Lets Check Back To Reality On The Bills Defense

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Great defenses rush the passer and create turnovers.

Good to Very good defenses give up yards and first downs but don't surrender big plays, keep the points against low, and are opportunistic on defense.

Bad defenses can't stop the run, generate little to no pass rush, and have coverage breakdowns.

 

This defense can be very good if the secondary stays healthy.  To become great they need Star and Kyle to push the pocket back.  In addition, they will need Hughes to be a bit more dominant and either a slimmed down Lawson or Murphy to generate pressure from the other side.

 

I would leave Hughes at DE most of the time but I would like to see some packages with Washington at DE and Hughes/Edmunds at LB in the nickel.  

 

I think Murphy has a better chance of being a complete bust than he does of being a double digit sack guy.  PED guy coming off major injury.  Just don't see why this board is so excited about him.  I'm more excited to see Lawson playing at a lower weight.  He has been fat and out of shape since the first game he played.  Playing closer to his college weight hopefully will allow him to get back some of his burst in the pass rush.  If not perhaps the best we can hope is he holds up well against the run as he did last year.  

Hughes in coverage over Milano?  ?

why?  Maybe if they plan on disguising a blitz and sending Hughes to the QB.  Other than that, I think that is a terrible idea.

11 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please explain why- if he’s so great- Carolina allowed to walk. 

PS He’s not

I think it’s called the salary cap.  They’d rather pay Kwann Shor,t, because he can get to the passer from the DT.  Easier to find a space eater than to find a good interior PR.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Hughes in coverage over Milano?  ?

why?  Maybe if they plan on disguising a blitz and sending Hughes to the QB.  Other than that, I think that is a terrible idea.

If someone is gonna be in coverage...I want it to be Edmunds....who appears to actually be a freak for this.

 

I am really looking forward to the Gronk/Edmunds matchup

[NewEra]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

If someone is gonna be in coverage...I want it to be Edmunds....who appears to actually be a freak for this.

 

I am really looking forward to the Gronk/Edmunds matchup

Yeah for sure,  he’s not going to leave the field.  But to have Edmunds and HUGHES as nickel LBs over Edmunds and Milano..... I just don’t understand.  Milano is much better in coverage than Jerry.  On top of that, Jerry’s best attribute is getting after the passer.....he NEEDS to be in there as a pass rusher if he’s out there. Certainly not playing nickel LB

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah for sure,  he’s not going to leave the field.  But to have Edmunds and HUGHES as nickel LBs over Edmunds and Milano..... I just don’t understand.  Milano is much better in coverage than Jerry.  On top of that, Jerry’s best attribute is getting after the passer.....he NEEDS to be in there as a pass rusher if he’s out there. Certainly not playing nickel LB

Gotcha...agreed on this

[elroy16]

 

 

 

I posted this in another thread, but it's dying so I'm guessing it won't be seen.

 

 

I'm definitely expecting the D to take a step up this year. They still probably won't have a great pass rush, but the run D should take a solid step forward which will lead to better 3rd down scenarios. The pass D was solid without a good pass rush, so with a slightly better pass rush, we should still see a very good pass D. The depth on the back end was tested last year, I hope the additions of Gaines, Neal, and Thompson will help prevent a drop off if/when guys get banged up. 

 

I really think Edmunds is going to be a beast against the run and in coverage, I can't wait to watch him play.

 

In terms of Frazier not blitzing, it'll be interesting to see if that changes. McDermott showed double A gap pressure with Thomas and Kuechly in Carolina. Edmunds showed at times he can be a strong blitzer in college. I want to see him in coverage for the most part, but he could be a big time chess piece out there. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, colin said:

Top 5?

 

Top 5?!?!

 

I know I said we'd be Top 5, but we'll be top 2, and we're not 2, I thought you had one but it's not one, corta nah.

 

Hermes link, ice blue...

 

I'll see myself out.

I think top 5 is extremely ambitious

 

I would be extremely happy with top 10 because that would keep us competative in most games......if Allen's progress is quick by the end of the year we might be cooking with fire even with the limited offensive weapons.

 

Keep in mind that Shady is still Shady......teams have to account for him.....and with a real arm talent playing up to stop our run could be very dangerous for opposing defenses.

 

John H.

[BillsBytheBay]

I expect correctable mistakes in the center of the D for a bit... But our most experienced two players will be right there too.

 

We'll see if we can get some pass rush, but I think we're even better on the back end.

[billieve420]

If we can stop the run consistently this year then I believe the D will take a major step forward. 

[NewEra]

I was one that said we could be a top 5 defense.  If everything aligns, I believe it could be. It’s best case scenario.  But you’re right, top 10 is more realistic and I’d be happy with that.  Really hoping we hit on Taron Johnson and Siran Neal.  Love those picks..... if they work out. 

[Misterbluesky]

19 hours ago, MJS said:

 

Murphy is washed up going into his 4th season and coming off of his best season, while getting better each year he has played?

Murphy blew out his knee last summer,he was on the IR.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Murphy blew out his knee last summer,he was on the IR.

 

Along with half the NFL. What's your point? Guys come back from knee injuries all the time these days.

[Misterbluesky]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Along with half the NFL. What's your point? Guys come back from knee injuries all the time these days.

You said he's coming off his best season,which is not true.

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

That’s your argument?  Seriously?

No. That was in response to another comment. 

Here’s the argument against a sometime space eater with no pass rush skills.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/

[Aussie Joe]

If people aren’t at least optimistic about the Defense this year, I don’t want to know how their feeling about the O...

 

It’s June... I’m going to be hopeful...If reality comes crashing down around late October than so be it..

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

No. That was in response to another comment. 

Here’s the argument against a sometime space eater with no pass rush skills.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/

I am wondering what the alternative might be.

 

You get pretty much what we were getting from Marcel D. for a fraction of the cost

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am wondering what the alternative might be.

 

You get pretty much what we were getting from Marcel D. for a fraction of the cost

Yes, and we traded that away while the Selling was good. Dareus gave us 10 sacks one season. I don’t see 10 sacks in 5 seasons with our new ‘Star’. I hope I’m wrong and as ill-informed as some suggest. I simply don’t see these 2 additions significantly improving a very porous run defense and non-existent pass rush.

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes, and we traded that away while the Selling was good. Dareus gave us 10 sacks one season. I don’t see 10 sacks in 5 seasons with our new ‘Star’. I hope I’m wrong and as ill-informed as some suggest. I simply don’t see these 2 additions significantly improving a very porous run defense and non-existent pass rush.

Marcel gave us what equivilated to ONE good season then his play significally fell off.

 

I am actually not talking about 1st season Marcel....I am talking about the player he became when he settled into his 100 million dollar contract where when he played he was taking on double teams and not getting sacks.

 

If there is anything star does do well its control the LOS and stop the run......and yes it is true that you will probably not get pass rush from him.

 

But lets also keep in mind that he doesnt have a 100 million dollar contract either.

[Zebrastripes]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please explain why- if he’s so great- Carolina allowed to walk. 

PS He’s not

Kawann Short and his 17 million dollar cap hit is the reason they let him walk.  No team in the league can afford to have over 25 million invested into their defensive tackles.

[mjd1001]

9 hours ago, nucci said:

we haven't seen anything yet

which is WHY I used the word 'see'...as in 'see in the present' or 'see in the future'.....not seen as in 'we haven't seen anything yet'

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes, and we traded that away while the Selling was good. Dareus gave us 10 sacks one season. I don’t see 10 sacks in 5 seasons with our new ‘Star’. I hope I’m wrong and as ill-informed as some suggest. I simply don’t see these 2 additions significantly improving a very porous run defense and non-existent pass rush.

There no zero pass rush from the LDE position.  Jerry had solid pressure all season.  He didn’t capitalize on getting there and get many sacks, but he was in the backfield.  If Murphy can do what he did 2 years ago in Washington, which was get to the QB and a pussire the backfield, he and Hughes will be a solid pairing.  We lack the pass rush we had up the middle, but Philips may surprise in that department and Kyle has his moments.  I think replacing Brown with Edmunds will eventually be a HUGE upgrade in coverage and as well as putting pressure on the QB. He and Milano have the potential to be an ideal pairing at MLB if Milano continues to improve 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

The only stat or ranking that matters is PPG. I

This defense is very "bend, don't break" and opportunistic. They're going to give up yards, yet (hopefully) limit scores. They were very good at that for the first 6 or so games last year. Then the Jets, Saints, Chargers games happened...PPG and YPG rankings dropped considerably after those 3 games. I know we cannot "take away those games", but the final rankings would have been slightly better if those games weren't as ugly. 

 

I don't think its crazy to think that the Bills could finish near the top 10 or better, but part of those rankings will rely on the offense being able to sustain drives and stay on the field, and if there is some regression on that side of the ball (which can be expected), the defense may "look" like a top 10 unit, but the rankings won't reflect that.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[corta765]

10 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

The only stat or ranking that matters is PPG. I

This defense is very "bend, don't break" and opportunistic. They're going to give up yards, yet (hopefully) limit scores. They were very good at that for the first 6 or so games last year. Then the Jets, Saints, Chargers games happened...PPG and YPG rankings dropped considerably after those 3 games. I know we cannot "take away those games", but the final rankings would have been slightly better if those games weren't as ugly. 

 

I don't think its crazy to think that the Bills could finish near the top 10 or better, but part of those rankings will rely on the offense being able to sustain drives and stay on the field, and if there is some regression on that side of the ball (which can be expected), the defense may "look" like a top 10 unit, but the rankings won't reflect that.

 

This is something I referenced in the original post. If the offense struggles and the D is always on the field 35 mins with poor field position we could see a D statistically not much better play on the field.

[Fadingpain]

It's too early to get into some type of hardcore debate over how good the D is going to be.

 

 

[Albillny]

I am personally very interested in what Harrison Phillips can do.  If he can do in the NFL what he did in college that will bring a ton of flexibility and/or rest for the rest of the D.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Albillny

[Patrick Duffy]

Also will depend on how much the offense can help the defense by not going 3 and out. A tired defense is not a good defense either. So it all will depend on a number of things. Hopefully everything will improve on every level, but I am excited to see how this D stacks up.

[atlbillsfan1975]

McDermott and Frazier proved they will get the most out of the defense with the talent they have. Having said that I believe there is plenty more talent on this D then last years. Baring injuries this D will be top 10.

Edited June 6, 2018 by atlbillsfan1975

[3rdand12]

I do agree the talent level has risen !

 How it translates to the field this season ? not sure. Remain hopeful though. I do like the additions from V Davis to H.Phillips

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Please explain why- if he’s so great- Carolina allowed to walk. 

PS He’s not

 

I guess Micah Hyde is terrible because Green Bay let him go? 

[aristocrat]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I guess Micah Hyde is terrible because Green Bay let him go? 

 

Please don’t bring facts to this argument.

[billsfan89]

Linebacker could be a real concern, but I think that they can figure it out there esp if Edumonds stays healthy. But my biggest concern is the pass rush. There are no sure bets as to the Bills even having 1 player that can get to the QB. Hughes is coming off a bad season and is older, Shaq is coming off of an injury and hasn't light the world on fire, Murphy is coming off of a big injury, and Lorax is older and coming off a not so good season. 

 

Now all 4 players give you reasons as to why you think they will rebound but all 4 could be ineffective. If the Bills can get 2 good seasons out of those 4 players then I think it is off to the Races. Star and Phillips should be effective in the run game, the LB core should be competent enough, and the secondary is the strength of the defense.

 

But if the Bills can't get the pass rush going it will just destroy the rest of the defense.

[Patrick Duffy]

40 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I guess Micah Hyde is terrible because Green Bay let him go? 

Yup, I hear this Poyer guy is no picnic either.

[Royale with Cheese]

40 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Please don’t bring facts to this argument.

 

I’ve never understood that argument....”If he was so good, why did X team let him go?”

 

That’s basically saying that you can’t ever say there is a good free agent signing because that would mean that player wasn’t re-signed by their last team.  

[aristocrat]

9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I’ve never understood that argument....”If he was so good, why did X team let him go?”

 

That’s basically saying that you can’t ever say there is a good free agent signing because that would mean that player wasn’t re-signed by their last team.  

 

yea it's a strange way to think. if he's so good why did they trade him?