Is Josh Allen your QB?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Now that the playoffs are finally out of reach.  Here is what I want to see with the development of Allen.

 

1. Focus on the short game.  Quick outs, side screens, RB Flares, TE Digs, etc.  Dabol must stay disciplined in calling these because they were working early in the game.  Practice, Practice, and Practice these plays.

 

2.  Throw in a few more deep shots to get timing and catchable balls down with the speed guys.   Learn how to draw pass interference penalties if the pass can't be caught.  With Allen's arm, he can throw 50+ yards on a three step drop with loft on the ball and let the receiver out sprint the DB to the spot (or try and draw a PI).

 

3.  Lastly,  focus on the short game.  Quick outs, side screens, RB Flares, TE Digs, etc.   Practice, Practice, and Practice these plays.

 

Allen's middle game is solid, especially when he has time to throw.  It's the short and long game that needs work and constant repetition.  Wins and losses shouldn't really matter anymore.  These are live practice reps for the next three weeks - work on the things that need to most improved.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[BillsMafia13]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

His scouting reports are exactly as advertised.

 

Pros - huge arm, elite mobility, extremely strong and tough, capable of making throws 95% of NFL QBs can't make. 

 

Cons - misses dump offs and easy throws, leaves pocket too early, too much hero blood throwing balls into danger, completes a very low percentage of his passes. 

 

He'll get another year, but if his QB Rating isn't in at least the high 80s next year with an improved supporting cast, I hope the Bills explore other options in 2020. 

He is still raw, has garbage options to throw to, and has an awful O line.  With at least moderate coaching, a decent line, and getting comfortable going from 2 years at Wyoming to the pros the game will slow down for him. He was thrown in to the worst situations for his point in development, once the game slows down even a little his drive is going to jump by leaps and bounds.  You need to give him more credit

[CincyBillsFan]

Living down here in Cincinnati I'm fortunately spared the piss poor "expert" coverage of the Western NY sports media.  Reading the stories this morning on the news feed here at Two Bills Drive was enough to make me nauseous.  To be clear, I expect fair and constructive criticism of this team - particularly the QB.  But the stuff I read this morning was over the top!  There were a lot of reasons the Bills lost yesterday but Allen regressing was about 5th on the list. 

 

These writers/reporters pay lip service to all the holes in the Bills offense, from the O-line to the absence of any skill player who strikes fear in the opposing team but they don't take the time to add up 2 + 2 = 4.  They cry about Allen and his horrible passing as if he's playing QB in isolation. The reason Allen struggled AT TIMES yesterday in the passing game had more to do with the surrounding talent then Allen.  Sure Allen had a terrible throw on his 1st INT but his second INT was a pedestrian NFL play in which the QB is picked off late in the game.  You see that kind of INT multiple times ALMOST EVERY FREAKING WEEK in the NFL.  Last night the Bears defense was all over the Rams and Goof threw 3 bad INT's.  That's what happens when the pass rush is all over your QB.  Throw in the other clear deficiencies and it's a wonder the Bills generated enough offense to be in a position to win the game.

 

I get that we fans are going to be crazy at times.  Our expectations will go up and down like a balloon - soaring after a good game and being deflated after a poor game.  We're fans that's what we do.  But what's the excuse for these guys?  They are paid "professionals" and frankly I think the average poster on two Bills Drive offers more accurate insight then the whole lot of the Western New York sports writers.

 

And while I'm on my rant, some of these sports writers are the most pessimistic people I have ever seen.  My goodness they're like that cartoon character with the cloud hanging over his head.  I don't want cheer leading about Allen from these guys but what we get instead is the polar opposite which is much worse. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

56 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Can you make the usernames public, please?

I always make my polls public

 

11 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Living down here in Cincinnati I'm fortunately spared the piss poor "expert" coverage of the Western NY sports media.  Reading the stories this morning on the news feed here at Two Bills Drive was enough to make me nauseous.  To be clear, I expect fair and constructive criticism of this team - particularly the QB.  But the stuff I read this morning was over the top!  There were a lot of reasons the Bills lost yesterday but Allen regressing was about 5th on the list. 

 

bitching must make them feel better.

 

The second they handed over the reigns to Josh I put my expectations as any W was a bonus. 

 

The O Line is in question,  WR depth is in question,  TE depth is in question, RB depth is in question,  not to mention the constant threads of - Is Shady done.

 

Funny I'd bet a good # of those that predicted 4-12 are complaining the most 

Edited December 10, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[thebandit27]

There's a fair point that a number of folks are making in this thread that I think deserves more discussion: right now, Allen is the team's ENTIRE offense.

 

I mean, nobody else is creating offense consistently.  It's him all by himself, with an occasional flash play for Isaiah McKenzie on a gimmick run.

 

Consider that he's 3-5 as a starter (with the potential that he'd be 4-4 had he finished the Houston game) playing offense all by himself, and I think one might lean harder in one direction than the other.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

There's a fair point that a number of folks are making in this thread that I think deserves more discussion: right now, Allen is the team's ENTIRE offense.

 

I mean, nobody else is creating offense consistently.  It's him all by himself, with an occasional flash play for Isaiah McKenzie on a gimmick run.

 

Consider that he's 3-5 as a starter (with the potential that he'd be 4-4 had he finished the Houston game) playing offense all by himself, and I think one might lean harder in one direction than the other.

Bad things will happen if it keeps up.  

 

[jrober38]

26 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

He is still raw, has garbage options to throw to, and has an awful O line.  With at least moderate coaching, a decent line, and getting comfortable going from 2 years at Wyoming to the pros the game will slow down for him. He was thrown in to the worst situations for his point in development, once the game slows down even a little his drive is going to jump by leaps and bounds.  You need to give him more credit

 

Excuses aren't going to help him.

 

He has opportunities to make plays and he misses too many easy throws. He needs to clean those up if he's going to last as a starting QB in the NFL. 

 

This year he hasn't shown much as a passer. He's a good thrower who makes some amazing throws, but manipulating coverages with the ball and putting the ball in positions where his guys can easily run after the catch hasn't been consistent. 

 

Next year he'll have a better supporting cast. I think he needs to get his QB Rating up into the high 80s. If he can't do that then we should be considering other options for 2020 and beginning to think about hedging at the QB position by bringing in other options. 

 

2019 will be a make or break year for Allen, and likely the FO and Coaching Staff. 

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[BillsMafia13]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Excuses aren't going to help him.

 

He has opportunities to make plays and he misses too many easy throws. He needs to clean those up if he's going to last as a starting QB in the NFL. 

 

This year he hasn't shown much as a passer. He's a good thrower who makes some amazing throws, but manipulating coverages with the ball and putting the ball in positions where his guys can easily run after the catch hasn't been consistent. 

 

Next year he'll have a better supporting cast. I think he needs to get his QB Rating up into the high 80s. If he can't do that then we should be considering other options for 2020 and beginning to think about hedging at the QB position by bringing in other options. 

 

2019 will be a make or break year for Allen, and likely the FO and Coaching Staff. 

Not an excuse, anyone who follows football knew what we were getting with him. What I think nobody saw was his drive and passion which will take him further than expected. You shut the book on him but conventionality  lean on " but well see in 2019".  Did you watch the game yesterday or are you just reading the box score?

[jrober38]

Just now, BillsMafia13 said:

Not an excuse, anyone who follows football knew what we were getting with him. What I think nobody saw was his drive and passion which will take him further than expected. You shut the book on him but conventionality  lean on " but well see in 2019".  Did you watch the game yesterday or are you just reading the box score?

 

I was at the game.

 

His protection wasn't good, his receivers dropped a couple passes, but he also left several throws on the field with poorly thrown balls that weren't catchable or missed targets that were wide open downfield.

 

My biggest issue with Allen at this point is that he struggles so badly to throw with touch. His fastball is great, but anytime he doesn't have to drive the ball, he's throwing high or hitting his receivers in the ankles. There was a simple out to Thompson yesterday near the end of the first half. Thompson breaks out and Allen throws it out of his reach and into the turf even though he's wide open and probably moves the chains. There were a few simple dump offs to his running backs where he's hitting them in the ankles. 

 

I get that Allen can make the crazy throws, but he needs to get a lot better at making the easy ones. This goes back to when he was at Wyoming where he has an easy dump off and he throws it where his guy can't catch it. Those throws are the difference between being a 52% passer and being a 60% passer with a QB Rating above 80. Start completing those, and the completion percentage, YPA and overall efficiency all get better. 

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

My biggest issue with Allen at this point is that he struggles so badly to throw with touch. His fastball is great, but anytime he doesn't have to drive the ball, he's throwing high or hitting his receivers in the ankles. There was a simple out to Thompson yesterday near the end of the first half. Thompson breaks out and Allen throws it out of his reach and into the turf even though he's wide open and probably moves the chains. There were a few simple dump offs to his running backs where he's hitting them in the ankles. 

he suuuucks at hitting checkdowns and screens. But we've seen some checkdown masters here that were not very fun so.. whatever.

 

He's a fun QB that will frustrate us for a long time with great plays and confusing decisions.. a gunslinger that'll need to make more good plays than bad to take us anywhere. We'll see how he develops but I'm with putting all our eggs in the Allen basket.

Edited December 10, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

he suuuucks at hitting checkdowns and screens. But we've seen some checkdown masters here that were not very fun so.. whatever.

 

He's a fun QB that will frustrate us for a long time with great plays and confusing decisions.. a gunslinger that'll need to make more good plays than bad to take us anywhere. We'll see how he develops but I'm with putting all our eggs in the Allen basket.

 

For sure. I'm critical but the Bills have to build around him and go all in on helping him with better personnel this offseason. 

 

Some of his play is reminiscent of JP Losman though, where he'd drop 2 bombs in the first half and get us out to a lead, only to watch it wilt away in the 2nd half because he couldn't complete the passes that keep the chains (and clock) moving. 

 

(Even with Allen's struggles passing I think he's a much better prospect than Losman ever was). 

Edited December 10, 2018 by jrober38

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

For sure. I'm critical but the Bills have to build around him and go all in on helping him with better personnel this offseason. 

 

Some of his play is reminiscent of JP Losman though, where he'd drop 2 bombs in the first half and get us out to a lead, only to watch it wilt away in the 2nd half because he couldn't complete the passes that keep the chains (and clock) moving. 

 

(Even with Allen's struggles passing I think he's a much better prospect than Losman ever was). 

He's the most entertaining QB I've rooted for. I never really feel we're out of the game with him. He elevates his play when we're down. Takes risks when desperate.. and is a little careless with managing the lead. It all leads to a super fun albeit frustrating game I haven't really experienced with our 2000s QBs.

 

And I guess that's really the best we can ask for at this point.

Edited December 10, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

He's the most entertaining QB I've rooted for. I never really feel we're out of the game with him. He elevates his play when we're down. Takes risks when desperate.. and is a little careless with managing the lead. It all leads to a super fun albeit frustrating game I haven't really experienced with our 2000s QBs.

 

And I guess that's really the best we can ask for at this point.

entertaining he is.  He's been breaking records in almost every game.  (beyond passing yards) 

[LeGOATski]

I don't see the harm in grabbing a prospect with potential in the mid rounds. They only have two QBs: Allen and Barkley. They shouldn't put all their eggs in that basket.

[reddogblitz]

I voted for number 1 but I'm not sure if he's my QB or not,  yet.  He makes some good plays but unfortunately he is inconsistent and the fabled inaccuracy has been evident.  With all the running and all, it is fun to watch, sort of.  He looks like the kind of QBs we've gotten before that are gunslingers (Fitz) or good runners (Hotrod).  They are fun at first, but when we don't win after a short while they don't seem so much fun anymore.  While he ran for 100+ the last 2 weeks we were 0-2 and averaged 20 points per game.  Yet in the last drive of the game with the game on the line he came up short.  Not good enough.

 

True his supporting cast is not great, but I saw him have time yesterday and after a few seconds in the pocket, take off running.  While his WRs have dropped some passes, he has also horribly under thrown and over throw wide open WRs.  Opportunities have been there that went unrealized.

 

I would rather see him trying to throw from the pocket more than do all this improv running around stuff that while exciting, you will never win that way.  Russell Wilson can get away with it but he is a much more accurate passer.

[Jerome007]

This poll has opened my eyes to media & social media in general. Again it seems almost half the posts are negative, even in this thread, media are negative, and blablabla. Yet the poll shows over 80% of us see him as THE guy - and I'm one of them. And that those that see him as a bust are a super tiny minority. Loudmouths really get more attention than they deserve.

 

BTW it doesn't mean Josh is free of our criticism and that he doesn't have a lot of things to improve! But so many idiots don't get the difference between intelligent discussion and criticism with plain bashing and cheap negativity. 

 

 

 

 

[BillsfanAZ]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

For sure. I'm critical but the Bills have to build around him and go all in on helping him with better personnel this offseason. 

 

Some of his play is reminiscent of JP Losman though, where he'd drop 2 bombs in the first half and get us out to a lead, only to watch it wilt away in the 2nd half because he couldn't complete the passes that keep the chains (and clock) moving. 

 

(Even with Allen's struggles passing I think he's a much better prospect than Losman ever was). 

There are passes that Allen needs more control of but people make it sound like he misses every screen pass or touch pass. He misses one and people see it as three because of his "lack of accuracy". Allen will progree when he has consistent protection and the Bills can get playmakers on offense. Allen will also get better the longer he is in this offense. 

[IronyAbounds]

At this point I'm not sure who is more delusional, those who think Allen is a franchise QB, or those who think Allen is a bust. The jury is still out and we should expect a lengthy deliberation.

[LSHMEAB]

The jury is still out. I have lingering doubts that he's never going to improve his accuracy.

 

I'm more encouraged than I was pre-injury, but he's got to start stepping up and making plays in the pocket if he's going to be a franchise QB.

[Nextmanup]

42 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

This poll has opened my eyes to media & social media in general. Again it seems almost half the posts are negative, even in this thread, media are negative, and blablabla. Yet the poll shows over 80% of us see him as THE guy - and I'm one of them. And that those that see him as a bust are a super tiny minority. Loudmouths really get more attention than they deserve.

 

BTW it doesn't mean Josh is free of our criticism and that he doesn't have a lot of things to improve! But so many idiots don't get the difference between intelligent discussion and criticism with plain bashing and cheap negativity. 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what in the world you're talking about.

 

This forum is dominated by a very vocal majority in praise of Allen.

 

The mere suggestion that he may not be franchise material results in other posters throwing around the word "troll" and what not.

 

Most folks around here run in a pack and like to stick together with groupthink and a herd mentality, and that group thinks Josh Allen is clearly, obviously, a terrific talent.

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Can you make the usernames public, please?

 

1.  What are you talking about?

2.  How do I do it?

[Gugny]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

1.  What are you talking about?

2.  How do I do it?

 

When you create the poll, there are checkboxes to enable certain things.  Making voters' names public is one of them.  I'm not sure if you can edit that part after it's created, though.

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

When you create the poll, there are checkboxes to enable certain things.  Making voters' names public is one of them.  I'm not sure if you can edit that part after it's created, though.

 

So we can shame them?  I'll keep it in mind.  I'll dig around and see if I can change it.

 

[Gugny]

26 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

So we can shame them?  I'll keep it in mind.  I'll dig around and see if I can change it.

 

 

No shaming!!!  I'd never do that to anyone.

 

It would just be interesting to see who the "hell no," voters are.

[Nihilarian]

While 95% of this board wanted to trade up with the NY Giants (and give up the farm) to the #2 spot to draft Josh Rosen. Myself and a few others wanted Allen before the draft. So many fans here acted like they were gut punched when the Bills drafted Allen.

 

So good to see he has changed so many Bills fans minds. 

[row_33]

33 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

No shaming!!!  I'd never do that to anyone.

 

It would just be interesting to see who the "hell no," voters are.

 

Peterman's People

 

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Peterman's People

 

 

 

Or COTT parishioners.

 

 

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I don't see the harm in grabbing a prospect with potential in the mid rounds. They only have two QBs: Allen and Barkley. They shouldn't put all their eggs in that basket.

Barkley is a good backup QB. He can win us a few games if Allen went down. I wouldn't  mind someone in the 7th though.

[thebandit27]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Bad things will happen if it keeps up.  

 

 

I mean, good grief--the team had 368 yards of offense, and Josh Allen's rushing and passing accounted for 303 of that.

 

The team had 24 first downs, 5 of which came via penalty.  Of the other 19, 16 were by runs or passes from Allen.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Some of his play is reminiscent of JP Losman though, where he'd drop 2 bombs in the first half and get us out to a lead, only to watch it wilt away in the 2nd half because he couldn't complete the passes that keep the chains (and clock) moving. 

 

 

You're not the first poster to make this observation but it doesn't reflect yesterday's game:

 

*  Allen made a number of short throws to move the sticks.  Allen & the Bills converted 50% of their first downs. which isn't bad.  In fact even when Buffalo didn't score they often moved the ball boosting their field position and giving the defense a breather.

 

*  The numbers don't lie and the Bills had 24 first downs to the Jets 15; and the Bills had 33:47 minutes of TOP compared to just 26:13 for the Jets.  The Bills also out gained the Jets 368 yards to 248 yards.  The problem is that the Bills were not as good as the Jets in the red zone.  This IMO is a result of their lack of weapons.  As the field shrinks this is exposed in the red zone.