klos63 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 55 minutes ago, Bruce_Stools said: I don’t understand how ANYBODY can’t grasp this. Everything happened at the players’ place of employment. Case closed. I guess people don’t need facts anymore. Using your brain is apparently no longer P.C. I've mentioned this before. If my employees knelt down peacefully for 45 seconds(longer if Aretha Franklin singing) before work started, I wouldn't care. So you are not entirely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, mjt328 said: I am a salesman, traveling from business to business. For my job, I spend 99% of my job outside of the office. My company still expects me to be on-time every day, gives me a dress code and tells me how to act while representing them. If I don't live up to those standards, they have the right to fire me. When you are employed, your boss makes the rules. Not if you are in a union. The NFL players are in a union, so your analogy is incorrect. And even non-union employers have limits on their rights to control employees' speech and behavior in the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Then the owner has a lease that gives him exclusive use of the facility during the game. No one has the right to demand a Columbus Day parade on the sideline either. That's argument doesn't hold water. What about the thousands of guys who were good enough to go to training camp? The incremental difference between the 53d guy on a roster and any of them is tiny. So black guys being shot by cops is not as much of a problem if someone is paying Kapernick millions of dollars? He's a real modern day Ali. Once again, Kaepernick is free to protest all he likes, but his employer is fully within their rights to limit what happens on company time and on company property. And no, the fact that one can play football does not mean he should be guaranteed a paying job doing so any more than an accountant should be guaranteed a job with the Big 4 firms just because he used to work at one of them. Woah, the guy who said he wanted to make a "respectful statement" and then wore pig socks is full of it? Who woulda thunk? Edited June 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Can Kaepernick just go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce_Stools Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, klos63 said: I've mentioned this before. If my employees knelt down peacefully for 45 seconds(longer if Aretha Franklin singing) before work started, I wouldn't care. So you are not entirely correct. I don’t even think this needs a response but you perhaps misread a previous statement. While off the clock, be my guest to kneel during any event or at any time. Hell, do it at work and get fired for all I care. The players act like they’ve done nothing wrong because it’s a good cause to support. Its a fact they have no rights to freedom of speech at work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Bruce_Stools said: Its a fact they have no rights to freedom of speech at work It's also a fact that the NFL is forbidden by the CBA to collude with each other in blacklisting a prospective employee. Why do you keep stating the NFL's rights as employers while ignoring Kaepernick's rights as a prospective employee? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, mannc said: Sorry, that's not how it works. First of all, it's not a lawsuit. It's a grievance/arbitration. And Kaepernick brought the grievance only after the League (allegedly) blackballed him. Kaepernick has a highly competent legal team and big companies with lots of money lose legal proceedings all the time. If you were an owner would you hire him????? Do you think any of the owners will hire him????? I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mjt328 said: But where is the evidence this happened? The whole point of the subpoenas is to obtain evidence. All they have to prove is that at least 2 teams, or a team and the NFL executive office, colluded to stop Kaepernick from getting signed. It could be as simple as an email from one GM to another GM that says "Why did you bring Kaepernick in for a tryout? Don't you remember we have to all stick together?" And for anyone who says the NFL wouldn't be stupid enough to leave evidence like that, remember that the Bills were once fooled by a prank caller pretending to be the GM for Tampa Bay. There are 32 teams and the executive office, and only 2 of them had to screw up. Edited June 7, 2018 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) I've been wondering this for awhile now, and it was further peaked by Malcolm Jenkins "youre not listening" bit from this week. Are these guys doing work in their communities to reverse the trend of African American Males being 8x more likely to commit homicide or illuminating the upward trend of single family homes in those same communities hovering on or above 66% over the last ten years? Or is their more important platform about police violence which in average is a less impactful, but still an important issue. Edited June 7, 2018 by thenorthremembers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, wppete said: If you were an owner would you hire him????? Do you think any of the owners will hire him????? I That’s not the question. The question is whether the owners made a secret agreement not to hire him, or whether teams were pressured by the league or by other owners not to sign him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Yawn...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, mjt328 said: The NFL didn't discipline him. Kaepernick actually opted out of his contract, so that he could become a Free Agent. The league didn't suspend him. The league didn't fine him. Owners just didn't want to sign him. Again. He has nobody to blame but himself. Even Hall of Fame players like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss eventually ran out of interested teams, because they were too big of a distraction/headache to compensate for their talent. Kaepernick brings the baggage, but without the high level of play. Nobody was going to deal with this kind of media frenzy for a backup QB. This is exactly right. Kaeperdick is going nowhere in his lawsuit, unless they find some magic bullet email where all 32 teams talked about and agreed not to sign him. I should point out that it is completely irrelevant that the 49ers later said they were going to cut him if he didn't opt out of his contract, he still opted out. As for subpoenaing Trump, good luck. That will get quashed rather quickly... then quiche. Edited June 7, 2018 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: This is exactly right. Kaeperdick is going nowhere in his lawsuit, unless they find some magic bullet email where all 32 teams talked about and agreed not to sign him. As for subpoenaing Trump, good luck. That will get quashed rather quickly... then quiche. It would just take two or more teams, not all 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, elroy16 said: True, but you can't say that without acknowledging pro athletes are nothing like normal employees. We are easily replaceable, a top athlete in his prime isn't. Well apparently CK is since no one has signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elroy16 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Well apparently CK is since no one has signed him. I never said CK was a top athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, elroy16 said: True, but you can't say that without acknowledging pro athletes are nothing like normal employees. We are easily replaceable, a top athlete in his prime isn't. This is true. Plus they are not standard employees like many regular Americans (especially those not part of a union). They are contracted and part of a union, and there are specific terms to the contracts they sign. Standing for the anthem wasn't in those terms (as far as I'm aware) or in the NFL's policies either. It is now, but it wasn't when all of this started. They all work for different owners, too, who all have differing policies. If the team owner (in this case Terry & Kim Pegula) was ok with them kneeling (like the Pegulas were), then who are we to say it's not ok for them to do at work? And thats the other big difference - us normal workers are not asked/mandated to stand for the pledge once a week, while it's broadcast on national TV for millions of viewers. We are not looked up to (as role models or otherwise) by 1000's and 1000's of fans, young and old. We don't have a platform to protest at work like these athletes do, to try and get our message out. Union Protests do happen in workplaces too, though, albeit under a bit different circumstances... lol. Edited June 7, 2018 by BillsFan4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Sure but the NFL has a contract with their players which forbids collusion to deny employment. If you support the NFL's right to set and maintain their own anthem policy, surely you support Kaepernick's right to file suit when they breach their contract. Unless there's something else you're angry about? You are making an assumption of guilt that there is collusion. It's quite possible teams looked at the contract cost, analysis of return on investment and PR and decided independently that CK was not worth it. That is not collusion or illegal. Unless you want to live in an autocratic planned economy, you can't force companies to hire people. CK would have been smarter, not opting out, and had SF let him go then build a case. But he didn't, he quit after going 1-10 in his last 11 starts and misread the market. Wasn't expected to be in high demand when he walked. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18796373/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-opts-contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 It's not like the NFL hasn't colluded before. They were found guilty of antitrust violations in the USFL case, but the brain-dead jury awarded $1 in treble damages, for $3 total. Kaep has less than a 1% chance of winning this one, short of a videotape with two NFL owners or GM's on it saying "Let's agree to not offer Kaep a free agent contract". Then it'll be a coin flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, elroy16 said: I never said CK was a top athlete. I know you didn't. My point was more that there are players on teams as back ups and 3rd stringers worse than him so he is replaceable. Or at least replaceable enough to have someone on the team that will have a team mentality instead of a "me first" perspective on life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinES3 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I hope he continues on with his suit. It's a winning issue for Trump. Please #resist as much as possible ya'll. Nothing to run on but hate... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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