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tomur67

Checking on the college stats of our WR's

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Obviously there are many factors that go into deciding which WR's make up the final roster, but I thought it might be interesting to look back at their college careers and the success they each had.  Having the most receptions was Zay Jones 399, Andre Roberts 285, Cole Beasley 255. Cam Phillips 223,  John Brown 185,  and Victor Bolden 170.  Having the  most Yardage Receiving,  Jones 4279, Roberts 3743, Brown 3380,  Beasley 2959, Phillips 2856, and  Sills 2097.  Most TDs scored  Roberts 37,  Sills 35,  Brown 34,  Jones 23 , Phillips 16, and Beasley 14. Of course, you have to consider,  Duke Williams and Nick Easley had only 2 years of stats,  Sills, McKenzie, and McCloud had 3 years of stats.  Some  had better QBs than others and some teams passed more than others, but there are a few things that stand out 1) Zay Jones caught a lot of, lot of passes for East Carolina, without a lot of drops. 2) Sills had great numbers for just 3 years and 3) Andre Roberts can be more than just a kick returner.  He was  a damn  good WR at The Citadel.

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College stats are meaningless once you get to the NFL.

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Posted (edited)

Umm, do you have any predictions based upon this? 

 

I agree, Zay can catch, and I have no idea what went on early. It will be a shame if he never realizes his ability. I think he steps up again this year....progress. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Bangarang said:

College stats are meaningless once you get to the NFL.

 

True, unless it’s to prove a single ability, like Zay CAN catch the ball. 

 

.

Edited by Augie
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I don't see Zay taking another step.  He's not going to get near the playing time and opportunities.  He has to contend now with 2 NFL experienced receivers, an emerging Foster and the others trying to make the team. 

 

He had his chance to take control of a starting WR position and did not seize the opportunity.   He may still but it's going to be much harder.  If he does, we'll surely know he's legit then. 

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6 minutes ago, White Linen said:

I don't see Zay taking another step.  He's not going to get near the playing time and opportunities.  He has to contend now with 2 NFL experienced receivers, an emerging Foster and the others trying to make the team. 

 

He had his chance to take control of a starting WR position and did not seize the opportunity.   He may still but it's going to be much harder.  If he does, we'll surely know he's legit then. 

There was some squirrelly unknown here. No idea how it turns out, but obviously something was up. 

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Colt Brennan threw for like 12thousand yards at Hawaii 

 

should we sign him away from Costco?

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1 minute ago, Augie said:

There was some squirrelly unknown here. No idea how it turns out, but obviously something was up. 

 

I think it's pretty simple.  The confidence he had in college didn't come over to the NFL.  

 

There's something just wrong with how he catches the ball.  Not every time but a lot.  He double clutches, has to catch the ball twice to secure it and sometimes has to trap the ball in his body and go down.  He doesn't ***** the ball out of the air consistantly and then head up field.  There's a delay - that to me looks like lack of confidence.  

 

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Good news is our FO isn't waiting around for any player.  Competition will either make a player better or they'll get passed by. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I think it's pretty simple.  The confidence he had in college didn't come over to the NFL.  

 

 There's something just wrong with how he catches the ball.  Not every time but a lot.  He double clutches, has to catch the ball twice to secure it and sometimes has to trap the ball in his body and go down.  He doesn't ***** the ball out of the air consistantly and then head up field.  There's a delay - that to me looks like lack of confidence.  

 

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Good news is our FO isn't waiting around for any player.  Competition will either make a player better or they'll get passed by. 

 

 

 

Which goes directly to my point. There was nothing wrong with how he caught a 4 year career worth of balls in one season as a senior.  A great golfer has ups and downs too, but it doesn’t mean Jordan Spieth won’t be on top again. If you have the skills (and Zay is NOT special/elite there) you can still come back when you regain your confidence. He was a head case for some reason. I hope he gets past it, regardless of football.   

 

 

.

 

 

 

Edited by Augie
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2 hours ago, tomur67 said:

Obviously there are many factors that go into deciding which WR's make up the final roster, but I thought it might be interesting to look back at their college careers and the success they each had.  Having the most receptions was Zay Jones 399, Andre Roberts 285, Cole Beasley 255. Cam Phillips 223,  John Brown 185,  and Victor Bolden 170.  Having the  most Yardage Receiving,  Jones 4279, Roberts 3743, Brown 3380,  Beasley 2959, Phillips 2856, and  Sills 2097.  Most TDs scored  Roberts 37,  Sills 35,  Brown 34,  Jones 23 , Phillips 16, and Beasley 14. Of course, you have to consider,  Duke Williams and Nick Easley had only 2 years of stats,  Sills, McKenzie, and McCloud had 3 years of stats.  Some  had better QBs than others and some teams passed more than others, but there are a few things that stand out 1) Zay Jones caught a lot of, lot of passes for East Carolina, without a lot of drops. 2) Sills had great numbers for just 3 years and 3) Andre Roberts can be more than just a kick returner.  He was  a damn  good WR at The Citadel.

It's an interesting exercise, albeit, not particularly enlightening.

There are some on these boards who are willing to compare, for example, the statistic-- percentage of receptions per target for Zay Jones NFL career, with David Sills college percentage of receptions per target, and actually draw some conclusion as to Jones' value compared to Sills, with no other context

But, it is still interesting.

Zay Jones was sold as the "most NFL ready WR" of his draft, even if he wasn't the most dynamic, or worthy of the highest ceiling. That evaluation proved not to be the case in his rookie year. But, it has turned out to be somewhat applicable in his second year, and the type of WR he seems to be-- a solid #2 with a lot of versatility.

As another poster (rather flippantly) pointed out: college stats are fairly meaningless. You only need to look at Sammy Watkins' college highlight reel to realize that coverage, blocking, and defenses in general, in college, do not have a lot of relevance to the professional level.

That being said, you are right: it is interesting to look back at their college careers...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Colt Brennan threw for like 12thousand yards at Hawaii 

 

should we sign him away from Costco?

I always wanted Colt Brennan. No idea why the kid couldn’t catch on in the NFL. However, admittedly I didnt then and don’t now watch a lot to college ball. But I’ll say this, I made it a point to watch some Hawaii games and that kid was fun to watch. 

Edited by mrags

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19 minutes ago, mrags said:

I always wanted Colt Brennan. No idea why the kid couldn’t catch on in the NFL. However, admittedly I didnt then and don’t now watch a lot to college ball. But I’ll say this, I made it a point to watch some Hawaii games and that kid was fun to watch. 

He definitely was fun to watch.

 

so was kellen Moore at Boise st... they both had the same problem

 

not enough velocity for the NFL level. They had the Brain and the accuracy but not the arm strength of an NFL QB and not by a good amount 

 

Amazing college QBs tho 

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6 hours ago, White Linen said:

I don't see Zay taking another step.  He's not going to get near the playing time and opportunities.  He has to contend now with 2 NFL experienced receivers, an emerging Foster and the others trying to make the team. 

 

He had his chance to take control of a starting WR position and did not seize the opportunity.   He may still but it's going to be much harder.  If he does, we'll surely know he's legit then. 

Get glasses😎

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I think Zay is the type of WR that will take 3yrs to hit his stride. This is his make or break year. I am really hoping he can put it all together and become a legit #2 WR I think either Brown or Foster will play in the #1 spot to take the top off the defense. And of course Cole will be a great slot WR, Williams, Sills, and Robert's I think can be decent role players. The Bill's are in far better shape WR wise than at any time the past few seasons. Go Bills.

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https://www.thefantasyfootballers.com/articles/reception-perception-zay-jones-years-confusing-wr-prospect/

 

This article is an excellent, in depth predraft analysis of Zay.  Here is the concluding paragraph:

 

The safest bet appears to be that Jones settles into a high-volume but low-ceiling slot and flanker hybrid role when he hits the next level. Yes, he can win on those short to intermediate routes while sifting through zone coverage, and there is certainly value in a player like that, but Reception Perception gave us plenty of reason to question what is available beyond that.

 

The biggest concern that I see now is that he does extremely well as a slot receiver on short and intermediate routes (although with a poor YAC), but not much else.  That seems to be exactly the opposite of what Allen is good at so I wonder what place he has here long term.  Sadly, he seems to be an excellent fit in NE and I could see him going there and being very successful. 

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Nothing prepares you for the NFL like playing WR at the Citadel.

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30 minutes ago, eball said:

Nothing prepares you for the NFL like playing WR at the Citadel.

I think he can catch balls thrown by a QB that played at Wyoming.

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8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He definitely was fun to watch.

 

so was kellen Moore at Boise st... they both had the same problem

 

not enough velocity for the NFL level. They had the Brain and the accuracy but not the arm strength of an NFL QB and not by a good amount 

 

Amazing college QBs tho 

Yeah i loved watching Kellen Moore's games at The Blue. They'd play later at night so it'd be the best game on & man were those games exciting. The craziest schemes & plays. When they were rolling it was fun to watch.

But the NFL? Dude couldnt even hack it as a backup. College production isn't always an indicator of future NFL success. Trying to make a correlation between the 2 is just having too much time on your hands haha.

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13 hours ago, tomur67 said:

Obviously there are many factors that go into deciding which WR's make up the final roster, but I thought it might be interesting to look back at their college careers and the success they each had.  Having the most receptions was Zay Jones 399, Andre Roberts 285, Cole Beasley 255. Cam Phillips 223,  John Brown 185,  and Victor Bolden 170.  Having the  most Yardage Receiving,  Jones 4279, Roberts 3743, Brown 3380,  Beasley 2959, Phillips 2856, and  Sills 2097.  Most TDs scored  Roberts 37,  Sills 35,  Brown 34,  Jones 23 , Phillips 16, and Beasley 14. Of course, you have to consider,  Duke Williams and Nick Easley had only 2 years of stats,  Sills, McKenzie, and McCloud had 3 years of stats.  Some  had better QBs than others and some teams passed more than others, but there are a few things that stand out 1) Zay Jones caught a lot of, lot of passes for East Carolina, without a lot of drops. 2) Sills had great numbers for just 3 years and 3) Andre Roberts can be more than just a kick returner.  He was  a damn  good WR at The Citadel.

Do you have any analytics to support that college production delivers NFL production?  Please post links.

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13 hours ago, White Linen said:

I don't see Zay taking another step.  He's not going to get near the playing time and opportunities.  He has to contend now with 2 NFL experienced receivers, an emerging Foster and the others trying to make the team. 

 

He had his chance to take control of a starting WR position and did not seize the opportunity.   He may still but it's going to be much harder.  If he does, we'll surely know he's legit then. 

Sometimes competition brings the best in people.  May competition in TC make our players better

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Your NCAA top 10 all time receiving yards...

 

1 Corey Davis* 5278 2013 2016 Western Michigan
2 Trevor Insley 5005 1996 1999 Nevada
3 Ryan Broyles* 4586 2008 2011 Oklahoma
4 Justin Hardy* 4541 2011 2014 East Carolina
5 Marcus Harris 4518 1993 1996 Wyoming
6 Patrick Edwards* 4507 2008 2011 Houston
7 James Washington* 4472 2014 2017 Oklahoma State
8 Rashaun Woods* 4414 2000 2003 Oklahoma State
9 Ryan Yarborough* 4374 1990 1993 Wyoming
10 Troy Edwards 4352 1996 1998 Louisiana Tech

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13 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I think it's pretty simple.  The confidence he had in college didn't come over to the NFL.  

 

There's something just wrong with how he catches the ball.  Not every time but a lot.  He double clutches, has to catch the ball twice to secure it and sometimes has to trap the ball in his body and go down.  He doesn't ***** the ball out of the air consistantly and then head up field.  There's a delay - that to me looks like lack of confidence.  

 

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Good news is our FO isn't waiting around for any player.  Competition will either make a player better or they'll get passed by. 

 

 

 

Yeah this is a great post.  Thats my most frustrating part for me with Zay, he makes the catches too hard for some reason.  ShadyBilsFan was drooling over the over the shoulder tough catch he made in practice against air...yet the truth was, he grossly misplayed the ball and instead of being a routine simple catch he had to make a difficult one that would have a very low percentage in tight coverage and could have even resulted in a drop, tipped ball, or even a turnover.  

 

He has to stop that.  I do really love that Allen was unhappy with how Zay was running routes (out of Zays own mouth), pulled him aside and the Zay successfully adjusted and caught a TD strike doing it the way Allen wanted later in the same practice.  Thats a positive sign on both Zay and Allen.  Great that Allen is seeing that stuff already, and also great the Zay is able to take that coaching from Allen and execute it.  

 

No secret about I was critical about his first 2 years, but sincerely would love to see Zay prove my skepticism wrong and excel.  Im still skeptical he can hold off one of Brown or Foster.  Cole is locked in at slot we know, so Zay will have to keep either Brown or Foster from starting.  I just have a very hard time seeing him beat out Foster personally, and I also doubt they brought in Brown to be a reserve.  

 

That all being said, Zay had a nice start to OTA's.  But that was to be expected.  Zay and Foster were 100% going to have an edge in OTA's knowing the offense and playbook and were always going to be the two guys to get the most reps.  Interesting was that Ray Ray also had a strong OTA, so be interesting to see if he inserts himself into the thick of competition along with Foster, Brown, Zay, Cole, Duke, Sills, and Roberts.  

 

Cant wait for this battle to really get going.  One thing I have total confidence in...McD and Beane will treat this a true open competition and the best guys will make this team.  

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2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah this is a great post.  Thats my most frustrating part for me with Zay, he makes the catches too hard for some reason.  ShadyBilsFan was drooling over the over the shoulder tough catch he made in practice against air...yet the truth was, he grossly misplayed the ball and instead of being a routine simple catch he had to make a difficult one that would have a very low percentage in tight coverage and could have even resulted in a drop, tipped ball, or even a turnover.  

 

He has to stop that.  I do really love that Allen was unhappy with how Zay was running routes (out of Zays own mouth), pulled him aside and the Zay successfully adjusted and caught a TD strike doing it the way Allen wanted later in the same practice.  Thats a positive sign on both Zay and Allen.  Great that Allen is seeing that stuff already, and also great the Zay is able to take that coaching from Allen and execute it.  

 

No secret about I was critical about his first 2 years, but sincerely would love to see Zay prove my skepticism wrong and excel.  Im still skeptical he can hold off one of Brown or Foster.  Cole is locked in at slot we know, so Zay will have to keep either Brown or Foster from starting.  I just have a very hard time seeing him beat out Foster personally, and I also doubt they brought in Brown to be a reserve.  

 

That all being said, Zay had a nice start to OTA's.  But that was to be expected.  Zay and Foster were 100% going to have an edge in OTA's knowing the offense and playbook and were always going to be the two guys to get the most reps.  Interesting was that Ray Ray also had a strong OTA, so be interesting to see if he inserts himself into the thick of competition along with Foster, Brown, Zay, Cole, Duke, Sills, and Roberts.  

 

Cant wait for this battle to really get going.  One thing I have total confidence in...McD and Beane will treat this a true open competition and the best guys will make this team.  

A true open competition? Like the QB competition that landed Nate as the starter? 

 

Can’t wait.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, CommonCents said:

A true open competition? Like the QB competition that landed Nate as the starter? 

 

Can’t wait.

 

Wow, some of you need to come to terms the reality of what really happened in the QB competition last year.  

  1. McD and Beane both publicly stated that the plan going into week 3 of preseason was to start Allen week 1.  When the OL damn near got him killed and they saw he wasn't ready yet to face that kind of pressure from a bad OL, they decided to hold him off from starting week 1.  
  2. Nate had no trade value, and AJM did.  So instead of cutting one for nothing...they traded AJM for a miraculous 5th round pick..which I will add was used to get Cody Ford.  
  3. Nate was only starting to give Allen more time to prepare to start.  Nate was NEVER at any point going to start very long for this team, he was a guy they hoped who could just hold it down long enough to get Allen better prepared to play.  
  4. Allen split reps and started as the 3rd string QB entering camp.  

Time for everyone to let Nate starting week 1 go.  Nate starting gets pretty over exaggerated around here.  The only thing that was a mistake was not signing DA right when they traded AJM, and they even said they wish they had done that too.  Trying to keep Allen on the bench a little longer was smart after seeing the OL nearing get him killed in that third preseason game where he was also hobbled from the hits.  

Edited by Alphadawg7
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It is interesting that Robert Foster.....one of the LEAST productive college wise might be the glimmering hope for a number 1 wide receiver.....

 

Here is a guy who had injuries that basically derailed what should have been a college career that should have got him drafted in the first round......

 

Speed

Size

He has all of it

 

Just something for context........

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15 hours ago, White Linen said:

He's frustrated me as much as any player the last decade.  

 

Maybe the most frustrating Bill since... Biletnikof winner Josh Reed?  Totally agree with your take.  Zay seems mentally weak to me.  He attacks hotel lobbies but not the football.  Something is wrong with the guy and I look forward to the day he isn't being counted on to produce.  He probably is, too.  He seems like the type who will become far more successful once he isn't being featured.

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