Tremaine Edmunds: He was the worst player on the field Dec 23 (vs NE)

[Bing Bong]

13 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I just can't get down with that line of thinking. You're not gonna blame Beane if Edmunds doesn't pan out because the linebacker class was "considered" a strength? He gets paid to make proper decisions and doesn't get mulligans because draftniks thought it was a great LB class. 

 

It's also prudent to draft premium positions if they grade out similarly to non premium positions. QB's, LT's, WR's, DE's and CB's should always take precedent. That doesn't mean you don't draft a guard or a safety if they happen to be superior 95% prospects. I'm sure the Colts are happy with their selection of Nelson. Nevertheless, it makes fiscal sense to get players at premium positions on rookie contracts.

As Bill Tobin famously said "who the hell is Mel Kiper?! He's no more credentialed than my neighbor who's a postman."

Edited December 28, 2018 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, mead107 said:

So, did we decide who was the worst?

 

You came up several times, but I defended you.   ?

[Bing Bong]

22 minutes ago, mead107 said:

So, did we decide who was the worst?

Oughta put it to a poll haha from the OPs sounds like Star and Edmunds are neck and neck. No comment

 

I'll just say if they're both arguably the worst on the defense then we're looking at an automatic loss given zero run defense.. which was basically how the Patriots game went.. so it doesn't matter Meade. We didn't do too good.

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You came up several times, but I defended you.   ?

oh yeah Mead was definitely the worst on the field. That's a given regarding this discussion.

[The Now Moment]

4 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Oughta put it to a poll haha from the OPs sounds like Star and Edmunds are neck and neck. No comment

 

I'll just say if they're both arguably the worst on the defense then we're looking at an automatic loss given zero run defense.. which was basically how the Patriots game went.. so it doesn't matter Meade. We didn't do too good.

Missing Milano has made a major difference.  He has stopped the run really well all year long.  I'm sure Edmunds misses him too.  

[mead107]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You came up several times, but I defended you.   ?

I’m on the hit list.?.   Been on it going back to 2004. 

[Bing Bong]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Missing Milano has made a major difference.  He has stopped the run really well all year long.  I'm sure Edmunds misses him too.  

Milano Hyde Poyer and White are the guys I'll hang my hat on going into next year. They need help. Be it from Edmunds or DL stepping up. But that corp pass defense should be gravy provided competence in the running game.

[The Now Moment]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Well.......in perspective the Ravens are just 9-6........if they lose this weekend they are probably out of the playoffs again so not really what I mean by "winning big".

 

Defense can still win a championship but it has to be a suffocating pass defense...........like Seattle or Denver.

 

Baltimore has the pass rush and they have invested in those CB's but it's going to be a tough row to hoe winning 3 games and 2 on the road.    

 

You really think Baltimore is going to win the SB?

 

As for the running game...........RB's are still available all over the draft and they are pretty replaceable.

The Chicago Bears are a really young team as well with an average offense and made the Rams top 3 offense look like a pop warner squad.  They also drafted a linebacker in the first round.  Dominant defense can still beat a top offense.  I don't know why all of the sudden some fans think that they can't.  Smith obviously was more NFL ready but the concept is the same.  Top defenses will always be able get theirs no matter what modern offenses do. Dallas also shut down the Saints offense with great play from their rookie MLB along with other players.  

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

The Chicago Bears are a really young team as well with an average offense and made the Rams top 3 offense look like a pop warner squad.  They also drafted a linebacker in the first round.  Dominant defense can still beat a top offense.  I don't know why all of the sudden some fans think that they can't.  Smith obviously was more NFL ready but the concept is the same.  Top defenses will always be able get theirs no matter what modern offenses do. Dallas also shut down the Saints offense with great play from their rookie MLB along with other players.  

The problem with that rationale is that we don't have an elite defense. We have a good defense. In order to become a Bears like defense, we need more playmakers in the front 7.

[The Now Moment]

10 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Milano Hyde Poyer and White are the guys I'll hang my hat on going into next year. They need help. Be it from Edmunds or DL stepping up. But that corp pass defense should be gravy provided competence in the running game.

The defense certainly isn't there yet.  Just because they were 1st in one category doesn't mean we are the best.  They need more pressure from the line to help force more turnovers and get more sacks.  Chicago is 11-4 with a dominant defense and a second year QB...

[Augie]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

The problem with that rationale is that we don't have an elite defense. We have a good defense. In order to become a Bears like defense, we need more playmakers in the front 7.

 

With DL being such a strength in this draft, and (hopefully) a big step up from Edmunds, it could become a lot of fun. 

 

But let’s face it, without a real NFL offense it’s somewhere between pointless and sad to have a great defense. There has to be a balance. Fingers crossed! 

[The Now Moment]

7 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

The problem with that rationale is that we don't have an elite defense. We have a good defense. In order to become a Bears like defense, we need more playmakers in the front 7.

I didn't say we were there yet.  I just mentioned to another poster, chicago is 11-4 with a second year QB...we absolutely need more pressure on the QB to help create more turnovers.  The process is still in motion.  Rams made a leap in year two with their QB, Philly did as well and now we see Chicago getting in on that action. With the right moves this offseason, we could be added to that list.

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

With DL being such a strength in this draft, and (hopefully) a big step up from Edmunds, it could become a lot of fun. 

 

But let’s face it, without a real NFL offense it’s somewhere between pointless and sad to have a great defense. There has to be a balance. Fingers crossed! 

Uh yeah we need to go offense for the mere fact that games are bearable to watch and Bills aren't the joke of the league through the first half of the season.

 

We were so bad this year I forget.. when every team's in the playoff hunt weeks 1-5 it puts a spotlight on the real dog**** teams until we can disappear into obscurity with the rest of the teams out of playoff contention

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[The Now Moment]

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

With DL being such a strength in this draft, and (hopefully) a big step up from Edmunds, it could become a lot of fun. 

 

But let’s face it, without a real NFL offense it’s somewhere between pointless and sad to have a great defense. There has to be a balance. Fingers crossed! 

Completely agree but I believe they have a decent chance to added talent to both sides of the ball this offseason.  Personally, I like the idea of drafting a top defensive player.  That's where this draft's strengths are.  Unless the top guy on the board is on offense, grab a penetrator.  Kyle Williams could retire.  I believe the offensive line should be addressed mostly through  FA.  Bring some solid veterans around Dawkins and Teller and hopefully it will elevate their games.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Buffalo30

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

Completely agree but I believe they have a decent chance to added talent to both sides of the ball this offseason.  Personally, I like the idea of drafting a top defensive player.  That's what this draft's strengths are.  Unless the top guy on the board is on offense, grab a penetrator.  Kyle Williams could retire.  I believe the offensive line should be addressed mostly through  FA.  Bring some solid veterans around Dawkins and Teller and hopefully it will elevate their games.

 

....and a CB would not surprise. I’m just glad the “experts” here on the board are not running the draft (though there are a few who are actually very knowledgeable). I’m encouraged by last year’s draft. Round 1 was ballsy and has to pan out, but I’m optimistic if we can pull in a similar and deep group of talent. 

[The Now Moment]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

....and a CB would not surprise. I’m just glad the “experts” here on the board are not running the draft (though there are a few who are actually very knowledgeable). I’m encouraged by last year’s draft. Round 1 was ballsy and has to pan out, but I’m optimistic if we can pull in a similar and deep group of talent. 

I love giving Allen some young talent but he also needs veterans.  He has Shady and that's it in terms of veterans and he might not even be here.  The defensive line needs an infusion of youth.  We have the draft picks to add impact players on offense and still draft defense in the first.  I don't think we need to draft an offensive player in the first over a more talented defensive player. Free agency will tell us a lot however.  Can only hope we make a handful of solid offensive moves in FA so we can go into the draft without feeling like we need to hit the panic button.  

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I love giving Allen some young talent but he also needs veterans.  He has Shady and that's it in terms of veterans and he might not even be here.  The defensive line needs an infusion of youth.  We have the draft picks to add impact players on offense and still draft defense in the first.  I don't think we need to draft an offensive player in the first over a more talented defensive player. Free agency will tell us a lot however.  Can only hope we make a handful of solid offensive moves in FA so we can go into the draft without feeling like we need to hit the panic button.  

 

That’s why all these mocks before FA are so pointless. But, of course.....I just can’t help myself! 

[Thurman#1]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:57 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

 

 

Nah.

 

Joe B has him as 7th best on the team last week. And while you've clearly got an iron in the fire, Joe doesn't. I didn't see a great game from him, but most of NE's  running success came to the outside, trying to run away from Lotulelei and Edmunds. He also had that deflection that was almost a turnover.

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-buffalo-bills-all-22-review-week-16-vs-new-england-patriots

 

Belichick is always positive, but where he's specific in his praise he's generally right on target, and he said he saw a lot of improvement in Edmunds as the season went along.

 

He's still young and green but he's improving.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

The problem with that rationale is that we don't have an elite defense. We have a good defense. In order to become a Bears like defense, we need more playmakers in the front 7.

 

 

You're right, we don't have an elite defense.

 

We also don't have a good defense. They're considerably better than that.

 

They're very good. 4th to 6th or 7th, probably. Around in there. And they're young and getting younger. But yeah, you're right they've got a ways to go to be considered elite. They need a bit more of a pass rush from the other side for one thing.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

I didn't see a great game from him, but most of NE's  running success came to the outside, trying to run away from Lotulelei and Edmunds.

 

They did have success running at the outside. They had identified a lack of speed at the outside linebacker positions and knew that they could as a result get to the edge and isolate running backs one on one vs corners and particularly to Wallace's side they liked that match up. However, they did run straight at Edmunds' gap a number of times particularly in that first touchdown drive and unfortunately he was out of position frequently again. His discipline in the run game is really concerning to me. More so even than his play recognition. There are plays where he seems to recognise correctly, start off playing his gap and then get excited and just run to the ball. That is on tape a number of times in a number of games.... he is in his gap, then thinks there is a chance to make a play dashes out right into a blocker who walls him off and creates a hole that the back pops through. Jordan Poyer leads the team in tackles. That it at least in part due to the sub standard MLB play in the run game.

 

I am not as down as Badol on Edmunds' chances of turning it around in 2019. It isn't a certainty that he will by any means, but he did make a massive jump in the same regard in his college film between 2016 and 2017. I think there is a chance that he learns when there are actually plays to be made at the NFL level and when there are not and lane discipline is more important in the long run.

[mannc]

19 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

 

 

As for running back, Saquon Barkley is close to 2,000 yards from scrimmage with 14 touchdowns.  He could be a top three running back over the next ten years, so could Ezekial Elliot.  These guys carry their teams.  They are elite.  You take the best player.  Elite players, no matter the position can make a huge difference.  

 

Avoiding certain positions in the first round is a poor strategy by a GM.  You take the best players that fit what you are trying to do.  Drafting is hard enough because there are so many busts even in the first round.  Taking draft positions off of the board in the first round only decreases your chance of finding an impact player.  

 

 

The Giants might not regret drafting Sequon Barkley, but they should.  He's played very well, as expected, but not substantially better than Chris Carson or Phillip Lindsay, a seventh round pick and an UDFA, respectively.  And we see this kind of thing all the time.  People have mentioned Todd Gurley as an MVP candidate, but the truth is there is very little drop-off between him and Mack Brown.  Hell, CJ Anderson, a guy the Rams picked up off the street, ran for 170 yards for the Rams on Sunday.      

[BigDingus]

Glad we traded even more assets to move up & grab him...

The 2018 draft has the potential to be one of our worst blunders in years if Edmunds & Allen don't pan out.

The amount of draft capital spent on getting those 2 could've netted so many pieces and set us up for years to come. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way, it's just not looking good right now.

[BADOLBILZ]

19 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

The Chicago Bears are a really young team as well with an average offense and made the Rams top 3 offense look like a pop warner squad.  They also drafted a linebacker in the first round.  Dominant defense can still beat a top offense.  I don't know why all of the sudden some fans think that they can't.  Smith obviously was more NFL ready but the concept is the same.  Top defenses will always be able get theirs no matter what modern offenses do. Dallas also shut down the Saints offense with great play from their rookie MLB along with other players.  

 

 

What happened the last two SB's then?

 

I'm not a defense-denier.....the defensive side of the ball has better athletes than ever...........mostly due to so many athletes who would have once been RB's setting up on the D side of the ball in search of that big CB/pass rusher money as teams try desperately to stop opposing passing games...........and the state of offensive lines around the league has never been worse...........but the reality is that the top defenses STILL often don't get theirs in the modern game.

 

Being an offensively driven team is by far your better chance to be consistently competitive.

 

Defense comes and goes quickly and while it's easy to turn a defense around quickly........it's hard to keep it there.

 

As I have said countless times on TSW........the Seahawks were the YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL when they won the SB with that great young defense.......and 3 years later that was  over.   

 

[Aussie Joe]

3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Glad we traded even more assets to move up & grab him...

The 2018 draft has the potential to be one of our worst blunders in years if Edmunds & Allen don't pan out.

The amount of draft capital spent on getting those 2 could've netted so many pieces and set us up for years to come. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way, it's just not looking good right now.

 

I am much more optimistic about the 2017 &  2018 drafts then the half dozen that proceeded them..

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not as down as Badol on Edmunds' chances of turning it around in 2019. It isn't a certainty that he will by any means, but he did make a massive jump in the same regard in his college film between 2016 and 2017. I think there is a chance that he learns when there are actually plays to be made at the NFL level and when there are not and lane discipline is more important in the long run.

 

Yeah we will have to file this in front of Shaq Lawson in the "I hope you're right" file and hope it works out better this time.    We've had a few decent comps of guys who actually improved a lot at MLB in the thread so that's better than none.

 

Having a super tall,  MLB with a 7' wingspan who can make plays all over the field and still get his pads low, avoid and shed blocks and get to the hole and stone RB's in the ground game would be great.    But without that ground game aspect it's like a gimmick that smart teams can attack in a similar way that moving Bryan Scott from safety to LB was back in the Jauron era.    Like a moped is fun to drive until your friends see you on it.......Edmunds is fun to have play MLB until the opponent starts running the football and using play action.  

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah we will have to file this in front of Shaq Lawson in the "I hope you're right" file and hope it works out better this time.    We've had a few decent comps of guys who actually improved a lot at MLB in the thread so that's better than none.

 

Having a super tall,  MLB with a 7' wingspan who can make plays all over the field and still get his pads low, avoid and shed blocks and get to the hole and stone RB's in the ground game would be great.    But without that ground game aspect it's like a gimmick that smart teams can attack in a similar way that moving Bryan Scott from safety to LB was back in the Jauron era.    Like a moped is fun to drive until your friends see you on it.......Edmunds is fun to have play MLB until the opponent starts running the football and using play action.  

 

I completely agree with all your criticisms of Edmunds. I just do think there is a chance for him still on the basis of him making a big jump years 1 to 2 in college. I am not saying he will, but I think there is a chance. 

[The Now Moment]

15 hours ago, mannc said:

The Giants might not regret drafting Sequon Barkley, but they should.  He's played very well, as expected, but not substantially better than Chris Carson or Phillip Lindsay, a seventh round pick and an UDFA, respectively.  And we see this kind of thing all the time.  People have mentioned Todd Gurley as an MVP candidate, but the truth is there is very little drop-off between him and Mack Brown.  Hell, CJ Anderson, a guy the Rams picked up off the street, ran for 170 yards for the Rams on Sunday.      

Disagree.  With Barkley, not only is he a better rusher than the others, he is an impact player in the pass game and a good pass blocker.  It's not just about the rushing what they do in the rushing game.  Running back's duties have evolved as the game has and Barkley does it better than almost anyone.  Barkley will likely end the season with over 700 yards receiving and at least 4 TDs.  He is also reliable in pass protection.  Having a player that can be that impactful in the pass game makes it much easier on a QB.  Lindsay and Carson have been very good but by no means reach the impact that Barkley has.  You could see him reach over 1,000 yards receiving in a season a few times in his career.

[The Now Moment]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What happened the last two SB's then?

 

I'm not a defense-denier.....the defensive side of the ball has better athletes than ever...........mostly due to so many athletes who would have once been RB's setting up on the D side of the ball in search of that big CB/pass rusher money as teams try desperately to stop opposing passing games...........and the state of offensive lines around the league has never been worse...........but the reality is that the top defenses STILL often don't get theirs in the modern game.

 

Being an offensively driven team is by far your better chance to be consistently competitive.

 

Defense comes and goes quickly and while it's easy to turn a defense around quickly........it's hard to keep it there.

 

As I have said countless times on TSW........the Seahawks were the YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL when they won the SB with that great young defense.......and 3 years later that was  over.   

 

Seattle's worst record since 2012 is 9-7.  They have built a team that has had long term success. They still have a solid defense.  I never said that you shouldn't have any offense.  Of course you NEED offense.  I was simply pointing out that a team with a better defense than offense can still win.  You need to have a good balance IMO.  Look at the Saints who have always had a good offense but the defense hasn't been there until this year.  All of the sudden we are talking about Drew Brees maybe winning MVP but the last three years without a defense they couldn't get past 7-9.

 

Did I miss something?  The Patriots had a top 5 defense the last two seasons in terms of points against including 1st in 2016.  The Eagles had a top 5 defense last year.  Their defense helped them get to the super bowl and they won.  Atlanta the year before was one of the worst defenses and in the super bowl, they proved it.  You need a balance.  

 

A young Qb's best friend is a solid running game and a solid defense.  It keeps you in games and allows the young QBs to make mistakes.  It takes the pressure off off.   If you rely on the offense to win every game with a young QB, it's likely not going to happen. 

 

They want Allen, just like Chicago wants Trubisky, the Rams want Goff and the Eagles want Wentz to be the future of their respective team's but these guys aren't going to be Tom Brady coming out into the league.  You have to support them.  

 

McDermott said himself that he wants to have an offensive juggernaut but Allen needs to develop to get to that point.  Obviously we need more around him but working on the defense and run game now is also important so we don't have to rely on him like we have this year to do everything for us.  Hopefully with the assets we have, this team will make a big stride forward next year on all three sides of the ball.  Gotta have better special teams play too.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Buffalo30

[dabills21]

what?!!!!

 

1 handed pick.... oh ok

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Ha ha.   

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Ha ha.   

A good play in Miami means he didn’t suck last week.

[dabills21]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

A good play in Miami means he didn’t suck last week.

cool keep living in the past

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

A good play in Miami means he didn’t suck last week.

In Miami?

 

 

[Boca BIlls]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

A good play in Miami means he didn’t suck last week.

You are the one who went on to talk about more then last week in your OP.

[DJB]

Good start.  Hopefully he can build on it

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

cool keep living in the past

Uh, I didn’t bump the thread. 

[dabills21]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Uh, I didn’t bump the thread. 

I called out a great play...get over it

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, dabills21 said:

I called out a great play...get over it

Sounds like you’re upset. It was a good play bud. It’s just a game.

[dabills21]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Sounds like you’re upset. It was a good play bud. It’s just a game.

I'm thrilled man! fantastic play.... you called out the game from last week, not me..

 

Go bills!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Confusing title with Miami game today, 

Game day discussion in the game day thread please, Gents

I’ll unlock this after the game

[34-78-83]

A very encouraging game of redemption for young Mr. Edmunds today! He was notably more physical today and not as hesitant on reads. Wrapped up well and used the wingspan at times.