Alonzo Highsmith explains why he flipped from Darnold to Mayfield

[metafour]

Josh Rosen's issue is that he is a QB who is seen as a know-it-all.  You can have that attitude if you've earned it like Tom Brady; but this is a kid out of college who hasn't proven anything.  His personality brings into question just how coachable he is which is important because these guys ALL need development.  A guy who thinks he knows more than his coaches is a huge red flag.  His college teammates may have bought into him, but remember that he was a 5-star signee and therefore already demanded respect among his peers.  A 10-year NFL vet isn't going to secede respect to this kid, especially when he shows traits of entitlement.

[BadLandsMeanie]

Just now, nbbillsfan said:

 

I don’t think anyonr was afraid of drafting Rosen because he is a “troublemaker”, they were scared off because he is a jerk. If you are phenomenal QB, you can be a jerk and still lead a successful NFL team. But you have to be great; will Rosen be good enough to overcome this, we will find out.

So beating on women isn't being a jerk? Remember, these NFL teams had to be forced, forced by public outcry, to do something about that. To even think about it. 

There are many, many other examples of both players and coaches being jerks. Heck we had a coach, a middle aged coach, hit some teenagers for stealing a chair.

I could go on and on. And so could just about every  football fan who reads the sports news go on and on. And that is only the stuff that becomes public. Oh don't forget the idiot on the Bills who decided to drive his three wheeled motorcycle up to a cop while holding a handgun. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the leg with his own gun. Nuff said about Zay Jones. 

 

 

What sort of a jerk is Rosen, that is so very different and so scary to these NFL men? Was it the girl? The hot tub? The hat? 

 

And why is it never specific? You are never specific in this thread. No one I have read has ever been specific. Not one time.

 

Your position is unsupportable. 

 

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

18 minutes ago, metafour said:

Josh Rosen's issue is that he is a QB who is seen as a know-it-all.  You can have that attitude if you've earned it like Tom Brady; but this is a kid out of college who hasn't proven anything.  His personality brings into question just how coachable he is which is important because these guys ALL need development.  A guy who thinks he knows more than his coaches is a huge red flag.  His college teammates may have bought into him, but remember that he was a 5-star signee and therefore already demanded respect among his peers.  A 10-year NFL vet isn't going to secede respect to this kid, especially when he shows traits of entitlement.

Maybe you will agree when I guess that "know it all" describes at least 1 in 10 young men his age. And maybe 1 in 5 first round picks? 

Many of them admit that later on. They they wish they hadn't been so arrogant when they were rookies.

 

So granted, it is not the best mind set. But I am asking, what is so different about Rosen that he alone gets such a huge backlash against him?

 

I hope that Allen turns out great. But if it turns out that I have to keep watching losing football because our coaches didn't want to work with an annoying kid, I won't buy that. I think that is a character flaw in our coaches.

 

But setting that aside, doesn't it seem at all weird to you that teams and scouts and whoever else, just are all over Rosen, every day, month after month, for being a know it all??

 

Doesn't that seem unusual to you?

Edited May 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I'm assuming the issue was the volleyball coach had nothing good to say, which seems like it would be a red flag. He's probably asked other sport coaches before and the input was at some level useful to him. It even seems this particular coach would have more contact with Rosen since he's probably around the volleyball team a little more often.

The volleyball coach not only didn't say anything good about him he also didn't say anything bad about him. A negative response is being imputed from basically a non-response. And then what was imputed was turned into a public criticism of the character of a player who is not on your team. That's not right. 

[YoloinOhio]

tbh the notion that the Browns made a decision about a quarterback thanks to a volleyball coach not telling them anything sounds like a very Browns move

[greeneblitz]

Oh god, the Rosen squad is upset, man, so much smoke from nearly everyone thats every been around him, all you have to do is watch him for 5 mins on tv, the kid is a brat and a total douchebag, he wont last 3 years in the NFL with that personality unless he's the second coming on the field.

[nbbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

So beating on women isn't being a jerk? Remember, these NFL teams had to be forced, forced by public outcry, to do something about that. To even think about it. 

There are many, many other examples of both players and coaches being jerks. Heck we had a coach, a middle aged coach, hit some teenagers for stealing a chair.

I could go on and on. And so could just about every  football fan who reads the sports news go on and on. And that is only the stuff that becomes public. Oh don't forget the idiot on the Bills who decided to drive his three wheeled motorcycle up to a cop while holding a handgun. Plaxico Burris shot himself in the leg with his own gun. Nuff said about Zay Jones. 

 

 

What sort of a jerk is Rosen, that is so very different and so scary to these NFL men? Was it the girl? The hot tub? The hat? 

 

And why is it never specific? You are never specific in this thread. No one I have read has ever been specific. Not one time.

 

Your position is unsupportable. 

 

 

 

Ya, you are missing the point.

[metafour]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

tbh the notion that the Browns made a decision about a quarterback thanks to a volleyball coach not telling them anything sounds like a very Browns move

 

The book on Rosen has been known for a while, that is only one example of a longer list.  That new Browns FO is filled with highly regarded draft evaluators.  Even Jim Mora Jr, Rosen's college coach, made some offhanded remarks about Rosen needing to mature, and college coaches rarely if ever do that.  I know that people from the area have also described Rosen as a "tennis player at heart" (tennis was his first passion, and he was a top ranked junior before he switched to football).

[nbbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Maybe you will agree when I guess that "know it all" describes at least 1 in 10 young men his age. And maybe 1 in 5 first round picks? 

Many of them admit that later on. They they wish they hadn't been so arrogant when they were rookies.

 

So granted, it is not the best mind set. But I am asking, what is so different about Rosen that he alone gets such a huge backlash against him?

 

I hope that Allen turns out great. But if it turns out that I have to keep watching losing football because our coaches didn't want to work with an annoying kid, I won't buy that. I think that is a character flaw in our coaches.

 

But setting that aside, doesn't it seem at all weird to you that teams and scouts and whoever else, just are all over Rosen, every day, month after month, for being a know it all??

 

Doesn't that seem unusual to you?

Doesn’t it seem odd to you that his own head coach wouldn’t suggest him for the #1 pick?

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Well this is a good thread for me. I'm starting to see that something isn't right here. There is something different.

 

As has been mentioned it is outside the bounds of professional, or even adult, behavior, for Highsmith to have said what he did. And it is the same vague, no substance, non-specific whispery kind of gossipy stuff that implies that they secretly know more, but won't say. We have some poster or two in this thread with the same sort of thing. Never specific. Never a verifiable event. Always just the "If you knew what I know, you wouldn't like Rosen either".

 

But we got guys like Jameis Winston who had way worse stuff alleged and also worse stuff that was proven, who went #1. So besides the stealing and alleged raping he was a heck of a guy in college I guess.

 

I don't want to land on Baker especially but he was indeed drunk and did indeed run from and get arrested by the cops. Everbody loves him, and he goes #1 overall.

 

Joe Mixon here actually broke some poor girl's face. He is very strong and women's facial bones are not as strong. He hurt her bad. This was hushed up until it leaked out much later.

I guess besides things like this he is a joy to be around, right?

 

 

 

Josh Rosen on the other hand is so bad that his presence is near intolerable. But unlike the others, and unlike nearly every other college and NFL star,  who grow so used to having their misdeeds and behavior hushed up or ignored that some few even wind up thinking they can get away with murdering people. Josh Rosen is exposed as a trouble maker before, during, and now after the draft. And the evidence we get is this. He had a girl, in a hot tub.

 

 

He had an F Trump hat on.

 

He is inquisitive of his coaches and wants to understand the game. 

 

These are the specific charges against him. Everything else is whispers which I have to tell you, nearly always means lies.

 

But even if they are not, what is so different about Josh Rosen that he catches all this heat and EVERYBODY else doesn't? Even when they hurt people. Why is that? What is going on here? It seems very, very odd to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do YOU think the reason is? 

 

To me its simple:  his talent potential falls slightly short to his ego/attitude (whatever you want to call it). Sprinkle in the fact that he has the body/frame of a 15yr old boy, and that doesnt help his case either. 

 

Lastly, lets stop this nonsense about Rosen being somehow cast away like he was drafted in the 3rd round. HE WAS STILL DRAFTED IN THE TOP 10. Rosen wasnt Luck coming out of Stanford. If the bundle of twigs cant realize that, then that itself is part of the problem with him. 

 

I cant wait until Toothpick Rosen gets annihilated by Suh and Donald 2x a year. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

19 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

Oh god, the Rosen squad is upset, man, so much smoke from nearly everyone thats every been around him, all you have to do is watch him for 5 mins on tv, the kid is a brat and a total douchebag, he wont last 3 years in the NFL with that personality unless he's the second coming on the field.

"From nearly everyone that has been around him"

 

As if YOU have any idea at all. Am I right? You just read the rumors. Don't you? 

 

You have no idea, at all, what you are talking about. Isn't that right?

 

I can tell you who agrees with me about you people and your rumors. Marv Levy, that's who.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[bobobonators]

Look at that girly frame Rosen has. His helmet is literally as wide as his entire torso/chest area. Look at those arms. Are those twigs? That chicken bone. Sorry, clavicle will probably break after 2 hits from Aaron Donald. This guy wont last unless he puts on 25lbs. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

9 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

Ya, you are missing the point.

This is my point : Your position is unsupportable.

 

But I don't need to make this into a crusade. I can't reshape your character and you don't want me to. Believe your rumors and take shots and offer opinions critical of someone you do not know and have never even met.

 

I just wanted to chime in that that is what you all are doing. Not just you guys in the thread here, but everybody like you in the football world and in the media. Repeating rumors that were repeated to you and that will be repeated by others who don't much care to be cautious, or know facts, or even be reasoned with,  when saying mean things about another person.

 

I can let it go like I say I just wanted to point it out and I think I have.

[Bing Bong]

Baker's going to be the best in class. Great decision, and brass balls to boot. 

 

Can I still make a savior Baker bot account?

Edited May 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Bing Bong]

7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Look at that girly frame Rosen has. His helmet is literally as wide as his entire torso/chest area. Look at those arms. Are those twigs? That chicken bone. Sorry, clavicle will probably break after 2 hits from Aaron Donald. This guy wont last unless he puts on 25lbs. 

Geez dude, hate prejudice of appearances explained in hyperbole. Guy can throw the pig skin. Brees is a midget? Winston and KB got fat shamed? Baker's too short to succeed. Sproles never had a chance in the league. 40 year old Brady could snap at any point. Lionel Messi is too short (he was diagnosed with dwarfism)? Isiah Thomas never had a chance at playing basketball. Kevin durant is too skinny huh. Old Peyton Manning looked far worse. Wait.. all those guys proved they can play sports. Whoa, I thought a single picture indicates your career success. Weird, must mean Brady's infamous combine picks ruined his career.

 

Wait.. all these guys have something called talent. Huh, didn't know that mattered.

 

Maybe you're right, but wait tell he takes a snap and hits a quick throw to Fitz before Donald touches him. Or wait until Donald and Suh snap him in half. But don't give me a friggin picture and claim it means jack.

 

A girly frame? Got me triggered

[nbbillsfan]

16 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is my point : Your position is unsupportable.

 

But I don't need to make this into a crusade. I can't reshape your character and you don't want me to. Believe your rumors and take shots and offer opinions critical of someone you do not know and have never even met.

 

I just wanted to chime in that that is what you all are doing. Not just you guys in the thread here, but everybody like you in the football world and in the media. Repeating rumors that were repeated to you and that will be repeated by others who don't much care to be cautious, or know facts, or even be reasoned with,  when saying mean things about another person.

 

I can let it go like I say I just wanted to point it out and I think I have.

 

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

 

again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

[Bing Bong]

9 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

 

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

 

again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

Fair take. Not bothering to follow the argument but I like your stance.

 

NOT TAKING SIDES. YOU DA MAN BADLANDS

 

Edit I am taking sides. Rosen hate is dumb. He can throw this pigskin. See my post above at Bobobonators. I like you all.. but let's wait until the darn season begins before these fiery hot takes.

Edited May 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I'm assuming the issue was the volleyball coach had nothing good to say, which seems like it would be a red flag. He's probably asked other sport coaches before and the input was at some level useful to him. It even seems this particular coach would have more contact with Rosen since he's probably around the volleyball team a little more often.

 

Dude, I dunno what volleyball programs you've been around, but I can't imagine a volleyball program where the coach would tolerate having player boyfriends "around the volleyball team" at the same time the coach is there, trying to coach before, during, or after practice and a game.  Girl would be running extra suicide sprints and dive drills if she tried.  Around the team when they're having a party or something, sure, but the coach isn't there then.  In the stands during a game, sure, but if you know any teenage girls who want their boyfriends spending time with them when they're all sweaty after a hard-fought athletic contest, you know a different set o' teenage volleyball girls than I know.  Leaning forward kiss and maybe a bro-ish kind of hug, I'm all gross meet me after I shower.  Coach might have seen Rosen around the training facilities - the weight room and such - or just be going on casual contact and general rumors. 

 

I could be off, but I think expecting to get useful info out of the coach of another varsity sport or reading something big into it if you don't is just weird.  If the girlfriend was on the team and the coach is cool with it, the girlfriend would be the one to talk to.

 

I agree with the other posters that I think not picking the kid and then tossing him under the bus in an interview is un-called-for and unprofessional - on Highsmith's part.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

But listen to the guy talk, you can hear his arrogance for yourself. It’s not just rumors and smoke, if you listen to the qbs in this draft talk  they are all likeable; Rosen is not.

Again, if he’s a great qb none of this will matter. Likewise, if Allen is the most likeable/coachable player of all time, but can’t put it together, than who cares.

 

You're Right On with the last two sentences.  In the end, it's what's shown on the field that will count.

 

I don't hear the arrogance for myself.  He doesn't sound like your typical college athlete.  He sounds like a bunch of nerdy college interns I've worked with over the years, most of whom think they're smarter than they actually are and know more about a bunch of subjects than they actually do, and pronounce their views very authoritatively.  He talks too much and like Nuke Laloosh, needs to learn his platitudes.  That may be off-putting if you're looking for a drinking buddy but if you're looking for a great QB, should be down the list.

 

IMHO, because the QB position is so important, NFL GMs get too freakin' cute with it.    Sure, other things being equal, you'd rather have a fiery competitor with a magnetic personality who bonds with everyone and has great media presence.  But that's only if other things are equal.  The guy needs to prove he can play the game first.

 

48 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Baker's going to be the best in class. Great decision, and brass balls to boot. 

 

Can I still make a savior Baker bot account?

 

Sure - on a Browns message board

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Adam727 said:

So the Browns who were supposedly considering Allen at #1 overall actually had him ranked 5th (or lower) behind the other top 4 QBs.  And Arizona who we supposedly had to outbid for Allen at 7 wasn't willing to part with even one 2nd round pick to move up for a QB..

 

I think I need to stop reading football related articles for a few weeks.  I keep waiting for the disappointment from the draft to wear off but articles like this one don't help.  

 

I really hope Beane turns out to be the smartest person in the room and makes all his doubters look stupid, but it feels more and more like there weren't many GMs other than Beane that thought very highly of Allen.. 

 

I don't think that's a verifiable supposition.  I don't know of any teams who release their draft boards.

Here's what we know:

1) QB were drafted at 1 and 3.  Presumably Allen was lower than the 1st or 2nd QB on those team's boards, but they were able to get their 1st or 2nd choice.

You can't tell whether they thought highly of Allen or not; they might have had him graded top-five, they might have had him in the 3rd round.  Can't tell.

2) Allen was drafted at 7.  No QB were drafted between 3 and 7, but the 3 teams in question either just drafted a QB, just invested $18M in QB salary, or have a franchise QB.

You can conclude that 2 of those teams thought less highly of Allen than of the players they drafted, but they might still have had him high - just not as high as their choice, and also need may have factored into it

3) For the remaining 22 (?) teams, whether or not they thought highly of Allen is a total moot point, since he was off the board.

 

[Bing Bong]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Sure - on a Browns message board

Been studying savior pete. I have a great algorithm to offer fiery hot takes at the worst moments.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Kevin Cole, who is one of these PFF type data analysts, talking about it's too early to give grades or badmouth draft picks before seeing these guys play, tweeted,  "If you're at the blackjack table and someone hits on 16 with a 6 showing you don't say, "let's wait to see how the hand plays out before saying it was a bad decision"

 

Ha.

 

Cute, but if profiling a successful NFL QB could be reduced to a series of hard numerical probabilities like blackjack, the success rate would presumably be higher.

 

[major]

5 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

As someone nervous about Allen but on the train, I don't love hearing they had him 5th...

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, major said:

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

No excuses man. He probably sucks. Or he doesn't.Wait until he's in a bills uni.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, nbbillsfan said:

 

I don’t think anyonr was afraid of drafting Rosen because he is a “troublemaker”, they were scared off because he is a jerk. If you are phenomenal QB, you can be a jerk and still lead a successful NFL team. But you have to be great; will Rosen be good enough to overcome this, we will find out.

 

Ok got it.

 

So in order to succeed as a jerk, you have to be great. However, if you are perceived as nice, you merely have to be good.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, I dunno what volleyball programs you've been around, but I can't imagine a volleyball program where the coach would tolerate having player boyfriends "around the volleyball team" at the same time the coach is there, trying to coach before, during, or after practice and a game.  Girl would be running extra suicide sprints and dive drills if she tried.  Around the team when they're having a party or something, sure, but the coach isn't there then.  In the stands during a game, sure, but if you know any teenage girls who want their boyfriends spending time with them when they're all sweaty after a hard-fought athletic contest, you know a different set o' teenage volleyball girls than I know.  Leaning forward kiss and maybe a bro-ish kind of hug, I'm all gross meet me after I shower.  Coach might have seen Rosen around the training facilities - the weight room and such - or just be going on casual contact and general rumors. 

 

I could be off, but I think expecting to get useful info out of the coach of another varsity sport or reading something big into it if you don't is just weird.  If the girlfriend was on the team and the coach is cool with it, the girlfriend would be the one to talk to.

 

I agree with the other posters that I think not picking the kid and then tossing him under the bus in an interview is un-called-for and unprofessional - on Highsmith's part.

It very well may be weird - as are some of the questions asked at the combine. As I mentioned, Highsmith has probably asked non-football folks similar questions and has gotten useful info. Seems like an example of how deep the research can go on prospects. 

 

I would say as the star qb, Rosen is known wherever he goes. How many boyfriends do you think the coach can name? 

 

It is interesting to me the depth that some of these guys go to, right or wrong. It kind of blinds them sometimes. There's a mountain of data on Rosen and this exchange is what Highsmith seems to remember as a tipping point?

[nbbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Ok got it.

 

So in order to succeed as a jerk, you have to be great. However, if you are perceived as nice, you merely have to be good.

 

Yes, If you are a jerk who historically doesn’t respond well to coaching then you do have to be more talented than a guy who is strong leader and is very coachable in order to succeed. With that being said, there are nearly as many examples of the former as there is of the latter.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

It very well may be weird - as are some of the questions asked at the combine. As I mentioned, Highsmith has probably asked non-football folks similar questions and has gotten useful info. Seems like an example of how deep the research can go on prospects.

 

Goes to show how two folks can look at the same thing and come to different conclusions.

 

I don't think it's an example of how deep the research can go on prospects; I think it's an example of the research being scattershot and shallow as a kiddy pool.

 

34 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

It is interesting to me the depth that some of these guys go to, right or wrong. It kind of blinds them sometimes. There's a mountain of data on Rosen and this exchange is what Highsmith seems to remember as a tipping point?

 

I agree - seems like a weird choice of anecdote, and (to me) illustrates lack of depth and a scattershot approach.

[Adam727]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think that's a verifiable supposition.  I don't know of any teams who release their draft boards.

Here's what we know:

1) QB were drafted at 1 and 3.  Presumably Allen was lower than the 1st or 2nd QB on those team's boards, but they were able to get their 1st or 2nd choice.

You can't tell whether they thought highly of Allen or not; they might have had him graded top-five, they might have had him in the 3rd round.  Can't tell.

2) Allen was drafted at 7.  No QB were drafted between 3 and 7, but the 3 teams in question either just drafted a QB, just invested $18M in QB salary, or have a franchise QB.

You can conclude that 2 of those teams thought less highly of Allen than of the players they drafted, but they might still have had him high - just not as high as their choice, and also need may have factored into it

3) For the remaining 22 (?) teams, whether or not they thought highly of Allen is a total moot point, since he was off the board.

 

I should have chosen my words better.  "think highly" is inaccurate.  Even a team that has Allen as the 5th QB on their board could still like him. And you're right that we don't know where Allen ranked on most teams' draft boards.  

 

But Cleveland was rumored to be interested at #1, and this article says he was ranked no higher than 5th.  The Jets didn't take him at 3.  Denver was rumored to be interested but passed.  And if Arizona was interested in Allen over Rosen (which I don't think we know one way or the other?) we have since found out they weren't willing to give up a single 2nd round pick to move up for their QB.  (We gave up 2 of them and a Franchise LT)

 

Giving up essentially a franchise LT, the pick we got for Watkins, a #1 pick, a #2 pick, and passing on Watson/Mahomes/Rosen for Allen seems like the kind of mistake that could set this franchise back for a long time.  All I meant to say is that it does not help to hear that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake, and that Arizona was not willing to give up as much as we thought for whichever QB they were trying to move up for.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Adam727 said:

I should have chosen my words better.  "think highly" is inaccurate.  Even a team that has Allen as the 5th QB on their board could still like him. And you're right that we don't know where Allen ranked on most teams' draft boards.  

 

But Cleveland was rumored to be interested at #1, and this article says he was ranked no higher than 5th.  The Jets didn't take him at 3.  Denver was rumored to be interested but passed.  And if Arizona was interested in Allen over Rosen (which I don't think we know one way or the other?) we have since found out they weren't willing to give up a single 2nd round pick to move up for their QB.  (We gave up 2 of them and a Franchise LT)

 

Giving up essentially a franchise LT, the pick we got for Watkins, a #1 pick, a #2 pick, and passing on Watson/Mahomes/Rosen for Allen seems like the kind of mistake that could set this franchise back for a long time.  All I meant to say is that it does not help to hear that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake, and that Arizona was not willing to give up as much as we thought for whichever QB they were trying to move up for.  

 

Let me put it this way.  I would not put a lot of stock in post-draft stories of what teams were and weren't willing to do.  Example: it was reported that Buffalo had offered our two 1sts and next years for #2.  Now Beane says next year's first was never on the table.  So which is true?  Who knows?  Why should anyone tell the truth at this point?  Them grapes sure look sour.

 

It's all gamesmanship.  We haven't found out a thing.  Hearing that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake shouldn't bother you any more than any other pre-draft rumor.

For whatever it's worth, here's another story that says Dorsey kept the QB order under his vest until the morning of the draft by leaving the QB magnets turned vertical at the top of their board and in the order in which they'd made visits.  Then: " Late Thursday morning, about nine hours before the draft, he gathered the senior staff to tell them the order of the quarterbacks, and what he was likely to do with the top pick—take Mayfield. He kept the board covered until early evening, and shortly before the draft began, the room knew the QB order. "    BUT nonetheless - Schefter and King were able to get intel? even though it was so close to his vest?  Wow, if I worked for Dorsey that would give me great morale that somehow King and Schefter know stuff before the staff does.  I'd really feel empowered and respected.  And why make such a big deal of the order of the QB, when that doesn't matter because they have the #1 pick?  It just doesn't ring true - like it's creative drama.

 

Giving a 1st round pick, 2 2nd round picks, and a player is not a huge haul for a true franchise QB.   The question, as always, is: "is this guy Truth?  or is he not-all-that?

[BillsFan17]

Like I said on Twitter. This team is 1-31 over the last two seasons. You can tell me all you want about their FO changes, our FO ended a 17 year playoff drought their first year on the job.

 

Moreover, Beane was part of of the process in drafting Newton. Ya know,  former league MVP.

 

I'm inclined to believe Beanes board over the Browns board.

[cd1]

9 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

As someone nervous about Allen but on the train, I don't love hearing they had him 5th...

 

Who knows maybe Highsmith talked to Allen's ninth grade girlfriend that was still mad at him...  ;-)

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I can tell you this...I know people who know Rosen personally, not one of them says anything positive about him as a person.  They all say the same thing, he is a total deuche and has been for years.  And they know even more people who know him and again say the same thing.  There are a lot of people who just flat out don't like him, and its a pretty well known thing here around LA.  

 

Thats my issue with his character.  He's a fake tough guy competitor.  He sulks when he doesnt get his way.  Even in his post draft comments he talked about how he was mad he didnt go in top 3 then tuned out the rest of the draft with plans to fake a smile.  He's mentally weak, self absorbed, and seems to care more about himself than his teammates.  Baker on the other hand is a true fiery competitor that people rally behind.  

 

Who knows what happens in the future, but I felt Baker was the best QB prospect in the draft, and Rosen would be the last of the big 4 drafted.  And in the end, thats what happened. But none of it matters at all anymore, all that matters is how these guys do on the field.  And while Rosen reminds me more of Jeff George, Jay Cutler, and Ryan Leaf in terms of his personality and mental make up, it doesn't mean I am right about it.  But its concerning when so many people are turned off by him and teams need to research how to "manage" his personality and "get through" to him.  

 

I think the biggest risk with his personality is how he will handle the inevitable adversity he will face as a young player.  I dont have much confidence he will do well with it.  

 

 

....thanks  bud for sharing........his post draft, sulking hissy fit brought out his true colors......putz............bet his teammates can't wait to meet him at the airport......he'll be the one on the VERY high horse wearing a crown..........

[BuffaloRush]

Shouldn’t this thread be moved?

[BringBackFergy]

[Fadingpain]

This whole conversation hinges on the comments made by Alonzo Highsmith.

 

Dude is an ex-football player/boxer who probably majored in basket weaving or cocaine intake at U. Miami.

 

You think he is a great reader of men/judge of character/insightful thinker?

 

Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

It's hilarious to me how pro sports organizations rely on athletes to do these jobs.

 

Just saw little piece about Brendan Shanahan announcing Lamarillo won't be back as GM with the Leafs.

 

Photo show Shanahan with glasses on wearing a suit up in a box at a game.  Makes me laugh out loud.

 

Guy was playing in the NHL as an 18 year and has no formal education to speak of.

Now he's running the Leafs organization.   LOL.

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

Browns media / FO putting the spin cycle hard on Baker vs Darnold. MCK had a headline that “half the teams in the league had Baker #1”. Turns out she talked to 12 teams, supposedly 4 told her they had Baker #1 and she had a hunch 2 others did too. 

 

This is exactly the thing I can’t stand about the Browns org. If any organization should be quiet and humble it’s the Browns. Yet they get a hint of success and they thump their chest and take credit for inventing football. 

[eball]

12 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 Not to mention that it was a fact that Kelly, Thurman, Andre and Bruce were all douches and egomaniacs coming out of college and well into their careers.

 

Truth.  All that really matters is what you can do on the field.

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, major said:

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

It bothered me also and is a valid criticism.  I can't think of another top draft QB whose proponents used this excuse.

When Allen said to look at the film not the stats, I had to laugh.  Yea dude, I did look.  You made some great  passes on film, but all the over throws, poor placement, and poor decisions still back up your stats.

 

I thought his receivers were solid.  There were some drops I'd expect when a rocket armed qb has accuracy issues but they seemed very reliable otherwise.

[berg1029]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I know, right? 

 

" Highsmith did lots of traveling to prepare for the draft. “I was at an airport,” he said. “UCLA’s volleyball team was in front of me. You heard so much about Rosen. He’s this or that. We all know how people talk. “So I asked one of the volleyball coaches, ‘What’s Rosen like?’ He said, ‘Aaaaa, you should probably ask his girlfriend. She’s one of the players. She’s over there.’ “I’m like, ‘All right coach. That’s good enough.’ “I don’t know what all this means, but there was something about him that bothered me.”

 

Literally "something about him that bothered me".  If this is the best effort of a high-level NFL FO scouting executive, the "right hand man" to the GM, I gotta say I'm kind of under-impressed here.  Maybe it's a good thing for Green Bay that Dorsey "lured him away"

 

Nothing wrong with trusting your instincts on a player, IMO.  He's only getting flak because he publicly admitted to it.  If you're deciding who to draft with the number one pick, wouldn't you trust your instincts about possible draft picks?  It's not always about just about the numbers