4merper4mer Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I know it does. So I was a bit hesitant when I first heard. I mean, I disliked the choice because I find his ruling on contraceptives to be laughably stupid, but there was a grain of salt. And then two more, independent claims cane in. And then the FBI has not allowed to corroborate or disprove them. Then I saw this rambling incoherent mess of explanations. I'm sorry for you man, but at this point the way Kavanaugh handled it is indefensible. And yet....so many nutbags are intent on doing so. FBI stuff is beyond stupid. A member of the Senate judiciary committee asked a candidate to turn to a staff member of the executive branch and ask for a specific type of investigation. So:. Legislator asks member of the judiciary to tell executive to usurp the power of the legislature. That sounds like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Joe Manchin is a yes: https://mobile.twitter.com/elainaplott/status/1045478279220797440 Donnelly, Collins, Murkowski also expected to vote the same https://mobile.twitter.com/burgessev/status/1045482455078236163 Oh yeah, and Bob Corker is a yes https://mobile.twitter.com/SenBobCorker/status/1045475440528412678 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Sad moment for the nation. Both stories from today have holes and some lies, but neither testimony was utterly damning or convincing. I found them both credible. Both sides' politicians did nothing to lead today. Nothing to heal a divide. No one took a shot at hearing the other side. Everyone suited up in battle armor and grandstanded while the Dems moved their piece against the R's piece. No end in sight for this divide because there's no one stepping into any middle ground leadership role and neither side wants to hear the other. Gross political day. I'll be happy when this vote is in the rearview mirror. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Floor vote Saturday? I didn't see that coming https://mobile.twitter.com/elainaplott/status/1045465154341810177 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Floor vote Saturday? I didn't see that coming https://mobile.twitter.com/elainaplott/status/1045465154341810177 That's procedural. Vote will be next week, assuming they don't delay for any reason. Edited September 28, 2018 by BeginnersMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Sad moment for the nation. Both stories from today have holes and some lies, but neither testimony was utterly damning or convincing. I found them both credible. Both sides' politicians did nothing to lead today. Nothing to heal a divide. No one took a shot at hearing the other side. Everyone suited up in battle armor and grandstanded while the Dems moved their piece against the R's piece. No end in sight for this divide because there's no one stepping into any middle ground leadership role and neither side wants to hear the other. Gross political day. I'll be happy when this vote is in the rearview mirror. The cant both be credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 They should confirm Kavanaugh on a vote early next week and end this lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I know it does. So I was a bit hesitant when I first heard. I mean, I disliked the choice because I find his ruling on contraceptives to be laughably stupid, but there was a grain of salt. And then two more, independent claims cane in. And then the FBI has not allowed to corroborate or disprove them. Then I saw this rambling incoherent mess of explanations. I'm sorry for you man, but at this point the way Kavanaugh handled it is indefensible. And yet....so many nutbags are intent on doing so. The FBI does not corroborate or disprove criminal violations of state law. It does not investigate criminal complaints in a background investigation. That is NOT THE SCOPE of a background investigation. A background investigation is not a criminal investigation. If, in a background investigation, the FBI discovers I have six missing hookers buried in my backyard, they will NOT investigate that. They will refer it to the appropriate jurisdiction in a big goddamn hurry for criminal investigation, but they will not perform the investigation, because a background investigation is not a criminal investigation. Investigating this accusation was not in the scope of the FBI's background check, and was not in the FBI's jurisdiction. Period. What SHOULD have happened was that a criminal complaint was filed in the state of MD, who has jurisdiction (and no statute of limitations on felony charges). Once that investigation was opened, it would have been in NCIC within 48 hours, then into Kavanaugh's BI package when the FBI ran the NCIC check. Then it's 1) in front of the Senate committee sooner, 2) a matter of official record, and 3) not an accusation, but a criminal investigation. Imagine the difference between "confirming a nominee who's accused of rape" and "confirming a nominee who's under criminal investigation for a felony." That is how badly !@#$ed-up this was: Democrats consciously ignored all rules of criminal justice and procedure, to attempt a trial by mob rule, for a strictly political result. They flagrantly violated Senate rules, violated victims' rights, violated HIPAA, violated all fundamental Constitutional principles of due process, and tainted a criminal case beyond repair, to stop a judicial nomination. And you fell for it. All of it. You're a complete idiot. 11 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Gross political day. I'll be happy when this vote is in the rearview mirror. You think this is the end of it? This shitshow's just getting started. In a couple of years, you'll look back fondly on today, remembering "It wasn't so bad back then..." 5 minutes ago, whatdrought said: The cant both be credible. Yes they can. They can't both be true. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC Tom said: The FBI does not corroborate or disprove criminal violations of state law. It does not investigate criminal complaints in a background investigation. That is NOT THE SCOPE of a background investigation. A background investigation is not a criminal investigation. If, in a background investigation, the FBI discovers I have six missing hookers buried in my backyard, they will NOT investigate that. They will refer it to the appropriate jurisdiction in a big goddamn hurry for criminal investigation, but they will not perform the investigation, because a background investigation is not a criminal investigation. Investigating this accusation was not in the scope of the FBI's background check, and was not in the FBI's jurisdiction. Period. What SHOULD have happened was that a criminal complaint was filed in the state of MD, who has jurisdiction (and no statute of limitations on felony charges). Once that investigation was opened, it would have been in NCIC within 48 hours, then into Kavanaugh's BI package when the FBI ran the NCIC check. Then it's 1) in front of the Senate committee sooner, 2) a matter of official record, and 3) not an accusation, but a criminal investigation. Imagine the difference between "confirming a nominee who's accused of rape" and "confirming a nominee who's under criminal investigation for a felony." That is how badly !@#$ed-up this was: Democrats consciously ignored all rules of criminal justice and procedure, to attempt a trial by mob rule, for a strictly political result. They flagrantly violated Senate rules, violated victims' rights, violated HIPAA, violated all fundamental Constitutional principles of due process, and tainted a criminal case beyond repair, to stop a judicial nomination. And you fell for it. All of it. You're a complete idiot. So, did they hop in the car for Maryland when they left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Would Ford’s case have even qualified for felony charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I know it does. So I was a bit hesitant when I first heard. I mean, I disliked the choice because I find his ruling on contraceptives to be laughably stupid, but there was a grain of salt. And then two more, independent claims cane in. And then the FBI has not allowed to corroborate or disprove them. Then I saw this rambling incoherent mess of explanations. I'm sorry for you man, but at this point the way Kavanaugh handled it is indefensible. And yet....so many nutbags are intent on doing so. Speaking of rambling and incoherent. Those two independent claims are ludicrous on their face. The FBI has conducted six background investigations on Kavanaugh and there is nothing here to investigate. The four witnesses named by the accuser stated it never happened. Time to move on and confirm him already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: That's procedural. Vote will be next week, assuming they don't delay for any reason. Democrats will be absent en masse, to try to prevent a quorum. Note that the Constitution says a quorum is 51 Senators. Note that we've learned the last two weeks that the Democrats give exactly no ***** about Constitutional requirements. So they'll try anyway. They won't block the vote, and they know that. They'll absent themselves so they can go back to Democratic voters and campaign on "The Republicans stole your participation in government by voting without a quorum!" And note that this will work, because we've learned the last two weeks that the Democratic voters give exactly no ***** about Constitutional requirements either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 @DC Tom Credible implies believable- at this point in time it is not possible to believe both of the stories as they are absolutely contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Doc said: Would Ford’s case have even qualified for felony charges? Honestly...it depends on the DA. A third degree felony sexual assault includes "suffocate...in the course of the crime" and a "aided and abetted by another," both of which can be borne out by the accusation (he put his hand over her mouth; someone else was there.) It's a stretch...but in a blue state like MD (Republican governor aside), I'd expect it a stretch they'd make in this case. And there's no "fourth degree" felony sexual assult...the next lowest is misdemeanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Would Ford’s case have even qualified for felony charges? No. Aside from statute of limitation issues, there is literally no evidence - merely an allegation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Honestly...it depends on the DA. A third degree felony sexual assault includes "suffocate...in the course of the crime" and a "aided and abetted by another," both of which can be borne out by the accusation (he put his hand over her mouth; someone else was there.) It's a stretch...but in a blue state like MD (Republican governor aside), I'd expect it a stretch they'd make in this case. And there's no "fourth degree" felony sexual assult...the next lowest is misdemeanor. Even for a minor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: @DC Tom Credible implies believable- at this point in time it is not possible to believe both of the stories as they are absolutely contradictory. "Credible" means "capable of being true." It does NOT mean "true." Two opposing statements can easily be capable of being true even if only one of them can be true. Usually, this is because of the principle known as "not enough information." You want me to mathematically prove it? I hope not - it's an easy proof, but a stone cold B word to type on a keyboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Bet it won't be anything factual, like "We have a criminal justice system based on liberal principles that the Democrats completely threw out and turned the Senate into a clown show." I think she missed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Even for a minor? Yep. Only distinction the statute makes on the age of the defendant is whether or not the defendant is 4 or more years older than the victim. 17 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: So, did they hop in the car for Maryland when they left? Probably took a helicopter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 How !@#$ing stupid do you have to be to be COACHED ON LIVE NATIONAL TV TO RAISE YOUR HAD FOR THE OATH???!!! Jesus farking Christ have you no independent brain function to activate your right hand??? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, DC Tom said: "Credible" means "capable of being true." It does NOT mean "true." Two opposing statements can easily be capable of being true even if only one of them can be true. Usually, this is because of the principle known as "not enough information." You want me to mathematically prove it? I hope not - it's an easy proof, but a stone cold B word to type on a keyboard. I am corrected. What you said makes sense! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, bdutton said: How !@#$ing stupid do you have to be to be COACHED ON LIVE NATIONAL TV TO RAISE YOUR HAD FOR THE OATH???!!! Jesus farking Christ have you no independent brain function to activate your right hand??? She is woman with some serious psychological issues who is being exploited to destroy a man's career... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Twitter says GWB is whipping the final votes for Trump. Yeah. That's right, you nutbag leftists. You've managed to do the one thing no one else has been able to do. Unite the right. Well done. Meanwhile, just to cover bases... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 39 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Yep. Only distinction the statute makes on the age of the defendant is whether or not the defendant is 4 or more years older than the victim. While I suppose anything is possible, I can't see this being ruled a felony and thus exempt from the statute of limitations, with not only no evidence on the accuser's side, but witnesses she mentions denying her claims and the alleged attacker also being a minor. I'd need to see a precedent. 26 minutes ago, bdutton said: How !@#$ing stupid do you have to be to be COACHED ON LIVE NATIONAL TV TO RAISE YOUR HAD FOR THE OATH???!!! Jesus farking Christ have you no independent brain function to activate your right hand??? She's a Dem so doing anything involving the right... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 TOWNHALL: GOP has the votes. Totally thought Kavanaugh was toast today. Happy to apparently be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Joe, I love you, I do. But is there a chance you bring it out in them? Recall our early posting history Ehhh..,my circles are different than joes and I get the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I am corrected. What you said makes sense! Dammit. I wanted to show the math. 8 minutes ago, Doc said: While I suppose anything is possible, I can't see this being ruled a felony and thus exempt from the statute of limitations, with not only no evidence on the accuser's side, but witnesses she mentions denying her claims and the alleged attacker also being a minor. I'd need to see a precedent. It may not be charged a felony. But it can certainly be investigated as one. And I strongly suspect a blue state would do everything possible to make this charge a felony against a Republican court nominee. 15 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: Twitter says GWB is whipping the final votes for Trump. Yeah. That's right, you nutbag leftists. You've managed to do the one thing no one else has been able to do. Unite the right. Well done. Meanwhile, just to cover bases... That is a beautiful "!@#$ off" letter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: And others have have picked up on that calendar, and it was the Republican invited guest that found this!! Wow!! https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaughs-calendar-for-july-1-1982-go-to-timmys-for-skis-with-judge.html i remember him saying this, that it had to be a weekend. And some they had jobs they couldn't stay out late and as a retired beer drinker thinking back on many parties i went to on week nights and had no problem getting up for real work (NOT mowing lawns). You can do that when you're going and bullet proof. too bad one of the Dems didn't notice that 7/1 entry. Probably too busy thinking of FIB Investigations instead of paying attention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 The best case scenario for D's in the midterms is for Kavanaugh to be confirmed under these circumstances. They weren't going to win the senate. As awful as Kavanaugh may be, there's 50 just like him waiting in the wings. People don't vote to reward the wonderful things your party has done. The right will be greatly demotivated. The fact that Roe V Wade is actually in jeopardy will galvanize the huge swash of left leaning non-voters to get off their a*s. Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: TOWNHALL: GOP has the votes. Totally thought Kavanaugh was toast today. Happy to apparently be wrong. I knew that her lack of credibility (lying about why she couldn't make it Monday, changing her story, anti-Trump activities that had been scrubbed from social media and even her witnesses denying her claims) to go along with the complete lack of any evidence would win the day. For me the only thing was whether they would !@#$ it up, and that lawyer did her best to do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: The best case scenario for D's in the midterms is for Kavanaugh to be confirmed under these circumstances. They weren't going to win the senate. As awful as Kavanaugh may be, there's 50 just like him waiting in the wings. People don't vote to reward the wonderful things your party has done. The right will be greatly demotivated. The fact that Roe V Wade is actually in jeopardy will galvanize the huge swash of left leaning non-voters to get off their a*s. Well played. I'm not sure...one effect of this shitshow is that the right is really pissed of at Democrats' manipulation, and while anger doesn't last forever, it can last the six weeks until elections. This'll be another turnout-driven election, and I would be surprised if we didn't see shockingly high turnout for mid-term elections for both parties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 It's also possible that men realize that an unsupported claim of sexual assault could ruin their careers and lives and get them to the polls. I guess we'll see in 6 weeks time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: And others have have picked up on that calendar, and it was the Republican invited guest that found this!! Wow!! https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaughs-calendar-for-july-1-1982-go-to-timmys-for-skis-with-judge.html i remember him saying this, that it had to be a weekend. They had jobs so they couldn't stay out late and as a retired beer drinker thinking back on many parties i went to on week nights and had no problem getting up for real work (NOT mowing lawns). You can do that when you're going and bullet proof. too bad one of the Dems didn't notice that 7/1 entry. Probably too busy thinking of FIB Investigations instead of paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: i remember him saying this, that it had to be a weekend. And some they had jobs they couldn't stay out late and as a retired beer drinker thinking back on many parties i went to on week nights and had no problem getting up for real work (NOT mowing lawns). You can do that when you're going and bullet proof. too bad one of the Dems didn't notice that 7/1 entry. Probably too busy thinking of FIB Investigations instead of paying attention. Retired beer drinker, hah. Looks like you moved to something stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: i remember him saying this, that it had to be a weekend. And some they had jobs they couldn't stay out late and as a retired beer drinker thinking back on many parties i went to on week nights and had no problem getting up for real work (NOT mowing lawns). You can do that when you're going and bullet proof. too bad one of the Dems didn't notice that 7/1 entry. Probably too busy thinking of FIB Investigations instead of paying attention. Interesting...did Ford finally decide it was 1982 and not 1983? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: I'm not sure...one effect of this shitshow is that the right is really pissed of at Democrats' manipulation, and while anger doesn't last forever, it can last the six weeks until elections. This'll be another turnout-driven election, and I would be surprised if we didn't see shockingly high turnout for mid-term elections for both parties. You may be right. I tend to think a controversial loss is more galvanizing politically than a victory, but both sides will definitely be motivated. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, LSHMEAB said: You may be right. I tend to think a controversial loss is more galvanizing politically than a victory, but both sides will definitely be motivated. Should be interesting. This wasn't a "victory" for anybody. Everyone came away pissed-off and oppressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Interesting...did Ford finally decide it was 1982 and not 1983? Exactly the point. He doesn’t have to prove that he wasn’t assaulting someone on any day of any year. She has to prove that he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: The FBI does not corroborate or disprove criminal violations of state law. It does not investigate criminal complaints in a background investigation. That is NOT THE SCOPE of a background investigation. A background investigation is not a criminal investigation. If, in a background investigation, the FBI discovers I have six missing hookers buried in my backyard, they will NOT investigate that. They will refer it to the appropriate jurisdiction in a big goddamn hurry for criminal investigation, but they will not perform the investigation, because a background investigation is not a criminal investigation. Investigating this accusation was not in the scope of the FBI's background check, and was not in the FBI's jurisdiction. Period. What SHOULD have happened was that a criminal complaint was filed in the state of MD, who has jurisdiction (and no statute of limitations on felony charges). Once that investigation was opened, it would have been in NCIC within 48 hours, then into Kavanaugh's BI package when the FBI ran the NCIC check. Then it's 1) in front of the Senate committee sooner, 2) a matter of official record, and 3) not an accusation, but a criminal investigation. Imagine the difference between "confirming a nominee who's accused of rape" and "confirming a nominee who's under criminal investigation for a felony." That is how badly !@#$ed-up this was: Democrats consciously ignored all rules of criminal justice and procedure, to attempt a trial by mob rule, for a strictly political result. They flagrantly violated Senate rules, violated victims' rights, violated HIPAA, violated all fundamental Constitutional principles of due process, and tainted a criminal case beyond repair, to stop a judicial nomination. Holy ****. I actually tweeted something substantially similar to the above, and changed someone's mind. This really is the !@#$ing apocalypse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I think this is one of those situations where all the lefties who are going to get fired up and motivated are the hardcore types that were already going to vote and vote Democrat. I'm seeing a lot of moderate liberals who see this for the shameless exploitation of a sensitive issue it is and are put off by it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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