My Love/Hate Relationship with the Bills, Fans & Allen - Rant

[BigDingus]

As happy as I am about the win, and even happier Allen performed admirably, I'm becoming more & more frustrated with the fandom for being unable to look at events with any nuance or restraint. I will gladly eat crow and admit I did not think we'd win against the Vikings. I was wrong. However, I only apologize to those who GENUINELY believed we'd win based off some deeper understanding & insight that I overlooked & underappreciated, not to those who consistently say each week the Bills will win by double digit scores, and predict 11 to 12 win seasons every year.

 

And that's the problem, the former has become the exception, while the latter has become the norm. All offseason I was blasted for simply pointing out how bad the O-line is setup. I predicted the offense was going to struggle because of that + the WR group we have. I was refuted by saying our WR's are going to be better than last year (based on nothing), our O-line improved (based on nothing...actually people said the losses would be the source of the improvement), and that young QB's don't need a veteran QB, as it's unimportant (though every year those young QB's, experts, coaches, etc. all tell us the exact opposite). The reasoning behind this is simple - Fans, more than ever, isolate themselves & decide ignorance is bliss, and that each year the team is going in the right direction. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm losing confidence in fans here to have REASONABLE discussions & opinions based on logic & evidence. I enjoy many of the posters, but it's hard to find the ones that want to talk football among the others who want to find an echo chamber to bounce their bias off of. Some of that is to be expected, but the majority of it? Why can't we be honest & respectful rather than resorting to insults when someone points out obvious issues? Why accept anything & everything the Bills do, solely because its the Bills who did it? When they make poor decisions, it's ok to acknowledge that.

There are far too many posts lately which underline this problem, and highlight just how far away from reasonable thinking we've grown accustomed to.

The fact that the Mahomes vs Allen thread is lopsided in Allen's favor is insane enough. Mahomes, the guy who is destroying NFL records in his first career starts, is getting skipped on by the guy who has never done anything in his HS, Junior College, or College career, and had 1 above average NFL game....

But yes, let's take Allen & Tre White over Mahomes + 1st round pick in 2018 + 2nd round pick in 2018 + another 2nd round pick in 2018  (funny how that thread left out the other picks)

 

Mahomes looked like a stud at every level of the game. In college, yes, he played in a spread offense. But so what? How many other Texas Tech QB's were in spread offenses and either went undrafted, or were drafted late as practice squad filler? Mahomes separated himself for a reason.

 

*Mahomes threw for 4,653 yards & 36 TD's compared to 15 INT's, with 63.5% completions in his sophomore year

*Mahomes threw for 5,052 yards & 41 TD's compared to  10 INT's, with 65.7% completions in his junior year (an obvious improvement in every area)

*Allen threw for 3,203 yards & 28 TD's compared to 15 INT's, with 56.0% completions his junior year

*Allen threw for 1,812 yards & 16 TD's compared to 6 INT's, with 56.3% completions his senior year (missed 2 games, but that doesn't account for such a substantial drop off)

 

*Mahomes was such a prolific passer, he set the single-game FBS passing record with 734 yards against Oklahoma (you know, an actual good school), and set the FBS record for total yards with 819 (not to mention 7 TD passes in that game)

*Mahomes is only the 3rd QB in college football history to have over 5,000 yards of total offense in more than one season
*Mahomes lead the country in yards per game, total yards, and total TD's his junior year.

*Mahomes is the youngest QB to throw for 6 TD's in a game in the NFL

*Mahomes has thrown the most TD passes through the first 3 games of a season in NFL history, which also set the NFL record for most through first 3 career games.

But Allen, man....he could POTENTIALLY be good, he could POSSIBLY put up numbers even close to that one day, he MIGHT become a franchise QB one day, and he didn't do anything notable in college...but hey, why take someone we've seen be great on the field when we have someone that MIGHT be good one day? Why take $1,000,000 in cash up front when we could throw it down in Vegas and hope to get $10,000,000?! I mean, that would be the logical thing to do right?

And you know why it's hard to have conversations on these boards? Because people want to knee-jerk react to everything, discredit anything that isn't their's while pumping up everything that is, and throw fairness & reason out the window for "rah rah" antics. Darnold wins a game? Doesn't matter. Darnold loses a game, "HAH! Knew he sucked." Allen looks bad in a couple games, "Doesn't matter." Allen looks pretty good in one game, "See! This is who he REALLY is!" 

Where did nuance go? When did citing reality become being a "hater" or being called "'negative?" Why are facts offensive, and why are opinions based on evidence frowned upon, while blind faith is applauded? 

Clearly, I'm frustrated. I want to talk football with people, respond to threads & have engaging discussions, join in conversation with those who share a love for the Bills, etc. I want to speculate on future moves, talk about what the team is missing & how to improve that, compare strengths & weaknesses for each matchup, and just have a good time. But how can that happen when the Bills apparently have the advantage against every team, or how there aren't any major problems, only minor issues that can get shored up before the game, or when every article or breakdown is just "biased media" or "no-nothing hacks" who hate the Bills for no reason?

You point to Josh Allen's career inaccuracy issues, and suddenly "accuracy doesn't matter." You point to how QB's drafted on potential, hand size, and arm strength rarely pan out, and it's discredited as being some other QB's "fanboy." I mean, right now the Bills have the most 3 & outs in the league (again), and are on pace to hit a 15 year league high record, but I'm sure that'll be dismissed just like it was last year with Tyrod. Either that, or we'll blame the OC (which I predicted will happen before the season, and the talk has already started) & spin the wheels once more with a new hire to subdue the crowd.

Anyway, I'm sure this will be tossed aside by most for not being with the program, or just more "negative Nancy" talk, but I honestly hope to reach a few people on maybe trying to consider it's Ok to have reasonable discussions with people who aren't sold on every facet of the Bills decision making & roster building process. It's Ok to admit other teams have superior X position players than us. It's Ok to acknowledge we've made mistakes in certain areas.

And none of what I've said is saying "JOSH ALLEN IS A MISTAKE!" Again, I'm neutral on him for at least this year. Would I take someone like Mahomes over him? Absolutely, but I've seen him play for a long time, and now he's doing exactly what he's always done & at the Pro level. If Allen only does exactly what he's always done, but at a Pro Level, it'll be considered a huge failure. He needs to do what he's never done in order to succeed in the NFL, and that's what has my neutral on him. I hope he can, I will support him, and I will support the Bills, but I can only speak for what the evidence shows. On that note, I wish you all the best, I hope at least a couple people take to heart some things I've said, and I look forward to discussing more Bills news with everyone in the future. Have a great day everyone!



 

Edited September 26, 2018 by BigDingus

[Captain_Quint]

Edited September 27, 2018 by Captain_Quint

[BuffAlone]

You lost me after blah, blah, blah

[Best Player Available]

Any chance a Cliff notes version of this coming out?

[Boca BIlls]

Mahomes has more superstar WRs and TE and RB then any other team in the NFL.

[Rocky Landing]

[oldmanfan]

I'll talk football.  You've decided Mahomes based on two games is a superstar.  He looked really good but as teams figure him out we'll see.  Allen had two good games andvtiu question him.

 

They are young QBs.  They have a long way to go and making any judgment on either right now is premature.

[bobblehead]

I guess the negative Nancy’s figured out thier point of attack this week. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

20 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

As happy as I am about the win, and even happier Allen performed admirably, I'm becoming more & more frustrated with the fandom for being unable to look at events with any nuance or restraint. I will gladly eat crow and admit I did not think we'd win against the Vikings. I was wrong. However, I only apologize to those who GENUINELY believed we'd win based off some deeper understanding & insight that I overlooked & underappreciated, not to those who consistently say each week the Bills will win by double digit scores, and predict 11 to 12 win seasons every year.

 

And that's the problem, the former has become the exception, while the latter has become the norm. All offseason I was blasted for simply pointing out how bad the O-line is setup. I predicted the offense was going to struggle because of that + the WR group we have. I was refuted by saying our WR's are going to be better than last year (based on nothing), our O-line improved (based on nothing...actually people said the losses would be the source of the improvement), and that young QB's don't need a veteran QB, as it's unimportant (though every year those young QB's, experts, coaches, etc. all tell us the exact opposite). The reasoning behind this is simple - Fans, more than ever, isolate themselves & decide ignorance is bliss, and that each year the team is going in the right direction. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm losing confidence in fans here to have REASONABLE discussions & opinions based on logic & evidence. I enjoy many of the posters, but it's hard to find the ones that want to talk football among the others who want to find an echo chamber to bounce their bias off of. Some of that is to be expected, but the majority of it? Why can't we be honest & respectful rather than resorting to insults when someone points out obvious issues? Why accept anything & everything the Bills do, solely because its the Bills who did it? When they make poor decisions, it's ok to acknowledge that.

There are far too many posts lately which underline this problem, and highlight just how far away from reasonable thinking we've grown accustomed to.

The fact that the Mahomes vs Allen thread is lopsided in Allen's favor is insane enough. Mahomes, the guy who is destroying NFL records in his first career starts, is getting skipped on by the guy who has never done anything in his HS, Junior College, or College career, and had 1 above average NFL game....

But yes, let's take Allen & Tre White over Mahomes + 1st round pick in 2018 + 2nd round pick in 2018 + another 2nd round pick in 2018  (funny how that thread left out the other picks)

 

Mahomes looked like a stud at every level of the game. In college, yes, he played in a spread offense. But so what? How many other Texas Tech QB's were in spread offenses and either went undrafted, or were drafted late as practice squad filler? Mahomes separated himself for a reason.

 

*Mahomes threw for 4,653 yards & 36 TD's compared to 15 INT's, with 63.5% completions in his sophomore year

*Mahomes threw for 5,052 yards & 41 TD's compared to  10 INT's, with 65.7% completions in his junior year (an obvious improvement in every area)

*Allen threw for 3,203 yards & 28 TD's compared to 15 INT's, with 56.0% completions his junior year

*Allen threw for 1,812 yards & 16 TD's compared to 6 INT's, with 56.3% completions his senior year (missed 2 games, but that doesn't account for such a substantial drop off)

 

*Mahomes was such a prolific passer, he set the single-game FBS passing record with 734 yards against Oklahoma (you know, an actual good school), and set the FBS record for total yards with 819 (not to mention 7 TD passes in that game)

*Mahomes is only the 3rd QB in college football history to have over 5,000 yards of total offense in more than one season
*Mahomes lead the country in yards per game, total yards, and total TD's his junior year.

*Mahomes is the youngest QB to throw for 6 TD's in a game in the NFL

*Mahomes has thrown the most TD passes through the first 3 games of a season in NFL history, which also set the NFL record for most through first 3 career games.

But Allen, man....he could POTENTIALLY be good, he could POSSIBLY put up numbers even close to that one day, he MIGHT become a franchise QB one day, and he didn't do anything notable in college...but hey, why take someone we've seen be great on the field when we have someone that MIGHT be good one day? Why take $1,000,000 in cash up front when we could throw it down in Vegas and hope to get $10,000,000?! I mean, that would be the logical thing to do right?

And you know why it's hard to have conversations on these boards? Because people want to knee-jerk react to everything, discredit anything that isn't their's while pumping up everything that is, and throw fairness & reason out the window for "rah rah" antics. Darnold wins a game? Doesn't matter. Darnold loses a game, "HAH! Knew he sucked." Allen looks bad in a couple games, "Doesn't matter." Allen looks pretty good in one game, "See! This is who he REALLY is!" 

Where did nuance go? When did citing reality become being a "hater" or being called "'negative?" Why are facts offensive, and why are opinions based on evidence frowned upon, while blind faith is applauded? 

Clearly, I'm frustrated. I want to talk football with people, respond to threads & have engaging discussions, join in conversation with those who share a love for the Bills, etc. I want to speculate on future moves, talk about what the team is missing & how to improve that, compare strengths & weaknesses for each matchup, and just have a good time. But how can that happen when the Bills apparently have the advantage against every team, or how there aren't any major problems, only minor issues that can get shored up before the game, or when every article or breakdown is just "biased media" or "no-nothing hacks" who hate the Bills for no reason?

You point to Josh Allen's career inaccuracy issues, and suddenly "accuracy doesn't matter." You point to how QB's drafted on potential, hand size, and arm strength rarely pan out, and it's discredited as being some other QB's "fanboy." I mean, right now the Bills have the most 3 & outs in the league (again), and are on pace to hit a 15 year league high record, but I'm sure that'll be dismissed just like it was last year with Tyrod. Either that, or we'll blame the OC (which I predicted will happen before the season, and the talk has already started) & spin the wheels once more with a new hire to subdue the crowd.

Anyway, I'm sure this will be tossed aside by most for not being with the program, or just more "negative Nancy" talk, but I honestly hope to reach a few people on maybe trying to consider it's Ok to have reasonable discussions with people who aren't sold on every facet of the Bills decision making & roster building process. It's Ok to admit other teams have superior X position players than us. It's Ok to acknowledge we've made mistakes in certain areas.

And none of what I've said is saying "JOSH ALLEN IS A MISTAKE!" Again, I'm neutral on him for at least this year. Would I take someone like Mahomes over him? Absolutely, but I've seen him play for a long time, and now he's doing exactly what he's always done & at the Pro level. If Allen only does exactly what he's always done, but at a Pro Level, it'll be considered a huge failure. He needs to do what he's never done in order to succeed in the NFL, and that's what has my neutral on him. I hope he can, I will support him, and I will support the Bills, but I can only speak for what the evidence shows. On that note, I wish you all the best, I hope at least a couple people take to heart some things I've said, and I look forward to discussing more Bills news with everyone in the future. Have a great day everyone!



 

All of this to say you would take Mahomes, and you're neutral on Allen this year. You could've said that in one sentence. You're bewildered by the Bills fandom because they don't agree with you, think about that. 

[26CornerBlitz]

[quinnearlysghost88]

Also, you want to have a nuanced conversation, and you're holding Mahomes up after 3 games as the second-coming. You know who else has been destroying these past three weeks? Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only player in NFL history to throw for 400+ yards three weeks in a row. Maybe give Mahomes a season before throwing our QB into the sea.

Edited September 26, 2018 by quinnearlysghost88

[PS 56]

My verdict on Mahomes is out until they play Denver and Von Miller.  Mahomes has played fast and loose with the ball scrambling in the backfield more than once.  Maybe I'm wrong but I think his fans will come back down to earth after Sunday's game.

[JXCOL3]

Dang man, cliff note that novel

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

TL;DR

 

Wah. They didn't do what I wanted, so I'll write a novel explaining why.

 

[Matty the Dustmop]

[drf1835]

It's called trusting the process, as we have a gm and coach their 1st year taking their team to the playoffs, and have a plan in place to get rid of the old, worn, unproductive, overpaid, and the ones who do not fit here. Persons here are allowed to have optimism after us beating the Vikings and the rookie Allen getting better each game, and having already having had two hugely memorable plays and participating in a historic upset that most qbs won't have in a lifetime. Allen has the it factor. Maybe it takes you longer to see things.  Whether Mahomes has it or not, who cares. Allen is on this team, will be here hopefully a long time, and he fits in very well with the organization and community so far. The ones who can also see the positives in the currently neutral or negatives are able to look beneath the surface, and will realize that patience is needed too, instead of negative drama.

Edited September 27, 2018 by drf1835

[DuckyBoys]

so basically your upset with people who dont agree with you?

[Seanbillsfan2206]

Too long. Didn’t read

[BuffaloBillyG]

Yea, but would you rather have Elway, Kelly or Marino?

[RiotAct]

Too early to tell.  Ask me again in 3 years.