The people marching to the boarder ???

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

No no no he lived here and watches TV so he knows. 

 

Irrigation causes wildfires.  "Hey, while I'm watering my almond trees, I'm going to irrigate the hills, so the brush grows nice and thick..."

 

Jesus... 

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

No no no he lived here and watches TV so he knows. 

It must have been caused by overhanging branches then.

[Chef Jim]

20 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

California is mostly just an irrigated desert which allows for it to be populated. Obviously there must have been an  incredible amount of fuel to allow what happened in Paradise. It wasn't because of branches overhanging roofs or a little brush here and there. My guess is (from looking at an aerial and street view) that Paradise is at the edge of the foothills and is a heavily wooded community with a lot of pine trees and others. A fire was reported started from a campgrounds which I assume was in the foothills or mountains. So, it got started in the forest of pines and hit Paradise like an all out blitz. From the news I saw on TV overhanging branches or not, that town was doomed because of the intensity of the fire before it hit Paradise. The deadwood and the pines in the foothills are what did Paradise in.

 

Paradise is one fire. The majority of our wildfires are low lying scrub and not forests. 

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

It must have been caused by overhanging branches then.

 

Give up dude. You’re all over the place. 

[3rdnlng]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

Irrigation causes wildfires.  "Hey, while I'm watering my almond trees, I'm going to irrigate the hills, so the brush grows nice and thick..."

 

Jesus... 

That's not what I said and you know it. The areas where people live and the farmlands are what is irrigated, mainly from the snow runoff and reservoirs that collect that runoff. The rest of the land gets very little moisture and the higher elevations are populated by pines which can survive on less water, but get some from snowfall.

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Paradise is one fire. The majority of our wildfires are low lying scrub and not forests. 

 

Give up dude. You’re all over the place. 

Sarcasm.

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

That's not what I said and you know it. The areas where people live and the farmlands are what is irrigated, mainly from the snow runoff and reservoirs that collect that runoff. The rest of the land gets very little moisture and the higher elevations are populated by pines which can survive on less water, but get some from snowfall.

Sarcasm.

 

It’s irrigated but not a desert. Other than that you’re spot on. ?

 

 

[DC Tom]

32 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

That's not what I said and you know it.

 

Actually, I didn't know there.  I stopped reading there because it was so stupid.  CA's not a desert, and irrigation has nothing to do with CA's wildfires.

[3rdnlng]

26 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

It’s irrigated but not a desert. Other than that you’re spot on. ?

 

 

I don't think we're really far apart on this. Tell me, what would the LA Basin be if it had to rely only on its own rainfall?

[Foxx]

Colorado River and the Hoover Dam.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I don't think we're really far apart on this. Tell me, what would the LA Basin be if it had to rely only on its own rainfall?

 

Mediterranean.  

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

Actually, I didn't know there.  I stopped reading there because it was so stupid.  CA's not a desert, and irrigation has nothing to do with CA's wildfires.

Maybe if you read what I wrote instead of just trying to be a prick you might have understood what I was saying. Take southern CA for example, it can't prosper with only its own rainwater. It has to import it from elsewhere to support the population. The lack of water in the areas that are not irrigated and dead brush cause conditions that make those areas susceptible to wildfires.

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

Maybe if you read what I wrote instead of just trying to be a prick you might have understood what I was saying. Take southern CA for example, it can't prosper with only its own rainwater. It has to import it from elsewhere to support the population. The lack of water in the areas that are not irrigated and dead brush cause conditions that make those areas susceptible to wildfires.

 

One has nothing to do with the other, dumbass.

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

One has nothing to do with the other, dumbass.

Nice Gleeful Gator imitation.

 

Here's some info for you. Yes, the LA Basin is like the Med, but the North Africa part of it.

 

[Chef Jim]

19 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I don't think we're really far apart on this. Tell me, what would the LA Basin be if it had to rely only on its own rainfall?

 

Unpopulated. I’m busting your nuts for saying California is a desert. 

13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Maybe if you read what I wrote instead of just trying to be a prick you might have understood what I was saying. Take southern CA for example, it can't prosper with only its own rainwater. It has to import it from elsewhere to support the population. The lack of water in the areas that are not irrigated and dead brush cause conditions that make those areas susceptible to wildfires.

 

Here is the interesting thing. The fires are often worse the year after a heavy rainy season. Lots more fuel. 

[IDBillzFan]

Political jabber aside, I think it's widely understood CA has done a horrible job of properly handling the thinning of the forests. They simply cut resources and never brought them back.

 

Blame aside, lack of staff and resources, coupled with the last drought we had, makes many parts ofr CA a tinderbox...even beef you throw in the Santa Anas. I've got 3 firefighters in my Bible study group, and whenever we have warnings for winds, they know what's coming and how fast it moves. They're quick to point out how the forests have been neglected, and the role that plays in concerns for fighting those fires.

 

Again, blame aside, this state burns hot, fast, and out of control, and there's more to this than making sure your property is cleared.

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Unpopulated. I’m busting your nuts for saying California is a desert. 

Thanks for busting my nuts. You and Tom seem to be playing Obtuse and Obtuser.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

Thanks for busting my nuts. You and Tom seem to be playing Obtuse and Obtuser.

 

Sorry. You lost this when you (and Donald) had the great idea to do a better job managing our “forests” and clearing brush. That was an awesome idea. LOL. 

[3rdnlng]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Sorry. You lost this when you (and Donald) had the great idea to do a better job managing our “forests” and clearing brush. That was an awesome idea. LOL. 

Don't attribute what Trump has said to me. I have thought for quite some time that CA needed to do a better job of clearing dead wood and brush from its wooded areas (sometimes called forests) and brush country. Clearing useless land around communities and fire breaks in the wooded areas (sometimes called forests) should help mitigate fire damage.

 

See the link:

 

http://calfire.ca.gov/fire_prevention/fire_prevention

 

Part of CAL FIRE’s mission is to prevent fires. The department’s Fire Prevention Program consists of multiple activities including wildland pre-fire engineering, vegetation management, fire planning, education and law enforcement. Common projects include fire break construction and other fire fuel reduction activities that lessen the risk of wildfire to communities.  This may include brush clearance around communities, along roadways and evacuation routes. Other important activities include defensible space inspections, emergency evacuation planning, fire prevention education, fire hazard severity mapping, implementation of the State Fire Plan, fire-related law enforcement activities such as investigations to determine fire cause and origin as well as arson  cases, and support for local government fire safe planning in the SRA.

Wildland Fire Engineering

Wildland fire prevention engineering processes reduce or eliminate fire hazards and risks, and change the environment by removing or reducing the heat source, modifying or reducing the fuels (this is where our defensible space program resides), and modifying the act or omission allowing the heat source to contact ignitable fuels.

Vegetation Management Program

The Vegetation Management Program (VMP) is a cost sharing program that focuses on the use of prescribed fire, and other mechanical means to reduce wildland fire fuel hazards. The use of prescribed fire mimics natural processes, restores fire to its historic role in wildland ecosystems, and provides significant fire hazard reduction benefits that enhance public and firefighter safety. VMP allows private landowners to enter into a contract with CAL FIRE to use prescribed fire to accomplish a combination of fire protection and resource management goals.

 

Fire Planning and Risk Analysis

Fire planning incorporates concepts of the National Fire Plan, the California Strategic Fire Plan and individual CAL FIRE Unit Fire Prevention Plans, as well as Community Wildfire Protection Plans (CWPP’s). Unit plans and CWPP’s outline fire situations at the local levels. Each identifies prevention measures to reduce risks, educates and involves the local community or communities, and provides a framework to diminish the potential loss due to wildfire. Planning includes other state, federal and local government agencies, as well as fire safe councils.

[Rob's House]

[Deranged Rhino]

Reports are Nielson's out at DHS... 

 

[ALF]

Another extreme risk area where they rebuild . I don't see how to countermeasure the effects of Santa Ana  and Diablo winds acting like a blowtorch.

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

 

 

[Wacka]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

 

 

 

Nice easy target practice.

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, Wacka said:

Nice easy target practice.

 

I was thinking flamethrower practice, personally. They'll get the message real quick.

[keepthefaith]

Where are all the women and children? 

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Where are all the women and children? 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

3 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Where are all the women and children? 

 

 

Excellent reporting from Ami Horowitz (Daily Wire) who traveled to Mexico to find out the real reason why there is a caravan of migrants on its way to the United States’ border with its southern neighbor.  Within the video report you can get an understanding of who is inside the group (95% young males); and why they are making the journey.

 

Horowitz actually embeds with the migrants to ask questions and understand how it is logistically possible for tens-of-thousands of people to travel, eat and sleep over such a great distance.  What he discovers is the network of facilitating agencies who are spending tens-of-millions to challenge U.S. sovereignty and overwhelm our immigration laws.

 

 

 

 

[DC Tom]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

Excellent reporting from Ami Horowitz (Daily Wire) who traveled to Mexico to find out the real reason why there is a caravan of migrants on its way to the United States’ border with its southern neighbor.  Within the video report you can get an understanding of who is inside the group (95% young males); and why they are making the journey.

 

Horowitz actually embeds with the migrants to ask questions and understand how it is logistically possible for tens-of-thousands of people to travel, eat and sleep over such a great distance.  What he discovers is the network of facilitating agencies who are spending tens-of-millions to challenge U.S. sovereignty and overwhelm our immigration laws.

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to go through all the steps down the rabbit hole from this, but eventually you get to the OAS report on the Honduran elections, where the OAS Secretay General calls for new elections because of

 

Quote

Deliberate human intrusions in the computer system, intentional elimination of digital traces, the impossibility of knowing the number of opportunities in which the system was violated, pouches of votes open or lacking votes, the extreme statistical improbability with respect to participation levels within the same department, recently printed ballots and additional irregularities, added to the narrow difference of votes between the two most voted candidates, make it impossible to determine with the necessary certainty the winner.

 

 

Hmmmm...sound familiar?

[Nanker]

So they’re actually coming in from Florida. Hmmm. 

[BeginnersMind]

One American pastor joined the caravan and is posting about it on Facebook. 

 

https://churchleaders.com/news/337415-caravan-in-mexico-pastor-wanted-know-truth-about-migrant-caravan-so-he-joined-it.html?fbclid=IwAR3xdiyMPW3Ep2tGp8xPIA6BNruAwzeNYO91kv8EYJa58dqgjeHSAXezwE8

 

The links to his posts are in that story. They are a little LAMPy but still from on the ground. Interesting to follow. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, BeginnersMind said:

One American pastor joined the caravan and is posting about it on Facebook. 

 

https://churchleaders.com/news/337415-caravan-in-mexico-pastor-wanted-know-truth-about-migrant-caravan-so-he-joined-it.html?fbclid=IwAR3xdiyMPW3Ep2tGp8xPIA6BNruAwzeNYO91kv8EYJa58dqgjeHSAXezwE8

 

The links to his posts are in that story. 

 

 

I'd say that you're missing the point but that would imply you seek truth.

 

Let's just go with the narrative that almost everyone in the caravan and others seeking to come to America are well intentioned.  I have two questions based one that:

 

1.  How many should we allow in overall?  In other words, how many is too many?

2. Based on your answer to 1, how should we decide which people should be allowed in?

 

The simple truth is that the people in the caravan are pawns to something most within it do not intend or understand.  The fact that there is an organization called People Without Borders which is helping these people get to the US with a supply chain of necessities enabling their travel is a demonstration of that.  Does that organization have similar operations under way helping people get in to Iran?  North Korea? China?  Sri Lanka? Canada? Any other tin pot backward country like that?  If not, why not?  Why isn't it helping people from other parts of the world get to the US on a massive scale?  Why are Hondurans coming the the US so special?  Why not Albanians migrating to Tahiti?  No borders amirite?

Edited November 15, 2018 by 4merper4mer

[BeginnersMind]

56 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I'd say that you're missing the point but that would imply you seek truth.

 

Let's just go with the narrative that almost everyone in the caravan and others seeking to come to America is well intentioned.  I have two questions based one that:

 

1.  How many should we allow in overall?  In other words, how many is too many?

4

 

We have a system for legal immigration. We should let in whoever makes it through that system.

 

56 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

2. Based on your answer to 1, how should we decide which people should be allowed in?

 

 

Follow the legal process.

 

56 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

The simple truth is that the people in the caravan are pawns to something most within it do not intend or understand.  The fact that there is an organization called People Without Borders which is helping these people get to the US with a supply chain of necessities enabling their travel is a demonstration of that.  Does that organization have similar operations under way helping people get in to Iran?  North Korea? China?  Sri Lanka? Canada? Any other tin pot backward country like that?  If not, why not?  Why isn't it helping people from other parts of the world get to the US on a massive scale?  Why are Hondurans coming the the US so special?  Why not Albanians migrating to Tahiti?  No borders amirite?

 

The immigrant caravan is demonized as criminals and an invasion, and been part of scare tactics to fire up an electorate. Some are criminal. But mostly they are people seeking a better life. It's a challenge, but one better approached through a lens of compassion than "target practice" jokes and dehumanization. They are humans. The NYC Jew is human. The Missisippi family on the bayou is human. None of them are beneath that threshold. 

[Deranged Rhino]

11 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

I'm not going to go through all the steps down the rabbit hole from this, but eventually you get to the OAS report on the Honduran elections, where the OAS Secretay General calls for new elections because of

 

 

 

Hmmmm...sound familiar?

 

And which SecState ran the information campaign to oust the former regime?

 

Between Hondouras and Libya it's amazing her supporters have the nerve to call her a positive force for good in the world. 

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

The immigrant caravan is demonized as criminals and an invasion, and been part of scare tactics to fire up an electorate. Some are criminal. But mostly they are people seeking a better life. It's a challenge, but one better approached through a lens of compassion than "target practice" jokes and dehumanization. They are humans. The NYC Jew is human. The Missisippi family on the bayou is human. None of them are beneath that threshold. 

 

I’m going to break into your house that is nicer than mine and demand access to your bigger bank account because, you know, I’m just seeking a better life. 

[BeginnersMind]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I’m going to break into your house that is nicer than mine and demand access to your bigger bank account because, you know, I’m just seeking a better life. 

 

That's a strong counterpoint to a person who says "seeking a better life entitles you to break into my house and take my money."

 

two four six oh one

Edited November 15, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

We have a system for legal immigration. We should let in whoever makes it through that system.

 

 

Follow the legal process.

 

 

The immigrant caravan is demonized as criminals and an invasion, and been part of scare tactics to fire up an electorate. Some are criminal. But mostly they are people seeking a better life. It's a challenge, but one better approached through a lens of compassion than "target practice" jokes and dehumanization. They are humans. The NYC Jew is human. The Missisippi family on the bayou is human. None of them are beneath that threshold. 

Does our immigration system seek to accommodate thousands of people simultaneously redefining the word asylum because a bunch of commies organized a caravan?  Which clause provides for that?

 

My post which you quoted demonized zero people in that caravan yet 75% of your reply was about demonization?  Why is that?  

[Tiberius]

What a failed midterm election strategy focusing on these poor people turned out to be...

[IDBillzFan]

You see. Billy Idol gets it. I don't know why no one else gets it.

 

 

[keepthefaith]

6 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

We have a system for legal immigration. We should let in whoever makes it through that system.

 

 

Follow the legal process.

 

 

 

 

We have a legal system which puts limits on the numbers granted visa's and citizenship and defines proper entry into the country.  Many that come here circumvent that process and abuse the leniency in the illegal entry process.  It's a no brainer that improper entry and proper entry in reasonable numbers be strictly enforced.  This should be something both political parties easily agree on.  Trump's position on the whole matter is easily the most proper and sensible in decades (with exception of who pays for wall).  Big reason he won the election. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by keepthefaith

[BeginnersMind]

57 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

We have a legal system which puts limits on the numbers granted visa's and citizenship and defines proper entry into the country.  Many that come here circumvent that process and abuse the leniency in the illegal entry process.  It's a no brainer that improper entry and proper entry in reasonable numbers be strictly enforced.  This should be something both political parties easily agree on.  Trump's position on the whole matter is easily the most proper and sensible in decades (with exception of who pays for wall).  Big reason he won the election. 

 

Immigration is a red meat issue like abortion, gay marriage, trans bathrooms, guns. It affects few people but gets people's panties in a bunch. Tackling things like social security, bank regulation, military overspending, executive authority...I'm falling asleep already...wake me up when I get to something important...oh I got one: Stormy Daniels! Now I'm woke.

 

I am not against securing the border. But I am for less restrictive LEGAL immigration policy as well. We *need* immigrants. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Immigration is a red meat issue like abortion, gay marriage, trans bathrooms, guns. It affects few people but gets people's panties in a bunch. Tackling things like social security, bank regulation, military overspending, executive authority...I'm falling asleep already...wake me up when I get to something important...oh I got one: Stormy Daniels! Now I'm woke.

 

I am not against securing the border. But I am for less restrictive LEGAL immigration policy as well. We *need* immigrants. 

Fundamentally untrue. There may have been a time that you were correct, but with the numbers estimated as high as 22,000,000 folks here illegally, under radar, burdening the system, it impacts everybody.  Medicaid is impacted. Social security is impacted. Federal and State tax rates are impacted. Cost of insurance, level of benefits available. And so on. 

 

I'd liken it to a fuse burning for an awfully long time, decades in fact, so long in fact that anyone can see it if they are looking. But eventually, the fuse reaches the economic bomb and detonation surely follows. Who is impacted, and how they are impacted changes from individual to individual. 

 

I'd favor more restrictive immigration all day, every day. Then again today's immigration system really boils down to those who follow the rules and those who do not. In fact, add legal immigration to the list of items directly and adversely impacted by illegal immigration.