Trogdor Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said: I agree 2 years, let alone 1 year is too soon to let someone go regardless of color. 16 years was probably a little too long to hold on to Marvin Lewis as well. I get what he's saying too, but he wouldn't be saying it if a bunch of minority coaches just didn't get canned. It's kind of circular logic. The Bengals problems go way past Lewis. They still don't even have an indoor practice field. It's like UCLA and their 50yd practice field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And if you listen to the video, Burleson makes that point. He really hones in on Joseph and Wilks as two guys who were given a questionable situation and a very short leash. I can probably come up with a mile long list of non-minority coaches given the same treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And if you listen to the video, Burleson makes that point. He really hones in on Joseph and Wilks as two guys who were given a questionable situation and a very short leash. IDK about Will, but Joseph is a casualty of Elway's terrible picks. Elway is wreaking that team with his "standards". Just now, Nervous Guy said: I can probably come up with a mile long list of non-minority coaches given the same treatment. Part of the reason for that is because for a long time Black men didn't get hired for head coach positions. Hell there were people who thought they couldn't play QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 There is only two answers here. Either the NFL hierarchy Is plotting to keep minority coaches out of the NFL or at this moment there are not qualified minority coaches to be hired as HC. Very simple here. You make your decision which one it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, wppete said: There is only two answers here. Either the NFL hierarchy Is plotting to keep minority coaches out of the NFL or at this moment there are not qualified minority coaches to be hired as HC. Very simple here. You make your decision which one it is. Not all coaches, but if you don't think some aren't then your crazy. Read the transcripts for when they talk about black players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Part of the reason for that is because for a long time Black men didn't get hired for head coach positions. Hell there were people who thought they couldn't play QB. I'm talking about the last 10 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Could it be that these coaches really didn’t know what they were doing? Hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Marvin Lewis should have gotten another 15 years to get that first playoff win. At least be fair to the guy and give him enough time to get settled....Hugh Jackson was 3-36-1, gets fired and the browns win 6 of their what last 9 games? Todd Bowles was absolutely terrible. The cardinals coach may have a gripe but come on with this. Let’s be real here, the Steelers were 7-2-1 and have arguably the most talent in the league. They completely blew it and didn’t even make the playoffs. Not to mention the Bell situation and the Brown situation. They lost a game to the Saints because they faked a punt late. They lost to Denver and Oakland down the stretch. There is no way that coach should not be fired. The titans fired their coach last year after he got them to the playoffs and WON a playoff game. Marty Schottenhimer got fired after a 14-2 season. Neither one of those incidents resulted in race questions. Let’s just move on here. If you suck you get fired. It doesn’t matter what you look like. It really is that simple. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Nervous Guy said: I'm talking about the last 10 years... In the last 10 years there is a mile long list of White coaches fired after 1 season? Which is besides the point because he is asking for more representation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Marvin Lewis should have gotten another 15 years to get that first playoff win. At least be fair to the guy and give him enough time to get settled....Hugh Jackson was 3-36-1, gets fired and the browns win 6 of their what last 9 games? Todd Bowles was absolutely terrible. The cardinals coach may have a gripe but come on with this. Let’s be real here, the Steelers were 7-2-1 and have arguably the most talent in the league. They completely blew it and didn’t even make the playoffs. Not to mention the Bell situation and the Brown situation. They lost a game to the Saints because they faked a punt late. They lost to Denver and Oakland down the stretch. There is no way that coach should not be fired. The titans fired their coach last year after he got them to the playoffs and WON a playoff game. Marty Schottenhimer got fired after a 14-2 season. Neither one of those incidents resulted in race questions. Let’s just move on here. If you suck you get fired. It doesn’t matter what you look like. It really is that simple. Bingo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) What is the minority HC ratio in the NFL compared to D1 football? To answer my own question their are 13 of them, and there are 130 programs, so that equals 10%. https://hithighlights.com/sports/list-of-black-head-football-coaches-at-ncaa-division-i-fbs-schools/ Maybe these crusaders should be questioning the NCAA before the NFL? Edited January 1, 2019 by Binghamton Beast 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Seems like people can't leave race out of anything... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Marvin Lewis should have gotten another 15 years to get that first playoff win. At least be fair to the guy and give him enough time to get settled....Hugh Jackson was 3-36-1, gets fired and the browns win 6 of their what last 9 games? Todd Bowles was absolutely terrible. The cardinals coach may have a gripe but come on with this. Let’s be real here, the Steelers were 7-2-1 and have arguably the most talent in the league. They completely blew it and didn’t even make the playoffs. Not to mention the Bell situation and the Brown situation. They lost a game to the Saints because they faked a punt late. They lost to Denver and Oakland down the stretch. There is no way that coach should not be fired. The titans fired their coach last year after he got them to the playoffs and WON a playoff game. Marty Schottenhimer got fired after a 14-2 season. Neither one of those incidents resulted in race questions. Let’s just move on here. If you suck you get fired. It doesn’t matter what you look like. It really is that simple. Bills coach gets a pass for making the playoffs but a SB winning coach gets fired after one year of not making the playoffs?? On top of that you cite a contract dispute but don't blame the GM. What? Marvin Lewis had a job because those owners suck. They don't even have an indoor facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And if you listen to the video, Burleson makes that point. He really hones in on Joseph and Wilks as two guys who were given a questionable situation and a very short leash. I will say this about Wilks - it is kinda BS that the steakhead GM down there Keim, wasn’t shown the door along with him. For Bidwill to stick by that incompetent who was recently arrested for extreme DUI but sign off on axing Wilks after 1 year with a rookie QB is the type of **** that INVITES the talking heads to raise the race issue. It’s just a terrible look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: He needs to STFU. It has nothing to do with race. Why does he "need to STFU"? IMO, you should follow your own advice. As a former NFL player and now as a media professional who works in the media in close contact with current NFL players and other pro football professionals, Burleson is in a much better position to have a valid opinion on the role of race in how coaches/execs are evaluated/hired/fired than some bigoted message board nazi who thinks refusing to discuss race matters will make them disappear. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Trogdor said: In the last 10 years there is a mile long list of White coaches fired after 1 season? Which is besides the point because he is asking for more representation. ok maybe not a mile long and longer than 10 years ...but it's not unprecedented. Recent NFL Coaches First After One Season The 49ers and Jets have a quick trigger finger, but nobody can top the Raiders when it comes to firing a head coach after one season. Head Coach Team Year Record Chip Kelly San Francisco 49ers 2016 2-14 Jim Tomsula San Francisco 49ers 2015 5-11 Mike Mularkey Jacksonville Jaguars 2012 2-14 Hue Jackson Oakland Raiders 2011 8-8 Jim Mora Seattle Seahawks 2009 4-12 Cam Cameron Miami Dolphins 2007 1-15 Bobby Petrino Atlanta Falcons 2007 3-10 Art Shell Oakland Raiders 2006 2-14 Marty Schottenheimer Washington Redskins 2001 8-8 Al Groh New York Jets 2000 9-7 Ray Rhones Green Bay Packers 1999 8-8 Joe Bugel Oakland Raiders 1997 4-12 Pete Carroll New York Jets 1994 6-10 Richie Petitbon Washington Redskins 1993 4-12 Lou Holtz New York Jets 1976 3-10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: Bills coach gets a pass for making the playoffs but a SB winning coach gets fired after one year of not making the playoffs?? On top of that you cite a contract dispute but don't blame the GM. What? Marvin Lewis had a job because those owners suck. They don't even have an indoor facility. That makes no sense. All the Steelers have done is underachieve with that talent and they won a Super Bowl with Cowers players anyway. They have been incredibly disappointing when you consider what they have. No team in the league has the talent on offense that they have. They have the best RB and the best WR in the NFL. Hall of fame QB. They have had several excellent WRs come and go. When you stop and think about what the Steelers have had on offense alone, it’s crazy that they have only won once. And it was a very long time ago now. That’s not to mention the guys they have had on defense and probably a top 5 DC of all time for a considerable portion. It doesn’t mattter because they don’t fire coaches and he won’t be fired. I also in no way gave McDermott a pass and said as recently as yesterday he’s not the right coach so don’t give me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Pittsburgh hasn’t given their African American HC Mike Tomlin enough time either. Sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 33 minutes ago, whatdrought said: The rooney rule is the most racist thing about the NFL because it says that minorities can’t win the job on their own merit and need to be gift wrapped interviews. I'll say it served a purpose back then given that there were very few black coaches up to that point. Obviously far less before 2003 and it kickstarted number of black coaches. It certainly had an impact statistically. Just like anything it's pretty useless now. Probably an inconvenience for black coaches that have to get interviewed by the entire league and not get a job, as well as the other side forced to interview someone they have no interest in.. but I really don't see any issue with it. It's just some holdover rule now.. people recognize that, and it's just an inconvenience more than anything. It's not saying anything racist about black coaches now if you just realize the purpose and impact it had when the rule actually was making changes. Vance Joseph was horrible.. I actually was nervous about Bowles 1st year but he looks like he has zero personality. Good DC though. Hue... Oh Hue lol. Surprised with Marvin Lewis but that was gonna happen sooner or later. I don't see what the Rooney rule has to do with crappy coaches getting fired. But I guess this group is going to have a lot of ceremonial interviews that are going to suck. I'd hate to be interviewed knowing they're forced to do it but **** it, you might get a job if you're nailing the interviews lol. I'll bet Marvin Lewis gets a shot again somewhere, if not next year, at HC in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: I will say this about Wilks - it is kinda BS that the steakhead GM down there Keim, wasn’t shown the door along with him. For Bidwill to stick by that incompetent who was recently arrested for extreme DUI but sign off on axing Wilks after 1 year with a rookie QB is the type of **** that INVITES the talking heads to raise the race issue. It’s just a terrible look. Absolutely. Keim should get the boot as well. If nothing else, they knew they had to improve their sieve of an OL for Bradford and for Rosen, neither of them the sturdiest or most mobile of QBs. They drafted a center in the 3rd round, traded for a RT partly through the season, and really that's about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The thing I hate most about this is the blanket effect. If you want to say it’s a race issue, stand up and call whoever it is you think is a racist, a racist. Call Elway a racist, the Browns owner, the Brown family....whoever it may be. This insinuating bull#### is just that....bull####. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Absolutely. Keim should get the boot as well. If nothing else, they knew they had to improve their sieve of an OL for Bradford and for Rosen, neither of them the sturdiest or most mobile of QBs. They drafted a center in the 3rd round, traded for a RT partly through the season, and really that's about it. Did any of their Oline starters even finish the season starting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 STFU? Lol. You guys got issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: What is the minority HC ratio in the NFL compared to D1 football? To answer my own question their are 13 of them, and there are 130 programs, so that equals 10%. https://hithighlights.com/sports/list-of-black-head-football-coaches-at-ncaa-division-i-fbs-schools/ Maybe these crusaders should be questioning the NCAA before the NFL? Right, because you cant question one wrong before another? What kind of B.S. is this? You act like people don't routinely call out college teams for passing over more qualified minority coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, SoTier said: Why does he "need to STFU"? IMO, you should follow your own advice. As a former NFL player and now as a media professional who works in the media in close contact with current NFL players and other pro football professionals, Burleson is in a much better position to have a valid opinion on the role of race in how coaches/execs are evaluated/hired/fired than some bigoted message board nazi who thinks refusing to discuss race matters will make them disappear. Do you honestly think these guys were fired because they were black? Maybe I'm naive or maybe because I view everyone the same regardless of race...but I just can't imagine that race had anything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: Right, because you cant question one wrong before another? What kind of B.S. is this? You act like people don't routinely call out college teams for passing over more qualified minority coaches. You tell me. Who are the racists? Start naming them by names instead of being chicken *****. Then, tell us why they are racists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: The thing I hate most about this is the blanket effect. If you want to say it’s a race issue, stand up and call whoever it is you think is a racist, a racist. Call Elway a racist, the Browns owner, the Brown family....whoever it may be. This insinuating bull#### is just that....bull####. There is no insinuation, there is an underrepresentation of black people in coaching and management. The players are 68% black, so you can see where there seems to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I wonder what’s his view on Hue Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Did any of their Oline starters even finish the season starting? What’s your point? Many of them were hurt yes. So Keim gets a pass due to injuries but Wilks doesn’t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: There is no insinuation, there is an underrepresentation of black people in coaching and management. The players are 68% black, so you can see where there seems to be a problem. Start naming the racists and stop being a chicken ***** then. Until you name them, and tell us why they are racists, your just running off at the mouth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Binghamton Beast said: You tell me. Who are the racists? Start naming them by names instead of being chicken *****. Then, tell us why they are racists. Man just let me get out my contact list and get that for you. Get over yourself. If you want to ignore the history of the league or national hiring practices, be my guest. You think Jerry Jones isn't racist? Really? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, whatdrought said: This is stupid. The rooney rule is the most racist thing about the NFL because it says that minorities can’t win the job on their own merit and need to be gift wrapped interviews. Well, see, here's the challenging thing and I'll say it once and then STFU and ya'll can go on and run with it. Everyone has their preconceptions. Everyone tends to be most comfortable with people who fit their preconceptions, people who strike them as "someone like me". Having been in a position to interview and to make decisions about hiring people, and having seen decisions above me being made, I can say that overt discrimination "I don't think she can do the job because, woman" or "I don't think he can handle it, because, black" is very rare nowadays. What happens is that guys in hiring positions have their ideas, maybe unstated or unspoken ideas about what different people are like, maybe based on their own narrow experience. One guy, a senior VP at my place of employment at the time, once told me he was very surprised to see the results of a study that said the women on average tested higher on organizational skills and ability to multitask because his wife couldn't manage either. His perception (maybe unstated to himself) was that men are better at those skills. Just naturally and without any intent at conscious bias, he was going to carry that perception into his hiring and assignment processes. The Rooney rule, and other affirmative action strategies, exist not because minorities can't win the job on their own merit, but because in an "old boys club" atmosphere, they will NOT be "gift wrapped interviews" and given the opportunities that guys who fit the preconceptions and comfort level of people doing the hiring. I don't like them because I view it as too little, too late. And if they result in people being hired, but not being given the same support and opportunities that others get, they're misguided. But that's why they exist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said: What’s your point? Many of them were hurt yes. So Keim gets a pass due to injuries but Wilks doesn’t? How do you fire a coach after one year when your whole Oline gets hurt? They jumped the gun on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Binghamton Beast said: Start naming the racists and stop being a chicken ***** then. Until you name them, and tell us why they are racists, your just running off at the mouth. Please see my post above on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: Man just let me get out my contact list and get that for you. Get over yourself. If you want to ignore the history of the league or national hiring practices, be my guest. You think Jerry Jones isn't racist? Really? Thought so. Tell us why Jerry Jones is a racist? This should be good..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Everything has to be about race even when sometimes it isn't. In the end if you suck you get fired... Tell me how Marvin Lewis has kept his job for so long? That guy has done nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Did any of their Oline starters even finish the season starting? Yes. Mason Cole, their 3rd round rookie center, started all 16 games. Whether he should have been a starter to begin with, is another question. Just now, Boca BIlls said: Everything has to be about race even when sometimes it isn't. In the end if you suck you get fired... Tell me how Marvin Lewis has kept his job for so long? That guy has done nothing... Well, and if you listen to Burleson, he acknowledges that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: How do you fire a coach after one year when your whole Oline gets hurt? They jumped the gun on that one. I got ya. Yeah I agree. And if Bidwill got antsy then he should have completely cleaned house, not just fire the black coach. Keim has been collecting a paycheck off the back of Arians’ efforts down there for 6 years now. The guy is a stooge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said: I think you need to watch again. He’s not implying that it was race related. Just that he wishes there would be more minority represention at HC. I get what he’s saying So wanting more minorities hired has nothing to do with race? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes. Mason Cole, their 3rd round rookie center, started all 16 games. Whether he should have been a starter to begin with, is another question. Well, and if you listen to Burleson, he acknowledges that. You just get tired of the same race BS over and over after a while. Almost getting used as a crutch anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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