The Bills need to keep Duke Williams

[One Buffalo]

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by One Buffalo

[elroy16]

4 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

This feels like one of those situations where another team tries to poach him and the Bills elevate him to the 53 to keep him. We'll see, hopefully that doesn't happen, but I think he'll be on a 53 man roster at some point this year.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

  1.) I didn't say Zay has proven to be a great or even good player, but he is a proven player especially in this comparison. 2.) Maybe Duke has to work harder but it's because he screwed up a bunch of times, it's not like he messed up once or twice, it's all been self-inflicted. He needs to be the one to dig himself out of the hole he dug, no one can do that for him 3.) Zay's not the one that's disappointing between the two. Duke had the opportunity to play for a SEC Team and blew it. He tried out with the Rams in 2016 and couldn't land a spot on any NFL team, Since 2016 through at least to start the season 2019 he has failed to make a 53 man roster. He wasn't claimed by a single team when he was just cut and put on waivers. Not even by the Pats*** who could use some help at WR especially early on this year and have shown they aren't afraid to take a chance on a player. 

 

   Zay on the other hand was drafted in the second round two years ago and has been a starter in 25 of his 32 games as a Bill. He's made much more of his opportunities, not squandered them. Duke trying to turn his life around and make the 53 man roster is a great story and here's hoping he can. But I can't see him sticking on a NFL roster as is, he's the equivalent of a specialty player. One more thing....they may not play with Nerf footballs in the CFL, but they also don't play with NFL talent.

 

 

As much as I'm a Duke booster, this is essentially correct.  Zay IS a proven NFL performer, and Duke is not.  

14 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

I just don't see how you can keep a guy who catches balls like that off the field.  He outfights everyone for the ball.  

Edited September 4, 2019 by Shaw66

[stosh64]

29 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

Damn!  When is the last time we saw a Bills player make the type of catches Duke has made routinely this preseason?

 

When is the last time Zay caught a contested ball?

 

Duke is hungry and it is being noticed by the look of Daboll after this catch.

 

Is there a minimum amount of time required before players can be called up from the PS? 

 

Quote

As much as I'm a Duke booster, this is essentially correct.  Zay IS a proven NFL performer, and Duke is not. 

Zay has proven he catches just under HALF the balls thrown his way.

 

2017:   74 targets,  27 rec.

2018:   102 targets  56 rec 

Edited September 4, 2019 by stosh64
combined posts

[Alphadawg7]

He won’t be on the PS long if he keeps doing this.  Either our 53 or someone else’s.  

[*******]

Soooo if duke is actually as good as some people think on here why didn’t anyone else pick him up on waivers ?

[Bangarang]

42 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

 

What he did to the DB is illegal in several states. If he keeps up making plays in practice then he may get called up at some point. Hope he makes the most of this opportunity 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Bangarang

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

Zay has proven he catches barely HALF the balls thrown his way.

 

2017:   74 targets,  27 rec.

2018:   102 targets  56 rec 

 

If you're going to go that route, this is from what most on here have called a WR with great hands:

 

2017: 83 targets, 46 rec.

2018: 152 targets, 88 recs.

 

Is it a little better, sure is, but one is against NFL CBs & one is against CFL CBs.  One could argue Zay has played with an NFL QB, which once again at face value is true. But the 2 year QB rotation since Zay has been here has been: Taylor, Peterman, Taylor, Peterman, rookie Allen, Anderson, Barkley & finally rookie Allen. They're scaring no one. All things considered, which is better?

3 minutes ago, ******* said:

Soooo if duke is actually as good as some people think on here why didn’t anyone else pick him up on waivers ?

Believe me no one can answer this question, I've asked it a couple times, there's never a reason given. Not even the Pats*** claimed him and they have shown to be a team that is willing take a chance on a player if they think he will be good and they are in need of WR help especially early this year. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

There has to be a place in the game for a WR who is bigger and stronger on the ball and more intense that his defenders.  Has to be.

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, ******* said:

Soooo if duke is actually as good as some people think on here why didn’t anyone else pick him up on waivers ?

Somebody actually posted a good discussion of this.   Very few guys get picked up off waivers after the final cuts.   The reason is that the guy is a complete unknown to your coaches.   They just got done making some very hard decisions about whom to cut, and they've almost always cut guys they like, and they almost always are happy with the guys they kept.  So they aren't ready to cut one of those guys who they're happy to have in order to acquire a guy they know only one thing about - the guy didn't make some other team.   And in this case, it's a guy who didn't make another team on a previous try, a guy who has baggage, and a guy who is relatively slow.   Duke isn't the kind of guy who gets added to someone else's team a day after the team got down to their final 53.  

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, JESSEFEFFER said:

There has to be a place in the game for a WR who is bigger and stronger on the ball and more intense that his defenders.  Has to be.

There was in the 80s and 90s, but the game has changed since then. He slow and really couldn't be used in between the 20s, only for Redzone plays at this point. IMO put on 25-30 pounds and spend the year on the PS making the switch to TE, where I think he could be top 10 at that position.

[stosh64]

6 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

So we know what we have in Zay, a not quite 50% catcher and someone who does NOT fight for a contested ball.

During the start of this season, first 6-8 games, we will see if Zay has progressed into the next level NFL receiver.  We will see if he is willing AND able to come down with those contested passes.  We will also find out if his lacking ability to catch the ball has improved, as it must in order to remain with the 53.

 

IMO we need to bring Duke up and see what he's got.  Worst case he shows he is inept at the NFL level and we cut him.  Best case we find out we have an ace in the hole in the red zone and short yardage situations.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

There was in the 80s and 90s, but the game has changed since then. He slow and really couldn't be used in between the 20s, only for Redzone plays at this point. IMO put on 25-30 pounds and spend the year on the PS making the switch to TE, where I think he could be top 10 at that position.

People keep making this red zone argument, and it just doesn't make sense.  Why would he be good in the red zone and not other parts of the field.  His ability, or lack of ability, to separate is MORE important in the red zone, where the man coverages are tighter and the seams in the zones are smaller.   If he can be a factor in the red zone, that means he's a guy you can throw to for five to 20 yard completions.  If he's good for that in the red zone, he's good for that all over the field.  

 

He'll never be a classic tight end, because he isn't tall enough.  He could be one of those tight ends who's primarily a receiver and isn't counted on to do any serious blocking along the line. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

There was in the 80s and 90s, but the game has changed since then. He slow and really couldn't be used in between the 20s, only for Redzone plays at this point. IMO put on 25-30 pounds and spend the year on the PS making the switch to TE, where I think he could be top 10 at that position.

Everybody always wants to do that with a jumbo size QB or WR... Problem is it doenst work out 95% of the time

 

First he is barely 6'3.   He would be an extremely small TE even with 25 extra pounds

 

Second, he is already on the slower side, adding 25 pounds will put him into quicksand

 

It will also affect his leaping ability which is good but not elite. He may not be able to out jump people with 25 more pounds

 

And not all players have the ability to add or drop 20-30 pounds from there frame and stay at a NFL playing level. A kid with long limbs fresh outta college has room to grow

 

A man who had 3 years of weight training in the CFL and 1 in the NFL is close to being physically maxed out with his size.  Because there is a such thing as too big

[Malazan]

8 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

So we know what we have in Zay, a not quite 50% catcher and someone who does NOT fight for a contested ball.

During the start of this season, first 6-8 games, we will see if Zay has progressed into the next level NFL receiver.  We will see if he is willing AND able to come down with those contested passes.  We will also find out if his lacking ability to catch the ball has improved, as it must in order to remain with the 53.

 

IMO we need to bring Duke up and see what he's got.  Worst case he shows he is inept at the NFL level and we cut him.  Best case we find out we have an ace in the hole in the red zone and short yardage situations.

 

That's a solid plan for roster building. If you keep 53 players who all have a chance to be that 1 in a million favor than the math definitely works out for you.

[Ta111]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

People keep making this red zone argument, and it just doesn't make sense.  Why would he be good in the red zone and not other parts of the field.  His ability, or lack of ability, to separate is MORE important in the red zone, where the man coverages are tighter and the seams in the zones are smaller.   If he can be a factor in the red zone, that means he's a guy you can throw to for five to 20 yard completions.  If he's good for that in the red zone, he's good for that all over the field.  

 

He'll never be a classic tight end, because he isn't tall enough.  He could be one of those tight ends who's primarily a receiver and isn't counted on to do any serious blocking along the line. 

Good point. If a guy can make contested catches in the red zone, he can make them all over the field. I also go back to Beane’s comment in the beginning of August when he pointed out that “separation” was a bit overrated in bad weather games when being physical is more important.

[ColoradoBills]

26 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

There has to be a place in the game for a WR who is bigger and stronger on the ball and more intense that his defenders.  Has to be.

 

It's also good to see how the team is still competing hard in practice too.

Lots of hunger on this team!

[Malazan]

The Legend of Kiko is dead. Long Live the Legend of Duke!

Edited September 4, 2019 by jeremy2020

[JESSEFEFFER]

19 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

There was in the 80s and 90s, but the game has changed since then. He slow and really couldn't be used in between the 20s, only for Redzone plays at this point. IMO put on 25-30 pounds and spend the year on the PS making the switch to TE, where I think he could be top 10 at that position.

 

It wasn't too long ago when Buddy Nix said the Bills needed a receiver who can be open even when he wasn't.  Strange, but he never succeeded in that quest.  That was not in the 80's/90's.  It was two years ago when the Bills signed Anquan Boldin to be that fill that role.  Kelvin Benjamin was on the team last year to be that and he failed because he was not strong at the catch point, imo.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, One Buffalo said:

Duke isn't letting up... how long until he makes the roster?

 

 

 

WOW.  Just WOW.

 

Duke ain't stayin' on PS long doin' that.

 

Those passes were RIGHT on the money too.

Edited September 4, 2019 by reddogblitz