Democrat Debates

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I led a project in Canada.  When we were discussing healthcare they had two points:  it was not free (more than US) and it was not better than the US.  Other than cost and quality it was not bad.

 

I worked on a project in Buffalo last year with a Canadian team member.  I asked him about what he thought of Canada's health care system.  He said it was good. He said taxes are high, but the price is right for heath care.  He didn't have long waits or anything to complain about.  

 

I worked on a project in London about 15 years ago and asked the people there too.  They said it was good and were happy with it.

 

I'm sure people's experiences are different. 

[row_33]

When I go for a procedure it seems random between a hospital and a private clinic.

 

we have our niches up here, the Shouldice Clinic is tops for hernias with many Americans treated 

 

i have not known anyone who went in a timely fashion that did not get good treatment

 

i know many who were whisked the next day to top specialists and it saved their life

 

the cost?  I may be wrong but my recollection is it’s half of my provincial taxes. On $100,000 I owe $33,000 to fed and provincial taxes. 2/3 federal in the mix 

 

it is a progressive tax and some years had special surtaxes for high incomes

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Come on what? He’s gay and Christian. He can lecture as much as any Christian politician who wants to lecture. 

No politician (regardless of persuasion) should be using religion as a policy or to guilt anyone into anything. Don’t lecture me on how to be good Christian!

[reddogblitz]

I LOVED Marianne Williamson's answer on reparations.  While all the others were talking a commission a study blah blah blah, she has a plan.  It was beautiful.  Every descendent of a slave gets the 40 acres and a mule plus interest. 

 

I'm not a fan of the whole reparations thing, but if you're gonna do it, this is a fine plan.

 

I also didn't know until last night she's from Texas.  All the better .

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

When I go for a procedure it seems random between a hospital and a private clinic.

 

we have our niches up here, the Shouldice Clinic is tops for hernias with many Americans treated 

 

i have not known anyone who went in a timely fashion that did not get good treatment

 

i know many who were whisked the next day to top specialists and it saved their life

 

the cost?  I may be wrong but my recollection is it’s half of my provincial taxes. On $100,000 I owe $33,000 to fed and provincial taxes. 2/3 federal in the mix 

 

it is a progressive tax and some years had special surtaxes for high incomes

 

thanks for sharing your experiences.  This is similar to what Canadians tell me when II ask them what they think about it.

[row_33]

Is MW onto the next round, then the party can destroy her?

 

[B-Man]

Marianne Williamson: "I've come here to save America and love my cat ...................................and I'm all outta cats"

 

 

 

 

 

.

[row_33]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

thanks for sharing your experiences.  This is similar to what Canadians tell me when II ask them what they think about it.

 

City services are rampant, rural areas are sparser. Sometimes communities are short many family docs for awhile

 

combining everyone’s waiting times for an overall average is grossly misleading 

——————————

For an illness I required an MRI, I asked if I could be booked in Cleveland or Buffalo, probably $800 at the time 

 

he got me in the next day in a Toronto hospital at 4 am

[DC Tom]

18 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

City services are rampant, rural areas are sparser. Sometimes communities are short many family docs for awhile

 

 

Not terribly different from the US, structurally.  It's what makes socialized medicine a poor fit for the US - too many specialized local and regional needs for a "one size fits all" approach.  

[jrober38]

45 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I worked on a project in Buffalo last year with a Canadian team member.  I asked him about what he thought of Canada's health care system.  He said it was good. He said taxes are high, but the price is right for heath care.  He didn't have long waits or anything to complain about.  

 

I worked on a project in London about 15 years ago and asked the people there too.  They said it was good and were happy with it.

 

I'm sure people's experiences are different. 

 

Canadian Health Care is quite good. In Ontario, if you're sick, you go to a Doctor, show your OHIP card, and they treat you. No paperwork, no deductibles, no worrying about anything. I've also been able to pick multiple family doctors of my choosing throughout my life. 

 

My wife and I just had our second child. Countless appointments, exams, ultrasounds, blood work, two days at the hospital when the baby was delivered, and when you're done, you just walk out of the hospital, again with zero paperwork, zero bills, zero deducible, etc. 

 

Cancer treatments are also quite good as our system pours huge amounts of money into Cancer Research. Pretty much anything where your life is imminent danger, you'll be treated with very high quality care very quickly. 

 

The difference, as I see it, between Canadian Health Care and American Health Care, is that Canadian Healthcare tries to prevent illness, because that's where the largest expenses are incurred on the system. Canadian Health Care tries to prevent you from getting sick in the first place, because ultimately they don't want you at the Hospital. 

 

On the flip side, American Health Care has minimal interest in that, because the Hospitals and Doctors ultimately profit greatly when someone walks in with a major illness. Pharma profits from you having to take meds for an extended period of time to treat some form of sickness. 

 

This difference of approach ultimately is why Canadians live longer lives than Americans. 

[dpberr]

I think Bernie Sanders is done after last night.  I don't think his campaign has any money, he's not going to spend his own money, and he doesn't look like he's interested in campaigning for *another* year.  I give it a month.  

 

The DNC isn't doing anything to trim the heard either - so the money will continue to be diluted.  

 

 

[jrober38]

9 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think Bernie Sanders is done after last night.  I don't think his campaign has any money, he's not going to spend his own money, and he doesn't look like he's interested in campaigning for *another* year.  I give it a month.  

 

The DNC isn't doing anything to trim the heard either - so the money will continue to be diluted.  

 

 

 

I disagree.

 

Bernie is never going to drop out. He's too idealistic and will want his ideas to form where the party goes, even if he's not the nominee. 

 

Also the field will shrink considerably by their next debate in September when it will become much harder to qualify for the debate. 

 

Based on current polling, only 8 candidates would currently qualify for the next debate. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by jrober38

[BeginnersMind]

12 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think Bernie Sanders is done after last night.  I don't think his campaign has any money, he's not going to spend his own money, and he doesn't look like he's interested in campaigning for *another* year.  I give it a month.  

 

The DNC isn't doing anything to trim the heard either - so the money will continue to be diluted.  

 

 

 

You’re off here. Sanders has the most cash of anyone. Almost 3x of Biden. And there’s no way he’s quitting. If he didn’t quit under the pressure of the DNC playing dirty tricks and the Clinton machine, he’s not quitting because Mayor Pete is polling at 5%. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[row_33]

29 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not terribly different from the US, structurally.  It's what makes socialized medicine a poor fit for the US - too many specialized local and regional needs for a "one size fits all" approach.  

 

There is no possible way to put it in now unless everyone is stripped of private coverage.

 

The 1950s would have been the last chance for the US to do this effectively.

—————

Canada has also chosen to severely limit MRIs, which to me is not a good thing.

[row_33]

———

 

the best to be done is provide a safety net for the poor for treatable emergency procedures

 

 

[jrober38]

15 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Canada has also chosen to severely limit MRIs, which to me is not a good thing.

 

I don't think they limit MRIs. The wait times have improved over the past 15 years. 

 

I think they just have a really rigid system where the people who are a priority get taken care of and the ones who aren't have to wait a really long time. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by jrober38

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's a ***** tool. 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think they limit MRIs. The wait times have improved over the past 15 years. 

 

I think they just have a really rigid system where the people who are a priority get taken care of and the ones who aren't have to wait a really long time. 

 

Okay, I will accept that. But there is no service  from Friday night to Monday morning still?

 

 

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Okay, I will accept that. But there is no service  from Friday night to Monday morning still?

 

 

 

Not 100% sure. One of my friends blew out his ACL last year though, and moved up the cue by being willing to do it on evenings or weekends, and I think he was called in for like 5 am on a Sunday. I think it's possible in some locations, just can't remember where he went. 

[row_33]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Not 100% sure. One of my friends blew out his ACL last year though, and moved up the cue by being willing to do it on evenings or weekends, and I think he was called in for like 5 am on a Sunday. I think it's possible in some locations, just can't remember where he went. 

 

My call in was in December 2008, a Thursday at 3-4 am, fuzzy on the precision....

 

Piazza tore his knee at an Expos game on a Friday. and the announcers were astounded he couldn’t be treated until Monday.

[IDBillzFan]

3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Come on what? He’s gay and Christian. He can lecture as much as any Christian politician who wants to lecture. 

 

I probably know better than to jump in here, but he didn't lecture. He judged.

 

if you're going to claim to be a follower of Christ-- gay, straight or whatever Qbaby is -- pretty much the first thing you should always remember: we already have a judge and it's not us.

 

If he is a practicing Christian (that is to say he ensures he spends time in the Word and fosters an on-going spiritual transition that is built on having a relationship with God for his glory), you recognize an opportunity last night to be the light (Matthew 5:14-16) to tens of people watching CNN. Trying to make the case that you're not a Christian if you're not in favor of a $15/hour minimum wage is, without question, the absolutely opposite of that.

 

But he knows that. Nothing gets the left to perk up and pay attention like another Bible verse taken out of context or incorrectly applied.

[BeginnersMind]

8 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

I probably know better than to jump in here, but he didn't lecture. He judged.

 

if you're going to claim to be a follower of Christ-- gay, straight or whatever Qbaby is -- pretty much the first thing you should always remember: we already have a judge and it's not us.

 

If he is a practicing Christian (that is to say he ensures he spends time in the Word and fosters an on-going spiritual transition that is built on having a relationship with God for his glory), you recognize an opportunity last night to be the light (Matthew 5:14-16) to tens of people watching CNN. Trying to make the case that you're not a Christian if you're not in favor of a $15/hour minimum wage is, without question, the absolutely opposite of that.

 

But he knows that. Nothing gets the left to perk up and pay attention like another Bible verse taken out of context or incorrectly applied.

 

I agree 100%. 

 

I was just asking what him being a “gay Christian” (his words not yours) had to do with it. We’ve been lectured to and judged by Christian politicians (imperfect Christians in your view, imperfect like any of us and I have no expectations of perfection) since forever. I wouldn’t think being straight or gay plays a role in whether he’s overstepped and can be judged (!) for using his faith for political expediency.  

Edited July 31, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[row_33]

The real Christian life is one of repentance, with piety being a high priority of obedience 

 

you enter it through family tradition, for which gratitude will be your motivation, or personal decision for which zealous oversight is always present 

 

the rest is a total joke

 

 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

I LOVED Marianne Williamson's answer on reparations.  While all the others were talking a commission a study blah blah blah, she has a plan.  It was beautiful.  Every descendent of a slave gets the 40 acres and a mule plus interest. 

 

I'm not a fan of the whole reparations thing, but if you're gonna do it, this is a fine plan.

 

I also didn't know until last night she's from Texas.  All the better .

 

thanks for sharing your experiences.  This is similar to what Canadians tell me when II ask them what they think about it.

Mules are going to get really expensive but if you want to corner the market on male donkeys you'll do very, very well.

[Koko78]

5 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

What happened?

 

Clearly the Barr tab came due.

[SoCal Deek]

51 minutes ago, row_33 said:

The real Christian life is one of repentance, with piety being a high priority of obedience 

 

you enter it through family tradition, for which gratitude will be your motivation, or personal decision for which zealous oversight is always present 

 

the rest is a total joke

 

 

Okay? I guess?

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

You’re off here. Sanders has the most cash of anyone. Almost 3x of Biden. And there’s no way he’s quitting. If he didn’t quit under the pressure of the DNC playing dirty tricks and the Clinton machine, he’s not quitting because Mayor Pete is polling at 5%. 

 

I don't think he has more than Biden.  The Sanders fundraising is consistent or stagnating, depending on how you look at it. 

 

He's raising it but I think he's burning through it equally fast.  The transfer of money from his senate account already suggests to me he has a cash flow problem.  It's early to be doing that.  

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I disagree.

 

Bernie is never going to drop out. He's too idealistic and will want his ideas to form where the party goes, even if he's not the nominee. 

 

Also the field will shrink considerably by their next debate in September when it will become much harder to qualify for the debate. 

 

Based on current polling, only 8 candidates would currently qualify for the next debate. 

 

I think he likes being rich more than seeing the party adopt his ideals.  I know a lot of people believe in Bernie Sanders but he's a millionaire and has published a book every year since he ran in 2016.  

Edited July 31, 2019 by dpberr

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

I agree 100%. 

 

I was just asking what him being a “gay Christian” (his words not yours) had to do with it. We’ve been lectured to and judged by Christian politicians (imperfect Christians in your view, imperfect like any of us and I have no expectations of perfection) since forever. I wouldn’t think being straight or gay plays a role in whether he’s overstepped and can be judged (!) for using his faith for political expediency.  

 

Whether people like it or not, God is pretty clear that he did not like men doinking men, and that marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

The conversation I've had often with people in Bible study groups is this: Are you a sinner if you are gay, or if you act on being gay? Are you a pedophile if you like sex with little kids, or only if you act on that? Lines get blurred because, for example, when discussing adultery, the Bible implies (or we infer) that just thinking about committing adultery is a sin.

 

Here's what I know: Jesus loves gays. He loves everyone. And we're called to do the same, first and foremost.

 

Here's what I also know; many Christians try to interpret God's Word to fit their own will. Some have determined that God got it wrong about gay marriage. (See Jen Hatmaker). If you're going to choose your will over God's, you may as well start having gay sex with underage kids because it doesn't square with God's Word.

 

If you are a Christian, then no matter what evangelicals try to tell you, it's a good idea to remember that God doesn't say "Oops!"

 

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

The real Christian life is one of repentance, with piety being a high priority of obedience 

 

you enter it through family tradition, for which gratitude will be your motivation, or personal decision for which zealous oversight is always present 

 

the rest is a total joke

 

Can you give me an example of how someone becomes a Christian through family tradition?

Edited July 31, 2019 by IDBillzFan

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

NBC’s McCaskill Blasts Warren and Sanders for Extreme Health Care Plans

How'd she do in her Senate run last year?  How'd Sherrod Brown do as they were both from states that went Trump's way in 2016?  A progressive economic populism message isn't necessarily a recipe for defeat in 2020 for somebody like Bernie or Warren like everybody assumes it would be.  As for health care, they can run on single payer but people recognize they won't get it through Congress and they'll likely have to make a compromise with something like a public option.  I mean Trump in 2015 promised to deport all illegals, bring back waterboarding or worse, and bring back a majority of our troops from the Middle East but few believed him.  I'm just not convinced that if either one is nominated it would be a cakewalk for Trump like everyone assumes it would be. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Doc Brown

[row_33]

43 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Whether people like it or not, God is pretty clear that he did not like men doinking men, and that marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

The conversation I've had often with people in Bible study groups is this: Are you a sinner if you are gay, or if you act on being gay? Are you a pedophile if you like sex with little kids, or only if you act on that? Lines get blurred because, for example, when discussing adultery, the Bible implies (or we infer) that just thinking about committing adultery is a sin.

 

Here's what I know: Jesus loves gays. He loves everyone. And we're called to do the same, first and foremost.

 

Here's what I also know; many Christians try to interpret God's Word to fit their own will. Some have determined that God got it wrong about gay marriage. (See Jen Hatmaker). If you're going to choose your will over God's, you may as well start having gay sex with underage kids because it doesn't square with God's Word.

 

If you are a Christian, then no matter what evangelicals try to tell you, it's a good idea to remember that God doesn't say "Oops!"

 

 

Can you give me an example of how someone becomes a Christian through family tradition?

 

Reformed/Presbyterian and RC and Lutherans teach that the children of believers are part of a covenant of continuity. A sort of hedge over the child until it is ready down the road to embrace the faith 

 

Lutherans and RC teach infant baptism as regenerating, Ref/Presby doesn’t 

 

US Evangelicals almost always require a personal decision and commitment, starting around the age of 12, with full immersion for Baptism.

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by row_33

[BeginnersMind]

50 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

I don't think he has more than Biden.  The Sanders fundraising is consistent or stagnating, depending on how you look at it. 

 

50 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

He's raising it but I think he's burning through it equally fast.  The transfer of money from his senate account already suggests to me he has a cash flow problem.  It's early to be doing that.  

 

Its publicly disclosed info. He has almost 30M in the bank. Biden has 11. 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

55 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

I don't think he has more than Biden.  The Sanders fundraising is consistent or stagnating, depending on how you look at it. 

 

He's raising it but I think he's burning through it equally fast.  The transfer of money from his senate account already suggests to me he has a cash flow problem.  It's early to be doing that.  

 

I think he likes being rich more than seeing the party adopt his ideals.  I know a lot of people believe in Bernie Sanders but he's a millionaire and has published a book every year since he ran in 2016.  

Yes.  His carefully crafted 35 year plus plan of working his way up the political latter by pretending to fight for the poor and middle class so he can sell books to make him a millionaire is finally paying off.

[Buffalo_Gal]

People didn't like what they saw after the first one and tuned out for the second one?

Democratic debate on CNN sees steep ratings drop
 

The first night of CNN’s Democratic debate in Detroit drew 8.7 million television viewers, a steep drop from last month’s event hosted by NBC, MSNBC and Telemundo.
 

The June event brought in 15.3 million viewers across the three networks on Night One, with 18.1 million tuning in for the second night, a Democratic primary record.

</snip>

[reddogblitz]

58 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think he likes being rich more than seeing the party adopt his ideals.  I know a lot of people believe in Bernie Sanders but he's a millionaire and has published a book every year since he ran in 2016.  

 

I like Bernie, but my theory is Bernie is he's addicted to the big crowds and big rallies and adulation and everyone kissing his you know what all day every day. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yes.  His carefully crafted 35 year plus plan of working his way up the political latter by pretending to fight for the poor and middle class so he can sell books to make him a millionaire is finally paying off.

...how did this so quickly disappear?.......

 

Federal investigators had been looking into the finances behind a real estate deal for the now defunct Burlington College, where Jane Sanders served as president from 2004 to 2011.

 

In 2010, she had worked out a $10 million deal for the college to buy 32 acres of waterfront land in Burlington on Lake Champlain and a 77,000-square-foot former orphanage and administrative offices of Vermont’s Roman Catholic Church, which needed the money to settle a series of priest sex abuse cases.

 

Jane Sanders, a longtime political adviser to her husband, promised at the time that the deal would be paid for with increases in enrollment and about $2.7 million in donations. She left the school a year later. The enrollment increase and the promised donations didn’t happen and by 2014, the college had about $11 million debt. It sold much of the waterfront land and closed in 2016, with officials citing debt from the land deal as a major reason.

[Doc Brown]

32 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...how did this so quickly disappear?.......

 

Federal investigators had been looking into the finances behind a real estate deal for the now defunct Burlington College, where Jane Sanders served as president from 2004 to 2011.

 

In 2010, she had worked out a $10 million deal for the college to buy 32 acres of waterfront land in Burlington on Lake Champlain and a 77,000-square-foot former orphanage and administrative offices of Vermont’s Roman Catholic Church, which needed the money to settle a series of priest sex abuse cases.

 

Jane Sanders, a longtime political adviser to her husband, promised at the time that the deal would be paid for with increases in enrollment and about $2.7 million in donations. She left the school a year later. The enrollment increase and the promised donations didn’t happen and by 2014, the college had about $11 million debt. It sold much of the waterfront land and closed in 2016, with officials citing debt from the land deal as a major reason.

Yeah.  I heard about that and the investigation is apparently over and no charges were brought.  From what I've read about it she just really sucked at her job.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah.  I heard about that and the investigation is apparently over and no charges were brought.  From what I've read about it she just really sucked at her job.

 

...runs in the family I presume?....just askin'.......

[Doc Brown]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

People didn't like what they saw after the first one and tuned out for the second one?

Democratic debate on CNN sees steep ratings drop
 

The first night of CNN’s Democratic debate in Detroit drew 8.7 million television viewers, a steep drop from last month’s event hosted by NBC, MSNBC and Telemundo.
 

The June event brought in 15.3 million viewers across the three networks on Night One, with 18.1 million tuning in for the second night, a Democratic primary record.

</snip>

That and it wasn't on a major broadcast network.  The 2012 Republican primary debates averaged between 4 and 5 million without the Trump bump.

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...runs in the family I presume?....just askin'.......

Probably.  LOL.  Bernie was pretty much a bum before he ran for mayor.  He's contributed zilch to society.

[SoCal Deek]

Another thing I've noticed, and that nobody has commented on, is how NONE of these candidates is talking at all about working across the aisle with Republicans.  Translation: We have to have both congressional houses and the White House to get anything done anymore.

What's happened here?  This used to be a standard political line.  Can these folks pivot in the general election, after calling everyone on the other side immoral?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Another thing I've noticed, and that nobody has commented on, is how NONE of these candidates is talking at all about working across the aisle with Republicans.  Translation: We have to have both congressional houses and the White House to get anything done anymore.

What's happened here?  This used to be a standard political line.  Can these folks pivot in the general election, after calling everyone on the other side immoral?

 

Neither party has any interest in working across the aisle.