Updated: Steelers open to trading Antonio Brown - Rooney sees it hard bringing him back

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I do respect your opinion , but i did read that his hit would be spread over two years . and someone picking up the contract left might be  reasonable considering his skill set ( elite )

who has managed Diva players well?

 hence the title : )
we let Dareus go for a much bigger hit.
This affects Tomlin greatly how it is resolved. IMO he has to go.
 

i do not wager. and it is only my opinion

: )

 

Where dabills21 (in all this "agree with me or I will bet you" schtick) continues to fail to realize is that the Steelers can trade or cut him AFTER June 1st where the dead cap hit will drop from over $21M to just around $7M saving them nearly $15m in dead money.  Is it a sure thing he gets traded...nope...but it certainly may happen.  

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To this, it must be said AB denies it and says he knows who did it.  I don't know.

 

I think BadOl's point here, albeit made somewhat discursively, is that we currently have one guy on our team who generates enough off-season smoke from year to year to make one believe there is probably fire in the "scumbag" pit.  He's correct that relatively speaking, AB has been choirboy clean off the field.  What's coming out increasingly is that he's been a "piece of work" in the team facility and on it.

 

 

That's a bit longwinded for.......I'm right.

 

McCoy has a long history of accusations of being involved in assaults with malicious intent.

 

Brown is once-accused of almost accidentally hurting someone.

[3rdand12]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Where dabills21 (in all this "agree with me or I will bet you" schtick) continues to fail to realize is that the Steelers can trade or cut him AFTER June 1st where the dead cap hit will drop from over $21M to just around $7M saving them nearly $15m in dead money.  Is it a sure thing he gets traded...nope...but it certainly may happen.  

Thanks for the affirmation.
it is quite a story to watch though.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Oh please with your miffed outrage........you are taking Shady's word and not AB's word.

The woman claims that Shady instructed his lackey to strike her in the face,  knocking her down and then she was HELD DOWN and a drink poured on her.

That's not very nice.

Shady admitted to pouring a drink on her(warm and gently applied, I presume) before kicking her off the bus (Anything I can get you, Eddie?").

AB has not admitted to throwing furniture that someone says almost accidentally hit them.    The "you almost hit me so you owe me millions" nature of the lawsuit in itself is a stretch.  

 

(Know you're not speaking to me here.)

 

I think the point is, in both cases it is taking the word of the player vs the word of the accuser(s).

 

IMO, BadOl has a point that as far as I know, the furniture throwing is the only thing we know to AB's discredit (and while reckless, there's no claim it was intentional).

Meanwhile, incident after incident keeps emerging with Shady - the Party Bus, the Nightclub, the Babymama, the Tenant/Fiancee/Jewelry collector (not sure what to call her).  Maybe he's just a "victim of circumstance" (said in my best Stooges voice) but there IS a deal of smoke there.

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Thanks for the affirmation.
it is quite a story to watch though.

 

 

Yeah, its quite the train wreck and will be a very interesting story line to monitor. Amazing how their season went down.  The whole situation with Bell, then having a 98% chance to make playoffs in week 11 but still somehow muster that 2% and miss them, to now the imposing of Brown.  

 

Honestly, I have always felt Tomlin was pretty overrated as a coach.  Now seeing how this season has played out and all this drama, wondering if his job could be in jeopardy soon.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

My bad one SB win and two AFC championships.

 

Still more SB wins than ANY HC the Bills have ever had.......in Buffalo or elsewhere.

 

Teams would be clawing each others eyes out to hire him.........hell some teams might FIRE their HC to get him.

 

I'm sure teams would, given the "coaching carousel" that exists in the NFL - just as I'm sure Mike McCarthy will have eager suitors (already has 'em, by some accounts)

But  that's a total non-sequitor to this discussion.  The question was not "does Tomlin have more SB wins than any Bills coach?" or "would he have interest as a HC were he fired?"

 

The point was, Tomlin has been given a HOF talent at QB and a talent-rich roster to work with for most of his 12 years, and he's got 1 SB win and 1 additional conference championship to show for it.  They had their best record of his tenure last year and made a rapid exit from the playoffs amidst intimations they were not well-prepared.  He's had a top-10 offense AND defense by some metrics the last 2 years.  He's beginning (in some circles already is) to be regarded as having significantly under-achieved with the talent he has, and now there are questions emerging as to whether he can manage the locker room.

 

McCarthy got fired in part for the same reasons this season - 13 years with two HOF QB, 4 trips to the Conference Championships, and 1 SB win to show for it, began to be seen as under-achieving with Rodgers at QB

 

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I just cannot see McDermott wanting him on his team. I’m not saying I don’t. 

 

*blink* *blinkblink*

Well if this is an example of Tomlin being really clear about something, I'd hate to hear him when he's being obscure or confusing.

[BADOLBILZ]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That makes more sense.  It really seems like unnecessarily complicating the issue, though.  

 

Big Ben has had his issues with crap play - two 3 INT games this year,  5 INT game last year, passes that WR have to jump or lay out for.  He shows up for OTAs increasingly looking like the Pillsbury Doughboy and not like an elite athlete who takes every reasonable action to maintain himself in peak shape.  And so forth.

 

Most people in most professions resent it like h*** when someone who has his own professional failings calls them out publically or at work for professional failings.  No need to bring in speculation about 12 year old motorcycle accidents or 8 year old off-field incidents being a cause - maybe they are maybe they aren’t but just the on-field stuff is enough, in my opinion.

 

And yep, you’re right, there is a double standard for QBs.  But I think the problem with AB is that Tomlin has been treating him as though there’s a double standard for AB, at least since 2015 and continuing through escalating disregard for team rules the last 2 years.

 

 

LOL, Badol.  Yes, Tomlin will be forever remembered as the guy who was the Defensive Back Coach when Tampa won the Lombardi in 2002 or whenever it was.   That cements his reputation as a championship winning coach.  Not.

He’s been the head coach of a team with great talent for 12 years.  Sure he has a name for himself, but with 1 Super Bowl win at this point, he has exactly the same number of championships as a HC as Doug Peterson.   All these guys have egos.  All these guys want more, or they’d be off using their earnings to fund deep sea fishing trips or golfing vacations.  Sure, poor little rich boy and one can argue he made his bed, but he’s going to go down in football coaching history as an under-achiever at this point.

 

YMMV.

 

It's not unnecessary at all.........I guess you don't understand the dynamic going on there.

 

Anybody whose been on amateur teams where an undeserving coaches son is put in positions they shouldn't be,  and it hurts the team,  understands this dynamic.   

 

This is the issue that AB and others have had with Ben.   It's not about disliking Ben personally at all.........but the way management treats and empowers Ben rubs people the wrong way because they know he's been a screw up and his commitment to winning isn't reflected in his training or his performance.   

 

AB has a point.......he works incredibly HARD year round to be amazing at his craft......the level he's raised his game to is amazing.........meanwhile Big Ben shows up fat and plays as well as he can with modest preparation and then acts like they'd be winning if this player or that player was more committed.  AB thinks the organization should be leaning on him as a leader by example.    And he's probably right but it's a QB driven league   So it boils over.   Management is in a tough spot but AB ain't wrong.

 

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not unnecessary at all.........I guess you don't understand the dynamic going on there.

 

Anybody whose been on amateur teams where an undeserving coaches son is put in positions they shouldn't be,  and it hurts the team,  understands this dynamic.   

 

This is the issue that AB and others have had with Ben.   It's not about disliking Ben personally at all.........but the way management treats and empowers Ben rubs people the wrong way because they know he's been a screw up and his commitment to winning isn't reflected in his training or his performance.   

 

AB has a point.......he works incredibly HARD year round to be amazing at his craft......the level he's raised his game to is amazing.........meanwhile Big Ben shows up fat and plays as well as he can with modest preparation and then acts like they'd be winning if this player or that player was more committed.  AB thinks the organization should be leaning on him as a leader by example.   And he's probably right but it's a QB driven league   So it boils over.   Management is in a tough spot but AB ain't wrong.

 

The dynamic of the qb being given more leeway than other players is a standard dynamic in football. You don't think that Rodgers in Green Bay or Brady in NE has more latitude with their respective coaches or organizations? Big Ben might be a jerk or backstabber. That isn't the critical issue here with this talented and volatile receiver. The issue is how did he handle this somewhat tumultuous situation? Walking out on the team without giving an explanation to the staff in advance under no circumstances is acceptable or should be tolerated. From a team standpoint it was a despicable and dishonorable act. 

 

The notion that the same player who walked out on his teammates should in his warped mind be the designated leader on his team is an absurdity in itself. It's easy being a leader when everything is going right. However, you learn who your leaders actually are when things are not going well. All that needs to be understood is that when he got piqued and frustrated he walked out. That's a testament to his lack of leadership, and not the reverse as you seem to suggest. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not unnecessary at all.........I guess you don't understand the dynamic going on there.

 

Anybody whose been on amateur teams where an undeserving coaches son is put in positions they shouldn't be,  and it hurts the team,  understands this dynamic.   

 

This is the issue that AB and others have had with Ben.   It's not about disliking Ben personally at all.........but the way management treats and empowers Ben rubs people the wrong way because they know he's been a screw up and his commitment to winning isn't reflected in his training or his performance.   

 

AB has a point.......he works incredibly HARD year round to be amazing at his craft......the level he's raised his game to is amazing.........meanwhile Big Ben shows up fat and plays as well as he can with modest preparation and then acts like they'd be winning if this player or that player was more committed.  AB thinks the organization should be leaning on him as a leader by example.    And he's probably right but it's a QB driven league   So it boils over.   Management is in a tough spot but AB ain't wrong.

 

 

My point is that the bolded above is sufficient to explain the dynamic, without his 'ancient history' screw-up past.  I mean, half the team was prolly working on their driver's license back then and if they know about the motorcycle crash they prolly think it's badass. 

Don't you think AB would have pretty much the same beefs with Ben if he'd been squeaky clean off all his life, but was still showing up fat and underprepared, throwing his teammates under the bus, and stinking up the joint with his on-field play at times? 

 

The "undeserving coaches son" is a problem when put in positions he shouldn't be because his position isn't in sync with his talent, effort, or performance, not because he got in trouble as a 6th grader and now it's his Sr year.

 

And actually, I think you know that - your example about AB is all Ben's (lack of) commitment and (spotty) performance and the contradiction between it, and his call-outs of teammates/the lack of management "push back" on Ben, which is the point I've been making all along.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

My bad one SB win and two AFC championships.

 

Still more SB wins than ANY HC the Bills have ever had.......in Buffalo or elsewhere.

 

Teams would be clawing each others eyes out to hire him.........hell some teams might FIRE their HC to get him.

I agree.

[Doc Brown]

  

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My point is that the bolded above is sufficient to explain the dynamic, without his 'ancient history' screw-up past.  I mean, half the team was prolly working on their driver's license back then and if they know about the motorcycle crash they prolly think it's badass. 

Don't you think AB would have pretty much the same beefs with Ben if he'd been squeaky clean off all his life, but was still showing up fat and underprepared, throwing his teammates under the bus, and stinking up the joint with his on-field play at times? 

 

The "undeserving coaches son" is a problem when put in positions he shouldn't be because his position isn't in sync with his talent, effort, or performance, not because he got in trouble as a 6th grader and now it's his Sr year.

 

And actually, I think you know that - your example about AB is all Ben's (lack of) commitment and (spotty) performance and the contradiction between it, and his call-outs of teammates/the lack of management "push back" on Ben, which is the point I've been making all along.

That's the type of stuff you're supposed to handle in house though.  If it falls on deaf ears then you go to ownership as the Rooney family's reputation makes me think they could settle the dispute.  AB looks like a spoiled child in all of this.

[cle23]

Madden curse!

[Ol Dirty B]

16 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

$$$.  root of all evil.  Give me Robert Foster. 

 

You realize what you are saying is absolutely ridiculous. I hope you're trolling. Funny thing is you can find people who agree with you.

 

You are basically rooting for mediocrity. People who are good at their job get paid, that root of all evil stuff has nothing to do with Antonio Brown.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[Norcalbillsfan]

Not interested in bringing him to Buffalo. His talent undeniable, but he could be a poison in the locker room for a young bills team trying to build something. It's pretty obvious he's not in it to win super bowls as a team, he's in it for himself.

[Norcalbillsfan]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The dynamic of the qb being given more leeway than other players is a standard dynamic in football. You don't think that Rodgers in Green Bay or Brady in NE has more latitude with their respective coaches or organizations? Big Ben might be a jerk or backstabber. That isn't the critical issue here with this talented and volatile receiver. The issue is how did he handle this somewhat tumultuous situation? Walking out on the team without giving an explanation to the staff in advance under no circumstances is acceptable or should be tolerated. From a team standpoint it was a despicable and dishonorable act. 

 

The notion that the same player who walked out on his teammates should in his warped mind be the designated leader on his team is an absurdity in itself. It's easy being a leader when everything is going right. However, you learn who your leaders actually are when things are not going well. All that needs to be understood is that when he got piqued and frustrated he walked out. That's a testament to his lack of leadership, and not the reverse as you seem to suggest. 

 

 

Agreed, I could totally see big Ben as a massive D bag. But the guy always shows up and wants to win super bowls, hes not after QB records he wants rings. Every year we see him limp on to the feild banged up but still goes out and tries to win games. You have to show up for your team, you can't walk out on them when they need you. That's gotta be tough see as a Steelers fan.

[Jauronimo]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/uh-so-antonio-brown-was-the-first-contestant-on-the-masked-singer/

 

I don't think anyone expected this.  Your move, Stillers. 

[Gugny]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/uh-so-antonio-brown-was-the-first-contestant-on-the-masked-singer/

 

I don't think anyone expected this.  Your move, Stillers. 

 

Seems like Brown's being mentored by T.O.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh please with your miffed outrage........you are taking Shady's word and not AB's word.

 

The woman claims that Shady instructed his lackey to strike her in the face,  knocking her down and then she was HELD DOWN and a drink poured on her.

 

That's not very nice.

 

Shady admitted to pouring a drink on her(warm and gently applied, I presume) before kicking her off the bus (Anything I can get you, Eddie?").

 

AB has not admitted to throwing furniture that someone says almost accidentally hit them.    The "you almost hit me so you owe me millions" nature of the lawsuit in itself is a stretch.   

 

 

 

Shady said the claims of any physical abuse or restraint are BS.  If he poured the drink on her, yeah that's disrespectful but not anywhere near the level of Kareem Hunt in which there's video evidence, smoking gun evidence.  

https://www.tmz.com/2013/06/26/lesean-mccoy-text-messages-party-bus-lawsuit/

[whatdrought]

https://mobile.twitter.com/greggabe/status/1080615630045364226

 

What a hot take...

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/greggabe/status/1080615630045364226

 

What a hot take...

He is getting absolutely roasted for this on Twitter ?