Report: Bills have discussed trading KB

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If someone has a television and cable TV, they would see that whatever talent KB has, is not being wasted in Buffalo...

 

Also, that someone would know that he will be available shortly for no picks.

 

Remember, this is a guy who, just a few months ago was complaining that Cam Newton messed up his stats!   He's a bum.

 

HE'S A GREAT MAN, A GREAT PLAYER AND YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS *

 

 

 

 

 

 

*  No he's not, no he isn't, and you likely aren't.

 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Veteran WRs are a young QBs best friend. I disagree completely with nearly the entire premise of your post. Part of the reason our QBs are struggling is because we ignored WR in the first place.

 

Yes we disagree.  this fan base has been screaming about WR's for a good decade, yet when we did have some they never performed, why because the QB's sucked.    WR's dont make QB's, that never works.  The WR's are bad and should be addressed in FA and draft.  Look at DT's contract....another one year rental but at a really high price.  It just makes no sense for this team other than to put butts in the seats.  the QB has to be able to process what happens after the snap and throw in rhythm, with anticipation.  Allen has not shown that and if he did he would throw for over 200 yards per game instead of 133 with the guys on the roster now.  Get younger/more economical choices in the offseason.  This season is toast.  

 

Who should trade for DT?  Someone trying to win the SB, not a rebuilding team.

[TheElectricCompany]

I'd take a ham sandwich. 

[Captain Hindsight]

10 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I bet he goes to a team with a decent offense and suddenly flourishes -- just like most of the other players McDermott and Beane have cut loose in their short tenure.

Like who?

 

Tyrod? 

Dareus? 

Watkins?

 

Darby has been decent, but I dont think they miss him

[MrEpsYtown]

14 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Wondering who Beane is talking to...maybe Pizza Hut?

Definitely not Papa Johns. I dont think KB is their type. 

[Jobot]

I don't see anyone parting with very much.  If we can't move him, I honestly think it would be better for the locker room to just cut him.  Guy doesn't run routes hard, not aggressive, below average hands... I don't understand how Mcdermott can preach effort and character and then have this be your #1 receiver.

[DuckyBoys]

Just say no to acquiring aging wrs  Those quick fix band aids are for contenders not a team trying to lay its foundation

[Soda Popinski]

Beane is twisting his nipples at the thought of more dead cap space....

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

I'd take a ham sandwich. 

 

 

Darn you, TEC, now all I want is a ham sandwich and I am not even being sarcastic.

 

Seriously, a few layers of smoked ham, Swiss or onion cheddar cheese, lettuce, tomato, yellow mustard and mayonnaise.  Throw in a side of regular plain old Fritos.

 

...being on a diet SUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKSS.

 

EDIT:  I didn't even mention the bread.  I don't want to think about it.  So many carbs.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

Yes we disagree.  this fan base has been screaming about WR's for a good decade, yet when we did have some they never performed, why because the QB's sucked.    WR's dont make QB's, that never works.  The WR's are bad and should be addressed in FA and draft.  Look at DT's contract....another one year rental but at a really high price.  It just makes no sense for this team other than to put butts in the seats.  the QB has to be able to process what happens after the snap and throw in rhythm, with anticipation.  Allen has not shown that and if he did he would throw for over 200 yards per game instead of 133 with the guys on the roster now.  Get younger/more economical choices in the offseason.  This season is toast.  

 

Who should trade for DT?  Someone trying to win the SB, not a rebuilding team.

First, I think you're missing the forest by focusing on trees. I don't really care how the WRs perform specifically if my offense is functioning effectively. Sammy had the best year of his career in 2015. He definitely performed, and it was in an offense that used terrible pass concepts. Second, look at our offensive performances when we did have WRs and as the WR Corps deteriorated:

2015: (Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, Harvin for like 3.5 games)

Offensive DVOA: 9th

Passing DVOA: 12th

Rushing DVOA: 2nd

 

2016: (Watkins for 8 games, Woods, Goodwin, Hunter)

Offensive DVOA: 10th

Passing DVOA: 18th

Rushing DVOA: 1st

 

2017: (Jones, Matthews, Thompson, Benjamin)

Offensive DVOA: 26th

Passing DVOA: 28th

Rushing DVOA: 19th

 

2018: (Benjamin, Jones, Holmes, McCloud)

Offensive DVOA: 32nd

Passing DVOA: 32nd

Rushing DVOA: 24th

 

[Matt_In_NH]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

First, I think you're missing the forest by focusing on trees. I don't really care how the WRs perform specifically if my offense is functioning effectively. Sammy had the best year of his career in 2015. He definitely performed, and it was in an offense that used terrible pass concepts. Second, look at our offensive performances when we did have WRs and as the WR Corps deteriorated:

2015: (Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, Harvin for like 3.5 games)

Offensive DVOA: 9th

Passing DVOA: 12th

Rushing DVOA: 2nd

 

2016: (Watkins for 8 games, Woods, Goodwin, Hunter)

Offensive DVOA: 10th

Passing DVOA: 18th

Rushing DVOA: 1st

 

2017: (Jones, Matthews, Thompson, Benjamin)

Offensive DVOA: 26th

Passing DVOA: 28th

Rushing DVOA: 19th

 

2018: (Benjamin, Jones, Holmes, McCloud)

Offensive DVOA: 32nd

Passing DVOA: 32nd

Rushing DVOA: 24th

 

The "Trees" are focusing on WR like you are here.  You need to also consider the QB and coaching (offensive coordinator/system) which are more important.  If you also list those out in the table above it will show other factors contributing to the results.  The way this reads you pick WR's and then you have a good offense.  Talk about forest and trees....come on.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The "Trees" are focusing on WR like you are here.  You need to also consider the QB and coaching (offensive coordinator/system) which are more important.  If you also list those out in the table above it will show other factors contributing to the results.  The way this reads you pick WR's and then you have a good offense.  Talk about forest and trees....come on.

QB, OL, and RB/TE were essentially the same for the first 3. Playbook was the same for the first 2. The change to Castillo & Dennison was certainly a factor, but removing players that require the defense's attention and not replacing them is the biggest issue.

[YoloinOhio]

32 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Darn you, TEC, now all I want is a ham sandwich and I am not even being sarcastic.

 

Seriously, a few layers of smoked ham, Swiss or onion cheddar cheese, lettuce, tomato, yellow mustard and mayonnaise.  Throw in a side of regular plain old Fritos.

 

...being on a diet SUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKSS.

 

EDIT:  I didn't even mention the bread.  I don't want to think about it.  So many carbs.

 

 

Rye bread, or rye/pumpernickel swirl >> KB

Edited October 24, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[billieve420]

Not seeing enough creativity from Daboll to manufacture offense while Allen gets up to speed. 

[ctk232]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

First, I think you're missing the forest by focusing on trees. I don't really care how the WRs perform specifically if my offense is functioning effectively. Sammy had the best year of his career in 2015. He definitely performed, and it was in an offense that used terrible pass concepts. Second, look at our offensive performances when we did have WRs and as the WR Corps deteriorated:

2015: (Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, Harvin for like 3.5 games)

Offensive DVOA: 9th

Passing DVOA: 12th

Rushing DVOA: 2nd

 

2016: (Watkins for 8 games, Woods, Goodwin, Hunter)

Offensive DVOA: 10th

Passing DVOA: 18th

Rushing DVOA: 1st

 

2017: (Jones, Matthews, Thompson, Benjamin)

Offensive DVOA: 26th

Passing DVOA: 28th

Rushing DVOA: 19th

 

2018: (Benjamin, Jones, Holmes, McCloud)

Offensive DVOA: 32nd

Passing DVOA: 32nd

Rushing DVOA: 24th

 

The forest also includes the fact that we had a very different OL between those years. Has a lot to do with how receivers are able to run their routes and gives the QB time to throw accurately and on time. I always liked Sammy more than KB, but doubt he becomes the player he is now if he stayed on the team. Woods was just a solid WR with exceptional blocking ability, too solid to not deal for resources in a rebuild sadly.

Edited October 24, 2018 by ctk232

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

The forest also includes the fact that we had a very different OL between those years. Has a lot to do with how receivers are able to run their routes and gives the QB time to throw accurately and on time. I always liked Sammy more than KB, but doubt he becomes the player he is now if he stayed on the team. Woods was just a solid WR with exceptional blocking ability, too solid to not deal for resources in a rebuild sadly.

Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Mills

Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Mills

Glenn/Dawkins, Incognito, Wood, Ducasse, Mills

Dawkins, Ducasse, Groy/Bodine, Miller, Mills

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

WEO, I think if someone thought that his skills were being wasted in Buffalo (I'm not saying us, I'm saying "someone") and that KB could help their team on a playoff push.

 

He could definitely help a WR needy team (possession/red zone) looking to make the playoffs, assuming a team with a competent QB/OC. He's obviously not motivated to play here and could be used to better advantage elsewhere. A 5th could be a reasonable expectation IMO.

[Iamkrgr]

The o-line is the starting point of our offensive problems. Not enough time for the qb, not enough space created for the rb. Its been a weak spot since Woods, Incognito and Glenn haven't been replaced with equal or better quality. 

 

This offseason the o-line needs to be a major focus. 

[Matt_In_NH]

51 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

QB, OL, and RB/TE were essentially the same for the first 3. Playbook was the same for the first 2. The change to Castillo & Dennison was certainly a factor, but removing players that require the defense's attention and not replacing them is the biggest issue.

 

There were different OC's every single year dude.   Lets just agree to disagree.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

16 hours ago, boater said:

Home team fans always over-value their players,

 

KB is worth nothing. Maybe a 7th rounder at best, I don't even see that happening.

 

A team was dumb enough to give us a 3rd for Tyrod taylor and a 5th for AJ McCaron, you never know what other GM's value. Didn't we also get a pick for Marshal Newhouse?

[ctk232]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Mills

Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Mills

Glenn/Dawkins, Incognito, Wood, Ducasse, Mills

Dawkins, Ducasse, Groy/Bodine, Miller, Mills

So Mills being the only consistent piece among all four years? Not saying drastically different, but Miller isn't the Miller of the first two years, and Incognito and Wood were a large reason for our run attack succeeding as well as it did. Glenn set the edge and Dawkins took over the role.

 

Not to mention the OCs we had each year: Roman, Lynn, Dennison, and Daboll - how are we supposed to put a consistent offense together with a new playbook every year?

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, ctk232 said:

So Mills being the only consistent piece among all four years? Not saying drastically different, but Miller isn't the Miller of the first two years, and Incognito and Wood were a large reason for our run attack succeeding as well as it did. Glenn set the edge and Dawkins took over the role.

 

Not to mention the OCs we had each year: Roman, Lynn, Dennison, and Daboll - how are we supposed to put a consistent offense together with a new playbook every year?

The first 3 years had quite a bit of consistency across the OL. You now say 'not drastically different' but the reason I posted that in the first place was because you said very different! Miller is the same guy, Castillo is just terrible compared to Kromer (and I addessed that earlier). And why are people all of the sudden forgetting that Roman was here through the 2016 offseason and Lynn wasn't the OC until week 3. Lynn even stated that he was utilizing Roman's playbook, but just paring down the number of plays.

[ctk232]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The first 3 years had quite a bit of consistency across the OL. You now say 'not drastically different' but the reason I posted that in the first place was because you said very different! Miller is the same guy, Castillo is just terrible compared to Kromer (and I addessed that earlier). And why are people all of the sudden forgetting that Roman was here through the 2016 offseason and Lynn wasn't the OC until week 3. Lynn even stated that he was utilizing Roman's playbook, but just paring down the number of plays.

Fair enough - I agree the "very" comment was misguided. I'll still argue the line performed differently each year and that contributed more to the stats you posted than our WR corps did. And while I get it was in response to someone commenting on our corps, pick your battles, when you quote offensive stats and DVOA in relation to our WR corps over the years as though correlation equates to causation, you're going to have a bad time. 

 

Agree to disagree that Miller is the same player now as in 2015, and I agree Castillo was the worst thing to happen to this team from a coaching perspective. And an OC that was here 3 weeks into the next season is hardly anything to count, the issue people are having with your comment is that the forest is inclusive of OC and OL and they consider these to be more contributory to the issues we see than our changing WR corps. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Fair enough - I agree the "very" comment was misguided. I'll still argue the line performed differently each year and that contributed more to the stats you posted than our WR corps did. And while I get it was in response to someone commenting on our corps, pick your battles, when you quote offensive stats and DVOA in relation to our WR corps over the years as though correlation equates to causation, you're going to have a bad time. 

 

Agree to disagree that Miller is the same player now as in 2015, and I agree Castillo was the worst thing to happen to this team from a coaching perspective. And an OC that was here 3 weeks into the next season is hardly anything to count, the issue people are having with your comment is that the forest is inclusive of OC and OL and they consider these to be more contributory to the issues we see than our changing WR corps. 

When we had the weapons (and they were healthy) the offense worked.

 

Cycling back to the topic at hand, KB ain't a weapon.

[ctk232]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

When we had the weapons (and they were healthy) the offense worked.

 

Cycling back to the topic at hand, KB ain't a weapon.

While a true statement, the two aren't exclusively cause and effect. It's a combination of that plus many other factors.

 

And yes, to the point, KB is definitely not a WR1 weapon, but matched up against DB2's and safeties in third down/red zone scenarios where he can compete for the ball in one on one matchups I'd say he'd be able to compete very well. No, he's not a weapon right now for us and I question his attitude and motivation, but on a team with other WR talent that demands attention from the secondary, he could be very useful.

[Threedollabills]

Not worth trading. Let his contract expire, give it a few days, sign him cheap, and let him compete for a spot during camp.  

[billieve420]

9 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Why keep him? Despite popular opinion I believe he is really trying to step it up the last few weeks. Call me crazy but I'd prefer to keep the last can of beans on my shelf rather than give it away for some obscure pic in the future.

 

We are not signing him to an extension. So if I was the GM I would be looking to move players who won't be here long term. Too many injury concerns plus I worry about motivation once he does get paid. He is going to need and take a 1 yr prove it deal next year from some team to show he can produce at a high level.

[YoloinOhio]

Save us Brian 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Save us Brian 

 

 

Oh please do

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Save us Brian 

 

 

 

Benj actually looked somewhat useful with an actual (albeit not very good) NFL QB- maybe just enough to convince Gaine that Watson would find some production with him. 

[DCOrange]

Seems like a really strange replacement for Fuller but I won't complain if Buffalo can find a taker.