Bills92 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: So in order to be one of the best, a guy can't ever get beaten? Got it. Who is one of the best then? No. But they don't give up on plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Bills92 said: No. But they don't give up on plays. Horse manure. Deion used to give up on plays routinely. Josh Norman does it all the time as well. Was Gilmore in the right to point at teammates before the conclusion of the play? Absolutely not. Do the 3-4 isolated incidents where it happened mean he's not one of the best? Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Horse manure. Deion used to give up on plays routinely. Josh Norman does it all the time as well. Was Gilmore in the right to point at teammates before the conclusion of the play? Absolutely not. Do the 3-4 isolated incidents where it happened mean he's not one of the best? Absolutely not. Deion was soft, but he was soooo good in just about every other area that it made up for it. Still never liked the guys style, but he was exceptional. Just don’t want guys like Gilmore on my team. He’s much easier to root against than root for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 He flat out didn't want to be here and most definitely didn't give his best efforts his final year here (Jimmy Graham hurdle, TNF arm tackles vs Jets to name a few). He was definitely one of my favorite players up until his contract year with us - aside from that year, he was solid but not great in his tenure here. Anyone trying to discredit his skills is bitter more than anything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Not really....it’s all arbitrary All Pro has a lot more weight than Pro Bowl for sure, but there’s an obvious bias toward everything New England in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Not really....it’s all arbitrary I hope you post this nonsense when a bill makes the list. I have a feeling then it will be very meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Not a Bill, don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Got a good one for you. Watch Chris Hogan BURN Gilmore! He is clearly best for a huge play and rather than take responsibility, he looks around at his teammates as to say “not my fault, bro.” He did this a lot towards the beginning of last season too with The Patriots. There were big moments in games, where Gilmore did not delivers. That’s why I stand by my claim - good but not one of the best. go to 1:17. You’ll see it: https://youtu.be/j698yPWaWQY My god. What logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Deion was soft, but he was soooo good in just about every other area that it made up for it. Still never liked the guys style, but he was exceptional. Just don’t want guys like Gilmore on my team. He’s much easier to root against than root for. I don't really agree with that. He's a quiet guy that just goes about his job. And he's good at it. 3 minutes ago, JimKellyTryouts said: He flat out didn't want to be here and most definitely didn't give his best efforts his final year here (Jimmy Graham hurdle, TNF arm tackles vs Jets to name a few). He was definitely one of my favorite players up until his contract year with us - aside from that year, he was solid but not great in his tenure here. Anyone trying to discredit his skills is bitter more than anything else. Patently false. The Bills low-balled him when he was going to be the #1 corner on the market. He would've gladly stayed for CB1 money, but he wasn't offered CB1 money here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 53 minutes ago, GG said: He definitely played at a high level in Buffalo, yet somehow the refs have now stopped calling ticky tack PI on him. Amazing how that affects DB rankings. This post needs to be repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: Not a Bill, don't care. Then don’t post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Gilmore's tackling was about as effective as a football bat. Edited January 4, 2019 by Irv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, nedboy7 said: Then don’t post. I can post where I please. Why is only positive feedback allowed? Rather than ignoring every thread that is irrelevant in my opinion, I try to point out when one is unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Irv said: Gilmore tackling was about as effective as a football bat. He wasn't a great tackler, but he could stick it to WRs with authority. I'll never forget him railroading Gronk at the goal-line to break up a TD, or the shot he fed Emmanuel Sanders that was called for a BS DPI penalty. Also, if you don't like his run support, shield your eyes from Levi Wallace ...you'll have a coronary. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I don't really agree with that. He's a quiet guy that just goes about his job. And he's good at it. Patently false. The Bills low-balled him when he was going to be the #1 corner on the market. He would've gladly stayed for CB1 money, but he wasn't offered CB1 money here. Okay, I was definitely making an assumption there, but I really don't think he wanted to stay unless it was for money he couldn't refuse (which we couldn't do thanks to Whaley's cap management) - talking about how his relatives could finally get to watch him play, saying how the "pats were beating him his entire career," not even saying thank you to Buffalo once on his way out, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Doc said: This post needs to be repeated. For the other side of this, see Solder, Nate. Works both ways, and no one can really say the officials don’t look the other way when you’re wearing a Pats* helmet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, gordong said: who??? ***** Gilmore ^^^ 39 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: who? ^^^ 39 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: He never performed to that level as a Bill. He was capable, high end....but had shortcomings....particularily his unwillingness to stick his shoulder in their against the run. ^^^ 22 minutes ago, mattynh said: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ^^^ 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Who ?? The dishonor roll of embittered Bills fans hating on ex-Bills who wanted to play on winning teams or wanted to be paid market value for their skills surfaces every time such a player does well on his new team. Maybe you fools should focus your bitterness on the Bills ownership, front office, and coaching staff who keep letting talented players leave while fielding a roster filled with non-NFL caliber players in the name of some cliche like "it all about the process" when it's really all about how big a profit the billionaire owner rakes in. 1 minute ago, Wsam4031 said: He had a good year but 1st team all pro top 2 in the league no way Who's better? 20 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I have to think it's because Tre's persona is more excited and happy as opposed to Gilmore. Frankly, I don't think it matters, but emotion is everything nowadays. The bit Tre did with the hockey goalie stuff though is pretty funny. I could never see Gilmore doing anything like that. It's not Tre's "persona". It's that White plays for the Bills currently and Gilmore no longer does. When the Bills decline to re-sign White and he moves on (as they've done for all their top corners over the years), the same cretins will surface with the same hatred for him as they now have for Gilmore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, JimKellyTryouts said: Okay, I was definitely making an assumption there, but I really don't think he wanted to stay unless it was for money he couldn't refuse (which we couldn't do thanks to Whaley's cap management) - talking about how his relatives could finally get to watch him play, saying how the "pats were beating him his entire career," not even saying thank you to Buffalo once on his way out, etc. Maybe...I guess that feels a bit forced to me. Very few FAs do the "thank you sir" routine on their way out of town; they know it's a business just like we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, JimKellyTryouts said: Okay, I was definitely making an assumption there, but I really don't think he wanted to stay unless it was for money he couldn't refuse (which we couldn't do thanks to Whaley's cap management) - talking about how his relatives could finally get to watch him play, saying how the "pats were beating him his entire career," not even saying thank you to Buffalo once on his way out, etc. Never wanted to be here , the guy’s a tool. Doesn’t really love the game and it showed in BUF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Boatdrinks said: Never wanted to be here , the guy’s a tool. Doesn’t really love the game and it showed in BUF. I'd like to hear the justification for that statement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: My god. What logic. Damn right - most people can see my point. There far too many Chris Hogan plays when he was on the Bills. Of course, some Bills fans love to rewrite history about former players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, SoTier said: ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ The dishonor roll of embittered Bills fans hating on ex-Bills who wanted to play on winning teams or wanted to be paid market value for their skills surfaces every time such a player does well on his new team. Maybe you fools should focus your bitterness on the Bills ownership, front office, and coaching staff who keep letting talented players leave while fielding a roster filled with non-NFL caliber players in the name of some cliche like "it all about the process" when it's really all about how big a profit the billionaire owner rakes in. Who's better? It's not Tre's "persona". It's that White plays for the Bills currently and Gilmore no longer does. When the Bills decline to re-sign White and he moves on (as they've done for all their top corners over the years), the same cretins will surface with the same hatred for him as they now have for Gilmore. Patently false, pure BS. If the Bills let White walk, many fans would be disgruntled. Many didn’t care for SG when he was here for football reasons and his lack of fiery play. Nothing wrong with wanting to play for a winner, and no team keeps all their drafted players. 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I'd like to hear the justification for that statement It’s my opinion and impression from watching him play as a Bill. Your mileage may vary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Damn right - most people can see my point. There far too many Chris Hogan plays when he was on the Bills. Of course, some Bills fans love to rewrite history about former players The league and fans disagree with you. Most people actually don’t see your point. Hate on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I'd like to hear the justification for that statement It’s his perception but he’s not entirely wrong. I would say that he *appeared* to not love the game and didn’t want to be in Buffalo. Watch his body language both on an off the field and his interviews. He never seemed to be enthusiastic about playing for the team. Go watch the Hogan play I posted where he was torched and it looked like he was blaming other. There were several moments like that. To interpret this as being aloof and not interested in the team, may not be correctly, but it’s a valid observation 10 minutes ago, Irv said: Gilmore's tackling was about as effective as a football bat. ...Bills fans who love to rewrite history about former players disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I can post where I please. Why is only positive feedback allowed? Rather than ignoring every thread that is irrelevant in my opinion, I try to point out when one is unnecessary. I think you do care. And that’s ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: It’s my opinion and impression from watching him play as a Bill. Your mileage may vary. By all accounts, "doesn't love football" is 180 degrees opposite of Gilmore. Here: https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/29/patriots-bringing-out-the-film-junkie-in-stephon-gilmore/ “I just remember how much he wanted to be the best, like all the little things, and really wanted to know everything inside and out – the way he practiced and the way he played and how competitive he was,” former Buffalo Bills coach and current Jacksonville Jaguars coach Doug Marrone said on a conference call in January. “I mean, shoot, when we played with him, he had one hand basically. He had hurt his wrist and he wound up out there and he was playing his butt off and just a really competitive kid.” Even though Gilmore is a quiet guy – sometimes so quiet that he’s inaudible – he makes sure his love for the game is contagious. Crossen, for example, has played beneficiary to Gilmore’s relentless love for football and his ability to absorb endless hours of film. 2 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: It’s his perception but he’s not entirely wrong. I would say that he *appeared* to not love the game and didn’t want to be in Buffalo. Watch his body language both on an off the field and his interviews. He never seemed to be enthusiastic about playing for the team. Go watch the Hogan play I posted where he was torched and it looked like he was blaming other. There were several moments like that. To interpret this as being aloof and not interested in the team, may not be correctly, but it’s a valid observation I guess that's why I don't judge people by their body language, but rather their body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Going to NE was probably the best thing for Gilmore's career. He's in a system that masks his main deficiency (a cornerstone of Belichick's D is that they always set the edge, meaning less 1 on 1 matchups between CB and RB during runs), he's in an organization that is the darling of the league and as such he is allowed to play more physically against receivers (which is a strong suit of his), and last but not least, he got paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: By all accounts, "doesn't love football" is 180 degrees opposite of Gilmore. Here: https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/29/patriots-bringing-out-the-film-junkie-in-stephon-gilmore/ “I just remember how much he wanted to be the best, like all the little things, and really wanted to know everything inside and out – the way he practiced and the way he played and how competitive he was,” former Buffalo Bills coach and current Jacksonville Jaguars coach Doug Marrone said on a conference call in January. “I mean, shoot, when we played with him, he had one hand basically. He had hurt his wrist and he wound up out there and he was playing his butt off and just a really competitive kid.” Even though Gilmore is a quiet guy – sometimes so quiet that he’s inaudible – he makes sure his love for the game is contagious. Crossen, for example, has played beneficiary to Gilmore’s relentless love for football and his ability to absorb endless hours of film. I guess that's why I don't judge people by their body language, but rather their body of work. Still not sold based on one comment during a conference. Belichick talks up the Bills and opponents all the time. Do you think he really believes it? Again, I’m not saying that’s the case but observing body language is the exact same thing as interpreting a quote. It’s all an inference based on information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: By all accounts, "doesn't love football" is 180 degrees opposite of Gilmore. Here: https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/29/patriots-bringing-out-the-film-junkie-in-stephon-gilmore/ “I just remember how much he wanted to be the best, like all the little things, and really wanted to know everything inside and out – the way he practiced and the way he played and how competitive he was,” former Buffalo Bills coach and current Jacksonville Jaguars coach Doug Marrone said on a conference call in January. “I mean, shoot, when we played with him, he had one hand basically. He had hurt his wrist and he wound up out there and he was playing his butt off and just a really competitive kid.” Even though Gilmore is a quiet guy – sometimes so quiet that he’s inaudible – he makes sure his love for the game is contagious. Crossen, for example, has played beneficiary to Gilmore’s relentless love for football and his ability to absorb endless hours of film. I guess that's why I don't judge people by their body language, but rather their body of work. Cool story, but I still don’t like Gilmore and glad they didn’t resign him. However as BADOL pointed out, if it meant drafting Mahomes and keeping SG I’d sign up for that. Come to think of it, I don’t like Marrone too much either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, Bills92 said: I guess I still harbor a grudge.. but every time I see Gilmour.. I see Chris Hogan running past him getting a TD with Gilmour clearly giving up on the play (October 2016).. That was a blown coverage by the safety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 The tackling issue, especially when he was here was a bunch of hooey, in at least one major respect. A huge portion of posters here would call him a *****, or not wanting to get hurt when he was tackling. If THAT was the case, you would NOT drive your shoulder into the ballcarrier or receiver, which is what he did a lot of the times when he missed tackles. He did miss far too many but it was because of technique, not wrapping a guy up, and trying to bulldoze him over that was his problem. Not being scared of tackling or contact. Tackling like he did was the way to get hurt not avoid getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: That was a blown coverage by the safety. Were you a defensive coach on the Bills that year? Didn’t look like it. Looked like he was beat and gave up 6 minutes ago, Capco said: Going to NE was probably the best thing for Gilmore's career. He's in a system that masks his main deficiency (a cornerstone of Belichick's D is that they always set the edge, meaning less 1 on 1 matchups between CB and RB during runs), he's in an organization that is the darling of the league and as such he is allowed to play more physically against receivers (which is a strong suit of his), and last but not least, he got paid. This probably makes more sense than the majority of the arguments here. Thanks for sharing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 yes, but is he "elite"?........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: White is just as good if not better and a more likeable personality. It’s not hard to understand. Fans want to like their team. Gilmore is good, but overrated now that he’s a Pat. I still didn’t want the Bills to pay him and I’m glad they didn’t. Um, he's not overrated. Throws against him had the lowest completion rate (42 percent) in the entire league: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-stephon-gilmore-was-pffs-highest-graded-nfl-cornerback-2018. How does being the best equate with "overrated"? Also bear in mind that he essentially got the Pats to the SB with a genuinely impressive pass break up on 4th down vs. Jax in the AFC championship game that, if completed, would probably have led to a Jax victory. And he played well in the SB (unlike the other members of the NE secondary). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 @Rico .... another Whaley gem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Capco said: Going to NE was probably the best thing for Gilmore's career. He's in a system that masks his main deficiency (a cornerstone of Belichick's D is that they always set the edge, meaning less 1 on 1 matchups between CB and RB during runs), he's in an organization that is the darling of the league and as such he is allowed to play more physically against receivers (which is a strong suit of his), and last but not least, he got paid. NE was tied for second in the NFL for number of defensive holding penalties. 20 teams had between 4 and 7 PI penalties all year--including Buffalo and NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: NE was tied for second in the NFL for number of defensive holding penalties. 20 teams had between 4 and 7 PI penalties all year--including Buffalo and NE. And how many times did they get away with defensive holding without being called for it compared to the rest of the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Were you a defensive coach on the Bills that year? Didn’t look like it. Looked like he was beat and gave up This probably makes more sense than the majority of the arguments here. Thanks for sharing There was a ton of discussion about that play after the game. Reading the tea leaves from postgame comments, the general consensus was the coverage was blown. I think there were about five threads on that play after it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: I think you do care. And that’s ok. I care about this message board and its overall quality. Individual players that are no longer Bills though? Nah. Happily moved on to the current team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Capco said: And how many times did they get away with defensive holding without being called for it compared to the rest of the league? Talk about moving the goal posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts