Beast Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, NoSaint said: How about you show us the misuse of funds that you insist is happening? Misuse and waste are two separate things, son. Waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It dates back to the fevered patriotism of the WWI era "google search on "national anthem sporting event history" found this site, (http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-28-flagprotest.shtml) which had this info:It is generally accepted that its first appearance during a sporting event was the 1918 World Series. To demonstrate major league patriotism, baseball teams had the players march in formation during pre-game military drills while carrying bats on their shoulders. During the seventh-inning stretch of game one, when the band spontaneously began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," the Cubs and Red Sox players stood at attention facing the centerfield flag pole. The crowd sang along and applauded when the singing ended. " I don't think 100 yr old tradition could be "sun-setted" by the NFL at the current time in the current climate without huge controversy They didn't allow blacks to play baseball back then, so maybe we shouldn't revere tradition as much as some think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Welp sorry Stephen Ross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Misuse and waste are two separate things, son. Waste. One might call “lining pockets” instead of using for public good a misuse.... but in full transparency I didn’t expect a consistent and coherent message beyond “activism, bad- merica good” based on our past interactions. Feel free to outline in any detail what you think the $3.5m in seed money for the project will end up going towards. I’ll contribute that unrelated to this specific fund - I’ve seen a variety of playgrounds and after school programs sponsored by the league the last few years in my own city. Which is more good than bad in my opinion. Saving the world? No. But for the modest funds in each city I think having some extra resources for you can help a little. 42 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: Check these out...https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers%3fcontext=amp http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/ I would say one of the top reasons, yes Do you think that police officers would even bother to go into the inner city over weed? Those cops are scared for their lives due to fear of getting shot by people that hate the police. I don't buy that comparison at all I don’t know how so many inner city people are in jail over non violent petty drug offenses if police are scared to go into these communities over drugs. Do the wait for them to come out to the burbs to nab them? Edited July 20, 2018 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, NoSaint said: One might call “lining pockets” instead of using for public good a misuse.... but in full transparency I didn’t expect a consistent and coherent message beyond “activism, bad- merica good” based on our past interactions. Feel free to outline in any detail what you think the $3.5m in seed money for the project will end up going towards. I’ll contribute that unrelated to this specific fund - I’ve seen a variety of playgrounds and after school programs sponsored by the league the last few years in my own city. Which is more good than bad in my opinion. Saving the world? No. But for the modest funds in each city I think having some extra resources for you can help a little. I don’t know how so many inner city people are in jail over non violent petty drug offenses if police are scared to go into these communities over drugs. Do the wait for them to come out to the burbs to nab them? What do you and what does the law consider "petty" drug offenses? Show me your stats and I will stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, White Linen said: You don't get it. When you're at work you're an employee and have to follow the rules of employment. During non working hours if you go to a business you're the customer and don't have to follow that businesses rules. It's not a double standard at all. Lets be real... if pics came out of Kaepernick kneeling in a concourse of a baseball stadium - the outrage would be still be enormous. 9 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: What do you and what does the law consider "petty" drug offenses? Show me your stats and I will stand corrected. Non-violent possession charges would generally be considered so by me. i haven’t read this specific article/slide deck closely but at a glance it appears to cover roughly what I was saying. Just among the first to pop up with a search of “drug arrest statistics by race” which gives a ton of content reflecting that usage tends to be similar but arrests widely disparate between races for non violent drug arrests. https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers Edited July 20, 2018 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Domdab99 said: This. If they have any self-respect at all, the whole team should kneel that first game. If they had any self-respect they would stand at attention to honor the nation that gave the the opportunities they now enjoy. Find another way to denounce the police officers who risk their lives to serve the public. Instead of doing a self-serving clown dance in the end-zone use that moment to bring attention to a cause they "care deeply about". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, HT02 said: If they had any self-respect they would stand at attention to honor the nation that gave the the opportunities they now enjoy. Find another way to denounce the police officers who risk their lives to serve the public. Instead of doing a self-serving clown dance in the end-zone use that moment to bring attention to a cause they "care deeply about". For some reason I suspect you’d still be pretty upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: Do I think most judges wake up thinking “can’t wait to imprison some black people?” No. Do i think judges, and juries and police are subject to biases that negatively impact that minorities more than middle class white guys? Probably in general. heck, I recently saw a study on sentencing the Monday following the local football teams wins and losses and by golly if the saints won you were probably going home to your family sooner across a variety of apples to apples charges being compared. I say that to point out that these are all humans that can and will make unfair decisions based on influences that they may not be conciously thinking about. Its a fair question. A hard one to quantify but absolutely a fair question. And if the crime rates are relatively similar early on, do you then see issues like once in the system you are more likely to see more issues with the law in the future contributing. like is suburban sally smoking weed at a party as likely to see criminal charges as her inner city counterpart dabbling after school? It’s hard to study and pull apart all the factors but there’s compelling data that the war on drugs has been much harder on one community while usage is not wildly different Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 hours ago, DC Tom said: An erudite and perspicacious rebuttal. My compliments on your considerable command of the philosophy of logical formalism. Yes, this is sarcasm. You're a moron. Protesting is an American right, you do not need to be breaking rules to protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, HT02 said: Wrong Insightful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, HT02 said: If they had any self-respect they would stand at attention to honor the nation that gave the the opportunities they now enjoy. Find another way to denounce the police officers who risk their lives to serve the public. Instead of doing a self-serving clown dance in the end-zone use that moment to bring attention to a cause they "care deeply about". Well the vast majority of cops are heroes, the majority would have played pro football if they had the ability. In fact, some of the worst cops are the power hungry former high school player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Protesting is an American right, you do not need to be breaking rules to protest. If you're not breaking rules, then it's just screaming at the clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said: Check these out...https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers%3fcontext=amp http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/ I would say one of the top reasons, yes Do you think that police officers would even bother to go into the inner city over weed? Those cops are scared for their lives due to fear of getting shot by people that hate the police. I don't buy that comparison at all Here’s an article on the disparity of pot arrests in NYC—studies show roughly similar usage rates between blacks, Hispanics and whites, but show blacks and Hispanics getting arrested at much higher rates than whites. The police tried to explain it by the volume of calls on it in different neighborhoods, but the NYT debunked that explanation with their own study. https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/5/14/17353040/racial-disparity-marijuana-arrests-new-york-city-nypd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: Insightful I hope it was; you made an assumption about how I would feel I informed you were incorrect. Does that advance the discussion for you? How should I have expanded on my thought? Would you prefer that I explain that I support the free expression of ideas however I understand that employers may require their employees to refrain from expressing opinions that may offend their customers? You provide an accusatory reply and expect a thoughtful extended response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Lets be real... if pics came out of Kaepernick kneeling in a concourse of a baseball stadium - the outrage would be still be enormous. Non-violent possession charges would generally be considered so by me. i haven’t read this specific article/slide deck closely but at a glance it appears to cover roughly what I was saying. Just among the first to pop up with a search of “drug arrest statistics by race” which gives a ton of content reflecting that usage tends to be similar but arrests widely disparate between races for non violent drug arrests. https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers I agree that nonviolent drug charges clogging up the jails is counter productive. Look at the Violent crimes though. Totally understand that POC are most likely residents in inner city areas. I obviously only look through the eyes of a white male, so I don't understand a lot of POC struggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Well the vast majority of cops are heroes, the majority would have played pro football if they had the ability. In fact, some of the worst cops are the power hungry former high school player. I agree that a majority of cops are heroes but I would love to see some evidence around your second claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, MattM said: Here’s an article on the disparity of pot arrests in NYC—studies show roughly similar usage rates between blacks, Hispanics and whites, but show blacks and Hispanics getting arrested at much higher rates than whites. The police tried to explain it by the volume of calls on it in different neighborhoods, but the NYT debunked that explanation with their own study. https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/5/14/17353040/racial-disparity-marijuana-arrests-new-york-city-nypd I agree with the pot scenario. I think it is an easy way for minorities to get arrested. I think it goes deeper than just pot. I'm talking about gang violence, murder, rape, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: If you're not breaking rules, then it's just screaming at the clouds. Where did you get that concept from Saul Alinsky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The NFL and teams are just making this harder on themselves. This protest would die out quickly, but they are adding fuel to the fire. There were only a few players kneeling by week 17 last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, Dablitzkrieg said: I agree that nonviolent drug charges clogging up the jails is counter productive. Look at the Violent crimes though. Totally understand that POC are most likely residents in inner city areas. I obviously only look through the eyes of a white male, so I don't understand a lot of POC struggles I won’t pretend to be an expert in statistics, criminology or day to day life as a black man. but I think there’s compelling data out there that the war on drugs found us kicking down inner city doors while conversely finding a health epidemic in the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I won’t pretend to be an expert in statistics, criminology or day to day life as a black man. but I think there’s compelling data out there that the war on drugs found us kicking down inner city doors while conversely finding a health epidemic in the suburbs. Point taken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, NoSaint said: They certainly accepted advertising dollars- like they would from most willing advertisers. Why should the nfl be the charitable recruiting arm of the military anyway? Reread my post. IMO, the NFL and by extension the DoD should disclose this deal & not engage in paid patriotism. It took Sen McCain Sen Flake exposing this. http://thehill.com/policy/defense/259120-mccain-flake-slam-so-called-paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events I have no issue with this deal provided it was disclosed to the public. Edited July 20, 2018 by Dr.Sack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Well I'm old I guess. A white guy calling the anthem racist in the comments. That's rich. Especially since the only color mentioned is red. And millennial remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 This whole argument misses the two main points imo: 1) you do not get to protest while at work- I can not protest at my school I teach at-and my impact would be much more powerful than these guys. 2) kneeling during the anthem is protesting the entire country not just the parts they dislike. If you want to improve the police brutality situation then make an effort during days off. This kneeling is not informative or effective. I have to tell my students all the time that if you want things to change you better be able to speak up for your cause and work a hell of lot harder than just kneeling in TV. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: And on this note, I think it's time to shut this down. When the NFL and NFLPA come up with something, I'm sure it will come up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts