Step-by-step, how the Bills knew Josh Allen was right for them

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I know where Rudolph was drafted, but I don’t know where other teams had them ranked. Steelers said they had a 1st rd grade on him.

 

Fair point in general, but if the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Rudolph why did they wait to take him until the 3rd?

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There was a thread about Darnold sometime back and how the NYJ had all this QB work done while Brandon Beane was saying "we're not ready to rank them yet..." blah blah at the Combine.  I called "shenanigans" and said they'd done the work, Beane might not be ready to do a final ranking but they'd been doing homework, watching film, live games as much as any team in need of a QB.

 

From this, it would appear "shenanigans" was the right call.

 

 

I thought the same thing.  People here really misconstrued what Beane said.  

 

However, I also didn't trust people here who said his accuracy problems, to the extent he actually has any, we're due to footwork.  Beane confirms that that IS the problem and that he's already gone a long way toward fixing it. 

 

Thanks Yolo!

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair point in general, but if the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Rudolph why did they wait to take him until the 3rd?

 

They liked him and had him graded as a 1st rd talent, but QB wasn't a pressing need, however, they couldn't resist when he fell to the 3rd?

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He says more than McDermott.  There are little nuggets in Beane's pressers.  You have to read between the lines but they are there.  McDermott speaks for 18 minutes, give or take, every Monday of the season and says absolutely nothing at all.  It is quite a skill. 

I agree, except that McD DOES say some things about the "process" that are revealing.  Never anything about players.  

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair point in general, but if the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Rudolph why did they wait to take him until the 3rd?

They lied? Or they knew he would be there later based on intel from other teams. I also don’t think they wanted to take a qb in the 1st for Ben’s psyche. They did well by getting him a WR first to replace pothead (but it was Rudolph’s WR from ok state so)

9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

They liked him and had him graded as a 1st rd talent, but QB wasn't a pressing need, however, they couldn't resist when he fell to the 3rd?

They took a S in the first, no? They had no choice there. Their secondary has doomed them since Polamalu retired. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Apparently they also had Jackson off their board then?

 

Interesting QB scouting evaluations per your source considering that Mayfield went 1st overall and Mason Rudolph fell to the 3rd.

 

 

Why were Jackson, Mayfield, and Rosen off their board, and why did they have Rudolph ranked 2 rounds higher than anyone else?

 

 

My source was that Mayfield and Rosen were both subject to concerns about their fit in the organisation and willingness to buy into the process.  I don't know that they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph either (though I have heard since that 5 franchises did) but just that they were willing to take him later in the first.  He would not have been the pick at 12.  I understand the Bills were not high on Jackson at any stage.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

They liked him and had him graded as a 1st rd talent, but QB wasn't a pressing need, however, they couldn't resist when he fell to the 3rd?

 

Haha good point.  NYGiants, Steelers, and Baltimore - three teams whose "pressing" need for QB may appear different externally than internally.  I may think their need is more pressing than they do.  Big Ben is a beast, but he's getting flakier and flakier - "maybe I'll retire" is an increasing crescendo, and he essentially just ran their highly successful OC out of town (and they let him).   Baltimore took Jackson at the bottom of the 1st.   If the Steelers really liked Rudolph, had him graded as a 1st, I would kind of have expected them to trade up and take him in the 2nd - but maybe it's as Yolo says, they were catering to Big Ben and his Ego (doesn't that sound like a punk Rock Band?).

 

On the other hand, they got James Washington in the 2nd and OMG do I have a thing for that guy as a WR.  He made Rudolph look like a 1st round grade QB IMO.

[Jay_Fixit]

I always thought they read jrober38’s posts and did the opposite.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They lied? Or they knew he would be there later based on intel from other teams. I also don’t think they wanted to take a qb in the 1st for Ben’s psyche. They did well by getting him a WR first to replace pothead (but it was Rudolph’s WR from ok state so)

They took a S in the first, no? They had no choice there. Their secondary has doomed them since Polamalu retired. 

 

Hey, hey.  I thought all these teams drafted BPA because doing otherwise dooms a team to mediocrity.  Think I read that here, or in a Buddy Nix interview, or somewhere.

 

They drafted Terrel Edmunds, Tremaine's brother.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, eball said:

But, but, but...COMPLETION PERCENTAGE!!!!!

Yup!  Who cares how a qb performed in college??? I only want good guys who clean the city of Buffalo!

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

That's all fine and good, but where is his plan to fix the NCAA?

He was too busy tweeting racist stuff!

[Shaw66]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My source was that Mayfield and Rosen were both subject to concerns about their fit in the organisation and willingness to buy into the process.  I don't know that they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph either (though I have heard since that 5 franchises did) but just that they were willing to take him later in the first.  He would not have been the pick at 12.  I understand the Bills were not high on Jackson at any stage.

This doesn't surprise me. I listen pretty carefully to what they say about the process, and Mayfield and Rosen each had issues that suggested they wouldn't fit. McB have been clear that fitting the system is a critical component in their decision making. 

 

So Darnold and Allen at the top of their board makes sense. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I thought the same thing.  People here really misconstrued what Beane said.  

 

However, I also didn't trust people here who said his accuracy problems, to the extent he actually has any, we're due to footwork.  Beane confirms that that IS the problem and that he's already gone a long way toward fixing it. 

 

Thanks Yolo!

 

See, here's my thing about that and FWIW I believe Buffalo716 has said similar....Bandit thinks footwork IIRC.

 

With Lamar Jackson, if I stop the film just before he throws, if I can see his feet and hips I can tell you right then if it will be an accurate throw or not.

With Josh Allen, I could NOT do that.  That said....the Bills brass should have an added dimension where they could rule out throws that went "WTF?" because they were anticipation throws and the WR or RB did not run the route Allen expected, as he expected it.  In "The Wakeup Call" series with Kirk Cousins, Allen and Cousins break down a play where IIRC Allen said he and the RB were not on the same page reacting to the coverage.   Also, Palmer said something about Allen overstrides with his front foot and the mechanics issues that follow - I would NOT see an "overstride" from an appropriate stride in a 6'5" guy.

 

But really Shaw...would you expect anything but positivity from Beane at this point?  I mean, I wouldn't expect Beane to say "yeah, he ran a pro-style offense, but his line was such crap and the offense so simplified that we really have no clue if he can progress in his reads like a real NFL pocket passer needs to, or not"

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

With Lamar Jackson, if I stop the film just before he throws, if I can see his feet and hips I can tell you right then if it will be an accurate throw or not.

With Josh Allen, I could NOT do that. 

 

 

And I was exactly the same Hapless.  That is why I called it "natural inaccuracy".

[eball]

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup!  Who cares how a qb performed in college??? I only want good guys who clean the city of Buffalo!

 

 

As far as I know Josh Allen hasn't so much as picked up a broom.  Bust!

[26CornerBlitz]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

As far as I know Josh Allen hasn't so much as picked up a broom.  Bust!

 

Broom or bust!

[Shaw66]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

See, .

 

But really Shaw...would you expect anything but positivity from Beane at this point?  I mean, I wouldn't expect Beane to say "yeah, he ran a pro-style offense, but his line was such crap and the offense so simplified that we really have no clue if he can progress in his reads like a real NFL pocket passer needs to, or not"

 

 

 

 

I DO believe Beane.  Everything I have heard from him seems like he is completely straight when he talks.  McD is all coach-speak, but not Beane. 

 

Particularly in this case.  Beane is VERY serious about how he uses his picks, and if he had major problems with Allen, he wouldn't have moved up for him.  It's obvious by  where they took him that they really liked him,  so what he says in this interview is totally believable to me.  

[Sky Diver]

49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup!  Who cares how a qb performed in college??? I only want good guys who clean the city of Buffalo!

He was too busy tweeting racist stuff!

 

His teammates don’t think what he did as a young teen has any significance, but you seem awfully concerned about it. If I thought my QB was a racist, I would be looking for another team. Curious how you can support the Bills given your malice towards Allen.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I DO believe Beane.  Everything I have heard from him seems like he is completely straight when he talks.  McD is all coach-speak, but not Beane. 

 

Particularly in this case.  Beane is VERY serious about how he uses his picks, and if he had major problems with Allen, he wouldn't have moved up for him.  It's obvious by  where they took him that they really liked him,  so what he says in this interview is totally believable to me.  

 

I think you're missing a distinction here, Shaw.  I'm not saying that Beane isn't straight when he talks.  I think he is.

But he is *careful* what he says, and very precise.

 

[John from Riverside]

There is some really good stuff in that article.......

 

It is as I always thought about the completion percentage.....they didnt give him a lot of stuff that is easy to complete to keep that up.....pro style offense......

 

The only thing is....now we need to see him complete the easy stuff so we know he can do it....i will trust our staff

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair point in general, but if the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Rudolph why did they wait to take him until the 3rd?

They also had first round grades on the guys they drafted in the first and second rounds?  Rudolph was drafted to be developed for the future and not to play right away, while the priority in the first couple rounds was to draft players who would contribute immediately?  I don't know, but that's what I would speculate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

His teammates don’t think what he did as a young teen has any significance, but you seem awfully concerned about it. If I thought my QB was a racist, I would be looking for another team. Curious how you can support the Bills given your malice towards Allen.

 

I think it's possible you have missed a bit of a sar chasm here.

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I DO believe Beane.  Everything I have heard from him seems like he is completely straight when he talks.  McD is all coach-speak, but not Beane. 

 

Particularly in this case.  Beane is VERY serious about how he uses his picks, and if he had major problems with Allen, he wouldn't have moved up for him.  It's obvious by  where they took him that they really liked him,  so what he says in this interview is totally believable to me.  

I believe he believes. I pray he’s correct in his belief. 

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it's possible you have missed a bit of a sar chasm here.

 

Not so sure with this character.

[DC Tom]

They missed the most important step: "Consulting with the experts on TSW."  

[eball]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There is some really good stuff in that article.......

 

It is as I always thought about the completion percentage.....they didnt give him a lot of stuff that is easy to complete to keep that up.....pro style offense......

 

The only thing is....now we need to see him complete the easy stuff so we know he can do it....i will trust our staff

 

John, while I've come around on Allen from my pre-draft skepticism, I'm still "wary" of his admittedly pedestrian college stats.  I do like the fact, though, that those who dig a little deeper are recognizing that Allen didn't get the same type of "easy" throws that beef up comp. % the way the other top QBs did.

 

Of course Beane is going to talk up the Bills' evaluation of Allen to appease fans and raise their comfort level with the pick.

 

I'm very excited for TC to start and we can see what he has learned so far.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, eball said:

 

John, while I've come around on Allen from my pre-draft skepticism, I'm still "wary" of his admittedly pedestrian college stats.  I do like the fact, though, that those who dig a little deeper are recognizing that Allen didn't get the same type of "easy" throws that beef up comp. % the way the other top QBs did.

 

Of course Beane is going to talk up the Bills' evaluation of Allen to appease fans and raise their comfort level with the pick.

 

I'm very excited for TC to start and we can see what he has learned so far.

When I look at his college numbers.....I look at two things

 

Scheme - how many throws were in there to make it easy to complete (like for instance in Sam Darnold's offense)

 

and

 

Last year the numbers were not great......but the year before that he had good numbers....the difference?   The level of talent in his pass catcher's

 

 

[Sky Diver]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

When I look at his college numbers.....I look at two things

 

Scheme - how many throws were in there to make it easy to complete (like for instance in Sam Darnold's offense)

 

and

 

Last year the numbers were not great......but the year before that he had good numbers....the difference?   The level of talent in his pass catcher's

 

 

 

And the offensive line.

[C.Biscuit97]

55 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

His teammates don’t think what he did as a young teen has any significance, but you seem awfully concerned about it. If I thought my QB was a racist, I would be looking for another team. Curious how you can support the Bills given your malice towards Allen.

Here’s why I said that.  In a thread about Allen, you felt the need to knock Rosen.  I agree on I don’t think Allen is a racist. But:

 

1) I get that people are excited but so much stuff is fluff pieces.  Which Bills Qb didn’t work hard or try to embrace the city?  I’m sick of fluff and want results.

 

2). Allen had some real issues in college.  Sub 60% college passers (in the last 10 years, I’m sure someone will bring up Otto Graham’s stats in college as counter) fail at a tremendous rate in the nfl.  Folks make a lot of excuses for his performance.  But a sub 60% passer, sub 2,000 yard passer in the MWC going 7th overall worries me.

 

3) besides perhaps Dawkins, their offensive evaluations have been terrible.  Fully on board with the defense but this is the problem with an offensive coach.

 

4) I think we should have taken Rosen.  It bothers me that the Bills seem like they didn’t evaluate him as much as other qbs. I thought Allen was the worst” but you still completely evaluate him.

 

5) i feel like Rosen “fell” because a) fans/ coaches didn’t think he was totally devoted to football (I get that to an extent) or b) disagrees with his politics or things he said (which is pathetic).  I’m guessing I’m not on the same page with Allen politically but that would have no factor in my view of him as a prospect.

 

ive been on this board for a long time.  I’ve been called a homer many, many times.  I love this team much more than I should.  I hate feeling like the Bills blew one of the most important picks in franchise history on a flawed qb, which is a pattern for this team.  But as I’ve said many times, I’d rather have the Bills succeed but than be right.  I hate this feeling.

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Here’s why I said that.  In a thread about Allen, you felt the need to knock Rosen.  I agree on I don’t think Allen is a racist. But:

 

1) I get that people are excited but so much stuff is fluff pieces.  Which Bills Qb didn’t work hard or try to embrace the city?  I’m sick of fluff and want results.

 

2). Allen had some real issues in college.  Sub 60% college passers (in the last 10 years, I’m sure someone will bring up Otto Graham’s stats in college as counter) fail at a tremendous rate in the nfl.  Folks make a lot of excuses for his performance.  But a sub 60% passer, sub 2,000 yard passer in the MWC going 7th overall worries me.

 

3) besides perhaps Dawkins, their offensive evaluations have been terrible.  Fully on board with the defense but this is the problem with an offensive coach.

 

4) I think we should have taken Rosen.  It bothers me that the Bills seem like they didn’t evaluate him as much as other qbs. I thought Allen was the worst” but you still completely evaluate him.

 

5) i feel like Rosen “fell” because a) fans/ coaches didn’t think he was totally devoted to football (I get that to an extent) or b) disagrees with his politics or things he said (which is pathetic).  I’m guessing I’m not on the same page with Allen politically but that would have no factor in my view of him as a prospect.

 

ive been on this board for a long time.  I’ve been called a homer many, many times.  I love this team much more than I should.  I hate feeling like the Bills blew one of the most important picks in franchise history on a flawed qb, which is a pattern for this team.  But as I’ve said many times, I’d rather have the Bills succeed but than be right.  I hate this feeling.

It would not shock me at all to see AJM start the season......

 

And I wont crucify Josh Allen for that....QBs mature at different rates and to give him some time to get his feet under him would not be a bad thing at all.

 

I am actually hoping AJM is a uncovered gem....which will give us some time

[BillsFan17]

4 hours ago, eball said:

But, but, but...COMPLETION PERCENTAGE!!!!!

In no does that stat go ignored regardless of the article. The Bills clearly understand there is a lot of work to do with Allen despite the excuses they make for him.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

It would not shock me at all to see AJM start the season......

 

And I wont crucify Josh Allen for that....QBs mature at different rates and to give him some time to get his feet under him would not be a bad thing at all.

 

I am actually hoping AJM is a uncovered gem....which will give us some time

 

If Josh Allen doesn't start on day one, he's a bust.  Period.  You don't draft a project at #7 overall.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

If Josh Allen doesn't start on day one, he's a bust.  Period.  You don't draft a project at #7 overall.

Negative.....if when he does start he does not play at an NFL level...THEN he is a bust

[Gugny]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Negative.....if when he does start he does not play at an NFL level...THEN he is a bust

 

I was joking, Juan.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I was joking, Juan.

Im sorry sir!

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Im sorry sir!

 

But I think there's quite a few people who believe that.

[Sky Diver]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Here’s why I said that.  In a thread about Allen, you felt the need to knock Rosen.  I agree on I don’t think Allen is a racist. But:

 

1) I get that people are excited but so much stuff is fluff pieces.  Which Bills Qb didn’t work hard or try to embrace the city?  I’m sick of fluff and want results.

 

2). Allen had some real issues in college.  Sub 60% college passers (in the last 10 years, I’m sure someone will bring up Otto Graham’s stats in college as counter) fail at a tremendous rate in the nfl.  Folks make a lot of excuses for his performance.  But a sub 60% passer, sub 2,000 yard passer in the MWC going 7th overall worries me.

 

3) besides perhaps Dawkins, their offensive evaluations have been terrible.  Fully on board with the defense but this is the problem with an offensive coach.

 

4) I think we should have taken Rosen.  It bothers me that the Bills seem like they didn’t evaluate him as much as other qbs. I thought Allen was the worst” but you still completely evaluate him.

 

5) i feel like Rosen “fell” because a) fans/ coaches didn’t think he was totally devoted to football (I get that to an extent) or b) disagrees with his politics or things he said (which is pathetic).  I’m guessing I’m not on the same page with Allen politically but that would have no factor in my view of him as a prospect.

 

ive been on this board for a long time.  I’ve been called a homer many, many times.  I love this team much more than I should.  I hate feeling like the Bills blew one of the most important picks in franchise history on a flawed qb, which is a pattern for this team.  But as I’ve said many times, I’d rather have the Bills succeed but than be right.  I hate this feeling.

 

 

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

 

 

Why would you say that you don’t think you are on the same page politically as Allen? Has Allen ever said anything about his political beliefs?

 

Poking fun at opposing players is a long standing tradition, even former Bills’ players. I’m not sure why having some fun at Rosen’s expense is such an issue. No one seems to get riled up by making fun of Brady. There is a double standard for some reason.

[C.Biscuit97]

43 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

 

 

Why would you say that you don’t think you are on the same page politically as Allen? Has Allen ever said anything about his political beliefs?

 

Poking fun at opposing players is a long standing tradition, even former Bills’ players. I’m not sure why having some fun at Rosen’s expense is such an issue. No one seems to get riled up by making fun of Brady. There is a double standard for some reason.

You bring up Rosen all the time because he knocked the education Alabama football players get. 

 

But it bigger picture, the Allen vs Rosen debate will be a big debate for this team going forward.  And yup, I could be wrong on Allen but I’m guessing a guy from rural California has a different political than a guy who grew up in a diverse north Buffalo neighborhood.

[Fadingpain]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You bring up Rosen all the time because he knocked the education Alabama football players get. 

 

But it bigger picture, the Allen vs Rosen debate will be a big debate for this team going forward.  And yup, I could be wrong on Allen but I’m guessing a guy from rural California has a different political than a guy who grew up in a diverse north Buffalo neighborhood.

I have a good friend from Birmingham, AL.

He tells me the really smart kids in Alabama get the hell out and go to a real school elsewhere.

The sort of smart kids stick around home and go to Auburn.

 

The bottom feeders go to University of Alabama.  LOL.

 

Roll tide!
 

 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

The vetting process started back in August of last year

So, what did the Buffalo Bills see in Allen that ultimately led general manager Brandon Beane to trade up and select him with the No. 7 overall pick?

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/step-step-how-bills-knew-allen-was-right-them

What was evident from the article was that this regime was committed to coming out of this draft with a qb. Getting their guy was their priority right from the start. It seems to me that even if a higher rated player was on the board, such as Barkley or Chubb, they were focusing on determining which qb was the best fit for them. Prior regimes under Marv, Nix and Whaley dithered on the issue and didn't come close to the level of evaluation that this regime put in on the position. That is one of the reasons why I'm so encouraged about them. They had a plan and they exquisitely executed it. No fumbling and bumbling in the process. 

3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I have a good friend from Birmingham, AL.

He tells me the really smart kids in Alabama get the hell out and go to a real school elsewhere.

The sort of smart kids stick around home and go to Auburn.

 

The bottom feeders go to University of Alabama.  LOL.

 

Roll tide!
 

 

If Sky Diver leaves a package at your door and it is ticking my suggestion is to run in the opposite direction. 

[Big C]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

They lied? Or they knew he would be there later based on intel from other teams. I also don’t think they wanted to take a qb in the 1st for Ben’s psyche. They did well by getting him a WR first to replace pothead (but it was Rudolph’s WR from ok state so)

They took a S in the first, no? They had no choice there. Their secondary has doomed them since Polamalu retired. 

 

Ben's pshyche was still hurt by them drafting Mason in the 3rd!

 

I do think Rudolph was a value pick for them in the third.

 

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hey, hey.  I thought all these teams drafted BPA because doing otherwise dooms a team to mediocrity.  Think I read that here, or in a Buddy Nix interview, or somewhere.

 

They drafted Terrel Edmunds, Tremaine's brother.

 

Interestingly, I do think the Steelers' picks over the last few years have been very unimpressive. Granted, they weren't in any position to take the elite talent of any draft being in the 20s usually, but it seems like the Steelers aren't knocking any picks out of the park lately. The 2017 draft class might be alright, but 2015-2016, yikes.