I Never Thought I'd Miss Vlad Ducasse and Other Surprising Thoughts

[The Frankish Reich]

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings. 

 

2. I had searched for a comparable to Josh Allen. Kaepernick came to mind, and there's still something there: rocket arm, athleticism at the far (good) end of the bell curve, flat-out running talent. But an astute poster here (we do have them!) reminded me that much of Kaep's running success came off of designed read options (remember when that was the trend?). So I thought again. Early Randall Cunningham? That seems like a pretty good one - much of his running success came off broken down plays and scrambles, just like Allen. But for those of a certain vintage ... my best comp is Bobby Douglass. (And no, this is not, if they have similar career arcs, a good thing).  Big kid, cannon arm (although a lefty), amazing running talent - almost went for 1,000 yards one year, almost all off of scrambles rather than designed plays. He never learned to read NFL defenses, so let's hope Allen is different. But right now (that is, about half a season into Allen's career!), that's my best comp. I loved watching him as a kid. He was a highlight waiting to happen on every snap ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DougBo00.htm

 

3. LeSean McCoy is done as an effective every down back. This is how it always happens. A sharp decline in productivity. It's always blamed on lack of something around him - the line, other weapons, the QB, whatever. And then there's the injuries that just don't seem to heal like they used to. And the denial: just make the line better (yes, and I did just mention that better LG play would help), just let him heal, just get some other weapons around him, he'll be back. But don't bank on it. I think he as 2-3 years left as a situational back, mostly on passing downs, but it's time to move on as far as looking for a back who can carry a heavy load.

[formerlyofCtown]

16 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings. 

 

2. I had searched for a comparable to Josh Allen. Kaepernick came to mind, and there's still something there: rocket arm, athleticism at the far (good) end of the bell curve, flat-out running talent. But an astute poster here (we do have them!) reminded me that much of Kaep's running success came off of designed read options (remember when that was the trend?). So I thought again. Early Randall Cunningham? That seems like a pretty good one - much of his running success came off broken down plays and scrambles, just like Allen. But for those of a certain vintage ... my best comp is Bobby Douglass. (And no, this is not, if they have similar career arcs, a good thing).  Big kid, cannon arm (although a lefty), amazing running talent - almost went for 1,000 yards one year, almost all off of scrambles rather than designed plays. He never learned to read NFL defenses, so let's hope Allen is different. But right now (that is, about half a season into Allen's career!), that's my best comp. I loved watching him as a kid. He was a highlight waiting to happen on every snap ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DougBo00.htm

 

3. LeSean McCoy is done as an effective every down back. This is how it always happens. A sharp decline in productivity. It's always blamed on lack of something around him - the line, other weapons, the QB, whatever. And then there's the injuries that just don't seem to heal like they used to. And the denial: just make the line better (yes, and I did just mention that better LG play would help), just let him heal, just get some other weapons around him, he'll be back. But don't bank on it. I think he as 2-3 years left as a situational back, mostly on passing downs, but it's time to move on as far as looking for a back who can carry a heavy load.

I was against trading him to Philly.  Now I wish we did.  Of coarse the same was said about AP.  So who knows.  On to next year.

[Bing Bong]

Teller suuuuuucks

[RoyBatty is alive]

1) I dont miss Vlad, yeah Teller is slow  and makes some rookie mental errors but time to move on from Vlad.

 

2) Allen and his running si, imo, way too early to tell if this is the type of QB he is going to be.  I want to see how New England schemes against him, he runs for 100 versus them then I might start getting convinced.  I think Cam Newton is a very good comp to Allen.

 

3) I agree on McCoy, sad but reality.

[CuddyDark]

37 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

2. I had searched for a comparable to Josh Allen. Kaepernick came to mind, and there's still something there: rocket arm, athleticism at the far (good) end of the bell curve, flat-out running talent. But an astute poster here (we do have them!) reminded me that much of Kaep's running success came off of designed read options (remember when that was the trend?). So I thought again. Early Randall Cunningham? That seems like a pretty good one - much of his running success came off broken down plays and scrambles, just like Allen. But for those of a certain vintage ... my best comp is Bobby Douglass. (And no, this is not, if they have similar career arcs, a good thing).  Big kid, cannon arm (although a lefty), amazing running talent - almost went for 1,000 yards one year, almost all off of scrambles rather than designed plays. He never learned to read NFL defenses, so let's hope Allen is different. But right now (that is, about half a season into Allen's career!), that's my best comp. I loved watching him as a kid. He was a highlight waiting to happen on every snap ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DougBo00.htm

 

He is interesting as a player. I never seen Bobby Douglass but I would say he's like a lot of players I did see. Early Steve Young. Early Steve McNair. JA is like a combination of several players. I don't think there has ever been a player exactly like him. I do think his best comp is Kaepernick, but I think JA is stronger and while not faster I think JA is a better athlete. It will be interesting to see what he becomes and what they can do with him. If they're smart enough to do something with him.

 

Looking at him I would have like if the sat him for a year. Not because of his readiness but because they could have come out with a better team and a surprise QB and made a run like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. JA talent is that good that they could have made a SB run with him in a RPO offense. Now teams know what he is so even with better talent next year they'll have tape on him. In theory anyway.

Edited December 11, 2018 by CuddyDark

[SoTier]

10 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Teller suuuuuucks

 

I thought he was suppose to be the second coming of Reggie McKenzie of Electric Company fame ... oops.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

He is interesting as a player. I never seen Bobby Douglass but I would say he's like a lot of players I did see. Early Steve Young. Early Steve McNair. JA is like a combination of several players. I don't think there has ever been a player exactly like him. I do think his best comp is Kaepernick, but I think JA is stronger and while not faster I think JA is a better athlete. It will be interesting to see what he becomes and what they can do with him. If they're smart enough to do something with him.

 

Looking at him I would have like if the sat him for a year. Not because of his readiness but because they could have come out with a better team and a surprise QB and made a run like the 49ers did with Kaepernick. JA talent is that good that they could have made a SB run with him in a RPO offense. Now teams know what he is so even with better talent next year they'll have tape on him. In theory anyway.

 

I agree there has never been a player quite like JA.  FIrst one could make the argument that Josh Allen has the strongest arm ever, certainly based on velocity.  The Kaepernick comparison imo fails because he got his running yards on designed plays and read option, JA gets most of his yards on broken/extending plays.

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I agree there has never been a player quite like JA.  FIrst one could make the argument that Josh Allen has the strongest arm ever, certainly based on velocity.  The Kaepernick comparison imo fails because he got his running yards on designed plays and read option, JA gets most of his yards on broken/extending plays.

Bills ran QB draw with him this season. They probably should run more options plays with him, it would help their run game.

[26CornerBlitz]

There's zero reason to miss Vlad the Impostor.  He simply isn't good enough as the Bills move forward and they might as well give Teller every opportunity to gain experience at the LG position while seeing what he could be as a player.

 

Shady has been unable to get on track this season with the trifecta of poor blocking by the OL, him trying to do too much, and being nicked up.  We'll really see what he has left next season (assuming he's back) with a better line and/or scheme for the running game. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings. 

 

3. LeSean McCoy is done as an effective every down back. This is how it always happens. A sharp decline in productivity. It's always blamed on lack of something around him - the line, other weapons, the QB, whatever. And then there's the injuries that just don't seem to heal like they used to. And the denial: just make the line better (yes, and I did just mention that better LG play would help), just let him heal, just get some other weapons around him, he'll be back. But don't bank on it. I think he as 2-3 years left as a situational back, mostly on passing downs, but it's time to move on as far as looking for a back who can carry a heavy load.

 

You can't have it both ways... you address our obvious offensive line troubles, and yet it's Shady's fault for a sharp decline in productivity??? No, sorry, not buying. Our running game is broken as the article states, and we just need the blocking. Wood and Incognito obviously made a huge difference. We should have traded him earlier, because he won't be able to be nearly as effective in 2 years due to age once we fix our line. He deserves better at this point as the clock is ticking.

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You can't have it both ways... you address our obvious offensive line troubles, and yet it's Shady's fault for a sharp decline in productivity??? No, sorry, not buying. Our running game is broken as the article states, and we just need the blocking. Wood and Incognito obviously made a huge difference. We should have traded him earlier, because he won't be able to be nearly as effective in 2 years due to age once we fix our line. He deserves better at this point as the clock is ticking.

I agree. So many fans are forgetting that first Jets game when he was 100% healthy and he rushed for 113 yards, 2 TDs. The run game is broken as it went from #1 in the NFL in 2016 in yards per rush attempt to #14 last year under Castillo and now to #17. It would be 24th without Josh Allen running. 

 

If this Bills FO is worth a damn fixing the O line should be the priority as it will correct so many problems. The entire line needs a makeover along with a new line coach. If McD refuses to change assistants he deserves to go too. Regardless of the loss of talent that line is one of the very worst the Buffalo Bills have ever fielded and with starting two rookie QBs no less.

 

The only reason the Allen doesn't look more like Peterman is because of his athletic ability with his cannon arm, and mobility to escape the pocket when it breaks down. It doesn't help when you have an OC calling for a lot of mid to deep passes that require 5-7 step drop backs (those usually equal three to five seconds to complete) with a line that won't even allow a two seconds or under drop back at times. 

 

McD has the right idea to run the ball and play great defense, he just doesn't have the right offensive coaches.

[SCBills]

I think Shady could quiet his critics next year, provided we bring in expected OL help in the offseason.

 

That being said, it's very frustrating that he can't get us the 2-3 yards Ivory gets us on similar runs.  Big difference between 2nd and 7 vs 2nd and 11.

[Happy]

22 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

McD has the right idea to run the ball and play great defense, he just doesn't have the right offensive coaches.

 

In your opinion, does this include Daboll?

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings. 

 

2. I had searched for a comparable to Josh Allen. Kaepernick came to mind, and there's still something there: rocket arm, athleticism at the far (good) end of the bell curve, flat-out running talent. But an astute poster here (we do have them!) reminded me that much of Kaep's running success came off of designed read options (remember when that was the trend?). So I thought again. Early Randall Cunningham? That seems like a pretty good one - much of his running success came off broken down plays and scrambles, just like Allen. But for those of a certain vintage ... my best comp is Bobby Douglass. (And no, this is not, if they have similar career arcs, a good thing).  Big kid, cannon arm (although a lefty), amazing running talent - almost went for 1,000 yards one year, almost all off of scrambles rather than designed plays. He never learned to read NFL defenses, so let's hope Allen is different. But right now (that is, about half a season into Allen's career!), that's my best comp. I loved watching him as a kid. He was a highlight waiting to happen on every snap ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DougBo00.htm

 

3. LeSean McCoy is done as an effective every down back. This is how it always happens. A sharp decline in productivity. It's always blamed on lack of something around him - the line, other weapons, the QB, whatever. And then there's the injuries that just don't seem to heal like they used to. And the denial: just make the line better (yes, and I did just mention that better LG play would help), just let him heal, just get some other weapons around him, he'll be back. But don't bank on it. I think he as 2-3 years left as a situational back, mostly on passing downs, but it's time to move on as far as looking for a back who can carry a heavy load.

 

Never watched Douglass play but I watched a clip they made of him and it was pretty amazing...he kind of looks like Josh Allen even...

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Never watched Douglass play but I watched a clip they made of him and it was pretty amazing...he kind of looks like Josh Allen even...

 

 

 

Douglass was a horrible passer.

[John from Riverside]

I need to go back and watch Teller's play today on game pass.....I did not feel that he had a good game against Miami and said as much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings.

 

Except....Shady's best rush game of the season, the first meeting with the Jets, featured Teller getting 100% of the snaps

Whereas some of our worst rushing games of the season featured Ducasse 100%

 

Just saying, I think there may be more to it than that.

 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

There's zero reason to miss Vlad the Impostor.  He simply isn't good enough as the Bills move forward and they might as well give Teller every opportunity to gain experience at the LG position while seeing what he could be as a player.

 

Shady has been unable to get on track this season with the trifecta of poor blocking by the OL, him trying to do too much, and being nicked up.  We'll really see what he has left next season (assuming he's back) with a better line and/or scheme for the running game. 

If I read it correctly this is the off-season to let him go. The cap hit isn't bad, so I don't think he's a Bill next year. I was all for the trade back to Philly, by the way. Maybe go after L. Bell?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Dopey said:

If I read it correctly this is the off-season to let him go. The cap hit isn't bad, so I don't think he's a Bill next year. I was all for the trade back to Philly, by the way. Maybe go after L. Bell?

 

Beane and McDermott said he's in the plans for 2019, but I suppose that's subject to change. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Teller suuuuuucks

 

...yup...that would be a typical, in depth TBD analysis..............

 

Teller:  rookie    5th round pick     Games Played: 5      Games Started: 4

 

Ducasse:  9th season    2nd round pick     Games Played: 111    Games Started: 51

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Beane and McDermott said he's in the plans for 2019, but I suppose that's subject to change. 

I really hope not. His style requires a line that has jelled and get's him 2 or 3 yds before being touched(Zeke). We need someone who hits the hole, or at least where the hole is supposed to be. 1-2 yds is  better than a 2 yd loss because he didn't go straight at it. JMO.

[Bing Bong]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...yup...that would be a typical, in depth TBD analysis..............

 

Teller:  rookie    5th round pick     Games Played: 5      Games Started: 4

 

Ducasse:  9th season    2nd round pick     Games Played: 111    Games Started: 51

So being a 5th round rookie means he doesn't suck? Can they not both suck regardless of the figures you just listed that literally have nothing to do with their play?

 

are you showing me in depth analysis with draft position and experience in the NFL?

Edited December 11, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Beane and McDermott said he's in the plans for 2019, but I suppose that's subject to change. 

 

 

...I believe they wanted to say, " he's in our plans for now in 2019, but that's subject to change without notice".............

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Douglass was a horrible passer.

Yeah I agree...but as a runner he looks very similar to Allen and has the same type of speed...Douglass claimed to have thrown the ball 90 yards in practice routinely and said he thinks he could have thrown it 100 yards with the right conditions and a perfect throw

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

So being a 5th round rookie means he doesn't suck? Can they not both suck regardless of the figures you just listed that literally have nothing to do with their play?

 

..of course...you're right.....FIVE games surely is a CAREER by TBD definition...seriously?.....SMH......

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..of course...you're right.....FIVE games surely is a CAREER by TBD definition...seriously?.....SMH......

he just sucks.. right now. I don't know the future. He's not playing well.. right now. He's been bad in 5 games.  

 

JA's playing decent. Right now.

Edited December 11, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Coach Tuesday]

Teller has been inconsistent but he's not the issue - John Miller is.  His performance on Sunday - which made me so irate in my drunkenness that I deservedly incurred a warning point - was one of the worst performances by an offensive lineman I've ever seen.  He was the worst player on the field against the Jets.  I wouldn't be surprised if he gets deactivated this weekend.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

Yeah I agree...but as a runner he looks very similar to Allen and has the same type of speed...Douglass claimed to have thrown the ball 90 yards in practice routinely and said he thinks he could have thrown it 100 yards with the right conditions and a perfect throw

 

He was a big athletic powerful guy who was essentially a RB playing QB.  I remember rooting for him to gain 1000 yards rushing with the Bears when he came up just short at 968.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

he just sucks.. right now. I don't know the future. He's not playing well.. right now. He's been bad in 5 games.  

 

JA's playing decent. Right now.

Teller has NOT been bad in 5 games.....or you dont know anything about OL play one or the other

[Bing Bong]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

 Teller has NOT been bad in 5 games.....or you dont know anything about OL play one or the other

I don't know much about OL play no.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I don't know much about OL play no.

OK....so Teller actually started quite strong.....then in the Miami game I thought he was not sustaining his blocks well and his assignments were getting in on the plays.

 

I have not focused on the last game to comment on his play but Teller was a guy I have high hopes for.

 

I do know that Center and the other Guard spot are absolutely horrible.......Dawkins is also underwhelming at LT and frankly belongs at LG

 

Mills is and has always been under average

[Stank_Nasty]

I begrudgingly admit shady has obviously lost a step..... but does anyone remember a couple of years ago when gurley was coming off a productive season and had to deal with an offense with a rookie qb, and no weapons on the outside?

 

funny what changing those can do to free a guy up...… but ya. i'll still admit he may just be done.

[John from Riverside]

I just have a hard time begrudging Shady when NONE of our running backs are playing well.....

[Bing Bong]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OK....so Teller actually started quite strong.....then in the Miami game I thought he was not sustaining his blocks well and his assignments were getting in on the plays.

 

I have not focused on the last game to comment on his play but Teller was a guy I have high hopes for.

 

I do know that Center and the other Guard spot are absolutely horrible.......Dawkins is also underwhelming at LT and frankly belongs at LG

 

Mills is and has always been under average

Thanks. I have a bad habit of lumping the whole interior O Line unit as 1 performance. But it does sound like the C and Miller are the worst of that unit. It's just seemed like I'm constantly hearing Teller's name called for holding and what not. On big plays no less.

 

I think it's easier to get a guage of the tackles. I think Mills gets beat up here a lot but he is what he is. A stopgap vet.. that you shouldn't count on to shore up against the better pass rushers. The interior seems more codependent on each other's play correct?

Edited December 11, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[John from Riverside]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Thanks. I have a bad habit of lumping the whole interior O Line unit as 1 performance. But it does sound like the C and Miller are the worst of that unit. It's just seemed like I'm constantly hearing Teller's name called for holding and what not. On big plays no less.

 

I think it's easier to get a guage of the tackles. The interior seems more codependent on each other's play correct?

Yes.....and you need your vet OL to play well to help out the rooks

 

Unfortunately......we lost our 2 most veteran guys before the season......and when Bodine going down is a big deal you know you have problems.

 

I have no idea what happened to Groy.....he actually looked servicable before this year which is kinda points to even bigger problems (coaching)

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I have no idea what happened to Groy.....he actually looked servicable before this year which is kinda points to even bigger problems (coaching)

He did but I chalked it up to limited exposure to knowing him in the first place, and being surrounded by better parts. I liked the old O Line coach but I don't know how much to pin on the new guy with what he's working with vs what we had before

[John from Riverside]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

He did but I chalked it up to limited exposure to knowing him in the first place, and being surrounded by better parts. I liked the old O Line coach but I don't know how much to pin on the new guy with what he's working with vs what we had before

These guys cannot block for screens and are resulting to cut blocks (which they are not even doing correctly) because they actually cannot get downfield and block)  the OL is so bad nobody really even knows how bad.   They need OL that actually fit the blocking scheme they are trying to employ and the only guys that have are Dawkins and maybe Teller who can even do it.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

1. Right now, Vlad Ducasse is a better LG than Wyatt Teller. I know Teller is a power lifter, is younger, has more upside ... but he's awfully slow, and the run game actually misses the modicum of pulling guard athleticism Ducasse brings. 

 

2. I had searched for a comparable to Josh Allen. Kaepernick came to mind, and there's still something there: rocket arm, athleticism at the far (good) end of the bell curve, flat-out running talent. But an astute poster here (we do have them!) reminded me that much of Kaep's running success came off of designed read options (remember when that was the trend?). So I thought again. Early Randall Cunningham? That seems like a pretty good one - much of his running success came off broken down plays and scrambles, just like Allen. But for those of a certain vintage ... my best comp is Bobby Douglass. (And no, this is not, if they have similar career arcs, a good thing).  Big kid, cannon arm (although a lefty), amazing running talent - almost went for 1,000 yards one year, almost all off of scrambles rather than designed plays. He never learned to read NFL defenses, so let's hope Allen is different. But right now (that is, about half a season into Allen's career!), that's my best comp. I loved watching him as a kid. He was a highlight waiting to happen on every snap ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DougBo00.htm

 

3. LeSean McCoy is done as an effective every down back. This is how it always happens. A sharp decline in productivity. It's always blamed on lack of something around him - the line, other weapons, the QB, whatever. And then there's the injuries that just don't seem to heal like they used to. And the denial: just make the line better (yes, and I did just mention that better LG play would help), just let him heal, just get some other weapons around him, he'll be back. But don't bank on it. I think he as 2-3 years left as a situational back, mostly on passing downs, but it's time to move on as far as looking for a back who can carry a heavy load.

 

1.  Ducasse has proven he is inadequate at LG as a starter.  Teller is not much better as of now.  He may improve into an adequate starter but

there is no way to know that this year.  Many people think ALL players improve given more time but that is not the case.  Once teams get "tape" on

players (especially OL) weaknesses are found and can be exploited.  I feel this has happened to Dawkins somewhat this year.

 

Miller is as bad or worse at RG.  BOTH LG and RG need upgrades in the off season.

 

2.  Allen is a work in progress and time will tell how good or bad he will be.  I see a lot of positives but I need to see him behind an at least serviceable OL.

 

3.  McCoy is getting old, that's just a fact.  Does he have another good year in him?  That is going to be a big question that Beane/McDermott have to

ask during the offseason.  I can see it going either way.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

He did but I chalked it up to limited exposure to knowing him in the first place, and being surrounded by better parts. I liked the old O Line coach but I don't know how much to pin on the new guy with what he's working with vs what we had before

 

Yep.  Some poster had him as a perennial pro bowler going into the season.  I got shouted down when I wanted one of the very good Centers that were available

in last years FA.

Coaching is such a hard thing for fans to judge.  We don't know what is said behind closed doors.  Maybe Castillo was screaming for better talent.

If that was true it's hard to blame him.  If on the other hand he claimed the talent was good enough and he could make a decent unit out of the players

he had then it's all on him.  Being there will be a huge turnover in players on the OL this coming year.....it's a good time to change OL coaches.

[Bing Bong]

17 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Yep.  Some poster had him as a perennial pro bowler going into the season.  I got shouted down when I wanted one of the very good Centers that were available

in last years FA.

Some posters think any given player is a perennial All-Pro at any given time if they wear a Bills jersey haha