BeginnersMind Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: And yet an open border is what we have to go with the dialogue you desire. That dialogue is about 40 years old. Here’s how America works. It takes some national agreement to get things done. That’s the beauty and frustration of a two party system, as well as checks and balances. When one oarty has had its moment of power and shoves a bad bill through (ACA), it cant survive unless the national will continues to support the single party shoving it through. Few people, including Trump, see this as an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 perspective 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: You want me to answer if I have a wall with doors? And if I answer my paradigm might crumble? This is the logic of your argument? If we extend the stupid house comparison, let me ask you some other questions. Do you have windows that can be broken with trivial work and allow an intruder in? Do you have windows, ie holes, all over your house through which anyone can enter with almost no effort? Can any human with a simple prybar open any door in your home? The analogy is silly. Our border can be breached, as can our home. That’s not an argument for a wall. It’s an argument for sensible steps, within a budget, to minimize negative impact. Chanting “build the wall” is not how we govern and it’s not problem solving. It’s just mob thinking. Actually, it is a great analogy! The windows make it a perfect analogy... there are going to be smaller, tighter spaces where people have to work harder to get in, can be monitored better - just like on windows - bars, hurricane glass, an alarm system, or a gun for intruders would make entry more difficult, and the shattering glass would make it obvious someone tried or was entering... alerting you to the entry - which makes for better policing. And the question you skipped is... if someone entered your home by breaking in, would you welcome them, or call the police? If you would call the police, why is it a-ok to allow someone into this country illegally? Why shouldn't they be removed from the country as an intruder would be removed from your home? "Building the wall" is an excellent idea. It is a permenant fixture. That means the next Democratic President will have a difficult time removing it (imagine the optics of removing a border wall, and how could it possibly be explained? We want more drugs, sex slaves, and illegal voters!? Yeah, that would go over well.) The next Congress will pay with their seats if they vote to remove it. Once in place, it stays. And that is why people against a barrier wall are "open border people" whether or not you want to admit to it. Walls work as a deterrent. You wouldn't have one around your home if they did not work. Good fences make for good neighbors. Large walls and barriers make for great allies. ? BTW, the "mob thinking"? Go back and look through recent history. The money has been voted for in the past. (The political will to carry out the plan has been lacking.) Past Presidents have said for years (since Carter) we have an open border crisis. If 40+ years of "we have an issue" is mob-think, well you and I have very different ideas of what the term "mob think" means. 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 18 hours ago, grinreaper said: For those of you hating on the wall because all the interdictions are happening at ports of entry, ponder this: Walls will force a lot, most, nearly all people, drugs and sex slaves to try to gain entrance to our country through our ports of entry where we have a much higher chance of discovering them. Can anyone argue (successfully) against this? I was discussing the wall with a left leaning friend of mine the other day, and to defend her position that it’s not needed she brought up how most of the drugs come in at ports of entry. When I asked her how she knew this, she just said it was a pretty well known fact. I said that since we only have data on the drugs we catch, we have no idea how many drugs are coming in over open border and another plausible explanation for that data is that drugs are easier to intercept at ports of entry than open border with sparse patrol and no barrier, and the purpose of the wall is to funnel more of traffic to the ports of entry, where it’s easier to catch. She just stood there slack jawed for a moment and then changed the subject. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: Here’s how America works. It takes some national agreement to get things done. That’s the beauty and frustration of a two party system, as well as checks and balances. When one oarty has had its moment of power and shoves a bad bill through (ACA), it cant survive unless the national will continues to support the single party shoving it through. Few people, including Trump, see this as an emergency. Thanks for the civics lesson commie. 3.4% of our population did not follow the rules our government set forth. What percentage is too much? What other rules can be ignored without consequence? Slowly marching toward communism is appealing to you. I get it. At least come clean about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-by-the-president-28/ Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Chandemonium said: I was discussing the wall with a left leaning friend of mine the other day, and to defend her position that it’s not needed she brought up how most of the drugs come in at ports of entry. When I asked her how she knew this, she just said it was a pretty well known fact. I said that since we only have data on the drugs we catch, we have no idea how many drugs are coming in over open border and another plausible explanation for that data is that drugs are easier to intercept at ports of entry than open border with sparse patrol and no barrier, and the purpose of the wall is to funnel more of traffic to the ports of entry, where it’s easier to catch. She just stood there slack jawed for a moment and then changed the subject. That's the line of attack they're going to use - and all it takes is a second to think about the statement logically (as you asked your friend to employ) for it all to crumble. Here the host knows she's bullshitting but as she says, "I'm reading government statistics"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. You just quoted yourself to remind everyone to read a post they already ignored? Did you not get hugged enough as a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Stalker says what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. my biggest takeaway from it is that he lays out where he is going to take congressional findings under advisement and considers them non-binding. it's almost like he is begging them to pass a law or two or three. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Actually, it is a great analogy! The windows make it a perfect analogy... there are going to be smaller, tighter spaces where people have to work harder to get in, can be monitored better - just like on windows - bars, hurricane glass, an alarm system, or a gun for intruders would make entry more difficult, and the shattering glass would make it obvious someone tried or was entering... alerting you to the entry - which makes for better policing. And the question you skipped is... if someone entered your home by breaking in, would you welcome them, or call the police? If you would call the police, why is it a-ok to allow someone into this country illegally? Why shouldn't they be removed from the country as an intruder would be removed from your home? "Building the wall" is an excellent idea. It is a permenant fixture. That means the next Democratic President will have a difficult time removing it (imagine the optics of removing a border wall, and how could it possibly be explained? We want more drugs, sex slaves, and illegal voters!? Yeah, that would go over well.) The next Congress will pay with their seats if they vote to remove it. Once in place, it stays. And that is why people against a barrier wall are "open border people" whether or not you want to admit to it. Walls work as a deterrent. You wouldn't have one around your home if they did not work. Good fences make for good neighbors. Large walls and barriers make for great allies. ? BTW, the "mob thinking"? Go back and look through recent history. The money has been voted for in the past. (The political will to carry out the plan has been lacking.) Past Presidents have said for years (since Carter) we have an open border crisis. If 40+ years of "we have an issue" is mob-think, well you and I have very different ideas of what the term "mob think" means. The we-all-need-to-get-along-so-let-us-start-today logic he seems to be espousing is perfect for a 9th grade term paper. The sad history of addressing an issue that has gotten to the point where the argument in support of quasi-open borders is that "only several hundred thousand" people are circumventing our border crossings every year to add to the 12-20 million souls who have already done so. The Canadian govt got squeamish at about 50,000 people violating their laws. So the argument goes that while we used to impact our infrastructure each year by a city the size of San Francisco, or a Dallas, we're doing really well---like really really really well by only adding a Raleigh, Miami or Minneapolis each year. On the bright side I'm heading out of town in a few days, and I'm going to park whenever the heck I like--probably right near along the access road for departing flights, I plan on refusing to show my papers when requested and have no intention of waiting in lines for "screening". The reality is a very small percentage of people are looking to cause any trouble, so why all the fuss with walls and whatnot. I'll probably just tell anyone that pushes back "We all just need to work together here!". Walls are for suckers. Edited February 17, 2019 by leh-nerd skin-erd 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: On the bright side I'm heading out of town in a few days, and I'm going to park whenever the heck I like--probably right near along the access road for departing flights, I plan on refusing to show my papers when requested and have no intention of waiting in lines for "screening". The reality is a very small percentage of people are looking to cause any trouble, so why all the fuss with walls and whatnot. I'll probably just tell anyone that pushes back "We all just need to work together here!". So, we need to start a GoFund Me for your bail money? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, KRC said: So, we need to start a GoFund Me for your bail money? I'm a 1%er liberal. Save your money and send it to the Pelosi family for skimming, I mean safekeeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Hang in there Merica! Red Cross is doing all it can! #MericaStrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'm a 1%er liberal. Save your money and send it to the Pelosi family for skimming, I mean safekeeping. Normally, I donate it to the Clinton Foundation. You know, for charitable works like Chelsea's wedding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Foxx said: my biggest takeaway from it is that he lays out where he is going to take congressional findings under advisement and considers them non-binding. it's almost like he is begging them to pass a law or two or three. It does seem that way as that's the one way that this National Emergency declaration doesn't come across as full out foolish. There already are monies available to tap into (that apparently are already being tapped into) for the wall & this sets a bad precedent for future Presidents to simply ignore Congress. But if this spurs Congress to rewrite some laws to put actual limits on the ability they've given Presidents to declare emergencies it's a step back towards rebalancing the powers of the legislative & executive branches; that would be a very good thing. And an actual win. Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Stalker says what? Hey, just because you happen to show up ahead of him, and he's the one responding to your posts, doesn't mean you aren't the one stalking the poor lad! Like some sort of pre-stalker! Edited February 17, 2019 by Koko78 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, Taro T said: Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. I'm not sold that Congress is, either. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Taro T said: It does seem that way as that's the one way that this National Emergency declaration doesn't come across as full out foolish. There already are monies available to tap into (that apparently are already being tapped into) for the wall & this sets a bad precedent for future Presidents to simply ignore Congress. But if this spurs Congress to rewrite some laws to put actual limits on the ability they've given Presidents to declare emergencies it's a step back towards rebalancing the powers of the legislative & executive branches; that would be a very good thing. And an actual win. Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. i think it goes much deeper than just Trump. as others have opined, Trump may have been selected to take the trash out and he is just the pinnacle that you/we see. there are many aspects to his presidency where it seems that events are more than just mere coincidence. which in turn would suggest that there is more in play than meets the eye. i am a firm believer that we are all part a larger consciousness and that that larger consciousness leaks out through all of us. there is no other way to explain some of the madness that we currently seeing exposed on the grand scale. thanks in large part to the internet, there is a convergence of the waking mind happening, throughout all of mankind. we are experiencing a quickening that is happening in that larger consciousness and we are fast approaching a correction of sorts. Edited February 17, 2019 by Foxx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, KRC said: I'm not sold that Congress is, either. only game Congress is good at is Pin The Blame On The Other Party. And Democrats seem to enjoy Orangeman Pinata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, Foxx said: i think it goes much deeper than just Trump. as others have opined, Trump may have been selected to take the trash out and he is just the pinnacle that you/we see. there are many aspects to his presidency where it seems that events are more than just mere coincidence. which in turn would suggest that there is more in play than meets the eye. i am a firm believer that we are all part a larger consciousness and that that larger consciousness leaks out through all of us. there is no other way to explain some of the madness that we currently seeing exposed on the grand scale. thanks in large part to the internet, there is a convergence of the waking mind happening, throughout all of mankind. we are experiencing a quickening that is happening in that larger consciousness and we are fast approaching a correction of sorts. Would agree with the bolded. And agree that what's going on goes beyond Trump. Hoping that he is playing 4D chess. Just having a hard time reconciling/deciding how much he is & how much of it is hopeful thinking. Especially when, for something like reining in executive emergency powers, to start there needs to be good legislation emanating from a chamber led by a woman that doesn't realize natural gas is a fossil fuel. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Pentagon Chief Likely to Approve Border Wall Funding Request, Defense Official Says 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Taro T said: It does seem that way as that's the one way that this National Emergency declaration doesn't come across as full out foolish. There already are monies available to tap into (that apparently are already being tapped into) for the wall & this sets a bad precedent for future Presidents to simply ignore Congress. But if this spurs Congress to rewrite some laws to put actual limits on the ability they've given Presidents to declare emergencies it's a step back towards rebalancing the powers of the legislative & executive branches; that would be a very good thing. And an actual win. Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. We'll see. To me, it has been fairly apparent that President Trump wants Congress to do its damn job!! If he has to pull an #orangemanbad to get them to do it, and people call that 4D chess, so be it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just checking in! Are guys ok? The rest of the world is really concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: We'll see. To me, it has been fairly apparent that President Trump wants Congress to do its damn job!! If he has to pull an #orangemanbad to get them to do it, and people call that 4D chess, so be it. Congress hasn't done its job in at least 12 years. Would agree he'd like them to do it, don't expect them to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Taro T said: Congress hasn't done its job in at least 12 years. Would agree he'd like them to do it, don't expect them to though. You mean 212 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 What a waste... All this idiot had to do was enforce existing laws... He's spending 8 Billion on a wall that's going to get customized by the cartels and Traffickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, #34fan said: What a waste... All this idiot had to do was enforce existing laws... He's spending 8 Billion on a wall that's going to get customized by the cartels and Traffickers. Of course, you clearly know better than the people who are responsible for border security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Of course, you clearly know better than the people who are responsible for border security. That's what they do down here, man.... Tunnels, hydaraulics, walkover bridges, that thing is going to get tricked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, #34fan said: That's what they do down here, man.... Tunnels, hydaraulics, walkover bridges, that thing is going to get tricked out. So why would the cartels need all that? The current talking point is that drugs only come through ports of entry. There's even statistics! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Koko78 said: So why would the cartels need all that? The current talking point is that drugs only come through ports of entry. There's even statistics! Dope isn't the only commodity being trafficked... There's people.. guns.. Money... There's more than one reason why a wall won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 @#34fan I assume you’re pro human slavery of brown people then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Koko78 said: So why would the cartels need all that? The current talking point is that drugs only come through ports of entry. There's even statistics! Because they haven’t figured out how to transport multiple shipping containers across the desert on a daily basis, but yeah, continue to fall for the BS. Edited February 18, 2019 by BigMcD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: @#34fan I assume you’re pro human slavery of brown people then? As long as they vote Democrat, then yes. They have been that way since the beginning. 3 hours ago, row_33 said: You mean 212 years It was kind of made to function that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. That's quite the statement! In summary, and I am not a lawyer, it seems to be a thanks for the money for the wall and Double Dumb Ass Pork Chop on You to most of the rest of the legislation. Aside from the opening sentence, there are 8 paragraphs and each one has at least at least 1 knock out punch to the provisions of the “Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2019”. Paragraph #2: "I will treat these, and similar provisions, consistent with the President’s constitutional authority as Commander in Chief." Paragraph #3: "My Administration will treat each of these provisions consistent with the President’s constitutional authorities with respect to foreign relations." Paragraph #4: "I will treat this provision consistent with the President’s constitutional responsibility to faithfully execute the laws of the United States." Paragraph #5: "Legislation that significantly impedes the President’s ability to supervise the executive branch or obtain the assistance of aides in this function violates the separation of powers by undermining the President’s ability to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities, including the responsibility to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. My Administration will, therefore, construe these restrictions in Division C, title II consistent with these Presidential duties." Paragraph #6: "I will treat these provisions in a manner consistent with the President’s constitutional authority to withhold information that could impair foreign relations, national security, the deliberative processes of the executive branch, or the performance of the President’s constitutional duties" Paragraph #7: "I will construe these, and similar provisions, consistent with my authority to control the dissemination of information protected by executive privilege." Paragraph #8: "Because the Constitution gives the President the authority to recommend “such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient”, my Administration will continue the practice of treating provisions like these as advisory and non-binding." Paragraph #9: "These are impermissible forms of congressional aggrandizement in the execution of the laws other than by the enactment of statutes." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: @#34fan I assume you’re pro human slavery of brown people then? Tasky, I know I say this to you alot, but what the f___ are you talking about, man? The US-MEX border is an economic engine of illegal activity... Lives depend on these cartels being able to get their product to market... You really think a little bit of concrete and rebar is going to stop that? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the contractors building the wall are bankrolled by the cartel.... Put 1/4 of that 8 Billion towards surveillance, detection, and enforcement and you'd have a far better bead on slowing down the traffickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Surveillance and detection are included. But, "muh talking points" Not a single original thought. Just regurgitating partisan talking points because that's all 34 is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 11 hours ago, #34fan said: What a waste... All this idiot had to do was enforce existing laws... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 BUT THE NARRATIVE: Obama’s Border Patrol Chief Says Trump Isn’t Making Up Border Emergency. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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