of these QBs were forced to start the year they were drafted. Apparently gone are the days where QBs are properly developed and mentored. These QBs pop their first year, then fizzle as they can’t reach the next level. Sure, some like Mahomes, if placed on a well-coached team, can do well. But, the reality these teams picked in the 1st round for a reason. Because they suck and are usually being coached by a first time HC. This is just the nature of the beast nowadays. 

The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed.  I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team. 

[LabattBlue]

Where is the "history lesson"?  Some 1st round QB's are good and some suck?  Who would have guessed that?

[Pokebball]

8 hours ago, downunderbill said:

 

I don't think many people think he's a finished product at all, far from it, but his career is 16 games old. The pessimists, or realists as you like to call your selves, are the same as the more optimistic members just at different ends of the spectrum.

In the end it's just entertainment, the Bills are 4-1, and some choose to enjoy the game and the Bills. 

There isn't a poster that believes Josh is anywhere near a completed product.  It's this kind of hyperbole that fires up folks.

 

Good post!

[ngbills]

Not sure how this list is supposed to help Allen. Saying there are a lot of busts and many that outplayed Allen thus far. Sounds more like this would help show he is more likely to bust. 

[Pokebball]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed.  I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team. 

 

I'm not sure the Bill's defense is the factor in Josh's performance as much as you think it is.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

Goff yes. 

 

Mahomes threw for 373 yards and 3 TDs yesterday...and threw his first INT--in 20 minutes time of possession. 

 

He's averaging 350 yards/game, with 14 TDs and 1 INT. 

 

Every team wishes their QB was falling apart like that.

 

273 yds.  Two hundred seventy three yards, not 373, Three hundred seventy three. 

There is a significant difference. 

 

Also note the fumble.  It matters.  It may have been a difference in the game.  If you consider (as some coaches have said) that a sack can be functionally equivalent to a TO, the 8 sacks and 2 fumbles must be considered.

 

You still have a point that other teams "wish their QB was falling apart like that".  Mahomes is a very very talented young QB, no question.  I think he may be coming to depend a little bit too much upon his ability to stick the throw no matter what - double coverage, off balance, underhand, sidearm, doesn't matter.  Until it goes a step too far and it does.  But that's just my opinion and time will tell.

 

I haven't personally watched Goff to have a feeling as to whether or not he's falling apart.  He's still putting up good passing numbers, his problem seems to be putting up far more INTs than the last 2 years.   Is Gurley a factor - not having Gurley to dump off to, or as much of a run game to take the pressure off of him?  My feeling about Goff has always been that he's a QB that can win in the right system with the right pieces around him.

 

Which, by the way, remains to be seen about Mahomes - I know some here contend so, but until we see what he does without Andy Reed, Hill and Kelce the verdict will be out.

 

 

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed.  I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team. 

 

I don't think that's how Allen felt last season, and I don't think that's how he felt after the blocked punt for TD against the Pats.

 

I mean, a great D is fine, but unless we're counting on the other team's ST miscues or defensive TDs, sooner or later the O has to put some points on the board

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

273 yds.  Two hundred seventy three yards, not 373, Three hundred seventy three. 

There is a significant difference. 

 

Also note the fumble.  It matters.  It may have been a difference in the game.  If you consider (as some coaches have said) that a sack can be functionally equivalent to a TO, the 8 sacks and 2 fumbles must be considered.

 

You still have a point that other teams "wish their QB was falling apart like that".  Mahomes is a very very talented young QB, no question.  I think he may be coming to depend a little bit too much upon his ability to stick the throw no matter what - double coverage, off balance, underhand, sidearm, doesn't matter.  Until it goes a step too far and it does.  But that's just my opinion and time will tell.

 

I haven't personally watched Goff to have a feeling as to whether or not he's falling apart.  He's still putting up good passing numbers, his problem seems to be putting up far more INTs than the last 2 years.   Is Gurley a factor - not having Gurley to dump off to, or as much of a run game to take the pressure off of him?  My feeling about Goff has always been that he's a QB that can win in the right system with the right pieces around him.

 

Which, by the way, remains to be seen about Mahomes - I know some here contend so, but until we see what he does without Andy Reed, Hill and Kelce the verdict will be out.

 

 

273 yards would be Allen’s career high and it was against a good team in Houston. 

 

But it I guess he set the bar so high so expectations are out of wack.  

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

273 yards would be Allen’s career high and it was against a good team in Houston. 

 

But it I guess he set the bar so high so expectations are out of wack.  

I think you also have to look at team concept...

 

When you have what might be the best defense in the league you dont NEED to throw for 300 yards a game.JA DOES need to cut down on the turnovers but 250 yards, some TDs, a solid running game, is MORE then enough to win with a defense this good.

 

As shown by the 4-1 record

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I think you also have to look at team concept...

 

When you have what might be the best defense in the league you dont NEED to throw for 300 yards a game.JA DOES need to cut down on the turnovers but 250 yards, some TDs, a solid running game, is MORE then enough to win with a defense this good.

 

As shown by the 4-1 record

I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen.  

 

This feels a little Mark sanchez like.  And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term. 

[MR8]

Nothing in the OP resembles a scientific comparison to say why any of these QBs are good or bad, it's just a list of names with arbitrary commentary on them.  

 

Maybe take some time if you're going to claim a 10 year comparison, you get high and mighty telling us you're going to "Give a Lesson" then give us nothing... may you should and I don't know... COMPARE THESE GUYS!   Pull the stats from their first years as starters, compare them to the stats from their second years as starters, then third?  Show progression of which failed and which succeeded?

 

This thread is the equivalent of a Nathan Peterman pass... it's an attempt that easily gets picked off and taken the other way due to bad execution.  

Edited October 14, 2019 by MR8

[John from Riverside]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen.  

 

This feels a little Mark sanchez like.  And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term. 

Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year.

 

I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year.

 

I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game.

I mean we know how Sanchez turned out but he went 5th overall and had similar numbers to Allen.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

 

I think Philly will be a nice test for him.  They are struggling a bit but still have a bunch of talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

 

This is great.  Where did you get it?  If he had a Bills logo on his shirt it would be perfect.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean we know how Sanchez turned out but he went 5th overall and had similar numbers to Allen.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

 

I think Philly will be a nice test for him.  They are struggling a bit but still have a bunch of talent.

The Titans were not a good test for him?  That is a VERY solid defense

[ngbills]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year.

 

I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game.

I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has.

 

Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The Titans were not a good test for him?  That is a VERY solid defense

We scored 14 points. 

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has.

 

Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. 

Yup and that’s kinda my point.  I forgot the undrafted guy last year from SF who would have monster games last year.  Why can’t the highest drafted guy in Bills history?

 

and I get it. We’re winning.  I just want to see a complete game from our potential franchise qb.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, ngbills said:

I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has.

 

Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. 

QBs mature at different progressions......

 

And if you cannot see the improvements in his game even from year 1 I dont know what to tell you....its there and verifiable both statistically and visably

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We scored 14 points. 

 

We scored 7 more than they did

 

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen.  

This feels a little Mark sanchez like.  And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term. 

 

Why do you feel Allen is "Mark Sanchez like"?  I don't see the resemblance at all.

But in order to discuss, I need to understand what you see as the relevant factors of resemblence.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We scored 14 points. 

Yup and that’s kinda my point.  I forgot the undrafted guy last year from SF who would have monster games last year.  Why can’t the highest drafted guy in Bills history?

 

and I get it. We’re winning.  I just want to see a complete game from our potential franchise qb.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

[Real McClappy]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is great.  Where did you get it?  If he had a Bills logo on his shirt it would be perfect.

haha, a buddy texted me a couple weeks ago with it. 

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We scored 7 more than they did

 

 

Why do you feel Allen is "Mark Sanchez like"?  I don't see the resemblance at all.

But in order to discuss, I need to understand what you see as the relevant factors of resemblence.

High pick qb, playing on a team with a great defense, and winning games.  Jets fans would just say he wins but ignore the overwhelming evidence that he was along for the ride.  He would have “comebacks” but it would beecause he was terrible all game and the defense kept it close. 

 

Long way way to go to see that for Allen and I think he is more physically gifted. 

[ngbills]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

And Josh Allen playing inconsistently. We should all hope this is not his ceiling. This defense will not sustain this level of play every game and for years to come. In many ways this team is winning despite Allen not because Allen. They would likely have the same outcomes and maybe actually have won the NE game if we had Tyrod Taylor level play thus far. That was not good enough and either should this version of Josh Allen. We have him because the hope is he continue to develop. I can guarantee you the coaches are not pleased and want more from him. No question. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

He also lost the AFC Championship game to the Patriots. Guy is a joke.

 

Right ... losing To a team that could only score 13 points in the super bowl? 

 

Im surprised they have tried to ditch him for a conditional 6th 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

I mean this honestly. When will allowed to want more from Allen?  Am I bad fan because I want our highest drafted qb to have more tds than ints?

[John from Riverside]

Just now, ngbills said:

And Josh Allen playing inconsistently. We should all hope this is not his ceiling. This defense will not sustain this level of play every game and for years to come. In many ways this team is winning despite Allen not because Allen. They would likely have the same outcomes and maybe actually have won the NE game if we had Tyrod Taylor level play thus far. That was not good enough and either should this version of Josh Allen. We have him because the hope is he continue to develop. I can guarantee you the coaches are not pleased and want more from him. No question. 

OMFG

 

All you can ask for is playing well enough to win while showing improvement year to year....its called developing a QB (which is happening)

 

if it makes you feel better to cry over other teams toys...have at it

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean this honestly. When will allowed to want more from Allen?  Am I bad fan because I want our highest drafted qb to have more tds than ints?

No you are not a bad fan for wanting it

 

As long as you recognize that the arrow is pointing up and that it is journey to develop a QB like this

[C.Biscuit97]

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

QBs mature at different progressions......

 

And if you cannot see the improvements in his game even from year 1 I dont know what to tell you....its there and verifiable both statistically and visably

And this is what I always worried about with Allen. We are just going to keep hearing about raw he is and how he needs a little more time. 

 

Ive grown to really like how he carries himself and he has shown some progression in the short game.  But he is so inconsistent and I just hope that’s not going to be his whole career. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

This does support the argument that those who have posted if Allen's a bust McD and Beane should be fired for wasting a high pick.  The rate of success with QB's where ever they are drafted is very low.  If it turns out Oliver or Edmunds, or Tre are busts then yes, but faulting a GM for picking a bad QB is silly and just setting the team back years again to start over.  There was not a no brainer in the 2017 draft class either.  Both Mayfield and Darnold the two drafted highest did also have question marks about them too.  

 

I do wonder what has happend to Goff though?

[ngbills]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OMFG

 

All you can ask for is playing well enough to win while showing improvement year to year....its called developing a QB (which is happening)

 

if it makes you feel better to cry over other teams toys...have at it

Play well enough to win? Then why not just keep Tyrod or find the most mediocre Qb that will protect the ball?

 

I am not saying we ditch Allen. I just disagree with all the attempts to show he is actually playing great, he is actually better than xyz, this is the plan with him, its WR fault, fill in your excuse here.

 

Yes, it is going to be a development process. Nothing wrong with being honest when the guy struggles. I dont think I have ever "cried over other team toys". 

[Teddy KGB]

MVP but losing lately ???

 

I want one of those 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

This does support the argument that those who have posted if Allen's a bust McD and Beane should be fired for wasting a high pick.  The rate of success with QB's where ever they are drafted is very low.  If it turns out Oliver or Edmunds, or Tre are busts then yes, but faulting a GM for picking a bad QB is silly and just setting the team back years again to start over.  There was not a no brainer in the 2017 draft class either.  Both Mayfield and Darnold the two drafted highest did also have question marks about them too.  

 

I do wonder what has happend to Goff though?

What happened with Goff is the common misconception about what wins football.  Goff lost some good O linemen and now he is getting more pressure.  

 

I know I’m old fashioned but football starts up front.  Win the battles up front, win the games.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What happened with Goff is the common misconception about what wins football.  Goff lost some good O linemen and now he is getting more pressure.  

 

I know I’m old fashioned but football starts up front.  Win the battles up front, win the games.

 

don't follow other teams that closely, was it due to lack of $$ to pay them or they made some bad cuts?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

High pick qb, playing on a team with a great defense, and winning games.  Jets fans would just say he wins but ignore the overwhelming evidence that he was along for the ride.  He would have “comebacks” but it would beecause he was terrible all game and the defense kept it close.

 

OK.    So I'll give you 3 differences:

1) In 4 years playing on the Jets including with solid veteran WRs, a strong run game, and a good OL, Sanchez best completion % was 56%.  His 4 year average was 55%.

     So far this year, Allen has improved from 53% to 63%.  If Allen keeps it up, that's a very significant improvement his 2nd year.

2) Sanchez lacked the athleticism and rushing ability that Allen possesses - he actually was seen as athletic in college, perhaps a knee injury in college put paid to it.

3) Josh Allen seems to be taking a step in his progressions his 2nd year in the pros.  Mark Sanchez was rumored to be struggling with Schottenheimer's playbook in his 3rd season.  Now this may reflect relative experience: Allen played for 3 years in college, where Sanchez chose to declare for the draft after 1 season.  Sanchez did start looking like a real QB in his 5th season, playing for Shurmer in Philly, so there's that. 

 

I don't think the Bills had a great defense last year.  I'd call 18th on points mediocre.  We got blown out in what, 5 games?

 

Has Allen arrived, No.  He has to progress as a QB to show that he's The Man, in particular with "taking what the D is giving him" and protecting the football. 

But is it reasonable to compare him to Sanchez? Also, No.

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And this is what I always worried about with Allen. We are just going to keep hearing about raw he is and how he needs a little more time. 

 

Ive grown to really like how he carries himself and he has shown some progression in the short game.  But he is so inconsistent and I just hope that’s not going to be his whole career. 

Rushing yards are way down because he is not just taking off out of the pocket at the first sight of trouble and

 

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Play well enough to win? Then why not just keep Tyrod or find the most mediocre Qb that will protect the ball?

 

I am not saying we ditch Allen. I just disagree with all the attempts to show he is actually playing great, he is actually better than xyz, this is the plan with him, its WR fault, fill in your excuse here.

 

Yes, it is going to be a development process. Nothing wrong with being honest when the guy struggles. I dont think I have ever "cried over other team toys". 

Josh Allen is a better QB then Tyrod (who I supported)...is playing better......and who has MUCH more upside.

 

Find a way to keep Tyrod in the pocket and we were toast.....Josh can actually throw the ball

[Beast]

If all the players were released into a pool and were drafted again, Mahomes would go 1st overall.

 

Justifiably so.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

don't follow other teams that closely, was it due to lack of $$ to pay them or they made some bad cuts?

I think $$.  Lost some guys to free agency

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

No sorry, but I encourage you to try again. Every borderline insane opinion is not a valid “bills’ fan” let’s go buffalo-approved one just because they try to paint an Allen compliment in through the back door.

Truly his reckoning is upon him. 

It does appear your opinion is something you have grown to believe is fact, and that seems to work for you, and I am happy for you, But still, I digress, Go Bills!!! ?

[MR8]

I pulled the first 5 years passing statistics of the 30 Quarterbacks drafted since 2010 and put them in a spreadsheet for a statistical look of all the QBs taken there.

So I am going to post some stats that I thought were important but I want to open it up to everyone, lemme know what stats you want, or if you want the spreadsheet I am more than willing to share it.

YEAR 1

I decided to make 6 starts or more their rookie season, it's just under half but enough to get a bit of a look at a QB. If you'd like me to alter the data another way I can... the guys who were weeded out because of insufficient starts: Daniel Jones (4), Tim Tebow (3), Paxton Lynch (2), Johnny Manziel (2), Patrick Mahomes (1), Dwayne Haskins (0), Jake Locker (0)

What I am going to post is the top 10 at each of the following Category with Allen inserted in (If he's not in the top 10), and the Average of all QBs.

Number of Games Started:
 

Ranking	Name	GS
1	Andrew Luck	16
2	Carson Wentz	16
3	Sam Bradford	16
4	Ryan Tannehill	16
5	Cam Newton	16
6	Jameis Winston	16
7	Robert Griffin III	15
8	Brandon Weeden	15
9	Blaine Gabbert	14
10	Baker Mayfield	13
17	Josh Allen	11
	GROUP AVERAGE	14.9

Win Percentage:
 

Ranking	Name	GS	Wins	Losses	Win%
1	Lamar Jackson	7	6	1	86%
2	Andrew Luck	16	11	5	69%
3	Robert Griffin III	15	9	6	60%
4	Teddy Bridgewater	12	6	6	50%
5	Deshaun Watson	6	3	3	50%
6	Baker Mayfield	13	6	7	46%
7	Josh Allen	11	5	6	45%
8	Carson Wentz	16	7	9	44%
9	Sam Bradford	16	7	9	44%
10	Ryan Tannehill	16	7	9	44%
	GROUP AVERAGE	12.4	4.9	7.4	39.5%

Completion Percentage: (This one I left the whole list because I was surprised Luck was as low as he was)
 

Ranking	Name	Cmp%
1	Robert Griffin III	65.6
2	Teddy Bridgewater	64.4
3	Kyler Murray	64.3
4	Baker Mayfield	63.8
5	Carson Wentz	62.4
6	Marcus Mariota	62.2
7	Deshaun Watson	61.8
8	Sam Bradford	60
9	Cam Newton	60
10	Mitchell Trubisky	59.4
11	Blake Bortles	58.9
12	EJ Manuel	58.8
13	Ryan Tannehill	58.3
14	Jameis Winston	58.3
15	Lamar Jackson	58.2
16	Sam Darnold	57.7
17	Brandon Weeden	57.4
18	Josh Rosen	55.2
19	Jared Goff	54.6
20	Christian Ponder	54.3
21	Andrew Luck	54.1
22	Josh Allen	52.8
23	Blaine Gabbert	50.8
	GROUP AVERAGE	59%

Yards:
 

1	Andrew Luck	4374
2	Cam Newton	4051
3	Jameis Winston	4042
4	Carson Wentz	3782
5	Baker Mayfield	3725
6	Sam Bradford	3512
7	Brandon Weeden	3385
8	Ryan Tannehill	3294
9	Robert Griffin III	3200
10	Teddy Bridgewater	2919
11	Blake Bortles	2908
12	Sam Darnold	2865
13	Marcus Mariota	2818
14	Josh Rosen	2278
15	Blaine Gabbert	2214
16	Mitchell Trubisky	2193
17	Josh Allen	2074
18	EJ Manuel	1972
19	Christian Ponder	1853
20	Deshaun Watson	1699
21	Kyler Murray	1664
22	Lamar Jackson	1201
23	Jared Goff	1089
	Group Average	2744

Touch Downs:
 

Ranking	Name	TD
1	Baker Mayfield	27
2	Andrew Luck	23
3	Jameis Winston	22
4	Cam Newton	21
5	Robert Griffin III	20
6	Marcus Mariota	19
7	Deshaun Watson	19
8	Sam Bradford	18
9	Sam Darnold	17
10	Carson Wentz	16
11	Teddy Bridgewater	14
12	Brandon Weeden	14
13	Christian Ponder	13
14	Ryan Tannehill	12
15	Blaine Gabbert	12
16	Blake Bortles	11
17	EJ Manuel	11
18	Josh Rosen	11
19	Josh Allen	10
20	Kyler Murray	7
21	Mitchell Trubisky	7
22	Lamar Jackson	6
23	Jared Goff	5
	GROUP AVERAGE	14.5

Interceptions:
 

Ranking	Name	Int
1	Andrew Luck	18
2	Cam Newton	17
3	Brandon Weeden	17
4	Blake Bortles	17
5	Jameis Winston	15
6	Sam Bradford	15
7	Sam Darnold	15
8	Carson Wentz	14
9	Baker Mayfield	14
10	Josh Rosen	14
11	Ryan Tannehill	13
12	Christian Ponder	13
13	Teddy Bridgewater	12
14	Josh Allen	12
15	Blaine Gabbert	11
16	Marcus Mariota	10
17	EJ Manuel	9
18	Deshaun Watson	8
19	Mitchell Trubisky	7
20	Jared Goff	7
21	Robert Griffin III	5
22	Kyler Murray	4
23	Lamar Jackson	3
	Group Average	11.7

I will try and get year 2 done tonight, but definitely tomorrow.