syhuang Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard Oliver has 22% pass rush win rate after 3 games, only behind G.Jarrett, Donald, and Campbell. Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 28% 2. Aaron Donald, Rams, 27% 3. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 26% 4. Ed Oliver, Bills, 22% 5. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 22% 6. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 21% 7. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 20% 8. Eddie Goldman, Bears, 19% 9. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 16% 10. Christian Covington, Cowboys, 16% Also, in the same link above where it also has pass block win rate stats, Morse is #10 (94%) among the centers, only Bills' O-line in top 10 in individual positions. However, Bills has an overall 63% pass block win rate which is good for #6 in all 32 teams. 12 5 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 He's getting close to his first sack. Hopefully this Sunday! 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, syhuang said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard Oliver has 22% pass rush win rate after 3 games, only behind G.Jarrett, Donald, and Campbell. Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 28% 2. Aaron Donald, Rams, 27% 3. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 26% 4. Ed Oliver, Bills, 22% 5. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 22% 6. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 21% 7. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 20% 8. Eddie Goldman, Bears, 19% 9. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 16% 10. Christian Covington, Cowboys, 16% Also, in the same link above where it also has pass block win rate stats, Morse is #10 (94%) among the centers, only Bills' O-line in top 10 in individual positions. However, Bills has an overall 63% pass block win rate which is good for #6 in all 32 teams. I posted this earlier in another thread. and didn't get much response... hopefully its gets its due praise in here. Oliver hasn't gotten "home" yet but he's altered plenty of pockets and throws so far. Oliver collapsing the pocket could mean everything this week Edited September 25, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 How is it a pass rush win if he's not even had a QB hit? Asking for a friend. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) Quick no one tell @Joe in Winslow Edited September 25, 2019 by Warcodered Damn too slow 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Warcodered said: Quick no one tell @Joe in Winslow You're too late. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Rubber Mats Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: How is it a pass rush win if he's not even had a QB hit? Asking for a friend. From the 2nd paragraph of the article: Our Pass Block Win Rate metric tells us the rate at which linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer. Likewise, our Pass Rush Win Rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Our model of pass blocking harnesses player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: How is it a pass rush win if he's not even had a QB hit? Asking for a friend. Because pressures count as much as hits? How many QBs have actually been able to step up into a pocket against us this year? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: How is it a pass rush win if he's not even had a QB hit? Asking for a friend. there was a play he pushed an interior lineman straight back into Dalton altering the throw on sunday. I would call that a win without touching the qb…. I don't get your deal with this dude. there's this stat and the fact that he's gotten the most snaps of any interior lineman on the team and they are top ten in rush yds allowed. I suppose it could be coincidence, but I doubt it.... the guy has done well. period. Edited September 25, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 But show me the baby! I want that sack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, John from Riverside said: Because pressures count as much as hits? How many QBs have actually been able to step up into a pocket against us this year? this.... he's I've noticed the pocket collapsing a handful of times due to Ed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Pass Rush Win Rate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: there was a play he pushed an interior lineman straight back into Dalton altering the throw on sunday. I would call that a win without touching the qb…. I don't get your deal with this dude. there's this stat and the fact that he's gotten the most snaps of any interior lineman on the team and they are top ten in rush yds allowed.... the dude has done well. period. My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Oliver been getting double teamed on a ton of plays . Anyone have the stats behind that? Would love to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: there was a play he pushed an interior lineman straight back into Dalton altering the throw on sunday. I would call that a win without touching the qb…. I don't get your deal with this dude. there's this stat and the fact that he's gotten the most snaps of any interior lineman on the team and they are top ten in rush yds allowed.... the dude has done well. period. The problem is Ed Oliver's name isn't D.K. Metcalf. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, gregor7777 said: From the 2nd paragraph of the article: Our Pass Block Win Rate metric tells us the rate at which linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer. Likewise, our Pass Rush Win Rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Our model of pass blocking harnesses player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats. These next gen stats are useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Ed has been pretty good esp for a rookie, but you would like to see those big impact plays like sacks and QB hits. But the eye test and now the advanced stats give you the impression that it is only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted September 25, 2019 Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: How is it a pass rush win if he's not even had a QB hit? Asking for a friend. This link has the explanation of PBWR and PRWR: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24892208/creating-better-nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-stats-analytics-explainer-faq-how-work OK, what is this exactly? Our new Pass Block Win Rate metric tells us the rate at which linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer. Likewise, our Pass Rush Win Rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Our model of pass blocking harnesses player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats. So, what can these stats help show? Now we finally have objective individual stats for linemen for their most critical tasks -- defending and attacking the passer. We can also know who is blocking whom on every snap, who was double-teamed, who got pressure from the edges and who got pressure by collapsing the pocket. The end result is that we can assess individual performance and team-level performance in the trenches separate and apart from the performance of the quarterback, receivers and secondary. How do they work? It's actually pretty simple -- there's no fancy machine learning involved. Our model uses the location, proximity and orientation of each player relative to every other player throughout a play to determine who is blocking whom. When a pass-rusher beats his block, we can tell which blocker allowed the pressure. And just as importantly, we know how long after the snap it occurred. Why are they better than stats? Metrics like QB pressures and time in pocket might be useful, but they can be misleading. A QB pressure can occur for several reasons other than unreliable pass protection, such as good coverage, poor route-running or missed reads by the quarterback. Our win rate metric isolates line play from those other factors. Also, time in pocket metrics don't know the difference between a quick read and release by the quarterback and ineffective pass protection. If a passer throws at 1.8 seconds after the snap, does that mean he only had 1.8 seconds to throw, or did he execute his read quickly? Our metrics know the difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, nucci said: Pass Rush Win Rate? Yes, we get it. You dont. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Rubber Mats Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, nucci said: These next gen stats are useless I disagree completely. It's all about how you use them. None of them paint the whole picture, but this one is interesting to me. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, nucci said: These next gen stats are useless well that's a bit naïve.... they aren't some "end all be all", they have their place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Would be great if he gets his 1st NFL sack on Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment. Who at pick 9 would you have rather drafted? I get wanting DK but he fell to the very late stages of the second round for a reason (and I would agree that the team would have been better served trading up for him from pick 76 but not taking him at pick 9 or 41.) I don't see what receivers were there instead of Ed Oliver that would have really changed the dimensions of the offense. Without Ed the team would only have J.Phillips and Star at DT thanks the Henry's injury. The team is also a bit old on the D-line only Henery and Shaq (who is on the last year of his deal) being true young players there. So not only does Ed help the team solidify their D-line depth but he is a key cog that the D-line can be built around the the next 5-7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Would be great if he gets his 1st NFL sack on Brady. Maybe a pass rush win rate will change the outcome of a game. Hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Maybe a pass rush win rate will change the outcome of a game. Hm. I think its already changed the outcome of plays and drives.... so it may be a help for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Stank_Nasty said: I think its already changed the outcome of plays and drives.... so it may be a help for sure. Pass rush has been pretty anemic, so I don't think so. But hey, who knows. This guy could end up being good. Just not too hopeful about it at the moment. 3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Who at pick 9 would you have rather drafted? I get wanting DK but he fell to the very late stages of the second round for a reason (and I would agree that the team would have been better served trading up for him from pick 76 but not taking him at pick 9 or 41.) I don't see what receivers were there instead of Ed Oliver that would have really changed the dimensions of the offense. Without Ed the team would only have J.Phillips and Star at DT thanks the Henry's injury. The team is also a bit old on the D-line only Henery and Shaq (who is on the last year of his deal) being true young players there. So not only does Ed help the team solidify their D-line depth but he is a key cog that the D-line can be built around the the next 5-7 years. Sorry, no offense. I have NO desire to rehash that conversation. Just go back to the draft threads and you'll see my objection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment. So you don't like a player and question his play, simply because you wanted a different guy drafted? Are you actually watching him play? It seems you're letting your preconceived draft beliefs guide your opinion long beyond the draft and just ignoring all facts to the contrary. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Pass rush has been pretty anemic, so I don't think so. But hey, who knows. This guy could end up being good. Just not too hopeful about it at the moment. after 3 games this is where you are at??? geez, man. 3 games in which he's been solid. not even bad. man, I've seen a ton of posts from you and they are all pretty level headed...… until Ed Oliver is the topic. Edited September 25, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Magox said: Yes, we get it. You dont. so if he wins his pass rush but the QB throws a TD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Maybe a pass rush win rate will change the outcome of a game. Hm. Lol, I wonder..... I just hope he can win his matchups for the most part when he isnt double teamed and hopefully he can get Brady on the ground. I guess it couldn't be a better QB to get your 1st QB sack on. But main thing is hope Bills win before I hope he gets his 1st sack of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Dan said: So you don't like a player and question his play, simply because you wanted a different guy drafted? Are you actually watching him play? It seems you're letting your preconceived draft beliefs guide your opinion long beyond the draft and just ignoring all facts to the contrary. Cliffs Notes version: If my team is taking a DT at 9, he'd better be the next coming of Warren Sapp. Is Ed Oliver the next coming of Warren Sapp? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Pass rush has been pretty anemic, so I don't think so. But hey, who knows. This guy could end up being good. Just not too hopeful about it at the moment. Sorry, no offense. I have NO desire to rehash that conversation. Just go back to the draft threads and you'll see my objection. I am not going to do all that research but I just don't think the way the draft board fell that there was an pass catcher there that you could have justified taking over a player that was a complete steal at pick 9. I think the better argument is to have taken DK by trading back up into the second as he was falling close to pick 60. They wouldn't have had a chance to draft Singletary most likely as they would have had to package the pick used for him and one of their 4th rounders to make such a trade. But I would have much rather come away with Oliver, Ford DK, and taken a chance that Knox falls to the late 4th or take another TE there than to have had Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Knox. But as with anything it is always going to come down to results. If Knox and Singletary end up as quality starters and DK's career is derailed with injuries it proves everyone wrong or right . 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Cliffs Notes version: If my team is taking a DT at 9, he'd better be the next coming of Warren Sapp. Is Ed Oliver the next coming of Warren Sapp? He was drawing comparisons to Aaron Donald and Jarrett both of whom are top DT's in the league. Is your issue that you think he won't ever be a Warren Sapp type player or that he isn't one right out of the gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: He was drawing comparisons to Aaron Donald and Jarrett both of whom are top DT's in the league. Is your issue that you think he won't ever be a Warren Sapp type player or that he isn't one right out of the gate? I expect pretty much immediate impact from a top 10 pick, honestly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Cliffs Notes version: If my team is taking a DT at 9, he'd better be the next coming of Warren Sapp. Is Ed Oliver the next coming of Warren Sapp? How on earth would anyone be able to answer that after 3 games? If anyone thinks they know the answer this early then that’s pretty silly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reader Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 As someone with an untrained eye, it is nice to see that Oliver is doing a lot even if it isn't showing on the stat sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Asking for a friend. Huh. I find it hard to believe you have any... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: I expect pretty much immediate impact from a top 10 pick, honestly. Would that be something like coming in and logging the most snaps on the inside of anyone on the team while the run d goes through a 3 game stretch of elite RB’s and comes out top ten in rush yds allowed? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 That's great. Shows his early success...he loves the game and is only going to get better. Eddie O...I dig the guy alot. He's humble, funny and infectious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Lurker said: Huh. I find it hard to believe you have any... Oh aren't you clever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamkrgr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Oliver has been pretty good in my view. Creates a bunch of havoc in the pocket. Chases ball carriers well. If this is his floor we should be very happy. I'm stoked to see how he progresses over the next few years as he gets stronger and more experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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