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Markjaro

Does anyone miss Zach Brown? Nigel Bradham?

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Brown was released today by the Eagles. 

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5 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I'm not terribly concerned about Gilmore moving on, even in retrospect, because even when the Bills have sucked they still seem to have a talent for picking up top-shelf corners.  

 

And I'd take Tre White over Gilmore straight up every day of the week.  Both would be nice...but I'm not really upset at how it worked out, either.

I really like Tre but right now Gilmore is by a far margin the better CB and to me is the best corner in football.

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6 hours ago, Virgil said:

Definitely not a process guy, regardless of how good he can play sporadically

 

I could be wrong but I don't remember him being a problem the one year he was here. The guys a tackling machine but don't know if he's a scheme fit, but the man can play.

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5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I really like Tre but right now Gilmore is by a far margin the better CB and to me is the best corner in football.

But Gilmore did not play at the same level while in BUffalo.  It could have been due to bad coaching or the player preserving himself for the big contract and to play with a contender.  He didn;'t want to play a second contract with Buffalo.

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10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

White over Gilmore?  Based on what?  Certainly not based on straight up play.  If you said based on age and contract I would agree.  But Whaley not giving Gilmore an extension after year 4 was dumb and McD letting Gilmore walk without compensation was worse.  Even if they did not want him on the team, they could have tagged him and gotten compensation for him like Texans did with Clowney.  Bad decisions at the time and look even worse now.

White is 4 years younger, cheaper, and nearly as good.  And then factor in the opportunity cost of drafting a CB in the first round instead of another position of need like QB or LB that year.  

Many different ways to spin in it. But we are here and now.  Gilmore is defensive player of the year through 6 games and the Bills are 4-1 with a great chance to make the playoffs.  

 

I don't think the decision to let Gilmore walk can be put on Whaley or on McDermott.  It literally came from "higher up the corporate food chain", ie, Russ Brandon and his bean-counters in respect to Gilmore, but the Bills developing top DBs and then letting them walk in FA predates Brandon's regime.

 

In 1999, the Bills drafted Antoine Winfield in the first round, developed him into a Pro Bowler, and allowed him walk in FA.

In 2001, the Bills drafted Nate Clements in the first round, developed him into a Pro Bowler, and allowed him walk in FA.

In 2004, the Bills signed an UDFA DB Jabari Greer, developed him into a top DB, and let him walk in FA (he won a SB ring with New Orleans).

In 2006, the Bills drafted Donte Whitner in the first round, developed him into an excellent strong safety, and let him walk in FA.  (Bills fans hated Whitner because he was drafted so high, which wasn't his fault.)

In 2008, the Bills drafted Leodis McKelvin in the first round, who developed into a JAG DB, and spent almost all of his career with the Bills.

 

Allowing Gilmore to walk and using a first round pick to replace him was simply a long standing Bills policy that occurred under John Butler, Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon/Dick Jauron, Russ Brandon/Doug Whaley, and Russ Brandon/Sean McDermott.  The Bills have also done similar things with RBs and the few good WRs they developed since 2000.   It's part of the reason why they didn't make the playoffs for 17 years -- they could never truly improve the team because they were continually using the draft to fill holes created by their failure to keep the homegrown talent they developed.

 

Whether the Bills have truly changed their ways will probably become clearer when Tre White comes up for a new contract, and whether the Bills let him walk away without a fight or if they re-sign/seriously try to re-sign him.

 

 

Edited by SoTier
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So Tier:  the league has changed and now players are starting to demand trades either for money or just to play on a winning team (depending on the point in their careers)

 

Everyone used to say that players left Buffalo because Ralph was cheap. Now Ralph is gone and winning/team chemistry and trajectory will be the thing that keeps players in WNY. They seem to be headed in the right direction but right now stacking up wins in 2019 is the best medicine to keep home grown talent in our locker room. 

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8 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I really like Tre but right now Gilmore is by a far margin the better CB and to me is the best corner in football.

 

It's the system.  And being allowed to PI and hold and other stuff he never was able to get away with in Buffalo.

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3 hours ago, ganesh said:

But Gilmore did not play at the same level while in BUffalo.  It could have been due to bad coaching or the player preserving himself for the big contract and to play with a contender.  He didn;'t want to play a second contract with Buffalo.

 

I don't believe Gilmore is playing that much better as a Patriot. He's getting more attention because he's a Patriot and not a Bill. Just look at Tre, Levi, Micah and Jordan. There isn't a better secondary in the NFL but your never know it outside of Buffalo.

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14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

In order of players still playing,

1. Peters

2. Gilmore

3. Woods

4. McCoy

This would  be the four I would like to have still.

 

Liked Bradham but Milano/Alexander have made that a non issue :)

 

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2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It's the system.  And being allowed to PI and hold and other stuff he never was able to get away with in Buffalo.

I pray you don’t really believe this because it’s insane. He always have been good.  That why Belichick paid him a lot of money. Just insane Bills fans didn’t like him because he didn’t smile at the draft.  

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't believe Gilmore is playing that much better as a Patriot. He's getting more attention because he's a Patriot and not a Bill. Just look at Tre, Levi, Micah and Jordan. There isn't a better secondary in the NFL but your never know it outside of Buffalo.

Stop.  It’s amazing this inferiority complex some of you have. Gilmore has been always been good and now he’s become great. NE has a slightly better secondary.  And our secondary and defense gets plenty of love.  You do realize that while we have a very good defense, NE’s is borderline all time great.  It’s not made up.

8 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

I could be wrong but I don't remember him being a problem the one year he was here. The guys a tackling machine but don't know if he's a scheme fit, but the man can play.

I always thought he was a bit overrated when he was here but he will get a job quickly. I think everyone agreed with what he said but it was pretty stupid to put it out in the media.

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3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So Tier:  the league has changed and now players are starting to demand trades either for money or just to play on a winning team (depending on the point in their careers)

 

Everyone used to say that players left Buffalo because Ralph was cheap. Now Ralph is gone and winning/team chemistry and trajectory will be the thing that keeps players in WNY. They seem to be headed in the right direction but right now stacking up wins in 2019 is the best medicine to keep home grown talent in our locker room. 

 

I didn't say that they absolutely had to re-sign White, just that they have to make a serious effort to do so which I don't believe that they did with Gilmore -- or with Woods or Goodwin, either -- in 2017.   IIRC, it was a foregone conclusion by observers that Gilmore wouldn't be re-signed even before the 2016 season ended.

 

If a player's unhappy and wants a trade, that's entirely different situation than the team continually refusing to pay the going rate for young talent they developed -- and then turning around and using the draft to fill that hole.

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10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I didn't say that they absolutely had to re-sign White, just that they have to make a serious effort to do so which I don't believe that they did with Gilmore -- or with Woods or Goodwin, either -- in 2017.   IIRC, it was a foregone conclusion by observers that Gilmore wouldn't be re-signed even before the 2016 season ended.

 

If a player's unhappy and wants a trade, that's entirely different situation than the team continually refusing to pay the going rate for young talent they developed -- and then turning around and using the draft to fill that hole.

 

Or it could be that this regime has shown a great ability to develop defensive talent and think to themselves why pay through the roof when we can develop another guy.  Its actually pretty smart.

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4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't believe Gilmore is playing that much better as a Patriot. He's getting more attention because he's a Patriot and not a Bill. Just look at Tre, Levi, Micah and Jordan. There isn't a better secondary in the NFL but your never know it outside of Buffalo.

I think when we're 7-1 , these guys are going to be heavily talked about nationally.  They're incredible! We know Tre/Poyer/Hyde are elite but how bout   Levi ? Kid is playing elite as well , routinely making big plays. Guessing it's because teams have to attack somebody , and he has now proven he's elite as well

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15 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Or it could be that this regime has shown a great ability to develop defensive talent and think to themselves why pay through the roof when we can develop another guy.  Its actually pretty smart.

 

That's only "smart" if you are NOT continually using first and second round draft picks to fill the holes created by allowing young vets to leave.   That's what the Bills did with depressing regularity between 2000 and 2017, and all they did was spin their wheels.      The Bills drafted a DB in the first round in 2001, in the first round in 2006, in the first round in 2008, in the second round in 2009, in the second round in 2011, in the first round in 2012,  in the second round in 2015, and in the first round in 2017.   That's 8 DBs. taken in the first two rounds out of 15 drafts.  They also drafted a RB in the 2nd round in 2002, in the first round in 2003, in the first round in 2007, and in the first round in 2010, which is 4 RBs taken in the first two rounds of 9 drafts.  The 2003 and 2007 RBs were Willis McGahey and Marshawn Lynch, both of whom had long, successful careers, with Lynch likely to be a HOF candidate at some point.    In contrast, the Bills drafted only 5 OLers in the first or second round between 2001 and 2017, and only 1 of those -- Eric Wood -- was a first rounder.

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I pray you don’t really believe this because it’s insane. He always have been good.  That why Belichick paid him a lot of money. Just insane Bills fans didn’t like him because he didn’t smile at the draft.  

Stop.  It’s amazing this inferiority complex some of you have. Gilmore has been always been good and now he’s become great. NE has a slightly better secondary.  And our secondary and defense gets plenty of love.  You do realize that while we have a very good defense, NE’s is borderline all time great.  It’s not made up.

I always thought he was a bit overrated when he was here but he will get a job quickly. I think everyone agreed with what he said but it was pretty stupid to put it out in the media.

 

You really get worked up when people question the Patriots.

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13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You really get worked up when people question the Patriots.

Because I’m rational and don’t live in pretend land. We have a really good defense.  They have a defense that is on a historical level right now so of course, they will get attention.  They are in the SB every year so of course they get praised.  You act like it’s some conspiracy.  When you are in the midst of one of the greatest dynasties in sports history, you are going to get a lot of attention.

 

instead of pretending like they aren’t really good, let’s him we get better and start getting our own attention.  You are a great fan but you have to stop with the persecution complex.

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6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because I’m rational and don’t live in pretend land. We have a really good defense.  They have a defense that is on a historical level right now so of course, they will get attention.  They are in the SB every year so of course they get praised.  You act like it’s some conspiracy.  When you are in the midst of one of the greatest dynasties in sports history, you are going to get a lot of attention.

 

instead of pretending like they aren’t really good, let’s him we get better and start getting our own attention.  You are a great fan but you have to stop with the persecution complex.

 

But that doesn't explain the compulsion to respond to every perceived disrespect of your beloved Patriots. It's like you have to stick up for them.

 

Are you saying that player reputations never get "inflated" by virtue of being a Patriot?

Edited by PromoTheRobot

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Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But that doesn't explain the compulsion to respond to every perceived disrespect of your beloved Patriots. absolutely everything.

 

just wanted to tweak this a bit. 

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51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That's only "smart" if you are NOT continually using first and second round draft picks to fill the holes created by allowing young vets to leave.   That's what the Bills did with depressing regularity between 2000 and 2017, and all they did was spin their wheels.      The Bills drafted a DB in the first round in 2001, in the first round in 2006, in the first round in 2008, in the second round in 2009, in the second round in 2011, in the first round in 2012,  in the second round in 2015, and in the first round in 2017.   That's 8 DBs. taken in the first two rounds out of 15 drafts.  They also drafted a RB in the 2nd round in 2002, in the first round in 2003, in the first round in 2007, and in the first round in 2010, which is 4 RBs taken in the first two rounds of 9 drafts.  The 2003 and 2007 RBs were Willis McGahey and Marshawn Lynch, both of whom had long, successful careers, with Lynch likely to be a HOF candidate at some point.    In contrast, the Bills drafted only 5 OLers in the first or second round between 2001 and 2017, and only 1 of those -- Eric Wood -- was a first rounder.

 

Not sure why you put "smart" in quotations lol.  Anyway, I said the current regime...i.e. 2017 and onward...and I mentioned defense in response to letting Gilmore walk.  I don't know why people seem to link the current regime and ownership with those of the last 15 or 20 years...a LOT of new people.

Edited by Johnnycage46

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