Mr Decoy, Sammy Watkins expected to play vs. Colts

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You actually have to be on the field for games that count in order to be better than any of our receivers. Get serious. He has FRICKIN MAHOMES, NFL MVP, as his quarterback, and he STILL can't live up to his draft position or contract.

 

Robert Foster had more yards than him this season. Take a guess as to what their pay disparity is.

 

Yeah.

 

 

 

And we could have both players right now.

 

At least Mahomes is getting some respect in this post. Most Bills fans can't even admit he's good.

 

I'd take Sammy over Foster.

 

As for the pay, It's not my money and the Bills have plenty of cap space. Which FA WR is better than him and how much will he cost?

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

Sammy ….. 40 catches ….. 519 yards ….. 3 TDs

Foster   ….. 27 catches ….. 541 yards ….. 3 TDs

Jones    ….. 56 catches ….. 652 yards ….. 7 TDs

 

So actually he's not, you are wrong. Weather he's better than Foster or not may be debatable, but he doesn't hold a candle to "stone hands" Jones, add in the salaries of the three receivers and the Bills are getting WAYYYYYYYYYY more bang for their bucks with Zay and Robert than the Chiefs are getting with Sammy.

So, yes younger players on first contracts are less expensive ( aka more bang for the buck) than players on a second, more lucrative deal. That’s dictated by the parameters of the NFL salary structure and system of drafting/ free agency. This has nothing to do with which player is more talented. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

Sammy ….. 40 catches ….. 519 yards ….. 3 TDs

Foster   ….. 27 catches ….. 541 yards ….. 3 TDs

Jones    ….. 56 catches ….. 652 yards ….. 7 TDs

 

So actually he's not, you are wrong. Weather he's better than Foster or not may be debatable, but he doesn't hold a candle to "stone hands" Jones, add in the salaries of the three receivers and the Bills are getting WAYYYYYYYYYY more bang for their bucks with Zay and Robert than the Chiefs are getting with Sammy.

 

Yes he is. You're really defending the Bills WRs right now? If you do that how will you defend Allen's completion percentage later?

 

Bills receivers are absolute garbage. Hope Zay gets cut, he's a bad player and an embarrassment off the field. 

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Yes he is. You're really defending the Bills WRs right now? If you do that how will you defend Allen's completion percentage later?

 

Bills receivers are absolute garbage. Hope Zay gets cut, he's a bad player and an embarrassment off the field. 

I don’t think anyone is defending the bills wrs. They’re just comparing how the receivers you think are absolute garbage have better production than Sammy this year. 

 

Also, why would you hope zay gets cut?  Wouldn’t you like to see him improve so the team gets better?  

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, teef said:

I don’t think anyone is defending the bills wrs. They’re just comparing how the receivers you think are absolute garbage have better production than Sammy this year. 

 

Also, why would you hope zay gets cut?  Wouldn’t you like to see him improve so the team gets better?  

 

Because he has been bad for two years outside of a game or two and he's an embarrassment off the field. I would have cut him immediately after that video. He's just stopping us from finding another Foster.

[macaroni]

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

So, yes younger players on first contracts are less expensive ( aka more bang for the buck) than players on a second, more lucrative deal. That’s dictated by the parameters of the NFL salary structure and system of drafting/ free agency. This has nothing to do with which player is more talented. 

 

Has nothing to do with contracts …. has to do with talent, and you measure talent with on the field numbers. The poster I was responding to said Sammy is a better WR than anybody who wore a Bills uniform by far. I was pointing out that he wasn't. I added the salary part tom illustrate that TALENTWISE he was comparable to Foster, and somewhat less than Jones, but VALUEWISE Foster+Jones has him beat hands down.

[Misterbluesky]

That field is a mess.

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's crazy he was our #1 receiver for half the season. That trade was a huge whiff. We need to draft a receiver on day 1 or 2 this year.

He was acquired to replace Sammy. 

[Misterbluesky]

Take the under 57.

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Kelvin Benjamin a healthy scratch today too HA.

 

Sammy right now is a better overall WR than Foster, it’s not even that close really.  However, Foster appears to be an ascending player and at 1/32 the price.  So more than reasonable people would prefer to have an ascending player in Foster and his current $500k salary instead of Sammy’s $16m salary who has just one 1000 yard season in 5 seasons, and that was 5 years ago.  Plagued with both injuries and circumstance, he hasn’t produced what his salary dictates one should expect. 

 

Ive always believed Sammy to be quite talented.  But even I would prefer to have Foster and his salary right now rather than Sammy’s $16m salary.  At some point he needs to emerge as the go to guy with that kind of salary, and he just hasn’t yet.  He was out produced by more than one player while on the Rams, and he’s been out produced by multiple Chiefs players now too.  At $16m a year, you better be the guy the DC is game planning to stop, not the 3rd or 4th weapon.  

 

 

Agreed.  I’ve always been a Sammy supporter, but his feet are a problem. He’s brittle.  Can’t stay on the field.  Not worth the money.  They didn’t miss a beat without him.  I’m sure the chiefs would rather have that 17 mill a year back.  Every free agent WR that doesn’t get the money they want will be lining up to play for the chiefs on a one year deal.  Reid + Maholmes + Hill + Kelce = instant offense.  Sammy is a luxury and they’d be better off spending that 17 mill a year in defense. Their defense sucks and is the reason they won’t win the super bowl imo.  Colts win today. 

[formerlyofCtown]

If he plays he gets over 100 and 2 TDs, or he gets reinjured and is done for the rest of the post season

[C.Biscuit97]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Kelvin Benjamin a healthy scratch today too HA.

 

Sammy right now is a better overall WR than Foster, it’s not even that close really.  However, Foster appears to be an ascending player and at 1/32 the price.  So more than reasonable people would prefer to have an ascending player in Foster and his current $500k salary instead of Sammy’s $16m salary who has just one 1000 yard season in 5 seasons, and that was 5 years ago.  Plagued with both injuries and circumstance, he hasn’t produced what his salary dictates one should expect. 

 

Ive always believed Sammy to be quite talented.  But even I would prefer to have Foster and his salary right now rather than Sammy’s $16m salary.  At some point he needs to emerge as the go to guy with that kind of salary, and he just hasn’t yet.  He was out produced by more than one player while on the Rams, and he’s been out produced by multiple Chiefs players now too.  At $16m a year, you better be the guy the DC is game planning to stop, not the 3rd or 4th weapon.  

 

 

Good post overall.  The reason it’s even a debate is because Sammy can’t stay healthy.  You could have Sammy and Foster.  

 

Now, we are going to overpay for FA who isn’t close to the talent level of a (healthy) Sammy.  

[thebandit27]

50 minutes ago, Magox said:

Yes, it happens twice a year and his defenders crow as if he just was named superbowl mvp coming off a 1300 yard 12 td season.

 

Meanwhile his typical stat line game reads closer to 3 receptions 47 yards receiving and a bunch of "deafening silence" from all his defenders who cannot admit that he has proven to be exactly what some of us said all along about him which is that he has all the talent in the world but is too inconsistent and injury prone.

 

McVay traded for him and he failed to produce anywhere near at the level they had hoped he would hence them deciding to lose out on their 2nd round pick by not re-signing him to then turn around and pick up Brandon for even more than what Sammy got.   Those that are citing the McVay trade for him as some sort of supporting argument really arent thinking this through too much ?

 

 

 

He did lead the Rams in receiving TDs in 2017 with 9.

 

No Rams' WR in 2018 had more than 6.

 

You're correct, however, that the consistency just hasn't been there 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

Just now, NewEra said:

Agreed.  I’ve always been a Sammy supporter, but his feet are a problem. He’s brittle.  Can’t stay on the field.  Not worth the money.  They didn’t miss a beat without him.  I’m sure the chiefs would rather have that 17 mill a year back.  Every free agent WR that doesn’t get the money they want will be lining up to play for the chiefs on a one year deal.  Reid + Maholmes + Hill + Kelce = instant offense.  Sammy is a luxury and they’d be better off spending that 17 mill a year in defense. Their defense sucks and is the reason they won’t win the super bowl imo.  Colts win today. 

In this case the princess doesnt have glass slippers he has glass feet.

[macaroni]

8 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Yes he is. You're really defending the Bills WRs right now? If you do that how will you defend Allen's completion percentage later?

 

Bills receivers are absolute garbage. Hope Zay gets cut, he's a bad player and an embarrassment off the field. 

 

No he's not, and I'm NOT defending the Bills receivers (incase you missed it I nicknamed Jones "stone hands" in my post) I'm just saying that Sammy is a whole big pile of potential that has never been realized for any continued timespan during his career. But I am curious as to what makes you feel that he is better than his numbers say he is?

[formerlyofCtown]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Kelvin Benjamin a healthy scratch today too HA.

 

Sammy right now is a better overall WR than Foster, it’s not even that close really.  However, Foster appears to be an ascending player and at 1/32 the price.  So more than reasonable people would prefer to have an ascending player in Foster and his current $500k salary instead of Sammy’s $16m salary who has just one 1000 yard season in 5 seasons, and that was 5 years ago.  Plagued with both injuries and circumstance, he hasn’t produced what his salary dictates one should expect. 

 

Ive always believed Sammy to be quite talented.  But even I would prefer to have Foster and his salary right now rather than Sammy’s $16m salary.  At some point he needs to emerge as the go to guy with that kind of salary, and he just hasn’t yet.  He was out produced by more than one player while on the Rams, and he’s been out produced by multiple Chiefs players now too.  At $16m a year, you better be the guy the DC is game planning to stop, not the 3rd or 4th weapon.  

 

 

They are game planing against him.  The plan is to stomp on his foot every opportunity.

 

I really think Belichik put something in his gatorade that makes foot bones become brittle

Edited January 12, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

No he's not, and I'm NOT defending the Bills receivers (incase you missed it I nicknamed Jones "stone hands" in my post) I'm just saying that Sammy is a whole big pile of potential that has never been realized for any continued timespan during his career. But I am curious as to what makes you feel that he is better than his numbers say he is?

 

ok, When he's on the field he's better than any of our receivers this season. At least if we had Sammy instead of Zay we might be able to find someone who can catch while Sammy's injured. Right now Zay its a negative in my eyes with all the drops and lack of separation. Foster proves there are players who deserve it more out there.

[teef]

10 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Because he has been bad for two years outside of a game or two and he's an embarrassment off the field. I would have cut him immediately after that video. He's just stopping us from finding another Foster.

What?  He improved quite a bit from his first to second year. He’s not where he needs to be, but improvement was definitely there?  You’re that bent out of shape over a video?  Move on. It didn’t stop him from working and getting better than his first year. Your anger towards him is a bit strange. 

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, Magox said:

Bitter?  Does it sound like I'm bitter about Beane trading him away?  I am downright giddy that we dodged a bullet by not retaining him, because hes been exactly what I feared he'd been which was inconsistent and often-injured, not to mention a cap cost of around $17 million a year.

 

Bitter ?

Yeah, our offense has been super fun to watch without him!

[Magox]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He did lead the Rams in receiving TDs in 2017 with 9.

 

No Rams' WR in 2018 had more than 6.

 

You're correct, however, that the consistency just hasn't been there 

 

And the injury concerns which were part of the calculation of shipping him off.

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was pace for 1,000 yards and he got hurt.  Why are Bills fans so bitter towards ex players?  Injuries are killing his career but you are kinda dumb if you don’t think he won’t be our most talented receiver.

It must suck being 5’7”

Because they just dont know what they are talking about.  If not for his chronic foot issues they would be pissed we got rid of him.  And he would be in the confo with Julio, AB, and Hopkins.

 

And guess what, he can catch to even when doubled.  May not be as bad to have chronic foot problems as compaired to chronic hand problems.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Because they just dont know what they are talking about.  If not for his chronic foot issues they would be pissed we got rid of him.  And he would be in the confo with Julio, AB, and Hopkins.

 

And guess what, he can catch to even when doubled.  May not be as bad to have chronic foot problems as compaired to chronic hand problems.

Yeah, I hate injuries.  You’re just left with so much unknown.  And he was wasted here in our offense. He should have been feed the ball.  

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sammy-watkins-1.html

 

such an awesome player in college. 

 

 

[MJS]

I can't believe there is still debate going on about Watkins.

 

He's a bust. Plain and simple.

[Aussie Joe]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post overall.  The reason it’s even a debate is because Sammy can’t stay healthy.  You could have Sammy and Foster.  

 

Now, we are going to overpay for FA who isn’t close to the talent level of a (healthy) Sammy.  

 

Thats the point though right?

 

Not much good paying a million per game for someone to be watching from the sidelines.

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I hate injuries.  You’re just left with so much unknown.  And he was wasted here in our offense. He should have been feed the ball.  

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sammy-watkins-1.html

 

such an awesome player in college. 

 

 

He had a phenominal 9 games with Tyrod Taylor as his QB.  Too put it in perspective of how big of a deal that is.  Look at what Robert Woods is doing.

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Because they just dont know what they are talking about.  If not for his chronic foot issues they would be pissed we got rid of him.  And he would be in the confo with Julio, AB, and Hopkins.

 

And guess what, he can catch to even when doubled.  May not be as bad to have chronic foot problems as compaired to chronic hand problems.

Since when has he ever had a season comparable to those three?  He was healthy pretty much all last year and couldnt even crack 50 receptions and 650 yards receiving.

 

Its laughable to compare his career or production to those three.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Magox said:

Since when has he ever had a season comparable to those three?  He was healthy pretty much all last year and couldnt even crack 50 receptions and 650 yards receiving.

 

Its laughable to compare his career or production to those three.

 

His first 3 years were comparable to Julio and I don’t think the Bills had Matt Ryan on their roster.  

 

Buffalo murders receivers. 

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, our offense has been super fun to watch without him!

 

It was hardly the greatest show on turf when he was here..

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

If not for his chronic foot issues they would be pissed we got rid of him

 

Yes, if he wasn't injury prone he wouldn't be injury prone. That doesn't change the reality that he doesn't stay on the field. He also has an ego problem. If he was elite his issues might be worth dealing with, but he produces more like a good #2 receiver than a real #1. I get why people think he is so good. He looks like he should be elite with his size and hands and above average speed. For whatever reason he has never put it all together. Chiefs fans don't like him this year. They would much rather have spent his $17 million on some semblance of a secondary.

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

I can't believe there is still debate going on about Watkins.

 

He's a bust. Plain and simple.

I dont know if I would call him a bust but he certainly hasn't come close to living up to expectations and the Whaley giving up an additional first rounder was one of the many awful inept Bills draft day decisions we have made specially considering there were a few other better receivers that could have been had if we had stayed put.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

It was hardly the greatest show on turf when he was here..

They finished 12th in points scored. With Tyrod Taylor.  

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Chemical said:

Better than any receiver to wear a bills uniform this season by a long shot. And he’s their 3rd option. 

4th actually.  They throw the ball more to their running backs than they do to Sammy.

[formerlyofCtown]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

Since when has he ever had a season comparable to those three?  He was healthy pretty much all last year and couldnt even crack 50 receptions and 650 yards receiving.

 

Its laughable to compare his career or production to those three.

 

In 2015 he was fed the ball for the last nine games and matched their numbers. 

If you want take up issue with his injuries then I can understand but to take issue with his ability shows they you are not knowledgable and are a waste of my time.

?The childrens table is that way.➡️

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

I dont know if I would call him a bust but he certainly hasn't come close to living up to expectations and the Whaley giving up an additional first rounder was one of the many awful inept Bills draft day decisions we have made specially considering there were a few other better receivers that could have been had if we had stayed put.

Well good thing the new regime learned from this and didn’t trade up for a receiver. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They finished 12th in points scored. With Tyrod Taylor.  

 

So?

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes, if he wasn't injury prone he wouldn't be injury prone. That doesn't change the reality that he doesn't stay on the field. He also has an ego problem. If he was elite his issues might be worth dealing with, but he produces more like a good #2 receiver than a real #1. I get why people think he is so good. He looks like he should be elite with his size and hands and above average speed. For whatever reason he has never put it all together. Chiefs fans don't like him this year. They would much rather have spent his $17 million on some semblance of a secondary.

If youre going to quote me, next time put the whole post up their.  Not just part of it.

[Magox]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

His first 3 years were comparable to Julio and I don’t think the Bills had Matt Ryan on their roster.  

 

Buffalo murders receivers. 

Yeah, his worst three years.

 

Remember the days that all the Sammy defenders used to cite the first three year Julio comparison like you just did?  The comparison was made basically making the point that Sammy would progress and flourish just like Julio, except.........

 

 

 

That never happened.

 

Just admit it, he has been a massive NFL disappointment.  He was supposed to be an All pro, rather than that he has been the 3rd and 4th leading receiver ON HIS TEAM with pro bowl QB's.

 

Those are the facts jack

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Buffalo murders receivers. 

 

The 2 best seasons that Sammy has had, by far, came in Buffalo. Over his 5 seasons in the NFL 57% of his career receiving yards came in his first 2 years here. Since then he has had trouble staying on the field and his QBs are treating him like a #2 or #3. This isn't a debate anymore. He has never been worth what a single team gave up for him. Maybe he'll finally turn it on, he is still only 25 years old. I'm not holding my breath though.

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

If youre going to quote me, next time put the whole post up their.  Not just part of it.

 

I didn't want to embarrass you by reposting the part about Sammy being in the same conversation at Antonio Brown and Julio Jones. How is that even a question?

[Magox]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

In 2015 he was fed the ball for the last nine games and matched their numbers. 

If you want take up issue with his injuries then I can understand but to take issue with his ability shows they you are not knowledgable and are a waste of my time.

?The childrens table is that way.➡️

 

Learn to read kid.  No one doubts his ability, at least not this guy.  What I have been saying for 2 years now is that he is very inconsistent and injury plagued.  That is indisputable if you are being honest with yourself.

[SWATeam]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was pace for 1,000 yards and he got hurt.  Why are Bills fans so bitter towards ex players?  Injuries are killing his career but you are kinda dumb if you don’t think he won’t be our most talented receiver.

It must suck being 5’7”

Must be that their "little jobs" make them bitter.

 

Your "rush back" comment is nonsense.  The man was out injured with his foot, and was still playing pick-up basketball at the LA Fitness in Buffalo...  Is basketball easy on the feet?  Sounds like he was really committed to rehabbing the foot.