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John from Riverside

Finally had a chance to watch the game....blaming Josh for this? Really?

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5 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

The Pats prep and make adjustments during the game, almost no other team does that, they were the first to put a spy on Allen.

 

 

No they were not.  Detroit and Miami did as well.  Making adjustments in game is something all teams do.  It also has nothing to do with not preparing for him during the week.  Jesus man.

Edited by Scott7975

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7 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I mean you could be added to the he never does anything wrong group. It's easy to just call out people with different opinions. 

 

Someone asked for examples, I provided them. I’ll add you to the list. Coal in your stocking 

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1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

No they were not.  Detroit and Miami did as well.  Making adjustments in game is something all teams do.  It also has nothing to do with not preparing for him during the week.  Jesus man.

 

Barely any teams make useful adjustments.

 

they have their plan and if it doesn’t work out, they shrug and lose

 

Belichick is one of the greatest ever at real time effective adjustments

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53 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Barely any teams make useful adjustments.

 

they have their plan and if it doesn’t work out, they shrug and lose

 

Belichick is one of the greatest ever at real time effective adjustments

I think you are right.  I’m amazed at the lack of adjustments. Maybe they decide more run versus pass, or more blitzing, or something simple like that, but I think most of the time  the adjustments are not as significant as people would like them to be. 

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13 hours ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

The guys had one job to catch the ball.  Josh and Daboll found the weaknesses.  And, we were let down by immature players in receiver roles who have given up or found excuses not to take hits or put themselves out there.  If I were Foster secondaries know if they hit me hard enough I’ll find a way to say I lost the ball instead of taking the hit.  A reason why he was on the practice squad.  Lots of the defensive call ups have helped and made impacts.  Foster being a “nice find” is realistically a trade value flip.  Along with Croom and Zay flip them for picks or teams that have a sucker in the front office they are there.  

Yup and then we have to get another WR and 1 and 2 TE.  We need another WR and TE already.  Croom is a viable #2 TE both are young and still developing.  They are going no where.  Zay actually had a decent game just not where I would like to see his level of play at next year.

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Its the same thing week after week.  Allen is a rookie he is going to make mistakes but when he makes a good throw and gives his guys chances to make plays they need to get it done.  Game goes off the track early.  First Allen hits McKenzie deep over the middle on a third and long and he drops it.  Next Allen hits Foster over the top on a bomb and Foster never locates the fb although on game film sure looks like his eyes/head follow the ball up to down.  Next ,fade in the end zone Foster stumbles and does't work back to it or at least make contact with Gilmore who is beat and is not even looking for the football.  Croom inside the ten fighting for a foot loses the football.  Logan Thomas lets a perfectly placed football go right through his hands for a what would be a td.  McKenzie gets hit early in end zone no PI. 

 

Zay Jones m.i.a. till late 4th quarter.  Allen is trying to win a football game with zero run game and two practice squad wrs.  The two picks are 100% on Josh  Bad throws late and should have never been thrown  One was really bad being on first down.  One terrible throw way over the receiver  I dont remember any other glaring bad throws. Kid needs help.  Shady is washed up, Clay checked out last year.

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11 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Allen had his worst game since coming back IMO.  He was inaccurate way too often, he made some really bad decisions and he missed too many reads. His stats were helped by the garbage time QB drive. ESPN has him ranked second last in Total QBR this week with a 17 overall.  Only Kessler is behind him.  He was dead last in Unadjusted QBR. 

I dont know, i just dont think he was nearly as bad as your making it out to be. He was and has been the only thing weve had on offense. If foster catches that bomb youre looking at an entirely different statline. 

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17 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Girlfriend hates football......so on days when we both have a day off doing other stuff.....

 

Lucky for me I have NFL Game pass

 

OK so I did check in from time to time on my phone.....I saw the usual "ahem....suspects" tearing Josh Allen up in this game........so I was fully prepared to see a lot of inaccurate passes

 

Guys......come on please

 

There were by my count TWO touchdowns dropped in this game.......and when the pats got up they were running the ball down our throats and protecting Tom Brady in this game....those two touchdown drops could easily have changed the complex of this game.....other thoughts

 

That fumble by Croom also hurt

We still cannot run the ball to save our lives

Our special teams is so bad

Edmunds EASILY had his worst game as a bill from what I saw......Tremaine come on man I know the season is almost over but you gotta sell out dude....he had an opportunity to DESTROY Edlemen on that play where he scored because he was not down.......You gotta get in on that....and there was a lot more of that from Tremaine in this game

 

Allen had the two picks......and they were throws to receivers that you really cannot count on to fight for 50 50 balls...this is where Kelvin Benjamin not being the player we expected really hurts....we NEED that big physical wide out that will fight for contested balls.....if you look at all the other good NFL QBs they have that player on their roster.

 

There were also a lot of excellent throws by Allen in this game......it was not his BEST game but this is how it goes for rookies....the needle is up and down through the season and Josh Allen has NOTHING to help him out.......no running game to lean on.......pass blocking is inconsistant.......wide receivers that will not make plays

 

In the end.....improves our draft postion while giving our future QB another game of NFL experience

 

Not really understanding the ability of the patriots to dominate our D line like they are........I was very dissapointed in that

 

 

Hopefully it was bedroom stuff otherwise she would be waiting til after the game was over hahaha...

 

Also those 2 INTs were lob passes when they needed to be a different type of throw...he is young he will learn

Edited by matter2003

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11 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

The Pats prep and make adjustments during the game, almost no other team does that, they were the first to put a spy on Allen.

 

 

 

Thats not true, lots of teams have put a spy on Allen. They played a lot of cover zero and our WRs couldn’t separate or make a contested catch. There is not much a QB can do if guys can’t make plays in cover 0.

6 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Hell yeah, Josh Allen is part of the reason why we lost the game. 20 - 41 completions. Dude,  if Tom Brady/Russell Wilson/Cam Newton completed 20/41 completions in a game and lost that game, I would be criticizing them, too.

 

Even when we get better receivers and RB, Josh Allen will not hit the accuracy level of Russell Wilson and Tom Brady. Josh didn't show this at Wyoming AND he's not showing that right now.

 

He's a rookie. No kidding. Duh. But most of you guys anointed Josh Allen as the next Jim Kelly, Marino, and Elway. That's sad. You guys praise him like that then he will get criticized. No problem. On Josh Allen's best days (which I haven't seen yet), that's really Jim Kelly's bad games.

 

And I have given Josh Allen his props, but I know he's not the next Jim Kelly. Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold are way better right now than Josh Allen.

 

 

 

Thats fine, I think he might be better than Kelly. I also think his WRs should have brought in 5-10 of those passes. He can’t throw it and catch it unfortunately. I also don’t think there is a QB in the NFL that would have a successful season with this unit. 

 

Bottom line is Allen has showed a lot of franchise QB flashes as a rookie. Year 2 will be the year where we know for sure that we have one.

44 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Its the same thing week after week.  Allen is a rookie he is going to make mistakes but when he makes a good throw and gives his guys chances to make plays they need to get it done.  Game goes off the track early.  First Allen hits McKenzie deep over the middle on a third and long and he drops it.  Next Allen hits Foster over the top on a bomb and Foster never locates the fb although on game film sure looks like his eyes/head follow the ball up to down.  Next ,fade in the end zone Foster stumbles and does't work back to it or at least make contact with Gilmore who is beat and is not even looking for the football.  Croom inside the ten fighting for a foot loses the football.  Logan Thomas lets a perfectly placed football go right through his hands for a what would be a td.  McKenzie gets hit early in end zone no PI. 

 

Zay Jones m.i.a. till late 4th quarter.  Allen is trying to win a football game with zero run game and two practice squad wrs.  The two picks are 100% on Josh  Bad throws late and should have never been thrown  One was really bad being on first down.  One terrible throw way over the receiver  I dont remember any other glaring bad throws. Kid needs help.  Shady is washed up, Clay checked out last year.

 

This is the reality.

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Josh should have caught all those passes and those 2 TDs, held onto the ball for Croom, not made Hauschka miss a gimme FG, punted for Darr, covered kicks and punts better, opened holes for the RB's, stopped the Cheaters' run game, and played MLB for Edmunds.  So yes, it was all on him. 

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1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

Its the same thing week after week.  Allen is a rookie he is going to make mistakes but when he makes a good throw and gives his guys chances to make plays they need to get it done.  Game goes off the track early.  First Allen hits McKenzie deep over the middle on a third and long and he drops it.  Next Allen hits Foster over the top on a bomb and Foster never locates the fb although on game film sure looks like his eyes/head follow the ball up to down.  Next ,fade in the end zone Foster stumbles and does't work back to it or at least make contact with Gilmore who is beat and is not even looking for the football.  Croom inside the ten fighting for a foot loses the football.  Logan Thomas lets a perfectly placed football go right through his hands for a what would be a td.  McKenzie gets hit early in end zone no PI. 

 

Zay Jones m.i.a. till late 4th quarter.  Allen is trying to win a football game with zero run game and two practice squad wrs.  The two picks are 100% on Josh  Bad throws late and should have never been thrown  One was really bad being on first down.  One terrible throw way over the receiver  I dont remember any other glaring bad throws. Kid needs help.  Shady is washed up, Clay checked out last year.

This post 100%.

 

And note the last paragraph - plenty of tough but FAIR criticism of the bad throws Allen did make.  Most of us who thought Allen played better then his stat line have also been very critical of the poor throws/decisions on Sunday.  The difference though is we place his performance within the CONTEXT of the game and the fact that Allen is a rookie.

 

To say this was a bad game by Allen is to ignore what actually happened on the field.  IMO this was a mixed bag performance by Allen which is typical of rookie QB's with decent upside potential.  Sure he made some poor decisions & throws but he also made some outstanding throws that put the ball where an NFL RECEIVER could and should make a play.  That at least 3 TD's were left on the field through no fault of Allen's is enough proof to conclude that he did not have a bad day.   

 

The reason to be optimistic after this game is because IMO had there been a better cast of skill players on the field with Allen throwing the EXACT SAME PASSES we might have beaten the Pats.  This is NOT coulda/woulda/shoulda thinking either.  Next year with a season of LEARNING under Allen's belt and an upgraded WR/TE group we are going to sweep the Patriots.

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Guys the easy out for Josh would be to take the 2 yard check down on 3rd and 12 and get those stats up  Play it safe not move the ball and shuffle the blame on no run game an nobody open.  Kid is trying to make plays.  Lets see what he looks like with a quality support cast around him.  Meantime he needs to keep grinding and learning on how not to be tempted to throw those late balls into the teeth of the defense  Hopefully he learns.  Fitz never did

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Just now, DuckyBoys said:

Guys the easy out for Josh would be to take the 2 yard check down on 3rd and 12 and get those stats up  Play it safe not move the ball and shuffle the blame on no run game an nobody open.  Kid is trying to make plays.  Lets see what he looks like with a quality support cast around him.  Meantime he needs to keep grinding and learning on how not to be tempted to throw those late balls into the teeth of the defense  Hopefully he learns.  Fitz never did

 

One of his issues is not taking the easy checkdown on early downs that has been there for him as Bruce Arians noted on Sunday.  This is a pattern with him that makes it harder to sustain drives that lead to points being scored. 

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13 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One of his issues is not taking the easy checkdown on early downs that has been there for him as Bruce Arians noted on Sunday.  This is a pattern with him that makes it harder to sustain drives that lead to points being scored. 

But are you confident that with experience and proper coaching he will learn the difference between when to take the check down and when not to?  I'm fully confident he will because by all accounts he's a smart guy.  Arians also noted that Allen's stubbornness here reminded him of Andrew Luck and it took a full season for Luck to get it.  BTW, I don't think Arians would compare a QB to Luck lightly. 

 

It's also possible that Allen recognizes at some level that his RB's & TE's are not going to make plays with check down throws.  I thought it was interesting that when the Pats finally went into full prevent mode for Buffalo's last drive Allen hit 3 straight check down passes for good gains.  Against the soft coverage that was exactly the thing to do and at that point I doubt the Pats were spying on Allen to much.  In fact it makes me wonder if some (not all) of Allen's reluctance to check down during the game is that the opposition isn't giving him that choice.  I mean when you can blanket a teams receivers with man to man coverage and generate a decent pass rush with 3 guys it leaves you a safety & LB to spy Allen.  These guys also reduce the chance to hit the check down receiver as they're lurking about the LOS. 

 

 

Edited by CincyBillsFan

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16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But are you confident that with experience and proper coaching he will learn the difference between when to take the check down and when not to?  I'm fully confident he will because by all accounts he's a smart guy.  Arians also noted that Allen's stubbornness here reminded him of Andrew Luck and it took a full season for Luck to get it.  BTW, I don't think Arians would compare a QB to Luck lightly. 

 

It's also possible that Allen recognizes at some level that his RB's & TE's are not going to make plays with check down throws.  I thought it was interesting that when the Pats finally went into full prevent mode for Buffalo's last drive Allen hit 3 straight check down passes for good gains.  Against the soft coverage that was exactly the thing to do and at the point I doubt the Pats were spying on Allen to much.  In fact it makes me wonder if some (not all) of Allen's reluctance to check down during the game is that the opposition isn't giving him that choice.  I mean when you can blanket a teams receivers with man to man coverage and generate a decent pass rush with 3 guys it leaves you a safety & LB to spy Allen.  These guys also reduce the chance to hit the check down receiver as they're lurking about the LOS. 

 

I'm hopeful and the 2nd bolded text from your post is excuse making. Those are easy yards that anyone can see even from the broadcast view.  He has to take those to make it easier on himself and the offense. 

 

2utoi0l.jpg

 

Exhibit A.  Allen looked to Shady in the flat on this 2nd down play and turned it down to run instead.  This throw has to be made. 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
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17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh wasn't THE reason we lost. He was A reason though. It was not a good performance. 

 

No need to lose our minds over a rookie QB being made to look like a rookie QB by the greatest defensive mind in the game. 

 

Bad day at the office and a learning experience. 

 

There was one real positive of watching that rather painful game and that was listening to Bruce Arians in the booth making comparisons between Josh Allen and Andrew Luck who he had coached before in Indy.

 

He saw a lot of similarities to their rookie growing pains. He mentioned that Luck used to think he could run people over early in his NFL career, but learned as every QB does to protect themselves. Josh is bigger and faster, but he chuckled and said he was sure the coaches probably do not want him lowering his shoulder and taking on tacklers for extra yards.

 

To me, it seemed there was nothing he wanted to do more than jump down to the sideline and start coaching Allen. You can tell when coaches have the itch. He kept talking like he was on the sidelines, "kid, you don't have to throw a TD pass on every play just take what the defense is giving you". He mentioned that being a "game manager" is kind of looked down on, but there are times when a QB has to be patient and take what the defense is giving you and that is fine as it keeps your defense off the field when you can sustain drives.

 

He was not surprised or very critical, rather just pointed out that these were things that rookie QBs did and that the patience will come with experience. He noted what a lot of us have seen and that is that defenses know that Josh likes to push the ball down the field so their corners and safeties play off our receivers on the underneath routes, but Josh does not like taking the 5-8 yard check down passes that are open and would rather wait for the deeper routes to develop which can lead to protection break downs and broken plays when he could check it down to an underneath route and get the offense in more manageable down and distance.

 

He also said there were times that Josh went to Foster and overlooked other routes simply because rookie QBs tend to lock onto the guy they trust the most so it was just a case of a rookie going to his favorite rookie WR on the team. I felt that he was excited by what he saw in Allen and repeatedly said that he will learn to make those better reads, praised him for his accuracy on many of his throws, then chided him for floating that shallow out that ended in his second pick, and for staring down his intended receiver which brought the safety over for that 1st pick.

 

I think Allen has "it", but I am a Bills fan so doubt is part of my DNA. Perhaps that is why I really enjoyed listening to his thoughts, mirrored a lot of my own, and it was comforting hearing from someone that has spent time with and developed really good NFL QBs talk about Allen as a legit NFL rookie QB who has all the tools and simply needs more time and experience to hone his game.

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19 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'm hopeful and the 2nd bolded text from your post is excuse making. Those are easy yards that anyone can see even from the broadcast view.  He has to take those to make it easier on himself and the offense. 

 

2utoi0l.jpg

 

Exhibit A.  Allen looked to Shady in the flat on this 2nd down play and turned it down to run instead.  This throw has to be made. 

 

Yep.  And 2 plays later he hit McKenzie in the hands for what would have been a 1st down and McKenzie dropped it.

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6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yep.  And 2 plays later he hit McKenzie in the hands for what would have been a 1st down and McKenzie dropped it.

 

That was the next play after.  The point still remains. 

 

fk1xrs.jpg

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28 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

There was one real positive of watching that rather painful game and that was listening to Bruce Arians in the booth making comparisons between Josh Allen and Andrew Luck who he had coached before in Indy.

 

He saw a lot of similarities to their rookie growing pains. He mentioned that Luck used to think he could run people over early in his NFL career, but learned as every QB does to protect themselves. Josh is bigger and faster, but he chuckled and said he was sure the coaches probably do not want him lowering his shoulder and taking on tacklers for extra yards.

 

To me, it seemed there was nothing he wanted to do more than jump down to the sideline and start coaching Allen. You can tell when coaches have the itch. He kept talking like he was on the sidelines, "kid, you don't have to throw a TD pass on every play just take what the defense is giving you". He mentioned that being a "game manager" is kind of looked down on, but there are times when a QB has to be patient and take what the defense is giving you and that is fine as it keeps your defense off the field when you can sustain drives.

 

He was not surprised or very critical, rather just pointed out that these were things that rookie QBs did and that the patience will come with experience. He noted what a lot of us have seen and that is that defenses know that Josh likes to push the ball down the field so their corners and safeties play off our receivers on the underneath routes, but Josh does not like taking the 5-8 yard check down passes that are open and would rather wait for the deeper routes to develop which can lead to protection break downs and broken plays when he could check it down to an underneath route and get the offense in more manageable down and distance.

 

He also said there were times that Josh went to Foster and overlooked other routes simply because rookie QBs tend to lock onto the guy they trust the most so it was just a case of a rookie going to his favorite rookie WR on the team. I felt that he was excited by what he saw in Allen and repeatedly said that he will learn to make those better reads, praised him for his accuracy on many of his throws, then chided him for floating that shallow out that ended in his second pick, and for staring down his intended receiver which brought the safety over for that 1st pick.

 

I think Allen has "it", but I am a Bills fan so doubt is part of my DNA. Perhaps that is why I really enjoyed listening to his thoughts, mirrored a lot of my own, and it was comforting hearing from someone that has spent time with and developed really good NFL QBs talk about Allen as a legit NFL rookie QB who has all the tools and simply needs more time and experience to hone his game.

This was my take as well.  I was very encouraged by Arians comments about Allen and particularly his repeated comparisons to Andrew Luck.  I suspect that Arians does not compare rookie QB's to Luck lightly. 

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17 hours ago, timtebow15 said:

Allen was not bad.  Add those two TD drops and everyone would say he had a great day and the Bills probably win let along stupid Croom fumbling.  I don't know how everyone can't see Allen is leading the worst offense in football.  I feel sorry for the kid.  How many players on the Bills offense would start on most all other teams in the NFL?

Zay and Foster would both start on the Pats right now

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Yes, he does need  to make that check down pass more often and I'm sure he will.  

 

With that said his natural instinct is to make plays down the field and I would rather have that be the tendency and opposed to what we have been plagued with for years, the putrid habit to go to the check down.

 

There are plenty of things for Allen to improve on and despite all the misinformed takes, accuracy IS NOT the main issue he has.  

 

Decision making, knowing when to make a touch pass and when to rifle it and experience is what he needs most along with a constant emphasis on his mechanics.

 

I'm pretty confident he will achieve these things

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19 hours ago, row_33 said:

I can sit at the poker table and hold some quiet confidence when they mock the Bills

 

 

This describes the feeling I have very well. 

200.gif

 

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20 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I thought Josh played a fine game. Some of our ball catchers need to bring their A game to the table if you ask me. Charles Clay was hardly missed and Crooms had the critical fumble. Now I don't lament Crooms for putting forth maximum effort but know when to say when.

 

I'm a little worried about the diminutive nature of our receivers because they seem to get knicked up a bit too frequently. Could just be a bad coincidence. I know Beane will have a fresh fleet for Josh in 2019. Allens is making lemon out of lemonade but I suppose the numbers crowd have some gripes with his performance.

 

The Crooms fumble reminded me quite a bit of a Scott Chandler fumble many moons ago. He was also putting forth maximum effort but he coughed it up in similar fashion.

 

Give the young man an arsenal and the sky is the limit!

You said it mister. Manuel was a good off field guy and did a heck of a lot for the community as did Edward but I never believed they could compete with the top enchiladas. Allen at the very least provides legitimate hope.

Crooms?

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What is it with woman who don't like football so you have the watch elsewhere?  lol I guess it's just me but sundays football day, we can compromise outside of the 3 hours in a long long week full of other hours.

 

outside of that I agree, Allen was the least of our problems vs the pats

Edited by JinxedBill1

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1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That was the next play after.  The point still remains. 

 

fk1xrs.jpg

 

The object is to get 1st downs. Josh did everything he could to convert on that next play and McKenzie blew it. 

 

1 hour ago, Chris66 said:

Zay and Foster would both start on the Pats right now

 

Foster yes. Zay no.  

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