Mass shooting at El Paso Walmart/and also Dayton OH

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

That’s a stretch and you know it.  I am a responsible gun owner.  I have never been convicted of a crime...certainly not a felony.  A 9mm pistol is entirely different than an AR-15 and you know it.

 

@Gugny would disagree. He believes that there's no reason anyone should own a semi-automatic weapon.

 

And he's not alone with that thought.

 

Me, personally, as I said, I don't own a weapon. But I can forsee a future need.

 

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

I believe elected representatives should be the ones to decide on regulations because I know of no better system to do so, do you?

 

I agree on that point, to the point where they don't enact unconstitutional laws.

 

No one should be for that.

 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

@Gugny would disagree. He believes that there's no reason anyone should own a semi-automatic weapon.

 

And he's not alone with that thought.

 

Me, personally, as I said, I don't own a weapon. But I can forsee a future need.

 

 

I agree on that point, to the point where they don't enact unconstitutional laws.

 

No one should be for that.

 

 

And to one of the original points (of our discussion) anyone behind enacting unconstitutional laws would be an extremist.

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not a fan.

 

Not a fan of 8chan; or not a fan of shutting it down?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

@Gugny would disagree. He believes that there's no reason anyone should own a semi-automatic weapon.

 

And he's not alone with that thought.

 

Me, personally, as I said, I don't own a weapon. But I can forsee a future need.

 

 

I agree on that point, to the point where they don't enact unconstitutional laws.

 

No one should be for that.

 

1. That's what the supreme court is for.

2. That's what amendments are for.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

And to one of the original points (of our discussion) anyone behind enacting unconstitutional laws would be an extremist.

 

Not a fan of 8chan; or not a fan of shutting it down?

.

Not a fan of shutting it down.

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

1. That's what the supreme court is for.

2. That's what amendments are for.

 

Good luck with the second process 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

.

Not a fan of shutting it down.

 

Good luck with the second process 

If an amendment were necessary sure but there has already been regulation put in place which would seem to throw out the whole broadness of the infringement part.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

If an amendment were necessary sure but there has already been regulation put in place which would seem to throw out the whole broadness of the infringement part.

 

And all of that regulation is unconstitutional.

[Warcodered]

30 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And all of that regulation is unconstitutional.

True but I'd say there are at least two real basic ways to look at it. 1 with that infringe there, there can be no law to regulate the ownership of weapons(arms is very unspecific so enjoy your new tank). 2. ownership of weapons is regulated within a militia system(probably don't get to just randomly own a gun here).

 

This is probably the biggest problem with the 2nd amendment it was written around 230 years ago and nobody has done anything to update it. I mean seriously the most powerful weapon back then was what a cannon? Who is going to go on a murder spree with a cannon, you'd at best get one shot off and then everyone would either escape or mob you.

 

Also how does a law written at least 100 years before their invention somehow give people retroactively the right to own them? Seriously if we take this law literally as it was written back in the day then either I have to be part of some sort of regulated militia to have a gun or I can have a nuke and the government can kiss my ass.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

True but I'd say there are at least two real basic ways to look at it. 1 with that infringe there, there can be no law to regulate the ownership of weapons(arms is very unspecific so enjoy your new tank). 2. ownership of weapons is regulated within a militia system(probably don't get to just randomly own a gun here).

 

This is probably the biggest problem with the 2nd amendment it was written around 230 years ago and nobody has done anything to update it. I mean seriously the most powerful weapon back then was what a cannon? Who is going to go on a murder spree with a cannon, you'd at best get one shot off and then everyone would either escape or mob you.

 

Also how does a law written at least 100 years before their invention somehow give people retroactively the right to own them? Seriously if we take this law literally as it was written back in the day then either I have to be part of some sort of regulated militia to have a gun or I can have a nuke and the government can kiss my ass.

 

This comes back to my first amendment argument. Can't we say the same thing? That it's outdated, needs updating?

 

The reason this nation has been so successful has been the Constitution and it's absolute authority. Let me ask you this morning one of the pro abolition of the electoral college people?

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

This comes back to my first amendment argument. Can't we say the same thing? That it's outdated, needs updating?

The ease of communication has significantly changed but in what way do you think this law should change because of it.

15 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

The reason this nation has been so successful has been the Constitution and it's absolute authority.

That's why things aren't easy to change in the Constitution but it is in itself designed to be able to change.

16 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Let me ask you this morning one of the pro abolition of the electoral college people?

You're going to have to be clearer here it doesn't appear to be an actual question.

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Exactly. There is no appeasement of the anti-gunners. They want it all, and if you grant them a fraction of it, it won't stop them. Better to not tolerate any regulation.

 

No.  Anti gunners' words carry more weight when no one takes any common sense steps to improve the situation.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

You're going to have to be clearer here it doesn't appear to be an actual question.

 

There's a group of people in this country who want to abolish the electoral college. Are you among them?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

There's a group of people in this country who want to abolish the electoral college. Are you among them?

I'm not a part of any specific group about that at all. I'd say I do lean towards a more popular vote. I do appreciate the idea that rural people don't want things to be essentially decided by people in the city but I also can't disagree with people in the cities not liking the idea of people in rural areas votes being worth more. There is also some middle ground where instead of each state giving all of their votes to one candidate with the most votes they can split it based on their states results. Doesn't quite get to a popular vote but has more parity than the electoral college as is.

[bdutton]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

There's no need for semi-automatic weapons for home defense.  And I'm in Queensbury.  We have the Warren County Sheriffs and the Staties covering us.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

.

Not a fan of shutting it down.

 

 

Joe, this is a website that encourages and glorifies hatred and violence.  Why on earth would you not want something like that shut down?  The only benefit to keeping it going is for the FBI to make a list of people to watch ... and prevent from purchasing/owning any weapons.

42 minutes ago, bdutton said:

 

 

Explain.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

There's a group of people in this country who want to abolish the electoral college. Are you among them?

No.  I just want the EC to do its job that it was created for: To protect against dangerous demagogues and to overide the people when they are stupid.  NOT rubber stamp a candidate into office because they represent an Electoral College member's party.

 

They do their job... We wouldn't be in this mess with 2nd, or not as bad. Demagogues fire the people up with acts of violence.

 

The status quo wasn't a rose garden, but it was working fairly corruption free and NOT firing up the populus on BOTH SIDES.

[RaoulDuke79]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

No.  I just want the EC to do its job that it was created for: To protect against dangerous demagogues and to overide the people when they are stupid.  NOT rubber stamp a candidate into office because they represent an Electoral College member's party.

 

They do their job... We wouldn't be in this mess with 2nd, or not as bad. Demagogues fire the people up with acts of violence.

 

The status quo wasn't a rose garden, but it was working fairly corruption free and NOT firing up the populus on BOTH SIDES.

Do think part of the problem with the left is comments like this? Thinking they are smarter and know what's best for everyone. Do as I say not as I do right?

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Do think part of the problem with the left is comments like this? Thinking they are smarter and know what's best for everyone. Do as I say not as I do right?

No.  The Electoral College is suppose to be smarter.  There is no denying Trump is an idiot. A demagogue.  Now, he's turned dangerous.  He's firing these douchebags up.

 

Let's start from a few weeks ago.

 

Let's call Dayton a wash, tie.  A lot of these wacky young men have conservative yet socialist leanings.

 

Gilroy and El Paso.  The Right Team.

 

It's 2-0-1 for the demagogues on the Right.

 

EC should have been smart enough to see this. Has nothing to do with right-left in the Electoral College. It's what brings stability to the country.  Trump brings nothing but upheaval. Again, EC was created because the Founders didn't trust the populists.  Go figure, that was all educated white men during the Age of Enlightenment back then.  Throw in everybody now and the Founders have to be rolling over in their grave if you piped a Trump rally speech into the ground! That fiery message is going out to everyone of the voters.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[Nextmanup]

The Electoral College is an outdated concept and totally unnecessary in a modern world.

It will also only help the Right rolling forward.

 

I'd love to see it abolished tomorrow.

 

 

[Just Jack]

[Paulus]

1 minute ago, Just Jack said:

Yeah, it is interesting how daft some Americans are regarding the truth about gun violence. I wonder how many people were murdered in The Windy City since the beginning of this month. 

[Just Jack]

7 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Yeah, it is interesting how daft some Americans are regarding the truth about gun violence. I wonder how many people were murdered in The Windy City since the beginning of this month. 

 

These stats are through almost the end of July...

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

 MS-13.  And Ay-rabs.  Them, too!  I see lots of them.  You might not see them.  Buh-leeve me ... they're there.  We've done a lot to address this.  More than anyone knows.  Buh-leeve me.  More to do.  But we've done a lot.  Trust me.  

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

9 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

These stats are through almost the end of July...

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html

Thanx... Nice map.

 

More guns in other jurisdictions is the problem... They are flooding in from some where close like Indiana that shares a border with Chicago.  I can't see how letting up on guns will help.

 

At least there was only one non-fatal in the neighborhood (Hegewisch, SE Side) where I work... Pretty calm and none within miles.  Even the projects are quiet by my work.

 

The real problem is west of city.

 

This all must be gang related. Guns must be pouring in from somewhere close.

 

Chicago is a rail hub... Why are they shipping arms through Chicago where they get stolen?

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-railroad-thefts-20170303-story.html

Edited August 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[Johnny Hammersticks]

A dude walking into a food festival and greasing 20 people is different than some drug dealers/gangsters killling eachother in Chicago.  Just sayin....

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

A dude walking into a food festival and greasing 20 people is different than some drug dealers/gangsters killling eachother in Chicago.  Just sayin....

I just looked at my neighborhood where I work.  One non-fatal... None within miles.  Pretty calm down there.

 

I have said... This spills onto The Mag Mile, Michigan Avenue..  things will change in this country fast... Just like with the gangsters & mob 90 years ago!

 

 

People don't follow laws either.  They run red lights... Think a gun law will stop them from driving 5 miles and crossing into Indiana to get guns and fireworks.

 

On Sunday, get booze, hard liquor at gas station in Illinois.

 

One state helps the other!

Edited August 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

There was a bigger border between the food festival and outside than Chicago and the Suburbs and State of Indiana.

 

Indiana is one of the most conservative, pro-guns and Chicago anti-gun.  Who do you think will win the arms race.

 

Create a buffer zone between country and city... Get rid of guns in city... And maybe more will slow to come in.

 

Firearms is just like immigration.  You can't stop it, just redirect the flow.

 

Don't need borders... Just need four states to enact same gun laws.  Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, & Michigan.  A 200 mile separation from the lax Red states keeps the flow down.

 

And stop transportation of arms through Chicago.  Like my link above... They aren't reporting the thefts.

Edited August 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is why it took off, a string of big crimes:

Railroad thefts and guns. Railcars are positioned in Hammond, Ind., to cross over the Calumet River into Chicago. 

 

"The 2015 heist of over 100 guns, preceded by one in 2014, and another last September from a Chicago rail yard highlight a tragic confluence.  When street-gang thieves slipped with ease into a Norfolk Southern rail yard on Chicago's South Side and ripped locks off one train, they likely expected to see merchandise like toys or tennis shoes. What they beheld instead was a gangster's jackpot: box after box of brand new guns.  The guns had been en route from New Hampshire weapon maker Sturm, Ruger & Co. to Spokane, Washington. Instead, the .45-caliber Ruger revolvers and other firearms spread quickly into surrounding high-crime neighborhoods. Along with two other major gun thefts within three years, the robbery helped fuel a wave of violence on Chicago's streets."

Edited August 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Joe, this is a website that encourages and glorifies hatred and violence.  Why on earth would you not want something like that shut down?  The only benefit to keeping it going is for the FBI to make a list of people to watch ... and prevent from purchasing/owning any weapons.

 

Explain.

 

You know what I'd rather see shut down than 8chan? CNN, the NYT and WaPo. Why? They routinely pawn off lies as truth and do so to a mass audience that's orders of magnitude larger than a site of 8chan's stature. And believe me, I've been of that opinion for 20 years.

 

Pretty soon places like 8chan will be the only refuge for anyone who dares to disagree with the left and their cultural commissars.

 

Lord knows mainstream social media doesn't allow it.

4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

A dude walking into a food festival and greasing 20 people is different than some drug dealers/gangsters killling eachother in Chicago.  Just sayin....

 

How's that? You realize that many Innocents die in those shootings yes?

Edited August 7, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[/dev/null]

6 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

A dude walking into a food festival and greasing 20 people is different than some drug dealers/gangsters killling eachother in Chicago.  Just sayin....

 

And what about the collateral damage?

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

A dude walking into a food festival and greasing 20 people is different than some drug dealers/gangsters killling eachother in Chicago.  Just sayin....

 

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

How's that? You realize that many Innocents die in those shootings yes?

 

6 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

And what about the collateral damage?

The end result is the same: murder. However, they are completely different crimes in regard to offender type and motivation.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The end result is the same: murder. However, they are completely different crimes in regard to offender type and motivation.

 

Could it be because in one instance the shooter is white, and the other not?

 

If so I couldn't agree more. One brand of mass murder doesn't feed the "crazy white supremacist" media motif. The other does (even when it doesn't).

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Could it be because in one instance the shooter is white, and the other not?

 

If so I couldn't agree more. One brand of mass murder doesn't feed the "crazy white supremacist" media motif. The other does (even when it doesn't).

 

I was speaking strictly from a perspective of psychology and criminal behavior. From a political perspective, they are each portrayed in whatever way is most useful for political advantage - regardless of reality. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by billsfan1959

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

Good to know.     I’ll stop hiding from “white nationalists” now 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

How many posted a manifesto prior??? 

 

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Good to know.     I’ll stop hiding from “white nationalists” now 

 

Still wearing blinders I see. 

 

the “white nationalists” is only part of the overall problem.   

 

This guy got Don's message loud and clear 

  

 

  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

   

 

 

 

[LB3]

Venezuela, yes Venezuela, is warning its citizens about the dangers of America.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said:

Venezuela, yes Venezuela, is warning its citizens about the dangers of America.

 

Just another Crack Pot leader of a shite hole 

[billsfan1959]

On 8/5/2019 at 10:49 PM, Gugny said:

 

Over 80% of mass shootings in the U.S. have been carried out by white U.S. citizens with legally obtained firearms.

You are right, Gugny, in that most mass shootings (in the truest definition) are comitted by white males with legally obtained firearms. It is also true that those murders comprise a fraction of the (on average) 13,000 - 15,000 murders in this country each year. It is also true that the majority of the overall murders in this country are comitted by non-white males and, in those murders where firearms are used, most are not obtained legally.

[Teddy KGB]

17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

How many posted a manifesto prior??? 

 

 

Still wearing blinders I see. 

 

the “white nationalists” is only part of the overall problem.   

 

This guy got Don's message loud and clear 

  

 

  

 

Ooooh a fake pipe bomber ????‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/check-out-this-chart-before-blaming-videogames-for-gun-violence-in-america-2019-08-06?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

 

 

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Ooooh a fake pipe bomber ????‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

 

I see you still miss the point. 

 

(I wasn't actually surprised.  I know these thinks are hard for you  to understand and accept)

Edited August 7, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan