LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The thing is Jax wouldn't save nearly that much. If they don't want Bortles, they would basically save $6.5M in guaranteed salary over cutting him outright. So you're suggesting they'd give up a 2nd round pick for $6.5M cap hit. It was Osweilier's huge, fully guaranteed salary that spurred the Texans-Browns deal as I recall Like I said earlier, I could have sworn I read from a reputable source that their cap hit if cut outright was 16.5 mil. If a trade only saves them 6.5 mil, it's not going to happen. Maybe like a 6th rounder. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustVisiting Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Heff said: Long time reader first time topic poster. I was wondering if we could pull a Cleveland move and obsorb Blake Bortles contract for a second rd pick, plus a fifth? Jaguars fan here. I found this post while doing my daily check for team news and figured I would weigh in. When in comes to Blake my unpopular opinion is that he's been a scapegoat for several years. He does have a poor delivery. His decision making isn't always the best. He'll force some throws because he doesn't always go through his reads. That being said some of this can be corrected. He's young, he's not a media darling like Tebow, he's athletic, and he plays with heart. Accuracy aside he has a cannon of an arm. (Note: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000400156/article/matthew-stafford-leads-list-of-top-10-strongest-arms ) He rounded out the top 10 strongest arms for QB's in '14. I believe the right coaching staff could turn his career around. People tend to ignore the state of the Jaguars franchise during Blake's rookie and subsequent seasons. There was a lot of coaching turnover. The front office was consistently hamstrung by the financial decisions of prior regimes. Blake was surrounded by rookies. The offensive line was patchwork at best. The defense was not the juggernaut it is today. Of course Blake had a monster sophomore season. He had no choice. Fundamentals are tossed out the window when you've got to do your best Favre impression to stay in games. Blake is athletic enough to play behind a line of dog food bags but no rookie should start their career that way. Ultimately he was drafted too high and started too soon. Does this mean he shouldn't have been a starter in the NFL? Not necessarily. Just not for the Jaguars at that time. I would say he's a backup at best right now but a project at worst. Blake does present at a great value but only after this current contract is up. You just can't draft a project quarterback and start him under a patchwork coaching staff plucked from the bottom of the barrel of coaching candidates. Remember that at that time the Jaguars couldn't lure quality coaches to Duvall. Hell they couldn't even attract free agents that weren't past their prime for less than double their worth. Trade wise this isn't a terrible idea. You do have the cap space and the Jaguars only need cap space. This fan would prefer to keep Bortles on as an insurance policy and draft a QB on day 2. He'll be paid too much to be a backup should the rookie take his spot but the cap casualty is also too much to not consider. I'd much rather pay a bit more and get a return on said investment than literally pay to have nothing. That's just me and it's based mostly on Blake the person and not Blake the player. He's not a cancer, his teammates support him, he plays to win, and he'll play hurt. That's my 2 cents. Edited January 25, 2019 by JustVisiting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, JustVisiting said: Jaguars fan here. I found this post while doing my daily check for team news and figured I would weigh in. When in comes to Blake my unpopular opinion is that he's been a scapegoat for several years. He does have a poor delivery. His decision making isn't always the best. He'll force some throws because he doesn't always go through his reads. That being said some of this can be corrected. He's young, he's not a media darling like Tebow, he's athletic, and he plays with heart. Accuracy aside he has a cannon of an arm. I believe the right coaching staff could turn his career around. People tend to ignore the state of the Jaguars franchise during Blake's rookie and subsequent seasons. There was a lot of coaching turnover. The front office was consistently hamstrung by the financial decisions of prior regimes. Blake was surrounded by rookies. The offensive line was patchwork at best. The defense was not the juggernaut it is today. Of course Blake had a monster sophomore season. He had no choice. Fundamentals are tossed out the window when you've got to do your best Favre impression to stay in games. Blake is athletic enough to play behind a line of dog food bags but no rookie should start their career that way. Ultimately he was drafted too high and started too soon. Does this mean he shouldn't have been a starter in the NFL? Not necessarily. Just not for the Jaguars at that time. I would say he's a backup at best right now but a project at worst. Blake does present at a great value but only after this current contract is up. You just can't draft a project quarterback and start him under a patchwork coaching staff plucked from the bottom of the barrel of coaching candidates. Remember that at that time the Jaguars couldn't lure quality coaches to Duvall. Hell they couldn't even attract free agents that weren't past their prime for less than double their worth. Trade wise this isn't a terrible idea. You do have the cap space and the Jaguars only need cap space. This fan would prefer to keep Bortles on as an insurance policy and draft a QB on day 2. He'll be paid too much to be a backup should the rookie take his spot but the cap casualty is also too much to not consider. I'd much rather pay a bit more and get a return on said investment than literally pay to have nothing. That's just me and it's based mostly on Blake the person and not Blake the player. He's not a cancer, his teammates support him, he plays to win, and he'll play hurt. That's my 2 cents. Thnx for contributing. It's settled then, you guys keep him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said: So you’d rather have an absorption of a substantial contract because of a 2nd and 5th, knowing less than 10% of fifths ever start, vs. going after a couple of WR and a Guard or Center, and then have more talent when we draft as we already have two 2nds. Doesnt make any sense to me as I live in FL and he is not good at all, but I do welcome you to the board. You seem to think we’d really fill out the roster with the 6.5m on the line here eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Like I said earlier, I could have sworn I read from a reputable source that their cap hit if cut outright was 16.5 mil. If a trade only saves them 6.5 mil, it's not going to happen. Maybe like a 6th rounder. Meh. Let me try to break it down a bit better. Your source isn't wrong, but you have to look at the difference in cap hit between cutting and trading him. In both cases, they're on the hook for this year's and next year's amortized bonus of $10M. So if they trade him, they take $10M cap hit. If they cut him, they're on the hook for this year's guaranteed salary as well (depending upon details of his contract language and what anyone else pays him, they might gt some back. So that is $16.5M. My point was, if they trade him, they're still on the hook for $10M, so $16.5M (cap hit if cut) - $10M (cap hit if traded) = $6.5M saving from trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Let me try to break it down a bit better. Your source isn't wrong, but you have to look at the difference in cap hit between cutting and trading him. In both cases, they're on the hook for this year's and next year's amortized bonus of $10M. So if they trade him, they take $10M cap hit. If they cut him, they're on the hook for this year's guaranteed salary as well (depending upon details of his contract language and what anyone else pays him, they might gt some back. So that is $16.5M. My point was, if they trade him, they're still on the hook for $10M, so $16.5M (cap hit if cut) - $10M (cap hit if traded) = $6.5M saving from trade. Got it. Not gonna get much under these circumstances. Not interested in a 5th or even 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Beane has said he believes in building through the draft and not making any big splashes in free agency. The Bortles plan would seem to align with that philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateHookerMD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Interesting but it doesn’t seem to be their style. Plus there are two QB’s under contract that have both been helpful to Allen. They would trade for him and cut him and eat the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buffalo86 said: Beane has said he believes in building through the draft and not making any big splashes in free agency. The Bortles plan would seem to align with that philosophy. Why spend money on good players in free agency when you can buy late rnd draft picks instead? You think that aligns with Beane's philosophy? I am pretty sure there is no 'Bortles plan'. Put a fork in this thread. Edited January 25, 2019 by Turk71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Heff said: Long time reader first time topic poster. I was wondering if we could pull a Cleveland move and obsorb Blake Bortles contract for a second rd pick, plus a fifth? 2 and 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 This thread warrants four pages of comments? Hmm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Not sure why we need to even consider this. For once in 20+ years the Bills are set in the QB department. Where would Bortles fit in? Yeah... I mean with a field that includes a guy with a 52.8% completion percentage, rushes more than a RB, threw more INT's than TD's, and had a 67.9 Passer Rating (52.3 QBR), along with greats like Matt Barkley & Derek Anderson, you're absolutely right! Stop the search everyone! The Bills have finally made it! How could we possibly get any better than that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I’m not inclined to help Maronne for less than a boatload of first rounders, like....a decade’s worth. Maybe I’m emotional on that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I doubt it could be done but if they offered a 2nd and 3rd and we traded them our 7th I would do it but I would not even consider it for just a 2nd and us giving them a 5th. to move up three rounds should not cost that kind of cash. 8 minutes ago, Augie said: I’m not inclined to help Maronne for less than a boatload of first rounders, like....a decade’s worth. Maybe I’m emotional on that point? I think we would be screwing them if we could get a 1st this year. THAT makes me feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Bortles is transitioning into maybe a journeyman backup QB for the rest of his career........his days of starting for any team is definately over.....well unless he takes a plane ride up to the Great White North of the CFL........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Edit. The number of posters who don't seem to understand this concept is startling. I'm sure they're terrific people, but c'mon man! I think that situation has only happened once, in the Osweiler to Browns deal. So, perhaps it is understandable that many people here do not grasp the concept you speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Poleshifter said: I think that situation has only happened once, in the Osweiler to Browns deal. So, perhaps it is understandable that many people here do not grasp the concept you speak of. I guess. The OP referenced Cleveland and "obsorbing" the contract so I thought he made it pretty clear. Not a big deal. Edited January 25, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, BigDingus said: Yeah... I mean with a field that includes a guy with a 52.8% completion percentage, rushes more than a RB, threw more INT's than TD's, and had a 67.9 Passer Rating (52.3 QBR), along with greats like Matt Barkley & Derek Anderson, you're absolutely right! Stop the search everyone! The Bills have finally made it! How could we possibly get any better than that? You have convinced me! Blake Bortles is the answer! Pay that man 21 million dollars! ?!?!?!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 It's an interesting thought, but if the team that gets him is only on the hook for $6.5 mil they might be able to find a team with an uncertain QB situation that would trade a late round pick for him straight up. Someone might see him as a viable b/u or reclamation project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Just $6.5M of his 2019 contract is guaranteed..........so that's what it would cost in cap space to trade for him. It would be a sellers market if the Jags offered up a pick for someone to take him............lot's of teams with lot's of cap room. That $6.5M guarantee has offsets too. That means that if the Jags cut him and he signs elsewhere then the amount he’s paid in 2019 is deducted from that. Even as a backup he’d make more than $6.5M so there’s no Osweiler type deal to be done here. That only happened because of the salary guarantees in his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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