Pats* release Antonio Brown

[Beast]

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Yeah. Up to that point, things could not have been too weird yet because Beane at least inquired about Brown. Beane obviously sensed something wrong.

 

Again, his public behavior in Pgh was enough to warrant not paying him much, if any, guaranteed money.  Brown wasn't going for that so it make it moot, thankfully.  If Beane learned of the other stuff, it probably wouldn't have happened at any price.

[SirAndrew]

21 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Yeah. Up to that point, things could not have been too weird yet because Beane at least inquired about Brown. Beane obviously sensed something wrong.

I don’t know if Beane really knew anything. Brown just wasn’t going to sign here anyway. 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I don’t know if Beane really knew anything. Brown just wasn’t going to sign here anyway. 

 

He wasn't going to sign with the Bills because they weren't going to pay him.  If they paid him, he'd have gone there, just like he did with the Raiders.  And I don't doubt Beane found out some things.

[dhg]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

That is gold!

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He wasn't going to sign with the Bills because they weren't going to pay him.  If they paid him, he'd have gone there, just like he did with the Raiders.  And I don't doubt Beane found out some things.

I didn’t ever see a guy like Brown signing with Buffalo, and I’m usually the guy who says free agency signings are all about money. Brown wanted attention in a big market. He didn’t even want to play with Raiders once he signed there, so it’s hard for me picture him playing in Buffalo. I love what Beane has done for this team,  but sometimes I think people elevate him to mythical status. Two other GM’s signed Brown before his career came to a likely end. That makes it hard for me to believe that GM’s around the league know too much about the current drama. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by SirAndrew

[Rocket94]

9 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I don’t know if Beane really knew anything. Brown just wasn’t going to sign here anyway. 

Yeah right. Didn't Brown tell his agent to not bother or something?

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again, his public behavior in Pgh was enough to warrant not paying him much, if any, guaranteed money.  Brown wasn't going for that so it make it moot, thankfully.  If Beane learned of the other stuff, it probably wouldn't have happened at any price.

Yes. We now know the rest.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I didn’t ever see a guy like Brown signing with Buffalo, and I’m usually the guy who says free agency signings are all about money. Brown wanted attention in a big market. He didn’t even want to play with Raiders once he signed there, so it’s hard for me picture him playing in Buffalo. 

 

Benjamin Allbright tweeted that teams, including the Bills, backed-off when they heard his contract demands, plus the need to surrender a pick or picks, so there wasn't a market for him.  It's also possible they knew of his off-field stuff.  Only 1 team was willing to pay him, Oakland, so he signed with them and they got burned for it. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

How much of his contract was guaranteed? 

 

$9MM supposedly. $5MM in 2019.

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Let's not forget they traded WR D. Thomas away thinking AB would replace him. Now they are down 2 WRs.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

$9MM supposedly. $5MM in 2019.

 

Let's not forget they traded WR D. Thomas away thinking AB would replace him. Now they are down 2 WRs.

They still have 7 refs on their team though. 

[SirAndrew]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Benjamin Allbright tweeted that teams, including the Bills, backed-off when they heard his contract demands, plus the need to surrender a pick or picks, so there wasn't a market for him.  It's also possible they knew of his off-field stuff.  Only 1 team was willing to pay him, Oakland, so he signed with them and they got burned for it. 

Yeah, I’m just happy the trade didn’t happen. It would have set this franchise back big time. 

[SirAndrew]

34 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Yeah right. Didn't Brown tell his agent to not bother or something?

Yes. We now know the rest.

When the Brown trade didn’t happen there were dozens of conflicting articles regarding why he didn’t end up in Buffalo. Some of those articles stated that Rosenhaus wouldn’t even give the Bills Brown’s number because he knew Brown wouldn’t go there. In a phone call with Rosenhaus, Brown agreed that he had no interest in Buffalo. If this is the case, the financial aspect and whether or not Beane had dirt on Brown is irrelevant. Brown simply wasn’t coming here. Who knows what would have happened had he been willing to. Beane (who I do like as GM) now comes out smelling like a rose because of it. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by SirAndrew

[Rocket94]

4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

When the Brown trade didn’t happen there were dozens of conflicting articles regarding why he didn’t end up in Buffalo. Some of those articles stated that Rosenhaus wouldn’t even give the Bills Brown’s number because he knew Brown wouldn’t go there. In a phone call with Rosenhaus, Brown agreed that he had no interest in Buffalo. If this is the case, the financial aspect and whether or not Beane had dirt on Brown is irrelevant. Brown simply wasn’t coming here. Who knows what would have happened had he been willing to. Beane (who I do like as GM) now comes out smelling like a rose because of it. 

Excellent post. You have clarified everything!

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How does AB play a game and not be owed his guarantee? Also his detrimental behavior did not include charges being filed. I'm sure the NFLPA will have something to say on this.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMidWh0dHBzOi8vc3BvcnRzLnlhaG9vLmNvbS9hbnRvbmlvLWJyb3duLWxpa2VseS1jb3N0LWhpbXNlbGYtbWlsbGlvbnMtYnktZ2V0dGluZy1jdXQtYnktcmFpZGVycy1wYXRyaW90cy0yMTM0MTU5NDEuaHRtbNIBfWh0dHBzOi8vc3BvcnRzLnlhaG9vLmNvbS9hbXBodG1sL2FudG9uaW8tYnJvd24tbGlrZWx5LWNvc3QtaGltc2VsZi1taWxsaW9ucy1ieS1nZXR0aW5nLWN1dC1ieS1yYWlkZXJzLXBhdHJpb3RzLTIxMzQxNTk0MS5odG1s?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

...if the Pats' capologist structured this deal (especially signing bonus) with no safeguard contingencies, shame on him and I'd fire him in  nanosecond based  on this clown's "glorious past and present"....first installment is due Sept 23 so maybe he did...at least when Richie returned to Bflo, Overdorf structured his deal as a "pay as you go basis".....he was paid per game....eff up and you're gone with NO cap implications.....behave for all 16 and there are some significant incentives to be earned which he did....

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

When the Brown trade didn’t happen there were dozens of conflicting articles regarding why he didn’t end up in Buffalo. Some of those articles stated that Rosenhaus wouldn’t even give the Bills Brown’s number because he knew Brown wouldn’t go there. In a phone call with Rosenhaus, Brown agreed that he had no interest in Buffalo. If this is the case, the financial aspect and whether or not Beane had dirt on Brown is irrelevant. Brown simply wasn’t coming here. Who knows what would have happened had he been willing to. Beane (who I do like as GM) not gets to look like a genius because of it. 

 

Forget the articles, the laughable phone calls, rumors etc. and look at who Brown was traded to, what he pulled there, and what got him cut from the Cheaters.  Then realize Beane, while he did inquire, knew well enough to stay away from this turd.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Doc

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How does AB play a game and not be owed his guarantee? Also his detrimental behavior did not include charges being filed. I'm sure the NFLPA will have something to say on this.

“And a few days before $5 million of his signing bonus was due from the Patriots, they also moved on after new allegations became public. The Patriots might have to fight Brown over the payment of that signing bonus, but broad language in the contract probably favors the Patriots in that battle.”

Those were costly texts. Brown was due a $5 million portion of his signing bonus next Monday, according to NBC Sports Boston’s Tom Curran. That was the first portion of his $9 million signing bonus. As Yahoo Sports’ Charles Robinson wrote on Sept. 11, the Patriots had language in Brown’s contract that allowed them to void all $9 million of the guaranteed money if he took any action “undermining” the public image of the club. You’d have to assume that standard was met.”

 

yahoo sports article

 

I don’t care either way but this is what I keep reading in article after article.

 

Craft has some sway and the Pats FO knows what it is doing.

 

My prediction is AB doesn’t see a cent of his bonus money.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

When the Brown trade didn’t happen there were dozens of conflicting articles regarding why he didn’t end up in Buffalo. Some of those articles stated that Rosenhaus wouldn’t even give the Bills Brown’s number because he knew Brown wouldn’t go there. In a phone call with Rosenhaus, Brown agreed that he had no interest in Buffalo. If this is the case, the financial aspect and whether or not Beane had dirt on Brown is irrelevant. Brown simply wasn’t coming here. Who knows what would have happened had he been willing to. Beane (who I do like as GM) now comes out smelling like a rose because of it. 

 

 

...not even sure if McBeane merely inquired or whether a preliminary deal was sketched out.....cannot see McDermott being "100% all in" on a clown who would fit the "process" like a size 14 foot in a size 6 shoe....strictly my opinion (with respect for those that differ), but I find it hard to believe that signing this azzclown in their analysis would not lead to and "Excedrin overdose".........

Edited September 21, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...not even sure if McBeane merely inquired or whether a preliminary deal was sketched out.....cannot see McDermott being "100% all in" on a clown who would fit the "process" like a size 14 foot in a size 6 shoe....strictly my opinion (with respect for those that differ), but I find it hard to believe that signing this azzclown in their analysis would not lead to and "Excedrin overdose".........

 

It was likely just an inquiry.  A trade deal would only have been worked-out if they agreed on a contract with Brown, because the larger the contract, the lower the trade compensation.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

53 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Benjamin Allbright tweeted that teams, including the Bills, backed-off when they heard his contract demands, plus the need to surrender a pick or picks, so there wasn't a market for him.  It's also possible they knew of his off-field stuff.  Only 1 team was willing to pay him, Oakland, so he signed with them and they got burned for it. 

 

 

That is extremely unlikely.  If they had known they would not have asked what the price was.

 

Clearly AB and his agent would not have been, at that time, telling potential teams what was coming in the form of a possible civil suit.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Doc said:

 

It was likely just an inquiry.  A deal would only have been worked-out if they agreed on a contract with Brown, because the more the contract, the lower the trade compensation.

 

...agree Doc.....this is getting juicier than a "Susan Lucci soap".....read a PFT post last night where someone said all of these recent indiscretion revelations have been launched by anti-Pats fans to force Belichick to release him.....LMAO......it's a conspiracy and he's the VICTIM............

[Albany,n.y.]

All this negativity, look at the positive side:

 

He lasted almost twice as long in New England as Anthony Scaramucci lasted in Washington. 

[SirAndrew]

 

 

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It was likely just an inquiry.  A trade deal would only have been worked-out if they agreed on a contract with Brown, because the larger the contract, the lower the trade compensation.

I hear you, but it makes no sense to even inquire about a guy with a reputation of being toxic, if you weren’t somewhat interested. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just stating that I was always confused by Beane having any interest in Brown whatsoever. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by SirAndrew

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

 

 

I hear you, but it makes no sense to even inquire about a guy with a reputation of being toxic, if you weren’t somewhat interested. 

 

Of course it doesn't.  For the right price, the Bills would have taken him.  No reason to believe otherwise.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

That is extremely unlikely.  If they had known they would not have asked what the price was.

 

Clearly AB and his agent would not have been, at that time, telling potential teams what was coming in the form of a possible civil suit.

 

Beane probably looked into Brown's past himself.  Using contacts and such.  It's a large investment he would be making.

[SirAndrew]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Of course it doesn't.  For the right price, the Bills would have taken him.  No reason to believe otherwise.

Absolutely, plus he didn’t want to come here, so that’s a major issue too. The dude released a tape of himself telling Rosenhaus he didn’t want to come to Buffalo (so it’s certainly not fake news). 

Edited September 21, 2019 by SirAndrew

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I hear you, but it makes no sense to even inquire about a guy with a reputation of being toxic, if you weren’t somewhat interested. 

 

Every team had interest.  Hell the Cheaters were willing to offer a 1st rounder.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Of course it doesn't.  For the right price, the Bills would have taken him.  No reason to believe otherwise.

 

I've never said otherwise.  But "right price" means taking over his existing contract, i.e. no new contract and no guaranteed money.

[Buffalo Boy]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Of course it doesn't.  For the right price, the Bills would have taken him.  No reason to believe otherwise.

Coaches and GMs have learning curves too.

I take this as s bullet dodged and hopefully a lesson learned by McBean

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

$9MM supposedly. $5MM in 2019.

 

Let's not forget they traded WR D. Thomas away thinking AB would replace him. Now they are down 2 WRs.

 

I don’t think they expected much out of DT though, realistically 

Just now, Buffalo Boy said:

Coaches and GMs have learning curves too.

I take this as s bullet dodged and hopefully a lesson learned by McBean

 

Frankly, taking a risk on these guys is part of the game. I hope that brown going off the rails in a spectacular fashion does not scare him away from future opportunities. 

 

do your homework. Try to minimize risk. But still pull the trigger even if it’s not a promise to work out. 

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Coaches and GMs have learning curves too.

I take this as s bullet dodged and hopefully a lesson learned by McBean

 

There's no lesson for Beane to learn.  He never made the deal.  There is no harm in inquiring and if you never ask, you'll never know. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

I don’t think they expected much out of DT though, realistically 

 

Frankly, taking a risk on these guys is part of the game. I hope that brown going off the rails in a spectacular fashion does not scare him away from future opportunities. 

 

do your homework. Try to minimize risk. But still pull the trigger even if it’s not a promise to work out. 

 

...sure but structure the deal as Overdorf eloquently did with Richie.....pay as you go with a "no harm no foul out".....and if your potential signee doesn't bite, you know damn well he is not interested in fulfilling HIS commitment....

[Doc]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...sure but structure the deal as Overdorf eloquently did with Richie.....pay as you go with a "no harm no foul out".....and if your potential signee doesn't bite, you know damn well he is not interested in fulfilling HIS commitment....

 

And that looks like what they wanted to do.  But Brown wanted to get paid.

[Buffalo Boy]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

There's no lesson for Beane to learn.  He never made the deal.  There is no harm in inquiring and if you never ask, you'll never know. 

We do not just learn from our own mistakes but from others if we are smart.

I agree there is nothing wrong with kicking the tires but every GM has to know what is good for his team. 

The benefit of dropping a time bomb into a young locker room like ours is a mistake that I don’t want to see.

The Pat situation is completely different 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

There's no lesson for Beane to learn.  He never made the deal.  There is no harm in inquiring and if you never ask, you'll never know. 

 

Agree 100%.  My guess is that Beane proposed a true, "show me," deal with no guaranteed money, but plenty of incentives.  Absolutely zero harm, there, IMO.

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Coaches and GMs have learning curves too.

I take this as s bullet dodged and hopefully a lesson learned by McBean

I think AB is a unique case. 

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

We do not just learn from our own mistakes but from others if we are smart.

I agree there is nothing wrong with kicking the tires but every GM has to know what is good for his team. 

The benefit of dropping a time bomb into a young locker room like ours is a mistake that I don’t want to see.

The Pat situation is completely different 

I agree. Even without the lawsuit situation, Brown would have never been good for this team. It was already common knowledge that he was a poor teammate/diva. My opinion might not mean much though, I also think the duo of Landry/Beckham will prove to be bad for Mayfield’s development. 

[NoSaint]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...sure but structure the deal as Overdorf eloquently did with Richie.....pay as you go with a "no harm no foul out".....and if your potential signee doesn't bite, you know damn well he is not interested in fulfilling HIS commitment....

 

Thats a bit presumptuous, as you never know what life might throw at a guy. Especially if some accusations have been false they could hesitate or they have other offers you may have to take on some risk.

 

but you measure that vs the potential reward. In this case it was a lot like you throw out there. The raiders were flush with picks and lost a day two pick and zero dollars. I’m ok with risks like that for elite players 

 

theres no shoe fits all with these situations and despite it not working out for the raiders, I don’t think it was near the disaster some would probably suggest it was for them. If they make similar moves a couple times and hit on half... say two thirds get burned for one nutcase they cut and one nutcase that gives them an all pro performance on a reasonable contract... it’s not a terrible outcome as long as you are managing expectations and know what you are getting into 

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree 100%.  My guess is that Beane proposed a true, "show me," deal with no guaranteed money, but plenty of incentives.  Absolutely zero harm, there, IMO.

 

Ultimately, exactly what he signed in Oakland too

25 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

We do not just learn from our own mistakes but from others if we are smart.

I agree there is nothing wrong with kicking the tires but every GM has to know what is good for his team. 

The benefit of dropping a time bomb into a young locker room like ours is a mistake that I don’t want to see.

The Pat situation is completely different 

 

Meh. It’s all how you manage it. If you have good leadership one would hope our young players might learn what not to be from that exposure if the player is a train wreck. If you have a young and volatile group without positive leaders it can go terrible for sure though