John from Riverside Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: How many of the players who stood by and watched Tre White laying motionless on the ground after Gronk decked him last year, are still on the team? How about the guys who watched Tyrod get his bell rung against Jacksonville? Those players who said/did nothing to the opposing team? Allen gets tossed around like a rag doll and thrown to the ground. What do you see his teammates doing? (answer: throwing an air flag and walking away) These guys are not playing for McDermott. They are not playing for each other. They are playing for the paycheck. Period. This culture thing, I'm afraid, is an antiquated approach. Just get some !@#$ing talent on the team (including an OC, O line coach and WR coach) and win some !@#$ing games. Not happening this year.....which actually may be part of the plan. You gotta suck to get into the top 3 picks but at least they have their QB on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, CountDorkula said: 1st bold he said "once our attitude changes the run game will improve" - which is entirely false. Everyone who knows anything about the Buffalo Bills offense knows the OL is playing truly horrible football. He is giving his OL one more chance to prove that they have some sort of talent and can play the game better with more effort. He is not going to tell the media that the OL is made up of a bunch of "talentless" pu$$ys. I'm still taking Beane and McDermott at their word. I will however, have a completely different opinion of them IF guys like Benjamin and Miller are on the team next year. Until then I will watch and see what happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Not happening this year.....which actually may be part of the plan. You gotta suck to get into the top 3 picks but at least they have their QB on board. I know they're not going to win a lot this year and I'm fine with it. But for the love of Christ, at least PRETEND to have each other's backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said: If the regime lasts 3 years or less then they failed anyway, due to some combination of factors. If you are aiming for long term success I think it applies. A recent article in Sports Illustrated on the Seahawks was illuminating. The premise of the article was that they built a very strong culture (based on competition and accountability) that had success and was primed for continued success, but they deviated from it and corrupted it, at least in part leading to their downfall. But yeah, for the three ring circus we're used to in Buffalo it's a foreign concept for sure. Have to go back to the Levy/Polian era for a strong winning culture that lasted many years. The citation of the Seahawks is a perfect example of why culture is important. They are pretty much employing the same strategy this year, but as you said, the culture isn't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, ColoradoBills said: Everyone who knows anything about the Buffalo Bills offense knows the OL is playing truly horrible football. He is giving his OL one more chance to prove that they have some sort of talent and can play the game better with more effort. He is not going to tell the media that the OL is made up of a bunch of "talentless" pu$$ys. I'm still taking Beane and McDermott at their word. I will however, have a completely different opinion of them IF guys like Benjamin and Miller are on the team next year. Until then I will watch and see what happens. i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better. that's what i got out of it. the entire team needs to play better. i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight. i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching. i do think he can right the ship though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 culture, process.......just get good players and good coaches and win some damn games. Football is not a complicated game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I find your ideas convincing and believe I am in the camp of talent breeds culture to an extent. Brady, Jordan all raised the bar on their teams and that created the culture of winning. If you only eat dandelions and raw eggs and are winning a lot of people around may say, I hate that diet but I do love winning so can I wash that down with a beer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate..... The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes What John said. Our run blocking is a total debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, Paulus said: Are the Patriots a culture or a strategy? Can an element of strategy be to have a strong culture? Perhaps even being culture first? The way through terms are used lends me to believe that people have differing definitions of each, at least within this context. Is showing up to work on time a culture of strategy type of thing? What good is a strategy if the workers won't implement it? Bottom line, the twitter dolts are just trying to stir a pot of ignorance with their fans, and this is a HUGE NOTHING BURGER! Good point. When these twitter dweebs refer to the “Patriot Way” they aren’t referring to a strategy, the are referring to a deeply ingrained culture. I like your suggestion that establishing a culture can be part of a strategy, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, jkeerie said: The citation of the Seahawks is a perfect example of why culture is important. They are pretty much employing the same strategy this year, but as you said, the culture isn't the same. Or they just lost their Legion of doom defense and were not able to play all their good players....... Just now, K-9 said: Good point. When these twitter dweebs refer to the “Patriot Way” they aren’t referring to a strategy, the are referring to a deeply ingrained culture. I like your suggestion that establishing a culture can be part of a strategy, too. What is the Patrirot way? Please define it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What John said. Our run blocking is a total debacle. I'm not saying that the O Line has been good ... they haven't. But McCoy has averaged 4.3 YPC and Marcus Murphy, 4.1 YPC. Can't run the ball if the OC doesn't call run plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Do we have players who don't "love football" or who refuse to do things the "right way"? What is the "right way"? I assume that means to work hard, be on time, know your playbook, stay in shape and stay out of trouble off the field. If that's basically it, are we losing games because people aren't doing those things??? Seems to me we are losing because we don't have the talent to win one on one matchups whether its blocking on the edge, beating a CB, making the right read or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What John said. Our run blocking is a total debacle. Hey, if they just pick their heads up and say "gosh darn golly" (no swearing in McDermotts church) "I am going to be better tomorrow. no more negative vibes" this offense is going to be unstoppable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, CountDorkula said: Or they just lost their Legion of doom defense and were not able to play all their good players....... What is the Patrirot way? Please define it. I leave that to whatever scribe first coined the phrase. I suspect it’s difficult to do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) I liked McDermott but this year and the way he is handling himself in the media is embarrassing. Coach speak all the time. He is trying to be clever and sounds like a fool. Trying to be Belichick too bad he is a loser with a loser record. Whats the purpose of having media Q&A if he answers all the questions like a fool??? Does he think that the fans dont deserve a straight up answer? This guy has a HUGE Ego. Edited October 3, 2018 by wppete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, K-9 said: I leave that to whatever scribe first coined the phrase. I suspect it’s difficult to do though. I'll tell you what the Patriot way is. It was having very good players and one the best QB's in the league along with a coach who broke a lot of rules to win. Once TB12 retires the Patriots are no longer the Patriots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, teef said: i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better. that's what i got out of it. the entire team needs to play better. i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight. i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching. i do think he can right the ship though. Without knowing what goes on other than the play on the field, I couldn't say it's all on coaching nor can I say coaching isn't the problem. I do know one thing. There are 6 Offensive Guards on the active 53. They are not there for "injuries". I think without a complete change of play from the interior line we all will start to see some changes very soon. There just has to be some huge pressure on Juan Castillo (McDermott's friend) right now. I would love to know how Daboll sees the OL and it's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, teef said: i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better. that's what i got out of it. the entire team needs to play better. i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight. i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching. i do think he can right the ship though. The OL is so strange. If you go over to the All-22 thread, there are links to 3 Coach Sal tweets about the Bills 2nd series. 1st down: 21 personnel. Good protection, though Matthews doesn't test Lee, instead dropping back. 2nd down: 11 personnel. Mills and Miller beaten like drums. It's difficult to describe how totally inadequate Mills is against Matthews. 3rd down: 10 with Shady kept in to block. Good protection, this is a semi-throw-away (no one really open, but ball could be placed better so Benj had a shot) It's like the OL takes every other play off or something. Really strange. I have watched run plays until I feel nauseous. About 1/3 of the time, it's so bad I can't figure out what the blocking was supposed to look like if it had worked. Part of it is execution - when we do cut blocks, they are rarely effective. But even that is part coaching, how long do you need to watch cut blocks which end with your OL sprawled on the ground being hurdled by defenders, before you say "OK, this just doesn't work"? There also just seems to be massive confusion about assignments. Again, at least part coaching, how long do you need to watch your OL milling about aimlessly before you say "OK, they aren't getting it, let's try something else" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, CountDorkula said: I'll tell you what the Patriot way is. It was having very good players and one the best QB's in the league along with a coach who broke a lot of rules to win. Once TB12 retires the Patriots are no longer the Patriots. Can’t argue that. My my philosophy is that if you fill your organization with enough people that possess football character the culture, whatever tf that is and however tf it manifests, will take care of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mickey said: Do we have players who don't "love football" or who refuse to do things the "right way"? What is the "right way"? I assume that means to work hard, be on time, know your playbook, stay in shape and stay out of trouble off the field. If that's basically it, are we losing games because people aren't doing those things??? Seems to me we are losing because we don't have the talent to win one on one matchups whether its blocking on the edge, beating a CB, making the right read or whatever. That is part of it at times. But part of it seems to be play calling and protection calls. I don't understand our play calling at all sometimes, and when I say "I don't understand" I mean it seems inappropriate to me. Protection, sometimes I see what appears to be massive confusion, where the OL doesn't seem to know who they're supposed to block. But even when they do know - sometimes they get the job done, and sometimes they don't. The D, two games now they seem to come out flat, let the opponent march them backwards 2-4x in the first half, then they're issued their backbones in the 2nd half and play much better, even when we didn't have a commanding lead (eg Pack) So there may be something to be said for a variable amount of effort exerted at times. Or maybe that's coaching too, different play calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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